Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[CombatClaret]

Not really when they also said they were prepared to walk away with a WTO scenario.

It all highlights the problem with the EU. You cant have a one shoe fits all economic policy, or environmental policy, or any other kind of policy. Someone always gains, and someone always loses . We need the flexibility of independence to negotiate the waters of the world.

Is this the same WTO stance that was never mentioned or campaigned on in the referendum? Having that stance doesn't make what was said about zero checks and frictionless trade any less of a lie.

You can't have a one size fits all policy that will please everyone for anything in society, from local councils to the EU so we find the least worst solution with the most collective benefits. Trade deals have always been about balancing the gains and losses. Except now outside a united bloc we have far less negotiating power against every country we look to deal and will have to eat far more losses for the similar gains. On top of this we now have implemented costly and time consuming checks with our biggest and closest market. Checks and restrictions we were repeatedly promised would never occur.

[Colburn_Claret]

Is this the same WTO stance that was never mentioned or campaigned on in the referendum? Having that stance doesn't make what was said about zero checks and frictionless trade any less of a lie.

You can't have a one size fits all policy that will please everyone for anything in society, from local councils to the EU so we find the least worst solution with the most collective benefits. Trade deals have always been about balancing the gains and losses. Except now outside a united bloc we have far less negotiating power against every country we look to deal and will have to eat far more losses for the similar gains. On top of this we now have implemented costly and time consuming checks with our biggest and closest market. Checks and restrictions we were repeatedly promised would never occur.

You see it your way Combat, I'll just agree to disagree.
Nothing that's been seen, said or done leads me to wish I hadn't voted Leave.
You're still riding the prophesy wagon, when no one knows where it's going. Fortunately wherever it leads is better than where it was imo.

[Colburn_Claret]

That can't be right. Brexiteers have been insisting that the EU (whatever that entity is) have all the power and the member states are subservient to it and have to do what they're told.

But that is the inevitable consequence. They will come to an agreement that upsets the minority. Just as we the British, were 9 times out of 10 in that minority. Smaller economies have to take it, but we don't. We don't need the EU. The cost of its benefits never were worthwhile. Politically or monetary.

[nil_desperandum]

They will come to an agreement that upsets the minority. Just as we the British, were 9 times out of 10 in that minority.

Sorry - but what complete nonsense.
"The British government voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999

Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%."

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-be ... influence/

[CombatClaret]

You see it your way Combat, I'll just agree to disagree.
Nothing that's been seen, said or done leads me to wish I hadn't voted Leave.
You're still riding the prophesy wagon, when no one knows where it's going. Fortunately wherever it leads is better than where it was imo.

Gove 2016: “There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to … after we vote to leave we will remain in this zone.

Gove 2019: “significant change” with “inevitable” border checks for “almost everybody” who imports from the EU from next year.

There's nothing there to 'disagree' with, it's not an opinion but a politician telling voters one thing then once the race is won enacting another.

[CombatClaret]

https://twitter.com/nickreeves9876/stat ... 11937?s=09

David Lammy speaking the powerful truth.

[claretonthecoast1882]

David Lammy

[Jakubclaret]

You see it your way Combat, I'll just agree to disagree.
Nothing that's been seen, said or done leads me to wish I hadn't voted Leave.
You're still riding the prophesy wagon, when no one knows where it's going. Fortunately wherever it leads is better than where it was imo.

It'll lead to a more prosperous outlook than previous, you could have typed Wuhan into your Garmin & ended up in a better destination than the signage previously, just too many dark warning signs that weren't going away & if anything intensifying.

[CombatClaret]

David Lammy

Try playing the argument not the man.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Try playing the argument not the man.

He can't even read his own notes without bumbling along and getting his words wrong. He is a liar, a racist and a nuisance just as his record proves

[CombatClaret]

He can't even read his own notes without bumbling along and getting his words wrong. He is a liar, a racist and a nuisance just as his record proves

...

Try playing the argument not the man.

[claretonthecoast1882]

...

Try playing the argument not the man.

You are going to have to give me a reason to listen to the idiot, rather than some lame defence of him

[CombatClaret]

You are going to have to give me a reason to listen to the idiot, rather than some lame defence of him

And yet people bemoan that we don't listen and engage with the opinions of the people we dislike.

[Jakubclaret]

Johnson spaffed £50 Million on the bridge without even a brick being laid. There are genuine questions about how the various contracts were awarded, and also about how the public purse was raided for something that was supposed to be a private enterprise.

Hilarious that you're so open to hugely expensive bonkers thinking by a man with a Napoleonic complex (are these ideas about making life better for Britons, or about his own legacy?), but when political parties put forward real ideas designed to improve the whole country - taking control of our network infrastructure and expanding it, or investing in a green revolution, for example - those ideas are "too expensive to implement". You're either consciously practicing double standards, or you've been manipulated by the media.

Mistake were made by both of them, when apple turned around & were willing to give the money under the condition a store had to be on the bridge, it should have been agreed there & then & sod what Joanna Lumley thought, & khan to a degree should have carried the baton when becoming the mayor, the public hate taxpayers money being wasted but abandoning the project after the money had gone in was a wrong move.

[Colburn_Claret]

It'll lead to a more prosperous outlook than previous, you could have typed Wuhan into your Garmin & ended up in a better destination than the signage previously, just too many dark warning signs that weren't going away & if anything intensifying.

In your opinion.
Your veiw hasn't changed, I get that, but neither has mine. The suppositions you come up with are the same suppositions you've been coming up with for the last 3 years. But you don't know now, just like you didn't know then, what the final outcome will be. Seeing the chaos in France, the shouting's from the poorer states, the precarious German economy, I'm happier than ever that we are out of it. It's a headache we can do without, and there was always more danger of sinking, from being tied to a failing federalist experiment, than floating around on our own.
There's no need to reply, I already know you don't see it, and probably never will, unless the EU finally falls on its own sword and breaks up.

[aggi]

But that is the inevitable consequence. They will come to an agreement that upsets the minority. Just as we the British, were 9 times out of 10 in that minority. Smaller economies have to take it, but we don't. We don't need the EU. The cost of its benefits never were worthwhile. Politically or monetary.

So you're saying that we're not really negotiating with 27 different countries and we don't need to consider the minority?

Just as we the British, were 9 times out of 10 in that minority. This though is just completely laughable and shows what a shaky grasp of the reality some people in this debate have.

[RingoMcCartney]

From April 2015-16 House prices rose by 8%.
From Oct 2018 - 19 House prices rose by 1.3%

Even with the certainty of Brexit and foreign property speculators returning to the market, and even with an increase in regional prices you are crowing about even at the wildest end of speculation 4 or 5% growth!!!

The question of wether a property boom is good (bubble etc) is good is also moot. Next you will be saying that increased spending on credit cards is good.

So no crash then!!

A prediction that was, misguidedly, touted as "evidence" by remoaners, that brexit would be bad for the UK!

[RingoMcCartney]

That’s all that was needed, the rest was your usual waffle. I’m looking forward to you trying to explain the new trade deal that will be as good as or better than the deal we had. In anticipation perhaps you can put up a link to one good piece of economic news that’s happened since we “left” the EU? Just one? (European stock markets hitting record highs doesn’t count!)

It appears that you dont believe something the rest of the country, save a few and dwindling number of extreme europhiles, believe to be a fact.

Namely, we have left the European Union....

[AndrewJB]

He can't even read his own notes without bumbling along and getting his words wrong. He is a liar, a racist and a nuisance just as his record proves

Says someone who supports Boris Johnson... Oh how I miss irony.

[AndrewJB]

It'll lead to a more prosperous outlook than previous, you could have typed Wuhan into your Garmin & ended up in a better destination than the signage previously, just too many dark warning signs that weren't going away & if anything intensifying.

I thought you were an evidence man? Where’s your evidence for this “project happy-clappy“?

[JohnMac]

What have I missed so far?

Nothing really.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Says someone who supports Boris Johnson... Oh how I miss irony.

[Burnley Ace]

So no crash then!!

A prediction that was, misguidedly, touted as "evidence" by remoaners, that brexit would be bad for the UK!

Cruising along at 8% now 1%. I’d say that’s a crash or do you think it has to be negative?

[Burnley Ace]

It appears that you dont believe something the rest of the country, save a few and dwindling number of extreme europhiles, believe to be a fact.

Namely, we have left the European Union....

So you can’t find one good piece of economic news then? Yes we’ve left - we are still paying in, still following their rules, still haven’t singed any deals, still governed by the ECJ - what is it we have left?

[Jakubclaret]

So you can’t find one good piece of economic news then? Yes we’ve left - we are still paying in, still following their rules, still haven’t singed any deals, still governed by the ECJ - what is it we have left?

No wonder we haven’t signed any deals yet if they are expecting us burn the paperwork

[RingoMcCartney]

Cruising along at 8% now 1%. I’d say that’s a crash or do you think it has to be negative?

Then your definition of the housing market crash that was predicted, and touted as "evidence" that leaving the EU would be bad for the uk. Is completely out of kilter with the rest of us.

It was never going to happen. It has not happened having left the European Union.

[RingoMcCartney]

So you can’t find one good piece of economic news then? Yes we’ve left - we are still paying in, still following their rules, still haven’t singed any deals, still governed by the ECJ - what is it we have left?

We have left the European Union.




(IMF predict the UK economy to outperform Germany, France and the Eurozone as a whole. But dont tell pessimism monger Burnley Ace!)

[Cryssys]

(IMF predict the UK economy to outperform Germany, France and the Eurozone as a whole. But dont tell pessimism monger Burnley Ace!)

This is the same IMF as predicted this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36284200

These are the same experts you have debunked earlier in the thread. Why do you think they are right this time?

Are you being selective on the grounds they're saying what you want to believe?

[Cryssys]

(IMF predict the UK economy to outperform Germany, France and the Eurozone as a whole. But dont tell pessimism monger Burnley Ace!)

They also said this:

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) left its forecast for UK economic growth this year and next unchanged on Monday, but warned that the outlook depended on Britain avoiding a no-deal exit from the European Union.

The financial watchdog said the UK economy would grow by 1.4 per cent this year and 1.5 per cent in 2021 after anaemic growth of 1.3 per cent last year. The figures are unchanged from its October forecasts.

“The growth forecast assumes an orderly exit from the European Union at the end of January followed by a gradual transition to a new economic relationship,” its World Economic Outlook said, adding that its forecasts depended on the UK and EU “averting” a no-deal exit.

Link: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 91106.html

[RingoMcCartney]

This is the same IMF as predicted this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36284200

These are the same experts you have debunked earlier in the thread. Why do you think they are right this time?

Are you being selective on the grounds they're saying what you want to believe?

No not at all. Given , we have left the EU. Time has proven they got their previous predictions, that were touted as pessimism riddled "evidence" that leaving the EU would be bad for the UK, wrong.

They may prove to get their new predictions wrong too.

I was asked for positive economic news. I provided it.

What seems to happening on your part is that when the predictions/ economic assumptions were pessimistic. You were only too pleased to believe them.

We have left the European Union. They havent materialized.

Now, when the same body makes optimistic predictions that, admittedly, may not materialize as well. You, yourself, now want to cherry pick what you do and don't want to believe.....

[RingoMcCartney]

Your side said you had "evidence" leaving would be disastrous.

We've left.

Disaster didn't happen.

You were wrong.

Get over it.

[Spijed]

Your side said you had "evidence" leaving would be disastrous.

We've left.

Disaster didn't happen.

You were wrong.

Get over it.

When it comes to EU rules and regulations we haven't left in that respect as it'll remain the same for the next few months.

So no wonder there aren't any disasters.

Once we've left properly that could be a different story entirely

[aggi]

Strangely those who complained that a number of the leave deals that involved far less alignment than we have in the transition period were "Brexit in name only" are now seemingly trying to claim that Brexit has fully happened.

[aggi]

Anyway, I see that someone has paid for Boris' Christmas holiday and it is more than a little murky exactly who it was.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tory-donor

You'd think that as PM you'd try and be above reproach rather than taking freebies for your christmas holidays. (And yes, before someone points out that Blair did the same I disagree with that as well.)

[aggi]

And Javid sacked due to refusing to sack his advisory team and become a puppet. It seems that numbers 10 and 11 will be having joint advisers in the future.

Not surprising to see Rishi Sunak step into the role. He's been on the tv a fair bit recently parroting the party line and happily contradicting himself.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Seems someone didn’t like an unelected bureaucrat running things.

That’s a big thing to done people right?

[Spijed]

And Javid sacked due to refusing to sack his advisory team and become a puppet. It seems that numbers 10 and 11 will be having joint advisers in the future.

Not surprising to see Rishi Sunak step into the role. He's been on the tv a fair bit recently parroting the party line and happily contradicting himself.

Sounds very much like Dominic Cummings runs everything and that Boris Johnson is just his minion.

[RingoMcCartney]

When it comes to EU rules and regulations we haven't left in that respect as it'll remain the same for the next few months.

So no wonder there aren't any disasters.

Once we've left properly that could be a different story entirely

Emergency budget the morning after a vote to leave

Tax increase of around 4000 per annum for individuals.

Stock market crash.

Housing market crash

Water shortage.

Medicine shortages

Upto 850,000 extra unemployed within 18 months of a vote to Leave.

An "immediate and protracted recession" George Osborne

Planes unable to take off and land.

45,000 dairy cows to be slaughtered in Ireland.

Siemans , the massive German engineering company to relocate following brexit.

Food shortages.

Nissan to shut Sunderland.

"Confidence in the British economy will evaporate overnight, should we vote to leave " former chancellor of the exchequer, Labour's Alistair darling. June 2016

"A vote to leave will be like putting a nuclear bomb under the UK economy" David Cameron june 2016

Remoaners claimed they had "evidence" simply voting to leave would trigger economic disaster.

It didn't.

Then they claimed they had "evidence" that triggering Article 50 would trigger economic disaster.

It didn't.

Then they claimed they had "evidence" that leaving without a trade deal would trigger economic disaster.

It didn't.

Then they claimed they had "evidence" that leaving on 31st January would trigger economic disaster.

It hasn't!!

[aggi]

Oh Colin
https://twitter.com/ColinBrowning14/sta ... 1450425344

[CombatClaret]

For those who don't click links or would like to ignore.

Brexiteer complains he has to wait in queue at EU airport: ‘This isn’t the Brexit I voted for'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 35281.html

Colin.jpg (173.31 KiB) Viewed 3183 times

[claretandy]

Seems like this was fake news according to the airport.

[claretonthecoast1882]

It is almost like that guy tweeted this knowing those unable to accept a result would pounce on it. Probably sat with a beer 5 minutes later laughing at the replies.

[Devils_Advocate]

It is almost like that guy tweeted this knowing those unable to accept a result would pounce on it. Probably sat with a beer 5 minutes later laughing at the replies.

Nope looks like he is just a bit of an numpty that's a few fries short of a happy meal

"Although some commenters have suggested that the Twitter post may be a parody, the account has consistently shared posts about Brexit and other issues in recent months which do not appear to be satirical."

[aggi]

Seems like this was fake news according to the airport.

I don't think anyone (apart from Colin maybe) thought it was due to Brexit given that we're in the transition period (although a large number of leave posters on here at least are really struggling with the concept of the transition period so you never know).

It's more the curious idea that Colin voted for a Brexit to end freedom of movement and expects that this will result in shorter queues for him when he goes to Europe.

[claretandy]

I don't think anyone (apart from Colin maybe) thought it was due to Brexit given that we're in the transition period (although a large number of leave posters on here at least are really struggling with the concept of the transition period so you never know).

It's more the curious idea that Colin voted for a Brexit to end freedom of movement and expects that this will result in shorter queues for him when he goes to Europe.

It's fake, a thread.

https://twitter.com/EdClowes/status/1228307494981832705

[aggi]

It's fake, a thread.

https://twitter.com/EdClowes/status/1228307494981832705

I missed this at the time. I can't see anything in your link saying it was fake (people were laughing at the general premise of voting for Brexit and then complaining about airport queues, most people were still aware that we can currently use EU gates).

[aggi]

Anyway, I see that we're back to threatening No Deal again.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ks-in-june

[CombatClaret]

So the chair of the anti EU right wing 'party within a party' ERG 'Brexit Hard Man' Steve Baker has resigned as well as deleting a load of tweets many of which relate to Brexit and support for Heathrows third runway.

What's the matter Steve, surely you'd want to stay on and bask in the glory of Brexit's success..?

[CombatClaret]

Anyway, I see that we're back to threatening No Deal again.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ks-in-june

I thought Brexit was done... What happened to the oven ready deal.

Flooding hitting communities hard and a global virus outbreak, now is just the time for small 'hands off', I'm alright Jack government.

[dsr]

I thought Brexit was done... What happened to the oven ready deal.

If the EU don't want a free trade deal, then there won't be a free trade deal. It's obvious to all parties, remainers as well as Brexiters, that free trade all round is a good option for both sides; but the EU wants to confuse it with the Elgin Marbles, Gibraltar, and the European Court of Justice.