Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Judging by how mental the extremist remainers are behaving tonight (everyone is ringo) I'd say no deal is defo not off the table
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Not everyone Damo. Least you have a sense of humour.Damo wrote:Judging by how mental the extremist remainers are behaving tonight (everyone is ringo) I'd say no deal is defo not off the table
I know you share a lot of views with Ringo but are you convinced?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I’d say we are staying in and have been doing so since just after the Referendum, because the Country has just to much to lose.Damo wrote:Judging by how mental the extremist remainers are behaving tonight (everyone is ringo) I'd say no deal is defo not off the table
Which is not to say that the EU is perfect by any means but there again nor was this Country before we went in originally.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
A lot of bullshit was spoken by both sides, not all of it was lies, just faith in people that weren't trustworthy.CombatClaret wrote:I can't remember anyone mentioning a deal at all, or how it might be structured or negotiated.
“Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.” – Liam Fox
"Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing" - Nigel Farage
"Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks
“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.” – Michael Gove
"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" - Daniel Hanna
“It will be possible to negotiate a new settlement with the EU, including a UK-EU free trade deal” – Vote Leave
"There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market." - Boris Johnson
I wonder what they were talking about?! No one would use any of the info to inform their vote.
Letting TM conduct negotiations, has turned out to be the equivalent of asking a Labour Government to deliver a Tory manifesto. Just because May ****** the job up doesn't mean FA. If negotiations had been led by someone who actually understood Brexit, believed in Brexit, and had faith in Britain, history would be completely different.
Leaving on a no deal is the only way to undo the damage she has caused. The sooner she goes hopefully to be replaced by anybody who supports Brexit, the better. Only then can the real negotiations begin.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Its almost a relief that you are coming out with the same old ****.
At least you've taken today a lot better than a lot of Brexiteers have.
Solution is simple
Attach a customs union to her deal, or the Kyle-Wilson amendment and it goes through.
Then its either a soft brexit, or a chance in a 2nd ref of winning it all.
At least you've taken today a lot better than a lot of Brexiteers have.
Solution is simple
Attach a customs union to her deal, or the Kyle-Wilson amendment and it goes through.
Then its either a soft brexit, or a chance in a 2nd ref of winning it all.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Well I want to leave the EU and I support Burnley. Not sure what other views I share with Ringo to be honest.Bordeauxclaret wrote:Not everyone Damo. Least you have a sense of humour.
I know you share a lot of views with Ringo but are you convinced?
Elizibeth is a brexiteer too, clearly. But seems a lot calmer and more eloquent than Ringo.
Could just as easily be one of Charlie's many trolling accounts as it is to be Ringo
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Its not a good day for brexiteers for sure. Well not for a proper brexit i.e. where we can strike any trade deals we like. Its obvious now that a CU at is happening. As long as we are not in the SM I can live with it though.
However its a worse day for remainers imo. After Labour's whips then surely we are leaving. So just hold back on your crowing you lot.
I will fight forever to stop another referundum.
However its a worse day for remainers imo. After Labour's whips then surely we are leaving. So just hold back on your crowing you lot.
I will fight forever to stop another referundum.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
One thing I noticed, the Revoke Article 50 remain protest had anywhere between 350k and over 1M all protesting the same cause.
Yet today, the numbers I’ve seen are described as “in their thousands” any “hundreds” not actually sure buts that’s from the reports I’ve read - and these were all for different things... “Let’s make Brexit Happen” (catchy...); “Leave means Leave”; “the Brexit party”; and other factions... (people’s front of Judea...)
There’s no comparison, yet it highlights the exact problem with Brexit - on one side, remain meant remain; on the other side Brexit meant many things to many people that were just never possible.
Yet today, the numbers I’ve seen are described as “in their thousands” any “hundreds” not actually sure buts that’s from the reports I’ve read - and these were all for different things... “Let’s make Brexit Happen” (catchy...); “Leave means Leave”; “the Brexit party”; and other factions... (people’s front of Judea...)
There’s no comparison, yet it highlights the exact problem with Brexit - on one side, remain meant remain; on the other side Brexit meant many things to many people that were just never possible.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
No-deal brexit would be a seismic event in UK politics comparable to the shock that economic sanctions have on nation states, for which the people who engineered it - hardcore brexiteers, despite however much the Tories may try to pin it on Labour in the coming elections - will not be soon forgiven. I'm not saying we'll turn into the Gaza strip overnight, that'd be ridiculous, but most folk are accustomed to a degree of relative comfort in this country and that won't be surrendered quite so easily, or, to put it more accurately, won't be forgotten when it's pulled out from under their feet when the job losses begin. I think you're massively overestimating the ferocity that normal, otherwise politically disengaged people have for brexit, and massively underestimating the macroeconomic consequences. To reiterate what I've said earlier, in absence of a trade deal which might well be contingent upon acceptance of the terms of the WA anyway, I think WTO is politically untenable even in the short-term, and the surest way of guaranteeing rejoining the EU in the future on worse terms than we had (another thing for which brexiteers will never be forgiven). To put it bluntly, most folk simply don't care fore the puritanical piety of 'true brexit' and couldn't even adequately describe what that means. The result only ever got over the line on the day because it promised to improve the lot of normal folk. If you get your way and folk inevitably begin to suffer, your political worldview will be discredited for two generations.Colburn_Claret wrote:A lot of bullshit was spoken by both sides, not all of it was lies, just faith in people that weren't trustworthy.
Letting TM conduct negotiations, has turned out to be the equivalent of asking a Labour Government to deliver a Tory manifesto. Just because May ****** the job up doesn't mean FA. If negotiations had been led by someone who actually understood Brexit, believed in Brexit, and had faith in Britain, history would be completely different.
Leaving on a no deal is the only way to undo the damage she has caused. The sooner she goes hopefully to be replaced by anybody who supports Brexit, the better. Only then can the real negotiations begin.
Last edited by Spiral on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
What will you do exactly?summitclaret wrote: I will fight forever to stop another referundum.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
She was elected because the people of Burnley are used to being “downtrodden northerners” who feel obliged to vote labour because we are working class and labour is the party of the working man/woman. Not forgetting it’s the party that spunks away the most money on benefits for the masses, so let’s not pretend the manifesto was studied before the ballot box was troubled.martin_p wrote:She was elected on a manifesto that promised a Brexit with a customs union. Not voting for May’s deal has been entirely consistent with that.
She’s hoping, like most remainers, that this whole thing will dwindle away into nothing if it’s left to drag along like it has been doing. The longer it goes on without anyone agreeing anything, the less likely it is to happen at all. And that is exactly what she wants. And I fear that’s what she will get. I only hope the people of Burnley remember her treason when it’s voting time.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
No one is crowing. Its trying to find a solution that suits as many as possible.summitclaret wrote:Its not a good day for brexiteers for sure. Well not for a proper brexit i.e. where we can strike any trade deals we like. Its obvious now that a CU at is happening. As long as we are not in the SM I can live with it though.
However its a worse day for remainers imo. After Labour's whips then surely we are leaving. So just hold back on your crowing you lot.
I will fight forever to stop another referundum.
"No Deal" Brexit isn't that, and it should be binned.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Not a lot I suspect.martin_p wrote:What will you do exactly?
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Wouldn’t have thought so, the people of Burnley are used to being “downtrodden northerners” who feel obliged to vote labour because we are working class and labour is the party of the working man/woman. Not forgetting it’s the party that spunks away the most money on benefits for the masses.bobinho wrote: I only hope the people of Burnley remember her treason when it’s voting time.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
“Not forgetting it’s the party that spunks away the most money on benefits for the masses”
What exactly do you mean Martin?
What exactly do you mean Martin?
Last edited by South West Claret. on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Still can't get my head around that Burnley voted Lib Dem less than a decade ago.
Its a big change
Its a big change
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Finally, an explanation about northern labour voters that makes sense.martin_p wrote:Wouldn’t have thought so, the people of Burnley are used to being “downtrodden northerners” who feel obliged to vote labour because we are working class and labour is the party of the working man/woman. Not forgetting it’s the party that spunks away the most money on benefits for the masses.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Which bit weren't you sure of?South West Claret. wrote:“Not forgetting it’s the party that spunks away the most money on benefits for the masses”
What exactly do you mean?
Most money, benefits or spunking?
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Just to clarify a few things:
If we stay in the customs union but outside the single market we can still have an independent immigration policy (same as Turkey).
If we stay in the customs union AND the single market we cannot have an independent immigration policy.
So, if uncontrolled immigration is one of your concerns for the future of our country, then a customs union seems a reasonable compromise.
If we stay in the customs union but outside the single market we can still have an independent immigration policy (same as Turkey).
If we stay in the customs union AND the single market we cannot have an independent immigration policy.
So, if uncontrolled immigration is one of your concerns for the future of our country, then a customs union seems a reasonable compromise.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
1) Not sure, but think "a customs union" rather than "the customs union" would do it
2) No, but you can use existing EU rules to expel after 3 months if not working (I think that is the criteria)
And its worth reiterating as well, non-EU immigration is above EU immigration. We can't control that very well at all either.
To be honest Mala, my brain is fried so I'm not sure about any of that. Hopefully someone else can clarify better than me!
2) No, but you can use existing EU rules to expel after 3 months if not working (I think that is the criteria)
And its worth reiterating as well, non-EU immigration is above EU immigration. We can't control that very well at all either.
To be honest Mala, my brain is fried so I'm not sure about any of that. Hopefully someone else can clarify better than me!
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Ask bobhino.South West Claret. wrote:“Not forgetting it’s the party that spunks away the most money on benefits for the masses”
What exactly do you mean Martin?
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
And if “uncontrolled immigration” is your only concern, then we may as well just remain, since we don’t have that at presentMala591 wrote:Just to clarify a few things:
If we stay in the customs union but outside the single market we can still have an independent immigration policy (same as Turkey).
If we stay in the customs union AND the single market we cannot have an independent immigration policy.
So, if uncontrolled immigration is one of your concerns for the future of our country, then a customs union seems a reasonable compromise.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Don't think your crowing and you have been seeking compromise for a while to be fair. No deal was never anything other than a tactic. If we still had that option tonight we would still have a chance of getting movement on the trapstop as ireland would be shitting themselves. We have not because the HOC and May were determined to get a soft Brexit.Lancasterclaret wrote:No one is crowing. Its trying to find a solution that suits as many as possible.
"No Deal" Brexit isn't that, and it should be binned.
Last edited by summitclaret on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Your names not Martin is it, I’m talking to the organ grinder not the monkeyGodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Which bit weren't you sure of?
Most money, benefits or spunking?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Add into that that it’s entirely possible that some countries we do trade deals with will want to relax immigration controls.Lancasterclaret wrote:1) Not sure, but think "a customs union" rather than "the customs union" would do it
2) No, but you can use existing EU rules to expel after 3 months if not working (I think that is the criteria)
And its worth reiterating as well, non-EU immigration is above EU immigration. We can't control that very well at all either.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
No I’m asking you as you said it.martin_p wrote:Ask bobhino.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Rubbish. Brexit meant and means we control our money borders trade and laws. Its very very simple.Rick_Muller wrote:One thing I noticed, the Revoke Article 50 remain protest had anywhere between 350k and over 1M all protesting the same cause.
Yet today, the numbers I’ve seen are described as “in their thousands” any “hundreds” not actually sure buts that’s from the reports I’ve read - and these were all for different things... “Let’s make Brexit Happen” (catchy...); “Leave means Leave”; “the Brexit party”; and other factions... (people’s front of Judea...)
There’s no comparison, yet it highlights the exact problem with Brexit - on one side, remain meant remain; on the other side Brexit meant many things to many people that were just never possible.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
But don’t you think if some random bloke on a messageboard can work that out then EU negotiators might just work it out as well?summitclaret wrote:Don't think your crowing and you have been seeming compromise fir a while to be fair. No deal was never anything other than a tactic. If we still had that option tonight we would still have a chance of getting movement on the trapstop
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Well that’s the lie you bought.summitclaret wrote:Rubbish. Brexit meant and means we control our money borders trade and laws. Its very very simple.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Its not a good tactic mate, that is the problem.summitclaret wrote:Don't think your crowing and you have been seeming compromise fir a while to be fair. No deal was never anything other than a tactic. If we still had that option tonight we would still have a chance of getting movement on the trapstop as ireland would be shitting themselves. We have not because the HOC and May were determined to get a soft Brexit.
I've just had to turn the radio off because two guests (leavers) both said things that are blatantly not true in the first five minutes. Until we sort that out, we are going nowhere fast.
Honesty is required by all as we move forward, or this is going to do even more damage.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
No bobhino said it in an argument that went ‘Burnley always votes Labour because.....Labour will get voted out of Burnley at the next election’. I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in his argument.South West Claret. wrote:No I’m asking you as you said it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Its not a lie its what brexit means. Its not happening because we never tried to get it.martin_p wrote:Well that’s the lie you bought.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Net immigration last year = 280,000 = FOUR towns the size of Burnley
Over ten years = FORTY towns the size of Burnley
We need to elect a government who can effectively control immigration (the Australian points system?).
This isn't racist it is just common sense.
Over ten years = FORTY towns the size of Burnley
We need to elect a government who can effectively control immigration (the Australian points system?).
This isn't racist it is just common sense.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Did he????South West Claret. wrote:No I’m asking you as you said it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Nop definitely you Martin.martin_p wrote:Wouldn’t have thought so, the people of Burnley are used to being “downtrodden northerners” who feel obliged to vote labour because we are working class and labour is the party of the working man/woman. Not forgetting it’s the party that spunks away the most money on benefits for the masses.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Unpopular post alert
If the EU refuse to give us an extension, I really think parliament will vote to revoke Article 50.
We are slowly painting ourselves into a corner, and everyone can see it.
If the EU refuse to give us an extension, I really think parliament will vote to revoke Article 50.
We are slowly painting ourselves into a corner, and everyone can see it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Can I translate that to a “no deal” Brexit then? Which most people recognise as being damaging to the UK and the EU...summitclaret wrote:Its not a lie its what brexit means. Its not happening because we never tried to get it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Seeing some interesting personality traits on here I'd never have otherwise noticed on this thread. What as been interesting as someone who treats it purely as an 'on balance' decision having weighed the pro's and cons, and always expecting all this **** to have been dealt with behind closed doors before the legal challenge to force it to go through parliament, as it should have been like all other government policy decision. I find it increasingly comical how remain continue to spin it that:- a. they are the majority and b. that they are the victims. As though its established fact. The only facts are there was a referendum and in reality, anything less than No deal is better than remainers could justifiably have hoped for at this stage, having lost.
Just saying.
Just saying.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I really bloody hope so mate, it’s the pragmatic and sensible approach.Lancasterclaret wrote:Unpopular post alert
If the EU refuse to give us an extension, I really think parliament will vote to revoke Article 50.
We are slowly painting ourselves into a corner, and everyone can see it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Its nothing like no deal and you know it. Its not extreme its called being your own masters.Rick_Muller wrote:Can I translate that to a “no deal” Brexit then? Which most people recognise as being damaging to the UK and the EU...
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Ok, I’m going to be predictable at 23.00.
Fair play to those Brexiteers who said there wouldn’t be a massive difference after 11pm on 29th, you were right!
Fair play to those Brexiteers who said there wouldn’t be a massive difference after 11pm on 29th, you were right!
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Try reading post 6462 (the one he was replying to but only partially quoted) again.South West Claret. wrote:Nop definitely you Martin.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Bring it on. If the EU force us to do that, then next time we will have a big mandate from the public to leave properly.Lancasterclaret wrote:Unpopular post alert
If the EU refuse to give us an extension, I really think parliament will vote to revoke Article 50.
We are slowly painting ourselves into a corner, and everyone can see it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Not sure that is fair, or accurate.Seeing some interesting personality traits on here I'd never have otherwise noticed on this thread. What as been interesting as someone who treats it purely as an 'on balance' decision having weighed the pro's and cons, and always expecting all this **** to have been dealt with behind closed doors before the legal challenge to force it to go through parliament, as it should have been like all other government policy decision. I find it increasingly comical how remain continue to spin it that:- a. they are the majority and b. that they are the victims. As though its established fact. The only facts are there was a referendum and in reality, anything less than No deal is better than remainers could justifiably have hoped for at this stage, having lost.
Just saying.
Actually **** that, its a lot of ********.
You so not treating this as a "purely on balance decision having weighed the pros and cons"
No one is.
There is instinctive bias for remain for me, and leave for you. To deny that is completely wrong and doesn't do you any favours.
My sympathy with the leave vote is purely regional based. I know Lancashire has had a rough time for a while now, and I can see why people voted to leave (my thanks to Ringo (yes, really) for being the main person for that)
If I lived in the SE for example, I wouldn't have any truck with any leave arguments, but because I'm a northerner, I can see why.
But at the same time, I see the EU and the economic benefits as something that will help revitalise the area. I have more faith in an council in Brussels doing it than a government in London, even if that govt was labour.
Like I said on the post above, honesty is required moving forwards, and that includes all of us.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It does say a lot about where we are that actually might not be the worst thing in the world if you take a long term Brexit view.summitclaret wrote:Bring it on. If the EU force us to do that, then next time we will have a big mandate from the public to leave properly.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Oh I see now Martin balls his quote up right I’ll ask bob what’s his name tomorrow I’m off to bed now.Greenmile wrote:Try reading post 6462 (the one he was replying to but only partially quoted) again.
Night all.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I am serious about it. I have long held the view that the EU and particularly the Commission are bullies. It needs a Thatcher type PM to stand up to them.Lancasterclaret wrote:It does say a lot about where we are that actually might not be the worst thing in the world if you take a long term Brexit view.
Its needs a GE mandate to say we want a deal but we will leave 2 years after re envoking A 50 if we don't get one. This is where a new PM comes in. The tory party will put that leader in place.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Lancasterclaret wrote:Not sure that is fair, or accurate.
Actually **** that, its a lot of ********.
You so not treating this as a "purely on balance decision having weighed the pros and cons"
No one is.
There is instinctive bias for remain for me, and leave for you. To deny that is completely wrong and doesn't do you any favours.
My sympathy with the leave vote is purely regional based. I know Lancashire has had a rough time for a while now, and I can see why people voted to leave (my thanks to Ringo (yes, really) for being the main person for that)
If I lived in the SE for example, I wouldn't have any truck with any leave arguments, but because I'm a northerner, I can see why.
But at the same time, I see the EU and the economic benefits as something that will help revitalise the area. I have more faith in an council in Brussels doing it than a government in London, even if that govt was labour.
Like I said on the post above, honesty is required moving forwards, and that includes all of us.
Sorry Lancaster, I know you don't believe me but I really am quite relaxed about the whole thing either way. MY decision to vote leave had more to do with the rise of extremist nationalism in Europe and not wanting to be still in when it turned into a bear pit. I don't have any issue with immigration, movement or much else but for a fascination with people and politics. This is history and I know because I intend (to be one of those that) write it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Okay, again, Hungary went right at about the same time as Spain went left. Portugal has probably the worlds most successful socialist government, everyone goes on about the AfD in Germany but their rise isn't as big as the rise of the Greens etc etc etc.[MY decision to vote leave had more to do with the rise of extremist nationalism in Europe and not wanting to be still in when it turned into a bear pit
Is the rise of the far right an issue that Europe has to face?
Definitely!
But a reason to pretend that a 20 mile stretch of water means its nothing to do with us?
You might want to read up on some history there mate.
EDIT - and everyone is biased one way or another in this. Honesty is required for us to move forward.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Like the rest of your post very much by the way. Very reasonableLancasterclaret wrote:Not sure that is fair, or accurate.
Actually **** that, its a lot of ********.
You so not treating this as a "purely on balance decision having weighed the pros and cons"
No one is.
There is instinctive bias for remain for me, and leave for you. To deny that is completely wrong and doesn't do you any favours.
My sympathy with the leave vote is purely regional based. I know Lancashire has had a rough time for a while now, and I can see why people voted to leave (my thanks to Ringo (yes, really) for being the main person for that)
If I lived in the SE for example, I wouldn't have any truck with any leave arguments, but because I'm a northerner, I can see why.
But at the same time, I see the EU and the economic benefits as something that will help revitalise the area. I have more faith in an council in Brussels doing it than a government in London, even if that govt was labour.
Like I said on the post above, honesty is required moving forwards, and that includes all of us.
This user liked this post: Lancasterclaret