Slightly luckier here, dad voted remain and is possibly more angry about it than I am (for Ringo, my dad is from Burnley and ticks all the boxes you require!)Dike Muff wrote:Both voted Leave. My father is still adamant that we should Leave; deal or not.
You are so unimaginiative. Which is more likely:Lord Beamish wrote:Our current set of Old People are a strange bunch. Barely any of the Great Generation who fought ad suffered great loss against the rise of Fascism still remain, due to the inevitable passage of time. What we're now left with is their children who, having being blessed with the peace, prosperity, and good fortune(NHS, Free University Education for All,Secure Jobs, Cheap Mortgages etc), now want to simultaneously deny the next generation of these whilst somehow claiming ownership for the hard work of the generation above them that actually earned all of this.
It’s not quite American Civil War type Family Division, but it’s not far off.Lancasterclaret wrote:Slightly luckier here, dad voted remain and is possibly more angry about it than I am (for Ringo, my dad is from Burnley and ticks all the boxes you require!)
Mum, despite being the nicest possible person in the world, won't ever vote anything but leave and her three remain voting kids have to deal with that.
You lack scope. This isn't just about Brexit; it’s about voting patterns for the past four decades. Voting for Governments that Privatise Public Services with the lure of a few making a quick buck because theyre in on the scheme of deliberately undervaluing the price of shares before floatation. Hey, we can turn our £3 grand of savings into £6 grand and buy ourselves a new Sierra Estate! Shame our Utilities will be flogged off to the highest bidder in order to do this. Voting for Governments who sell off Council Hosing Stock cheaply(a good thing in itself) but then make it nigh on impossible for Local Councils to ringfence said money into building new Social Housing. Voting for Governments who have continuously underfunded the NHS, Schools, Child Services, Police etcdsr wrote:You are so unimaginiative. Which is more likely:
1. People who voted Brexit have a different opinion from you;
2. People who voted Brexit agree with you that the EU is wonderful but are voting against their children's interest.
Use your imagination. Brexiters don't have horns and a tail; they are ordinary people, just like Remainers are ordinary people, and they voted in what they believe is the best interest of future generations, just like Remainers voted in what they believe is the best interest of future generations.
Believe Brexiters to be wrong, by all means; but don't believe that they don't want the best for their family.
Envy the wifes family to be honest. All of them absolutely batshit mental Brexiteers (despite again, being the nicest people you could meet)Dike Muff wrote:It’s not quite American Civil War type Family Division, but it’s not far off.
You have checked that your father in law isn’t Ringo haven’t you?Lancasterclaret wrote:Envy the wifes family to be honest. All of them absolutely batshit mental Brexiteers (despite again, being the nicest people you could meet)
Safe to say we don't talk about it at any family gatherings!
TheFamilyCat wrote:You have checked that your father in law isn’t Ringo haven’t you?
Almost identical to my experience.Dike Muff wrote:My 69 year old Father was running my mother and his finances into the ground until I stepped in. His utter refusal to embrace technology and change meant that they were haemorrhageing literally hundreds of pounds every quarter with Utility Bills, Insurances etc. He still believed in the idea that, if you stayed loyal to a Company/Provider, you’d get a better deal. He was paying about £450 a year on White Goods insurance, FFS! He could’ve bought a new washer and dryer every year for that!
Age and ‘experience’ are not all they’re cracked up to be.
Is that the same Nigel Farage who doesn't believe in democracy?SmudgetheClaret wrote:Establishment Kryptonite = the Brexit Party
Join here
https://thebrexitparty.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think it's the one who got fewer votes in a General Election than this dolphinSpijed wrote:Is that the same Nigel Farage who doesn't believe in democracy?
Good on your dad.nil_desperandum wrote:Almost identical to my experience.
I got "Power of Attorney" for my "working class" dad, (fast approaching 90), about 3 years ago.
I almost immediately cut his bills significantly, and made every aspect of his life more efficient and cost-effective. Despite this he won't consider a mobile phone and refuses to understand that using computers / technology etc. can have any positive impact on our lives.
He wasn't old enough to serve in WW2, but is still "fighting the Germans", and has a politically incorrect attitude towards people with different coloured faces. Despite this I will be taking him to vote at the local elections, where his vote will no doubt reflect his views, and should we have a "People's Vote" it will not be possible to convince him that voting "leave" may not be advantageous to his children and grandchildren, despite many representations having been made to him by them over the past couple of years.
They become our children in the end. It’s a good job we still love ‘em, in spite of their faults.nil_desperandum wrote:Almost identical to my experience.
I got "Power of Attorney" for my "working class" dad, (fast approaching 90), about 3 years ago.
I almost immediately cut his bills significantly, and made every aspect of his life more efficient and cost-effective. Despite this he won't consider a mobile phone and refuses to understand that using computers / technology etc. can have any positive impact on our lives.
He wasn't old enough to serve in WW2, but is still "fighting the Germans", and has a politically incorrect attitude towards people with different coloured faces. Despite this I will be taking him to vote at the local elections, where his vote will no doubt reflect his views, and should we have a "People's Vote" it will not be possible to convince him that voting "leave" may not be advantageous to his children and grandchildren, despite many representations having been made to him by them over the past couple of years.
Obviously they can't vote.Lancasterclaret wrote:Under 18 can't vote.
So thats a really silly thing to say. But its Brexit, so I'm very used to it by now sadly.
Other four were Scrooge McDuck and those three annoying nephew ones!Darthlaw wrote:Didn't you sign the petition, five times with your different e-mail addresses, to revoke article 50 Mr Duck?
No, cos its still sillyQuickenthetempo wrote:Obviously they can't vote.
You get the point I was making though don't you?
It's not going be though is it if we are still tied in.Lancasterclaret wrote:Then that will be their choice, crucially not mine or yours.
Have you applied to stand as an MEP as well?Lancasterclaret wrote:I've joined.
Mr D. Duck of the Brexit Party at your service.
My opposition stems from immigration 75% 25% sovereignty, as a estimate i reckon It's 50% 50% split with the leavers, some leavers on here don't even mention immigration it's all about sovereignty for them, everyone's different, some leavers are that passionate about sovereignty you could be looking at 100% for that reason alone & absolutely no concerns with mass immigration.AndrewJB wrote:If you were to stop and consider all of you preset assumptions - “the EU is going downhill” “the EU is undemocratic” and “Britain has no sovereignty while in the EU” - the baselines from which your opposition to the EU stems, and you found them to be wrong or grossly over exaggerated, would you hold your hands up and reconsider your opposition?
I can imagine the interview nowTheFamilyCat wrote:Have you applied to stand as an MEP as well?
They actually do interviews?Lancasterclaret wrote:I can imagine the interview now
Brexit party official - "So Mr Duck, how angry do these remainy traitors make you?"
D Duck - "Oh I'm very annoyed. I've prepared details of how WTO terms are the way forward, if you could just fill in the more obvious gaps that would be great"
Brexit party official - "What? Oh, we don't worry about, we just want to leave"
D Duck "but we have an alternative plan right? "
Brexit party official - "REMAINER ****, LEAVE MEANS LEAVE etc etc"
"
In my view those who are so keen on No Deal are thinking too short term. They just want out with no plan on what is going to happen yet. Does it really matter if we spend half a dozen years in a withdrawal period actually sorting things out when we're looking at the next fifty years of the country?dsr wrote:Because trade deals are better than no deals.
No-one is suggesting that we won't have trade deals. You're thinking too short term. Just because there will be no trade deals in force on the day we leave, in accordance with the EU's negotiating position, does not mean we won't be signing them later. Most countries recognise that trade deals are a mutually good thing, and so trade deals will be signed. Possibly not with the EU, because the EU sees the principle of being nasty to the Brits as being paramount; but other countries don't share their prejudice.
Go back to when you was 15 throughout the pubescent years & reflect on the silly mistakes, hailed as a hero today & quickly forgotten about, age brings experience, we all had ideas not being a man at that age & now some of us would laugh at what we used to think, it's only maturing & everyday life progressing we now reach different conclusions on a individual basis.aggi wrote:This seemed relevant to the youth don't have enough sense to make decisions discussion.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... -rome-roma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What are you then, the exception that proves the rule?Jakubclaret wrote:Go back to when you was 15 throughout the pubescent years & reflect on the silly mistakes, hailed as a hero today & quickly forgotten about, age brings experience, we all had ideas not being a man at that age & now some of us would laugh at what we used to think, it's only maturing & everyday life progressing we now reach different conclusions on a individual basis.
just as funny as the duck & costume what conjured up earlier, some of us are wasted on this forum, we'd make good stand up comedians.That’s what I find strange, you all think those who want to leave are looking short term. I have posted the link to one of the most recognised geopolitical exponents who explains that Germany is on a one way road to collapse. It’s population is shrinking and it’s heading for earl trouble.aggi wrote:In my view those who are so keen on No Deal are thinking too short term. They just want out with no plan on what is going to happen yet. Does it really matter if we spend half a dozen years in a withdrawal period actually sorting things out when we're looking at the next fifty years of the country?
Stomping out in a fit of pique and then having to rush all of the deals from a position of weakness isn't taking a long term view.
aggi wrote:But you've also shown that you're willing to believe any old tripe that is anti-remain. Age and wisdom don't necessarily come together.
Hi Lancs, sorry I can't let you make those comments about "the old" I've no idea what age you think is "old" maybe when you can get senior rates for football tickets.Lancasterclaret wrote:
The old are fantastic, but the one thing that they are not good at (in the main) is dealing with rapid change, and they remember stuff (hell, we all do!) with distinctly rose tinted glasses.
I voted so my kids could enjoy the benefits I have had, namely the chance to work freely in Europe with minimal hassle.
You voted so your kids and grandkids lose that.
Hi LB, strange comments, not all well informed. Yes, the generation who were young adults thru the war have all but gone. I'm one of the "baby boom" generation.Lord Beamish wrote:Our current set of Old People are a strange bunch. Barely any of the Great Generation who fought ad suffered great loss against the rise of Fascism still remain, due to the inevitable passage of time. What we're now left with is their children who, having being blessed with the peace, prosperity, and good fortune(NHS, Free University Education for All,Secure Jobs, Cheap Mortgages etc), now want to simultaneously deny the next generation of these whilst somehow claiming ownership for the hard work of the generation above them that actually earned all of this.
Hi Lancs, so your Mum voted brexit and your wife's family voted brexit and yet you didn't explain to them all "the realities?"Lancasterclaret wrote:Envy the wifes family to be honest. All of them absolutely batshit mental Brexiteers (despite again, being the nicest people you could meet)
Safe to say we don't talk about it at any family gatherings!
Paul Waine wrote:Hi LB, strange comments, not all well informed. Yes, the generation who were young adults thru the war have all but gone. I'm one of the "baby boom" generation.
"Free uni education" but less than 5% got the chance to go. School leaving age 14. I've no idea how you get this to be "Free uni education for all."
Those that could qualify were able to afford to go. By the time I got to university age(and could gone without Student Loans)I’d assert that that figure was much higher than 5%.
Some weren’t; that is always the case. But compared to employment now, the ‘60s/‘70s/‘80s for the Upper Working Class and the Middle Class we’re a golden age for employment. Apprenticeships leading to near lifelong employment and generous pensions at the end. The Baby Boomers were truly blessed in this department. That why so many of them have retired on copper bottomed final salary deals that their grandchildren will hear about in legend.
I maybe should have said that the gap between wages an house prices was easily bridgable; not the gaping chasm now that is meaning so many cannot get on the property ladder and are stuck in rent traps.
As for the 15% mortgages, I don’t think that those figures were ever maintained for all that long, and even though they would have had detrimental effects on borrowers(my folks included), they would be far more easily absorbed then than if the same happened now.
As I posted earlier, take a look at unemployment stats. There were lots of people out of work in the 60s, 70s and 80s. It was closure of a couple of major local employers (near where I was living) that led to my first house falling in value. All across Lancashire, including Burnley, jobs were regularly cut in textiles and other sectors through 60s and 70s. Petchems, including ICI, Shell and Courtaulds, were shedding 000s in 80s. I was part of all of this, closures and "re-structurings."Lord Beamish wrote:Some weren’t; that is always the case. But compared to employment now, the ‘60s/‘70s/‘80s for the Upper Working Class and the Middle Class we’re a golden age for employment. Apprenticeships leading to near lifelong employment and generous pensions at the end. The Baby Boomers were truly blessed in this department. That why so many of them have retired on copper bottomed final salary deals that their grandchildren will hear about in legend
With the current mortgage rates, a monthly repayment now takes up a lower proportion of after-tax salary than a monthly repayment did in your golden days. 15% mortgages didn't last long, but 9% mortgages did.Lord Beamish wrote:Some weren’t; that is always the case. But compared to employment now, the ‘60s/‘70s/‘80s for the Upper Working Class and the Middle Class we’re a golden age for employment. Apprenticeships leading to near lifelong employment and generous pensions at the end. The Baby Boomers were truly blessed in this department. That why so many of them have retired on copper bottomed final salary deals that their grandchildren will hear about in legend.
...
I maybe should have said that the gap between wages an house prices was easily bridgable; not the gaping chasm now that is meaning so many cannot get on the property ladder and are stuck in rent traps.
As for the 15% mortgages, I don’t think that those figures were ever maintained for all that long, and even though they would have had detrimental effects on borrowers(my folks included), they would be far more easily absorbed then than if the same happened now.
I'm referring back to about a week ago when you posted a dozen or so "facts" that were unmitigated bullshit. It wasn't an educated, reasoned argument. It was outright lies, plain and simple.Lowbankclaret wrote:Perhaps your not willing to listen to a educated reasoned argument.
Or perhaps someone who voted leave cannot have been reading and doing research to base an educated decision on.
For you it’s all about a bull **** statement on a red bus that brainwashed everyone.
How would they ever learnLancasterclaret wrote:If I was an old bloke who shouted at kids for doing what kids do, thats what I'd post.
But I'm not, so I don't.
Whilst you will appreciate I did copy and paste that.aggi wrote:I'm referring back to about a week ago when you posted a dozen or so "facts" that were unmitigated bullshit. It wasn't an educated, reasoned argument. It was outright lies, plain and simple.
Nothing to do with a bus, no idea why you brought that up. Guess it's easier to defeat a made up argument.