Brexit: The Naked Truth

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:10 pm

Cancel those "No Deal" plans people.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:10 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Fighting the EU elections, get in


get your application in to fight them lad!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:11 pm

Not sure this is going to work.

Nice try, but Corbyn is never going to agree.
Not sure the EU will agree to an extension as they have given 26 of our seats to other countries.

They need to print ballot papers and get things arranged for the election.

I expect they will be furious.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:12 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:get your application in to fight them lad!



She is avoiding new elections, how the hell she will do that , I am not sure.
The EU have to prepare for elections.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:14 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cancel those "No Deal" plans people.


We always knew parliament would not let that happen, the EU don’t want it either.

Let’s see if anyone resigns.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:16 pm

Do we honestly think May and Corbyn can agree on something??

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby claret_in_exile » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:18 pm

This is blamestorming. She knows Corbyn won't agree to anything - he can't even agree to anything within his own party.

This is "if there's a hard Brexit, it's your fault" tactic. My admiration for her resolve is going to wane if she plays silly beggars for political points rather than doing what's right for the country. It's not as if she's running for re-election.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:20 pm

To be honest, if she was ever going to go for "No Deal", it would be now.

That she hasn't suggests that she never will, but how far will she go to avoid one is the issue.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:20 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Do we honestly think May and Corbyn can agree on something??


If she agrees to meet in half way on the Labour version of Brexit she might be into something. I think you can kiss your hard Brexit goodbye though. She’s realised nearly two years too late that she can’t deliver Brexit without Labour.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:23 pm

Another blow to the no deal brigade.

Will be get more promises of rioting? Who knows.

Still, she’s doing her best to shift the blame to Labour.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:27 pm

Unless something ridiculous happens, this should finish "No Deal".

With over 400 MPs against it, anything stopping it gets through.

Course, is this because of the amendment tomorrow?

Is it a cynical attempt to kill it off?

But that is unlikely cos her deal is dead.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:28 pm

I’m more concerned about Mark Francois’s massive paper mache head blowing up in his next interview about May’s statement.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:28 pm

martin_p wrote:If she agrees to meet in half way on the Labour version of Brexit she might be into something. I think you can kiss your hard Brexit goodbye though. She’s realised nearly two years too late that she can’t deliver Brexit without Labour.


Corbyn wants a GE, he wants to cause as much chaos as possible so he claim he will unify the UK.

I will be very surprised if they reach an agreement.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:30 pm

It shouldn't be that hard to reach an agreement, the problem will be getting the PM after May to stick to it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby claret_in_exile » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:33 pm

The problem is that Corbyn is convinced that's going to be him.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Corbyn wants a GE, he wants to cause as much chaos as possible so he claim he will unify the UK.

I will be very surprised if they reach an agreement.


Whether they agree something or not there’s a promise that the government will put a series of options to parliament and abide by the result, so unless those options are all essentially different version of the current deal something will be agreed.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:36 pm

If she is being honest, then this is good.

If she's being what she's been on every single occasion since she became PM, then this is terrible.

The ONLY thing that is clear is that she doesn't want "No Deal", but just how far will she go to stomach a "Deal"?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:37 pm

Wonder if we’ll get any resignations from the cabinet ministers set on no deal?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Spiral » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:38 pm

Labour basically approves of the WA (backstop, divorce bill, citizens rights). If May renegotiates the political declaration to include a customs union (and/or other BINO options) with the caveat of approval by way of confirmatory referendum as pressed by Labour (which is the direction I think Labour will go), it will sail through the commons. May can claim to have delivered brexit - at least technically - and the Tories will have a few years to manage the 'betrayal' narrative before the next GE. Corbyn would be under too much pressure from within his party to pass up on a chance for a 2nd referendum and if the option comes up, he'll find something to agree on.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby summitclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:44 pm

martin_p wrote:Wonder if we’ll get any resignations from the cabinet ministers set on no deal?


The answer to that will tell us if May is serious about compromise. If they don't resign then she is still trying to get her deal through by putting it up against a CU.

Thankfully think you can forget a second referendum

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:45 pm

Oh, this is a strategy to get a Brexit no doubt, but it still might not work, so don't write off the 2nd ref yet.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Murger » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:47 pm

Pandering to the 48% from day 1 has caused this.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby AndyClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:50 pm

There's one major flaw in this plan, she has offered to talk to Corbyn about the future relationship, she said she will step down before the second phase, i.e she can't agree to anything that a future leader could just change.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Mala591 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:53 pm

May will offer Labour customs union in the political declaration but NO WAY will she agree to a confirmatory referendum.

Impasse will return. No deal exit will be the most likely outcome and May will be able to blame the Labour party.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:02 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:What though?

They can't give in now. Its would destroy the EU project.

The Brexiteers know this. They want No Deal.

"No Deal" hits the SE the least, and the NW and NE the hardest.

We have to avoid it at all costs.


That must be the reason why 61% of Sunderland voted leave & Middlesbrough 65.5% & Darlington & Hartlepool were all leave, dropping into the east of England further down Boston (Lincolnshire) were over 75%, people overwhelmingly in the north east didn’t vote leave to be worse off regardless of a deal or no deal & I reckon if you still asked them that today, they’d still favour a no deal, anything to bl**dy leave i should imagine would be the correct answer, at least do research when mentioning catchment areas especially taking into consideration the locations from where the leave votes originated, leafy affluent areas of London you’d have a valid point which were predominantly remain vote areas.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Bacchus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:02 pm

I still dont understand why a confirmatory referendum is considered to be such an affront to democracy. This is a massive turning point for the country. Asking the people whether they are sure about a course of action before reaching the point of no return is simply common sense.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby BleedingClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:07 pm

martin_p wrote:If we ever want a trade deal with the EU we’ll have to pay the divorce bill, whether we leave with a deal or not.

I know it makes me sound thick but mate it's a fact those 27 countries want to sell us stuff and always will.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:12 pm

Murger wrote:Pandering to the 48% from day 1 has caused this.


It hasn't, but to be perfectly honest I'm sick of explaining reality to people on here. You either get it, or you don't, and nothing I will say will make any difference to that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:13 pm

Bacchus wrote:I still dont understand why a confirmatory referendum is considered to be such an affront to democracy. This is a massive turning point for the country. Asking the people whether they are sure about a course of action before reaching the point of no return is simply common sense.


You would think so wouldn’t you.

But but but, something about Islington bubble dwellers and stuff like that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:13 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:That must be the reason why 61% of Sunderland voted leave & Middlesbrough 65.5% & Darlington & Hartlepool were all leave, dropping into the east of England further down Boston (Lincolnshire) were over 75%, people overwhelmingly in the north east didn’t vote leave to be worse off regardless of a deal or no deal & I reckon if you still asked them that today, they’d still favour a no deal, anything to bl**dy leave i should imagine would be the correct answer, at least do research when mentioning catchment areas especially taking into consideration the locations from where the leave votes originated, leafy affluent areas of London you’d have a valid point which were predominantly remain vote areas.


There is, because they think it can't get any worse. It can.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby JohnMcGreal » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:15 pm

The most interesting sentence in May's statement:

Crucially, the government stands ready to abide by the decision of the house.

Possibly a hint that the government is ready to act on whatever the Commons votes for in tomorrow's indicative votes.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby summitclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:19 pm

Bacchus wrote:I still dont understand why a confirmatory referendum is considered to be such an affront to democracy. This is a massive turning point for the country. Asking the people whether they are sure about a course of action before reaching the point of no return is simply common sense.


Because it has been the aim of most mps since 23 June 2016 to overturn the referendum result.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:There is, because they think it can't get any worse. It can.

Maybe you should explain this to them & state your reasons because overwhelming I don’t think they’d agree, the livelihoods have been threatened & some cases decimimated to a large degree. When you’ve experienced that as a working class person in Lincolnshire you may feel differently, things can only get better once we leave deal or no deal for them.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:23 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:The most interesting sentence in May's statement:

Crucially, the government stands ready to abide by the decision of the house.

Possibly a hint that the government is ready to act on whatever the Commons votes for in tomorrow's indicative votes.


I think the indicative votes have moved to Monday!!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:26 pm

To have a 2nd ref, we will have to contest the EU elections.
I am not against one but it’s a fact of EU law.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:27 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:You would think so wouldn’t you.

But but but, something about Islington bubble dwellers and stuff like that.


It's all because Hugh Grant wants a cheap plumber.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby BleedingClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:29 pm

A 2nd Referendum is NOT acceptable, this Parliament has shown that it will not respect a Referendum Result it does not like.

A General Election is acceptable, the Parliament would mirror the result this time, as Politicians will not get away with the same level of lies any more.

A Revocation is NOT acceptable, you enact the results of democracy and then challenge it with further democracy.

A Soft Brexit that is Brexit in name only is NOT acceptable.

A Long Extension is NOT acceptable

European Elections will be won Massively by Farage

If they leave a General Election until after that with a Farage party fully mobilised then Farage will make a dent in that too, obviously that won't materialise as effective opposition in Parliament within the FPTP system, but maybe this highlights that that is due for a further challenge too.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby SmudgetheClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Cancel those "No Deal" plans people.


Also cancel any plans to stop the rise of nationalism...you could almost feel a wave of anger swoop across the country as what can only be described as a traitor of the highest order laid out her betrayal..

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby BleedingClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:35 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I think the indicative votes have moved to Monday!!


Let them hold them in the middle of a field in Sunderland, they need to be removed from their Ivory Towers.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Bacchus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:35 pm

summitclaret wrote:Because it has been the aim of most mps since 23 June 2016 to overturn the referendum result.


But that would only happen if people actually voted for that themselves. It takes the decision away from the MPs that you're so fed up with. That's what you're really scared of though, isn't it?

You're trying to claim that asking the people for their view is anti-democratic whereas pushing on without asking them because the outcome might not be what you want it to be is perfectly legitimate. It's not the most logical position to take, is it?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Bacchus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:37 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:To have a 2nd ref, we will have to contest the EU elections.
I am not against one but it’s a fact of EU law.


Why is that such an issue? We'd have democratically elected representatives until such a point when we decide whether or not we need them. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby SmudgetheClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:46 pm

Hey just had a thought the one thing the establishment want less than Brexit is Mr Corbyn as PM I think a change of tactics could be on here ..."Oh Jeremy Corbyn Oh..)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby BleedingClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:47 pm

If Not Now…
Tracy Chapman

If not now then when
If not today then
Why make your promises
A love declared for days to come
Is as good as none

You can wait 'til morning comes
You can wait for the new day
You can wait and lose this heart
You can wait and soon be sorry

Now love's the only thing that's free
We must take it where it's found
Pretty soon it may be costly
If not now what then

We all must live our lives
Always feeling
Always thinking
The moment has arrived

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Devils_Advocate
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Devils_Advocate » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:47 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Maybe you should explain this to them & state your reasons because overwhelming I don’t think they’d agree, the livelihoods have been threatened & some cases decimimated to a large degree. When you’ve experienced that as a working class person in Lincolnshire you may feel differently, things can only get better once we leave deal or no deal for them.

Maybe if you explained to them that they just need to be more positive and adaptable and with the right attitude the British working class folk are able to overcome any adversity and prosper. I mean this is your mantra isnt it?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:49 pm

JRM throwing his toys out of the pram with some particularly confusing logic.

This approach to government is an unsuccessful one and it also lacks democratic legitimacy. People did not vote for a Corbyn-May coalition government – they voted for a Conservative government, which became a confidence and supply with the DUP.

This is a deeply unsatisfactory approach. It’s not in the interests of the country, it fails to deliver on the referendum result and history doesn’t bode well for it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Devils_Advocate » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:51 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:If Not Now…
Tracy Chapman

If not now then when
If not today then
Why make your promises
A love declared for days to come
Is as good as none

You can wait 'til morning comes
You can wait for the new day
You can wait and lose this heart
You can wait and soon be sorry

Now love's the only thing that's free
We must take it where it's found
Pretty soon it may be costly
If not now what then

We all must live our lives
Always feeling
Always thinking
The moment has arrived

Image

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby BleedingClaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:56 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Image


Thank you

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Jakubclaret » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:58 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Maybe if you explained to them that they just need to be more positive and adaptable and with the right attitude the British working class folk are able to overcome any adversity and prosper. I mean this is your mantra isnt it?

Unfortunately that doesn't translate into a hard days work rewarded with a honest pay packet in reflection hence the problem, greed will always choose the cheapest option.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:01 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:I know it makes me sound thick but mate it's a fact those 27 countries want to sell us stuff and always will.


The argument that the EU will crumble and give in to our demands is surely a bit old hat now!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:03 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:If Not Now…
Tracy Chapman

If not now then when
If not today then
Why make your promises
A love declared for days to come
Is as good as none

You can wait 'til morning comes
You can wait for the new day
You can wait and lose this heart
You can wait and soon be sorry

Now love's the only thing that's free
We must take it where it's found
Pretty soon it may be costly
If not now what then

We all must live our lives
Always feeling
Always thinking
The moment has arrived


You been stood up or something?
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