Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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Greenmile
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:13 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:That's not what I'm saying, it's what you are saying. I dont think they are bastards, you do. The only scenario where we get hurt more than Germany is if they choose to cut their noses off. It won't happen, you're pinning your beliefs on a ridiculous assumption, not facts.
You mean “facts” like “Of Germanys export trade 15-18% is with the UK” (aka lies)?

The ridiculous assumption was all yours by the way. Remember when you said “what happens to that 15-18% if the EU stops trading with the UK.”

They do not need us more than we need them, in the same way that 6.5 is not a bigger number than 40. I know you don’t like listening to facts and statistics, but that’s how it is.

You know Germany can’t strike any trade deals with us on their own, don’t you?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:15 am

Tall Paul wrote:Literally one post earlier, you said this:


Looks like you're taking notice of a politician pulling facts and figures there.

You couldn't make it up, the hypocrisy :roll:
My only reason for quoting her is she, as an outsider, has little axe to grind re Brexit, whereas every British politician puts their own spin on it.
Maybe she is lying, but then what would her reasoning be. The same cant be said about those in the HOC, because its patently obvious that they cant be trusted.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:18 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:I said I agreed with them that the EU is undemocratic, I didn't say I thought it was undemocratic because Boris Johnson or any other politician said so. I made my own mind up about that, like a big boy.
Lord Beamish asked whether I believed in the honesty of those politicians fighting for Brexit, and I don't, just as I dont believe those fighting for Remain. Yet somehow you twisted it to look as if I did. Bizarre.
Try reading what I wrote again.

You essentially said you believe it when people tell you things you already believe but you won’t believe anything else politicians or experts say, and you won’t listen to facts and statistics. If you can’t see how that mindset might lead you away from the truth, then I give up - there’s no helping you.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:23 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:My only reason for quoting her is she, as an outsider, has little axe to grind re Brexit, whereas every British politician puts their own spin on it.
Maybe she is lying, but then what would her reasoning be. The same cant be said about those in the HOC, because its patently obvious that they cant be trusted.
You think a far right, Putin-supporting party is impartial when it comes to Brexit? Ok then.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:29 am

Greenmile wrote:You mean “facts” like “Of Germanys export trade 15-18% is with the UK” (aka lies)?

The ridiculous assumption was all yours by the way. Remember when you said “what happens to that 15-18% if the EU stops trading with the UK.”

They do not need us more than we need them, in the same way that 6.5 is not a bigger number than 40. I know you don’t like listening to facts and statistics, but that’s how it is.

You know Germany can’t strike any trade deals with us on their own, don’t you?
I am aware that they cant make a deal on their own.
I also know that Germany's economy has slowed down almost to a stop.
I also know, that just as we cant afford to lose 40% of our market, neither can they afford to lose 15% of theirs.
I also know that when we leave it will be the Germans who will have to foot the majority of the bill, to bolster the flagging economies in the rest of the EU.
I dont know, but I would imagine that the German people would not be very happy when all this happens.

If the German people get ****** off they might even start asking for Grexit. ;)





Have you ever sat down and considered all these threats, from home and abroad, over what was supposed to be a simple trading block.
Anybody who is still in denial, that the EU has ambitions way beyond a mere trading block must be living in the dark.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:40 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:I am aware that they cant make a deal on their own.
I also know that Germany's economy has slowed down almost to a stop.
I also know, that just as we cant afford to lose 40% of our market, neither can they afford to lose 15% of theirs.
I also know that when we leave it will be the Germans who will have to foot the majority of the bill, to bolster the flagging economies in the rest of the EU.
I dont know, but I would imagine that the German people would not be very happy when all this happens.

If the German people get ****** off they might even start asking for Grexit. ;)





Have you ever sat down and considered all these threats, from home and abroad, over what was supposed to be a simple trading block.
Anybody who is still in denial, that the EU has ambitions way beyond a mere trading block must be living in the dark.
You’ve been shown that this is a lie, but you still believe it don’t you? That’s the stupid, illogical mindset I’ve been talking about. Nothing to do with whether you trust Boris et al or not.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:14 am

aggi wrote:Steve Barclay was fairly prominent in the leave campaign.
was he ? never so him in any debates.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:19 am

Newport by election result. Lab hold but 12.7% drop in vote. Tories retain second place with 8 % drop. Ukip in third at up 8%.

No surprises really. Area was 56/44 for leave in 2016.

http://news.sky.com/story/labour-holds- ... n-11684559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:45 am

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2019-04- ... next-week/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Irish customs officers deployed in preparation for a "No Deal" at Dublin and Rosslare

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:49 am

summitclaret wrote:Newport by election result. Lab hold but 12.7% drop in vote. Tories retain second place with 8 % drop. Ukip in third at up 8%.

No surprises really. Area was 56/44 for leave in 2016.

http://news.sky.com/story/labour-holds- ... n-11684559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Quite important

Shows that support or non-support of Brexit won't break the traditional two party duopoly.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:06 am

Think that would have been different if the Brexit party hac been standing. Ditto the tiggers.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:08 am

I think Colburn has his figures mixed up. Isnt it approx 17% of German automobiles are sold to the UK, whilst overall exports from Germany to the UK are approx 7% of their overall exports?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:11 am

summitclaret wrote:Think that would have been different if the Brexit party hac been standing. Ditto the tiggers.
Did UKIP not have a candidate standing?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:23 am

Turnout v low though, which is a surprise.

Does back up the view that everyone is a bit sick of politics now

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:27 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Did UKIP not have a candidate standing?
Yes but little credibility now due to association with tommy boy. They will be gone soon when Farage's new party is up and running and takes about 40% of the euro election votes

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:35 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Ah see, so not "total severance" then as you posted in the initial post that I referred to.
That clears it up :roll:
Complete or total, carry on splitting hairs, shows just how desperate your argument has become if you are reduced to that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:05 am

Jakubclaret wrote:Complete or total, carry on splitting hairs, shows just how desperate your argument has become if you are reduced to that.
Yeah, come on nil. He’s allowed to completely contradict himself without without you splitting hairs over it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:14 am

summitclaret wrote:Yes but little credibility now due to association with tommy boy. They will be gone soon when Farage's new party is up and running and takes about 40% of the euro election votes
Will he not always have an association with Tommeh? A Leopard cannot change its spots and all that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Goobs » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:22 am

Another extension of A50 on it's way. I'm assuming that the plan is / always has been to run this for as long as possible until the majority on the leave side just give up caring and they can then revoke it and remain.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Pstotto » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:35 am

The longest pantomime in history. The BBC News are another institution aiming to crush the leave vote moral. Last night they had Merkel and Varadkar together pretending to be Father Christmas and saying 'we' could have a soft border in Ireland, him saying he wants to protect the Good Friday Agreement and the EU (no mention of the UK).

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:42 am

Goobs wrote:Another extension of A50 on it's way. I'm assuming that the plan is / always has been to run this for as long as possible until the majority on the leave side just give up caring and they can then revoke it and remain.
Or maybe getting the right Brexit is more important that getting the wrong one because a few old duffers want to leave before they go to the great big Brexit in the sky?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:52 am

Darthlaw wrote:I think Colburn has his figures mixed up. Isnt it approx 17% of German automobiles are sold to the UK, whilst overall exports from Germany to the UK are approx 7% of their overall exports?
I think this is correct, but in fairness to Colburn he got his figures from an extreme- right wing, Putin supporting German politician, in which she either accidentally confused car sales with GDP, or, (more likely), chose to conflate the two in order to strengthen her argument.
(7% is on the high side BTW, but not worth arguing over).

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:17 am

Greenmile wrote:You’ve been shown that this is a lie, but you still believe it don’t you? That’s the stupid, illogical mindset I’ve been talking about. Nothing to do with whether you trust Boris et al or not.
I"m sorry, I missed the part when I was shown this was lie. What isn't true about it. It was A german who said that 15-18% of their exports were with the UK. I believed it. Where have you got your proof that this wrong?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:I"m sorry, I missed the part when I was shown this was lie. What isn't true about it. It was A german who said that 15-18% of their exports were with the UK. I believed it. Where have you got your proof that this wrong?
You might want to, I don't know, try reading the thread perhaps?
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am

nil_desperandum wrote:I think this is correct, but in fairness to Colburn he got his figures from an extreme- right wing, Putin supporting German politician, in which she either accidentally confused car sales with GDP, or, (more likely), chose to conflate the two in order to strengthen her argument.
(7% is on the high side BTW, but not worth arguing over).
Cheers Nil_d, I answered the previous post before I read your response.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:29 am

For Clarity:

Germany has exports of $1.3T, of which $90.3b goes to the UK - ergo 6.95% of total German exports heads to the UK.

Of total German Exports, cars and car parts make up around 16.8% of their total exports.

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/deu/
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:34 am

Cheers Darth, I think we are all clear now!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:48 am

aggi wrote:Steve Barclay was fairly prominent in the leave campaign.
Steve Barclay wasn't suggesting either of the two options himself but stated in Parliament, that the ideas of either rolling over current UK MEPs so not them needing to stand for re election in the upcoming European Union Elections or putting un elected ones in place along with Political Parties current Parliamentary numbers had both been suggested to him and he rightly said that neither was an option, intimating that they were clearly undemocratic.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:51 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Or maybe getting the right Brexit is more important that getting the wrong one because a few old duffers want to leave before they go to the great big Brexit in the sky?
So the 17.4 Million few are all about to die then...
Have you done or can you provide credible polling on the Brexit subject showing the opinions of 16 to 19 year olds...

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:56 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Quite important

Shows that support or non-support of Brexit won't break the traditional two party duopoly.
No Deal job creation... Great!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:56 am

Jacob Rees Mogg on Twitter today:

“If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.“

As the responses point out, he’s suggesting Britain exercise power within the EU that he’s claimed we don’t have.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:00 am

BleedingClaret wrote:So the 17.4 Million few are all about to die then...
Have you done or can you provide credible polling on the Brexit subject showing the opinions of 16 to 19 year olds...
75% over 60 want to leave

75% under 20 want to remain.

Some would say (not me!) that the young are voting for the future, while the old are voting for the past.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:75% over 60 want to leave

75% under 20 want to remain.

Some would say (not me!) that the young are voting for the future, while the old are voting for the past.
And the older and wiser people themselves, actually say, they voted "Leave" for the futures of their children and grandchildren.

Lancaster Claret, you really do throw your wisdom around, like a man with no arms.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:14 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:75% over 60 want to leave

75% under 20 want to remain.

Some would say (not me!) that the young are voting for the future, while the old are voting for the past.
Some would say the Old have Experience of Life

Some would say the Young know Sweet Fanny Adams

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:20 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:And the older and wiser people themselves, actually say, they voted "Leave" for the futures of their children and grandchildren.

Lancaster Claret, you really do throw your wisdom around, like a man with no arms.
Thats your opinion Ringo. I respect yours, even if i don't agree with any of it.

The old are fantastic, but the one thing that they are not good at (in the main) is dealing with rapid change, and they remember stuff (hell, we all do!) with distinctly rose tinted glasses.

I voted so my kids could enjoy the benefits I have had, namely the chance to work freely in Europe with minimal hassle.

You voted so your kids and grandkids lose that.

Course, you justify it in whatever way you choose, but that is essentially what you are doing.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:21 am

BleedingClaret wrote:Some would say the Old have Experience of Life

Some would say the Young know Sweet Fanny Adams
If I was an old bloke who shouted at kids for doing what kids do, thats what I'd post.

But I'm not, so I don't.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lord Beamish » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:38 am

Our current set of Old People are a strange bunch. Barely any of the Great Generation who fought ad suffered great loss against the rise of Fascism still remain, due to the inevitable passage of time. What we're now left with is their children who, having being blessed with the peace, prosperity, and good fortune(NHS, Free University Education for All,Secure Jobs, Cheap Mortgages etc), now want to simultaneously deny the next generation of these whilst somehow claiming ownership for the hard work of the generation above them that actually earned all of this.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:47 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Thats your opinion Ringo. I respect yours, even if i don't agree with any of it.

The old are fantastic, but the one thing that they are not good at (in the main) is dealing with rapid change, and they remember stuff (hell, we all do!) with distinctly rose tinted glasses.

I voted so my kids could enjoy the benefits I have had, namely the chance to work freely in Europe with minimal hassle.

You voted so your kids and grandkids lose that.

Course, you justify it in whatever way you choose, but that is essentially what you are doing.
When you are in your 40s you've already had the benefits, trust me when your kids reach the age you are now they'll be benefits for only a handful of fortune people & the majority are likely to see misery, the future as the trajectory of lead balloon with the the current EU model.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:57 am

Jakubclaret wrote:When you are in your 40s you've already had the benefits, trust me when your kids reach the age you are now they'll be benefits for only a handful of fortune people & the majority are likely to see misery, the future as the trajectory of lead balloon with the the current EU model.
Then that will be their choice, crucially not mine or yours.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:01 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:When you are in your 40s you've already had the benefits, trust me when your kids reach the age you are now they'll be benefits for only a handful of fortune people & the majority are likely to see misery, the future as the trajectory of lead balloon with the the current EU model.
Chin up, Jakub. What’s happened to your positive mental attitude? I thought that’s all we need (that and fewer foreigners, of course).

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:75% over 60 want to leave

75% under 20 want to remain.

Some would say (not me!) that the young are voting for the future, while the old are voting for the past.
If you believe the young are better judges than their elders, put your children in charge of running the household bills etc for a month.

Please post their decision making on here.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:If you believe the young are better judges than their elders, put your children in charge of running the household bills etc for a month.

Please post their decision making on here.
Children aren’t allowed to vote. I run my household a sight better than my elderly parents run theirs.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:20 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:If you believe the young are better judges than their elders, put your children in charge of running the household bills etc for a month.

Please post their decision making on here.

I have tried to have a chat with my 17 year old who thinks we should remain.

She does not know why, she will not read any history or read any details on the EU but is adamant we will be better staying in.

I did post a video of Peter Zeihan’s yesterday, well worth a watch of the changing world order.

The young of today today have a troubled future, eligning with the EU will prove to be big mistakes by 2030.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feU7HT0 ... ture=share" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Dike Muff » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:23 pm

Greenmile wrote:Children aren’t allowed to vote. I run my household a sight better than my elderly parents run theirs.
My 69 year old Father was running my mother and his finances into the ground until I stepped in. His utter refusal to embrace technology and change meant that they were haemorrhageing literally hundreds of pounds every quarter with Utility Bills, Insurances etc. He still believed in the idea that, if you stayed loyal to a Company/Provider, you’d get a better deal. He was paying about £450 a year on White Goods insurance, FFS! He could’ve bought a new washer and dryer every year for that!
Age and ‘experience’ are not all they’re cracked up to be.
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RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:37 pm

Dike Muff wrote:My 69 year old Father was running my mother and his finances into the ground until I stepped in. His utter refusal to embrace technology and change meant that they were haemorrhageing literally hundreds of pounds every quarter with Utility Bills, Insurances etc. He still believed in the idea that, if you stayed loyal to a Company/Provider, you’d get a better deal. He was paying about £450 a year on White Goods insurance, FFS! He could’ve bought a new washer and dryer every year for that!
Age and ‘experience’ are not all they’re cracked up to be.
He sounds like deluded europhiles who cling on to the outdated idea that you can remain in the EU and stay loyal to it and negotiate a better deal. We've been haemorrhageing £9 billion net, a year, to be part of the federalist experiment. We could have joined the rest of the world that's set to grow, and not paid a penny for it.

In the experience of 17,400,000 Brits , EU membership is not all its cracked to be.

AndrewJB
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:39 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:When you are in your 40s you've already had the benefits, trust me when your kids reach the age you are now they'll be benefits for only a handful of fortune people & the majority are likely to see misery, the future as the trajectory of lead balloon with the the current EU model.
If you were to stop and consider all of you preset assumptions - “the EU is going downhill” “the EU is undemocratic” and “Britain has no sovereignty while in the EU” - the baselines from which your opposition to the EU stems, and you found them to be wrong or grossly over exaggerated, would you hold your hands up and reconsider your opposition?

Dike Muff
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Dike Muff » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:39 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:He sounds like deluded europhiles who cling on to the outdated idea that you can remain in the EU and stay loyal to it and negotiate a better deal. We've been paying £9 billion net, a year, to be part of the federalist experiment. We could have joined the rest of the world that's set to grow, and not paid a penny for it.

In the experience of 17,400,000 Brits , EU membership is not all its cracked to be.
Both voted Leave. My father is still adamant that we should Leave; deal or not.

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:44 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I have tried to have a chat with my 17 year old who thinks we should remain.

She does not know why, she will not read any history or read any details on the EU but is adamant we will be better staying in.

I did post a video of Peter Zeihan’s yesterday, well worth a watch of the changing world order.

The young of today today have a troubled future, eligning with the EU will prove to be big mistakes by 2030.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feU7HT0 ... ture=share" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But you've also shown that you're willing to believe any old tripe that is anti-remain. Age and wisdom don't necessarily come together.

Lancasterclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:49 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:If you believe the young are better judges than their elders, put your children in charge of running the household bills etc for a month.

Please post their decision making on here.
Under 18 can't vote.

So thats a really silly thing to say. But its Brexit, so I'm very used to it by now sadly.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:52 pm

Dike Muff wrote:Both voted Leave. My father is still adamant that we should Leave; deal or not.
He's clearly a democrat and somebody that believes that the largest single expression of democracy the nation has ever witnessed should actually be implemented.

Fair play to him.

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