Brexit: The Naked Truth

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Lancasterclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:16 pm

Not you!

Elwa!

And yes, I'm still struggling with ******* quote function!
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nil_desperandum
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby nil_desperandum » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:17 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Maybe the time that the PM realises that she cannot do anything more to save herself from going down in history as the Prime Minister who let down 17. 4 million people will be the time she concedes to a General Election
While the PM could not have done anything more to get her deal through, and will be remembered for that, history I think will see her as incompetent

ELizabeth? you keep banging on about a General Election. What do you actually expect it to achieve, and what do you think each party will stand on, (with regards to brexit)?
The only real certainty is that a Gen Election would divide the Tories right down the middle. It's divided them for 40 years, and that's not about to change.
The only parties you could depend upon in a GE would be SNP, Libs and Greens, since they have been consistent all along, and most likely the Independent group would have really clear policies.
Just about the only certainty if you have a Gen Election is that it will hold up the process, and it will throw up a whole series of unusual results.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:20 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Personally I'm hoping for a General Election. This will give all voters, remain or leave, the opportunity to show their MP how they feel about what's gone on in Parliament. The man in the street's idea of what representation means has taken a big knock and now is the time to let their MP know.
By man in the street I don't mean all the so called experts on here.

In some ways I agree, but after what’s gone on, they’d be no guarantee of whoever we voted for actually getting in, it’s worrying with the law apparently set in stone becoming moveable, recent events for me have observed fundamental flaws within our democracy & set a sinister precedent. The cornerstone of what we believe in & how it should be implemented is under increasing threat in my view.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Imploding Turtle » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:21 pm

A GE does **** all to resolve this mess. The only way out, democratically and politically, is a "are you sure about his, you dumb *****" referendum
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:22 pm

For the many agitators on the leave side there are as many if not more on the remain side.
The extremists in this Brexit 'war' up to now have been remainers.
I think the leave voters have been dignified .

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Greenmile » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:23 pm

Elizabeth wrote:For the many agitators on the leave side there are as many if not more on the remain side.
The extremists in this Brexit 'war' up to now have been remainers.
I think the leave voters have been dignified .


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:24 pm

Elizabeth wrote:For the many agitators on the leave side there are as many if not more on the remain side.
The extremists in this Brexit 'war' up to now have been remainers.
I think the leave voters have been dignified .

It’s trying, trust me.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:25 pm

For the many agitators on the leave side there are as many if not more on the remain side.
The extremists in this Brexit 'war' up to now have been remainers.
I think the leave voters have been dignified .


Really important that you take a look at Westminister at the moment.

There are two groups there. One, yes, I would agree are dignified.

The other ones? Not in the slightest. Exactly what I feared in 2016 is right there.

If you are with the dignified lot, then fair play

But if you are with the other lot, then you can **** right off.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CombatClaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:26 pm

GE isn't going to help the public feel any more in control.

Listened to a conservative remainer on the radio asking how he was meant to both in a GE. Refused to vote for a leave party but would never back Labour.
It would leave millions feeling politically impotent.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:27 pm

Banging on about a General Election, what a couple of posts?
Clearly you are a highly sensitive and reactive being so I will read the rest of your post and get back to you in due course

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby FactualFrank » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:27 pm

BREAKING: Theresa May to change name to Theresa Won't.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CombatClaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:29 pm

Elizabeth wrote:For the many agitators on the leave side there are as many if not more on the remain side.
The extremists in this Brexit 'war' up to now have been remainers.
I think the leave voters have been dignified .


:lol:
Are you Ringo
Are you Ringo
Are you Ringo in a wig

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:29 pm

Come on Greenmile, don't go dumb on me with emicons or whatever they're called.
Speak

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Spiral » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:31 pm

Rightly or wrongly, a GE is happening. Today's charade was highly elaborate theatre designed to frame the opposition as saboteurs. It was never going to pass. The ERG knows this, the govt knows this. It's the attack angle they want, they just needed it putting on record.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Some person posts, says nothing, gets likes from remainers.
That should be enough to win my argument but I will get back

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:34 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Some person posts, says nothing, gets likes from remainers.
That should be enough to win my argument but I will get back


Oh come on Wrongo, you know it’s because what you wrote was the height of irony, especially coming from you!

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Greenmile
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Greenmile » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:36 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Come on Greenmile, don't go dumb on me with emicons or whatever they're called.
Speak


Ok.

“Leave voters dignified”

Hahahahahahahahah...(breathe)...hahahahahahahaha. No really, do go on.

Edit - here's a bit more for you. It would be fairly easy for me to dig out loads of examples from leave voters and campaigners being anything but dignified. Thing is, the same could be done for remainers (the OP of this thread from way back when for a start), and it gets us nowhere.

However, claiming leave voters are dignified and remainers are extremist is nothing short of laughable from where I'm sat, hence the little smiley laughing guys.

I'm still giving you the benefit of the doubt on the Ringo thing, btw - you do seem to hold very similar views but I'm not sure Ringo could keep up this level of subterfuge for so long to be honest.
Last edited by Greenmile on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby PutTheWheelieBinsOut » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:41 pm

Lets go for a general election please, so the new party "Change UK" (Chuka, Soubry, Allen etc) can have to shortest life span of any political party. Funny how the party calling themselves CHANGE don't seem to want a general election.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:41 pm

Martin with a little 'm'

I will take you seriously if you believe what I'm going to post now.
I know the poster you are referring to and I am not that poster.
I like to give due consideration to all posters whether I agree or disagree with them if they are decent. I don't mind the odd jibe as I like to think I have some sense of humour.

This of course excludes serial pests such as the poster going under the name IT and one or two other pests

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby ClaretAndJew » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:43 pm

How's Brexit day going for you all? Good aye?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:47 pm

Ah Lancaster, the poster who pretends he is playing out with the kids or is at football or some other hobby to kid people he has a life.
Yet is usually the first to break any news or respond to posts that don't support his agenda (mainly if it appears to favour Brexit which he pretends he is for
Last edited by Elizabeth on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Hipper » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:47 pm

I'm a Remainer. However I accept that we should leave. And the reasons most people that I know voted to leave are 'control of immigration' and 'sovereignty'.

Remaining in a Customs Union means free movement of EU people. That can't be acceptable to most Leave voters.

Interestingly, the figures given out a little while ago show EU immigration to the UK had decreased considerably but overall immigration was more or less the same as it was made up by non-EU people:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -six-years

The driving force is the way we employ people these days. Lack of training in this country and relatively low wages make it attractive for those trained in other countries with a weaker economy. It gives us cheaper services but at what cost to the British citizens left economically behind?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Rick_Muller » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:48 pm

Just listened to big Nige...

All I’ll say is that Hitler was a good orator, he is not

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Spiral » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:50 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Ah Lancaster, the poster who pretends he is playing out with the kids or is at football or some other hobby to kid people he has a life.
Yet is usually the first to break any news or respond to posts that don't support his agenda (mainly if it appears to favour Brexit which he pretends he is for


Elizabeth, may I ask why you voted to remain?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby bfcjg » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:51 pm

I wonder what Cameron is thinking ? His idea was to unite the Tories behind a referendum he assumed would vote to remain and he would be the man who united the tories and nullified opposition to Europe for a generation. What a knob.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:53 pm

Hipper wrote:I'm a Remainer. However I accept that we should leave. And the reasons most people that I know voted to leave are 'control of immigration' and 'sovereignty'.

Remaining in a Customs Union means free movement of EU people. That can't be acceptable to most Leave voters.

Interestingly, the figures given out a little while ago show EU immigration to the UK had decreased considerably but overall immigration was more or less the same as it was made up by non-EU people:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -six-years

The driving force is the way we employ people these days. Lack of training in this country and relatively low wages make it attractive for those trained in other countries with a weaker economy. It gives us cheaper services but at what cost to the British citizens left economically behind?

Good post, I honestly think some don’t give a s**t about our own British citizens whilst cheap EU labour is readily available, it certainly appears that way.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:55 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Martin with a little 'm'

I will take you seriously if you believe what I'm going to post now.
I know the poster you are referring to and I am not that poster.
I like to give due consideration to all posters whether I agree or disagree with them if they are decent. I don't mind the odd jibe as I like to think I have some sense of humour.

This of course excludes serial pests such as the poster going under the name IT and one or two other pests



:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Lancasterclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:00 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Ah Lancaster, the poster who pretends he is playing out with the kids or is at football or some other hobby to kid people he has a life.
Yet is usually the first to break any news or respond to posts that don't support his agenda (mainly if it appears to favour Brexit which he pretends he is for


Trust me, no one pretends they have kids!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:00 pm

OK Greenmile. More respect for that, shame you didn't put it that way in the first place. But at least you brought out a few idiots. Maybe they could post properly and make this a more adult debate. I go on.
Here's where I'm coming from.
I post obviously as someone who respects that leave won the referendum and this should have resulted in the UK leaving the EU today.
Its been obvious to everybody, leave and remain voters alike, that there has been a concerted attempt to spoil this by organised remainer groups calling for things like People's Vote and getting down to the HOC at the crack of dawn to fly the EU flags for television coverage around Europe. I could go into other activities but don't really want to unless provoked.
I wait for you to come back to me before continuing
Last edited by Elizabeth on Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Spijed » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:05 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Good post, I honestly think some don’t give a s**t about our own British citizens whilst cheap EU labour is readily available, it certainly appears that way.


And what about immigration from outside the EU?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:09 pm

Spijed wrote:And what about immigration from outside the EU?

The same applies, i robustly believe that any sort of immigration which impacts negatively upon the British citizens in terms of standards of living needs looking at & controlling.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Mala591 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:16 pm

Dear Mr Macron

Please refuse to agree to a further Brexit delay and set my people free to get on with the rest of their lives.

Thank you in anticipation of a positive response.

Kind regards

England
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby TheFamilyCat » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:20 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Good post, I honestly think some don’t give a s**t about our own British citizens whilst cheap EU labour is readily available, it certainly appears that way.


Just how cheap is this “cheap EU labour”? Maybe you should report all the businesses who are employing them for less than NMW.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Spijed » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:24 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:The same applies, i robustly believe that any sort of immigration which impacts negatively upon the British citizens in terms of standards of living needs looking at & controlling.


But people said we should leave the EU so we can have full control of our immigration policy.

Considering we DO have full control of immigration of people from outside the EU why are things going to be different in future if we leave the EU?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:28 pm

Spijed wrote:But people said we should leave the EU so we can have full control of our immigration policy.

Considering we DO have full control of immigration of people from outside the EU why are things going to be different in future if we leave the EU?

Think it's a rhetorical question, but I'll play on, leave the single market to gain full control.

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nil_desperandum
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby nil_desperandum » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:34 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Just how cheap is this “cheap EU labour”? Maybe you should report all the businesses who are employing them for less than NMW.

"
"Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found.
And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero.


Predicted response: "Yeh.. but... but... but....."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:35 pm

Right nil, finally read your long post about a General Election.
Firstly let me say that as a life long Labour voters I will never vote for that party again. And believe me when I say life long I mean life long, going back generations.
My reason is that I will never forgive the activists within the party for beating Corbyn over the head with their 2nd referendum bullshit. Can't say that so ignore.
I cannot forgive my local MP for putting her personal and party preferences over the 66% of her constituency who voted leave. This was a betrayal and please spare me the old arguments about what representation means.
People need to remember that millions of remain voters respected the result of the referendum and we're just as fed up as leave voters .
Anyway , I think that's Labour done for at the next election.
Other parties. Millions of voters will be looking for change but it is my belief that the Conservatives will benefit the most as while the PM has been less than useful , she has shown a determination to give the people what they voted for in the referendum.
To be honest can't be bothered to look back at the full contents of your post, please accept my apologies and I invite you to continue if you so wish.
Long live the revolution ☺️ ( for the purpose of greenmile and remainer friends)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby TheFamilyCat » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:41 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:"

Predicted response: "Yeh.. but... but... but....."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html


Interesting stat. I was looking forward to Jakub’s response but I don’t think i’ll be getting one now.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby claret2018 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:44 pm

No one in parliament actually has any appetite for Brexit, they know more than most how difficult (if not impossible) to actually implement, even with 10 years to plan it.

It won’t happen. It’s too complicated. As we’re seeing now, and have been since the referendum result.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:49 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Interesting stat. I was looking forward to Jakub’s response but I don’t think i’ll be getting one now.

Just busy if I'm allowed to be, don't worry a counter will be coming in due course. Sometimes its wiser to think & articulate a constructive reply.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby nil_desperandum » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:51 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Right nil, finally read your long post about a General Election.
Firstly let me say that as a life long Labour voters I will never vote for that party again. And believe me when I say life long I mean life long, going back generations.
My reason is that I will never forgive the activists within the party for beating Corbyn over the head with their 2nd referendum bullshit. Can't say that so ignore.
I cannot forgive my local MP for putting her personal and party preferences over the 66% of her constituency who voted leave. This was a betrayal and please spare me the old arguments about what representation means.
People need to remember that millions of remain voters respected the result of the referendum and we're just as fed up as leave voters .
Anyway , I think that's Labour done for at the next election.
Other parties. Millions of voters will be looking for change but it is my belief that the Conservatives will benefit the most as while the PM has been less than useful , she has shown a determination to give the people what they voted for in the referendum.
To be honest can't be bothered to look back at the full contents of your post, please accept my apologies and I invite you to continue if you so wish.
Long live the revolution ☺️ ( for the purpose of greenmile and remainer friends)

Ok. Thanks for the lengthy reply, but it doesn't really address my point. In case you didn't get it, I'll phrase it in practical terms:
Let's suppose there were to be a Gen Election in June. How could Ken Clarke, Amber Rudd, Philip Hammond, David Gauke, Justine Greening, and numerous others canvas on the same "ticket" / platform as Dominic Raab, IDS, Rees-Mogg, Patel, Bravemann etc.?
That's my point. There's apparently nothing that the Tories can coalesce on, (they can only split), and that's why they won't vote for a Gen Election

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby bobinho » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:51 pm

Cooper has been a disgrace. She has completely disregarded her constituents wishes and tried her best to scupper brexit at every opportunity and for that she should be held to account.

Hopefully, she will be sent packing come the GE.

Nice to read that there are some half reasonable remainers out there who accept the result and now expect democracy to take its course, as opposed to the usual skriking whinge bags who manage to shout the loudest and demand another go at it, and presumably others afterwards until they get their mard arse childish way.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:52 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Right nil, finally read your long post about a General Election.
Firstly let me say that as a life long Labour voters I will never vote for that party again. And believe me when I say life long I mean life long, going back generations.
My reason is that I will never forgive the activists within the party for beating Corbyn over the head with their 2nd referendum bullshit. Can't say that so ignore.
I cannot forgive my local MP for putting her personal and party preferences over the 66% of her constituency who voted leave. This was a betrayal and please spare me the old arguments about what representation means.
People need to remember that millions of remain voters respected the result of the referendum and we're just as fed up as leave voters .
Anyway , I think that's Labour done for at the next election.
Other parties. Millions of voters will be looking for change but it is my belief that the Conservatives will benefit the most as while the PM has been less than useful , she has shown a determination to give the people what they voted for in the referendum.
To be honest can't be bothered to look back at the full contents of your post, please accept my apologies and I invite you to continue if you so wish.
Long live the revolution ☺️ ( for the purpose of greenmile and remainer friends)



There are 20 people who work around me at work. We had a quick straw pole today and only two will vote for a mainstream party in the next election.
Tories, Labour and Lib Dem’s will all be shunned.

Brexit Party needs to get its act together.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby nil_desperandum » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:58 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:There are 20 people who work around me at work. We had a quick straw pole today and only two will vote for a mainstream party in the next election.
Tories, Labour and Lib Dem’s will all be shunned.

Brexit Party needs to get its act together.

Don't think it would be quite as extreme as that, but this is exactly why I've been trying to explain to "Elizabeth" that the Tories won't vote for a Gen Election, which would probably solve nothing.

# 45
Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:59 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:There are 20 people who work around me at work. We had a quick straw pole today and only two will vote for a mainstream party in the next election.
Tories, Labour and Lib Dem’s will all be shunned.

Brexit Party needs to get its act together.


Sounds like an exciting day at work!
This user liked this post: longsidepies

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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:00 pm

bobinho wrote:Cooper has been a disgrace. She has completely disregarded her constituents wishes and tried her best to scupper brexit at every opportunity and for that she should be held to account.

Hopefully, she will be sent packing come the GE.

Nice to read that there are some half reasonable remainers out there who accept the result and now expect democracy to take its course, as opposed to the usual skriking whinge bags who manage to shout the loudest and demand another go at it, and presumably others afterwards until they get their mard arse childish way.


She was elected on a manifesto that promised a Brexit with a customs union. Not voting for May’s deal has been entirely consistent with that.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:04 pm

Ooh right. The Conservative party are split. Then it's lucky for some party. But who? Don't think Labour.

OK to address your point. You may be right and the PM, whoever it is, won't call a General Election.
Then again you may be wrong and with Labour MPs so clearly showing themselves for what they are today I hope its not too big a shock for you if the Tories decide now is the time when it's fresh in voters minds to call a General Election
I'm waiting for the new Conservative leader to be announced before arguing with you further.But I do get your point
Last edited by Elizabeth on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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summitclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby summitclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:07 pm

No its not. The government accepted the Snell amendment so a CU would have been just as likely if she had voted yes. The WA is needed for all options except revoke

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Lowbankclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:07 pm

Ok so I posted a long list of jobs that have been lost to other parts of the EU and was told it’s false news.

So let’s just deal with the Jag Landrover Deal to Slovakia.

We pay a net plus 9 billion into the EU each year.

Slovakia receives a plus 1 billion contribution from the EU.

The Slovakian gov paid J/LR €125 to build the factory there.

The way I see it is we the British public paid them to take our jobs, sanctioned by the EU.

The Slovakia gov could not have afforded the payment if they didn’t get Eu aid which we are one of the biggest contributors.

Perhaps we could have paid €500 million less to the EU and paid it to J/ LR to keep it in the UK.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:09 pm

summitclaret wrote:No its not. The government accepted the Snell amendment so a CU would have been just as likely if she had voted yes. The WA is needed for all options except revoke


What, once May had resigned and a Brexit nutter had taken over? Yeah right!


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