Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[RingoMcCartney]

I answered that question over a week ago (post #668 on this thread) and you've ignored it. Look it up.

You're lying yet again Marty.

I asked you a different question. To which you answered "It’s only the final score that matters in football, but life isn’t like that."

So I'll ask you again.



Barnet get a penalty with the scored 0.0.

Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming, 

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not. 









Why not?





Is it because, in your words Marty,

"Its only the final score that matters in football"


If not why not?

[Mala591]

Not only that, but the ERG have already indicated they'll only support a full scale renegoiation of the backstop. Mala's suggestion wouldn't get their (nor probably the DUP's) support.

My own opinion is that the ERG and the DUP would reluctantly accept a legally binding addendum/codicil. The only way to find out is for the EU to give everyone a chance of a way out of the current (avoidable) mess and make the offer.

[Lancasterclaret]

The ERG want a "No Deal", and the DUP are not unhappy about that either (also increases the chances of the Good Friday agreement collapsing as well)

Its kinda key to this whole shitshow to be honest.

[RingoMcCartney]

Continue to misquote Wrongo, it's what you do best.

They believe it will rise, I do. But they also believe they can provide evidence for it before it happens.

Is that any better?


If you can provide it.

But remember it has to be EVIDENCE that leaving the EU will have a negative impact on the uk. 


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE. 



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts

[martin_p]

My own opinion is that the ERG and the DUP would reluctantly accept a legally binding addendum/codicil. The only way to find out is for the EU to give everyone a chance of a way out of the current (avoidable) mess and make the offer.

Well excuse me if I take the ERG’s opinion on what the ERG will do over yours.

[Lancasterclaret]

Can I be honest here Ringo.

The Sun has risen over the earth since it was created. Its about the only certainty we have!

Can you not find a different example?

[martin_p]

You're lying yet again Marty.

I asked you a different question. To which you answered "It’s only the final score that matters in football, but life isn’t like that."

So I'll ask you again.



Barnet get a penalty with the scored 0.0.

Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming, 

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not. 









Why not?





Is it because, in your words Marty,

"Its only the final score that matters in football"


If not why not?

You’re quite right, the teams involved were Burnley and Huddersfield, not Man City and Barnet. So let me answer the Man City v Barnet question - it’s only the final score that matters in football, but life isn’t like that. Hope that clears things up for you.

[AndyClaret]

No Andy, the UK has decided to throw Ireland under a bus.

You constantly fail to look at this from a non-UK point of view. Don't worry though, the one thing that all Brexiteers are united on is that they don't see that.

I take it that you didn't read the article as it doesn't fit your narrative.

[AndyClaret]

The ERG want a "No Deal", and the DUP are not unhappy about that either (also increases the chances of the Good Friday agreement collapsing as well)

Its kinda key to this whole shitshow to be honest.

Stop telling lies, they all want a deal as long as we aren't trapped in the back stop.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not at all, but if the UK decides to go "No Deal", then that throws Ireland under a bus.

If you'd like to expand on the article with your knowledge of the subject, now would be a great time to do it.

[AndyClaret]

Why is it the uk's fault ? It takes 2 you know.

[Lancasterclaret]

Why is it the UKs fault?!?

Jesus, we've been arguing about this for two years!

Where do you want me to start?!?

[martin_p]

They believe it will rise, I do. But they also believe they can provide evidence for it before it happens.

Is that any better?


If you can provide it.

But remember it has to be EVIDENCE that leaving the EU will have a negative impact on the uk. 


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE. 



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts

Wrongo, if you don’t understand the meanings of the word evidence there’s very little point. Continue to believe what you want, I don’t care. All the models economists use to forecast are built using evidence, looking at the historical links between various economic factors and working out how they inter-relate. Given it’s proved impossible for various people to explain the meaning of a single word to you then I think economic models may be a step too far (and to be clear, that’s a forecast based on the evidence of the past, but the evidence is so strong I’m attaching a high level of accuracy to it).

[RingoMcCartney]

You’re quite right, the teams involved were Burnley and Huddersfield, not Man City and Barnet. So let me answer the Man City v Barnet question - it’s only the final score that matters in football, but life isn’t like that. Hope that clears things up for you.

It's the FINAL score that matters. If city go 1.0 down it may prove to be a temporary set back.


We have not left the European Union YET.

But yet you point to what may turn out to be SHORT TERM or reversible business decisions as EVIDENCE that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk.





So I'll ask you YET again.



Barnet get a penalty with the scored 0.0.

Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming, 

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not. 









Why not?

[RingoMcCartney]

Wrongo, if you don’t understand the meanings of the word evidence there’s very little point. Continue to believe what you want, I don’t care. All the models economists use to FORECAST are built using evidence, looking at the HISTORICAL links between various economic factors and working out how they inter-relate. Given it’s proved impossible for various people to explain the meaning of a single word to you then I think economic models may be a step too far (and to be clear, that’s a FORECAST based on the evidence of the past, but the evidence is so strong I’m attaching a high level of accuracy to it).

Enlighten me Marty . Show me what evidence is.

But remember it has to be EVIDENCE that leaving the EU will have a negative impact on the uk. 


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE. 



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts

[Jakubclaret]

It's not that cheap though is it given our minimum wage.

Well it is for them, because the living arrangements are divided in terms of outgoing bills.

[Mala591]

Well excuse me if I take the ERG’s opinion on what the ERG will do over yours.

The art of successful negotiation is to always ask for far more than you honestly expect as the final outcome of the negotiation.

[RingoMcCartney]

Can I be honest here Ringo.

The Sun has risen over the earth since it was created. Its about the only certainty we have!

Can you not find a different example?

It wasn't my example.

And point me to where I said I didn't believe the sun wouldn't not rise tomorrow.


But comparing the sun rising each and every day to what you lot believe is EVIDENCE of the inevitable fact that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk. Based on what may turn out to be short term or reversible business decisions is idiotic. And shows just how desperate and irrational the remoaner zealots are in wanting to be able to turn round and say "we told you so"

[Tall Paul]

[martin_p]

It's the FINAL score that matters. If city go 1.0 down it may prove to be a temporary set back.


We have not left the European Union YET.

But yet you point to what may turn out to be SHORT TERM or reversible business decisions as EVIDENCE that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk.





So I'll ask you YET again.



Barnet get a penalty with the scored 0.0.

Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming, 

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not. 









Why not?

Ok Wrongo I’ll play along. But if we’re going to use your silly analogy it at least has to align with what’s going on. Various forecasts and experts have predicted the most likely outcome of Brexit is an economic downturn with companies choosing to relocate in other parts of the EU. Companies have now started to relocate in the EU. So the analogy is that all the experts have forecast that Man City will beat Barnet, but in order to align with what we’re talking about it has to be Man City that gets the penalty (the equivalent of the forecast starting the actually happen). I’d certainly take that as further evidence that the forecast of a Man City win is likely to be correct.

[Paul Waine]

Can I be honest here Ringo.

The Sun has risen over the earth since it was created. Its about the only certainty we have!

Can you not find a different example?

Hi,

I know I will probably regret this but it's been worrying me for a few days.....

Does no one on here know that it's not the sun that is rising over the earth - it's the earth rotating and when one side of the earth is facing the sun we call it "day" and when that side of the earth is facing away from the sun we call it "night."

There's a whole lot more going on in the great big planetary system and the multiple solar systems beyond our own. I heard on the radio this morning that there is some further research going on that will help scientists to study the ripple effect that Einstein predicted in his "theory of everything."

Anyway, all of that science stuff has got a great deal of predictability.

[Lancasterclaret]

Space is ace Paul!

[Paul Waine]

btw: I attended a webinar yesterday. the presentation involved looking ahead to 2040 and beyond. the economist leading the presentation spoke of the enormous growth in living standards expected in Asia, how this will take many out of low incomes and move them to middle incomes - and producing significant growth in demand for all the "middle income" consumer products. In comparison, he said, demand in Europe would remain, relatively, flat - because Europe is already well developed.

He didn't say this, just my thought: if you were planning to develop a business today, where would you expect the growth in demand for your product (whatever it is) to come from in the next 20 years or so?

Interesting, the economist said he'd speak of a number of scenarios: none of these scenarios was his forecast of the future and whatever happens in the future he already knows that the future won't turn out in the way his scenarios predict.

[Paul Waine]

Space is ace Paul!

Makes me feel very, very, small and insignificant when scientists speak of things that they've observed "billions of light years" away.

[Lancasterclaret]

There is no doubt that the consumer growth that has fuelled Western economies is moving, and there will be huge growth in other parts of the world.

The deals we currently have with the EU on worldwide trade are going to be better than the ones we can get ourselves

IMHO of course.

I may be wrong, as the economist correctly say its a long term forecast that is hard to predict. But a short to medium term one is a bit easier to predict. Which is why I'm convinced (but not at all happy about it) that we are going to take a big hit.

Worth mentioning as well that the growth in green consumers items could also be a huge growth industry, and you'd hope we would be at the forefront of that.

[Jakubclaret]

We feel exactly the same, can't say we but I certainly do, there's no getting through.

[duncandisorderly]

Makes me feel very, very, small and insignificant when scientists speak of things that they've observed "billions of light years" away.

Like the fact that the universe is only 13,000,000,000 years old yet we can see things 46,000,000,000 light years away....

[RingoMcCartney]

Ok Wrongo I’ll play along. But if we’re going to use your silly analogy it at least has to align with what’s going on. Various forecasts and experts have predicted the most likely outcome of Brexit is an economic downturn with companies choosing to relocate in other parts of the EU. Companies have now started to relocate in the EU. So the analogy is that all the experts have forecast that Man City will beat Barnet, but in order to align with what we’re talking about it has to be Man City that gets the penalty (the equivalent of the forecast starting the actually happen). I’d certainly take that as further evidence that the forecast of a Man City win is likely to be correct.

You still have not answered the question.



Barnet get a penalty with the scored 0.0.

Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming, 

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not. 









Why not?

[RingoMcCartney]

Ok Wrongo I’ll play along. But if we’re going to use your silly analogy it at least has to align with what’s going on. Various forecasts and experts have predicted the most likely outcome of Brexit is an economic downturn with companies choosing to relocate in other parts of the EU. Companies have now started to relocate in the EU. So the analogy is that all the experts have forecast that Man City will beat Barnet, but in order to align with what we’re talking about it has to be Man City that gets the penalty (the equivalent of the forecast starting the actually happen). I’d certainly take that as further evidence that the forecast of a Man City win is likely to be correct.

And bringing it back to brexit

Show me what evidence there is that what you believe to be EVIDENCE may eventually just turn out to be short term or reversible business decisions.


But remember it has to be EVIDENCE that leaving the EU will have a negative impact on the uk.



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts

[Burnley Ace]

You can provide evidence of past events. You could provide photographic evidence that the sun HAS risen for , say , the last year, each and every morning.

This evidence can be the basis on which you are able to form an opinion. A forecast. A prediction.

But you cannot provide EVIDENCE for or from an event that has not happened yet.

We have not left the European Union.

Nobody ever has. Therefore, you have no past evidence to provide the basis on which to form an opinion, forcast or opinion.

Claim that what may turn out to be short term or reversible business decisions as EVIDENCE that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk. Is simply an opinion.

If not then do 2 things before I sign off for the weekend.

1, post a photograph of tomorrow's sunrise.


Today.



2, Provide actual evidence that leaving the EU will have a negative impact on the uk.


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE.



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts .

You’re still squirming - what is evidence Ringo? Tick Tock it’s a really simple question!!

I hope you never get to sit on a jury - what would you do if it was a “going equipped to steal” case? Would you stand up and tell the Judge that the arresting officer isn’t giving evidence?

[Burnley Ace]

They believe it will rise, I do. But they also believe they can provide evidence for it before it happens.

Is that any better?

Why do you believe it’s going to rise? What are you basing that opinion on?

[RingoMcCartney]

Marty


Is this EVIDENCE that brexit will have a POSITIVE impact on the U.K


"UK foreign investment hits record high as investors shun Brexit fears"


http://www.cityam.com/270147/uk-foreign ... stors-shun" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Yes or no.?

[RingoMcCartney]

Why do you believe it’s going to rise? What are you basing that opinion on?

My belief it'll rise is based on PAST sunrises.

Your forecasts.



They're based on which country leaving the EU in the PAST again.?

[Burnley Ace]

This is you now saying you have an OPINION!.

Yes, you’re getting there!! I have an opinion based on the EVIDENCE!!!

Do I have to write the definition of evidence or are you going to provide one?

[RingoMcCartney]

You’re still squirming - what is evidence Ringo? Tick Tock it’s a really simple question!!

I hope you never get to sit on a jury - what would you do if it was a “going equipped to steal” case? Would you stand up and tell the Judge that the arresting officer isn’t giving evidence?

Provide actual evidence that leaving the EU will have a negative impact on the uk. 


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE. 



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts .

[Burnley Ace]

My belief it'll rise is based on PAST sunrises.?

Progress!!!!! You have EVIDENCE that the sun has risen in the past, and that is EVIDENCE that the sun will rise in the future!!!

[martin_p]

Marty


Is this EVIDENCE that brexit will have a POSITIVE impact on the U.K


"UK foreign investment hits record high as investors shun Brexit fears"


http://www.cityam.com/270147/uk-foreign ... stors-shun" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Yes or no.?

Well it's certainly evidence that Brexit wasn't worrying them that much in 2017, a full year and three months before it was due to happen. We'd need 2018's figures (particularly the second half) to assess whether that's still the case. The evidence I gave is what is happening now, not 18 months ago, so it's certainly more relevant.

[RingoMcCartney]

Yes, you’re getting there!! I have an opinion based on the EVIDENCE!!!

Do I have to write the definition of evidence or are you going to provide one?

Yes !! You are getting there!


You have an OPINION!!!!!

WEYHEY !!!!!!!




You have an OPINION !!!!!


The weekend starts here!!



You have an OPINION!!!


Just like me!

[martin_p]

My belief it'll rise is based on PAST sunrises.

Your forecasts.



They're based on which country leaving the EU in the PAST again.?

So what was your belief that Man City would beat Barnet then?

[Burnley Ace]

Marty


Is this EVIDENCE that brexit will have a POSITIVE impact on the U.K

You can use it to support your position, the more tenuous the source, the less reliable or more easily refuted it is.

Have you finally understood? Evidence is what you use to form an opinion - you challenge the source or quality of the evidence, not whether it’s evidence or not.

[RingoMcCartney]

If it helps you - my comments are EVIDENCE yours are OPINION.

This is what you were previously claiming!!!!!!


RESULT!!!!!!!




I've finally got through!!!!




You've finally held your hand up and admitted in the post above that you only have an OPINION!!!!!

[martin_p]

Yes !! You are getting there!


You have an OPINION!!!!!

WEYHEY !!!!!!!




You have an OPINION !!!!!


The weekend starts here!!



You have an OPINION!!!


Just like me!

But your Brexit opinion is based on nothing.

[Burnley Ace]

Yes !! You are getting there!


You have an OPINION!!!!!

WEYHEY !!!!!!!




You have an OPINION !!!!!


The weekend starts here!!



You have an OPINION!!!


Just like me!

That’s right, the same as everyone, the big difference is in the credibility of the source of your evidence!!

OMG - 28 pages and you might have understood what everyone has been pointing out!

[martin_p]

That’s right, the same as everyone, the big difference is in the credibility of the source of your evidence!!

OMG - 28 pages and you might have understood what everyone has been pointing out!

Don’t get your hopes up!

[RingoMcCartney]

Yes, you’re getting there!! I have an opinion based on the EVIDENCE!!!

Do I have to write the definition of evidence or are you going to provide one?

Now just so I can sign off a happy man.

Let's look at the 2nd part of your statement


" I have an OPINION based on the EVIDENCE "



Provide it


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE. 



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts .

[Burnley Ace]

This is what you were previously claiming!!!!!!


RESULT!!!!!!!




I've finally got through!!!!




You've finally held your hand up and admitted in the post above that you only have an OPINION!!!!!

You are a bit misleading- that response was in relation to a point that, if I’m not mistaken, we would lose out on (funding or information) because we are no longer going to be in the EU, you were of the opinion that we would come to some agreement. Not quite the same but a good try!

[RingoMcCartney]

That’s right, the same as everyone, the big difference is in the credibility of the source of your evidence!!

Oh no. You've gone and blown it!





The whole point I've been trying to make is that I have NO EVIDENCE.

Are you able to read English.


Just an opinion like you.

I thought we'd finally cracked it!

Bugger.

[Burnley Ace]

Now just so I can sign off a happy man.

Let's look at the 2nd part of your statement


" I have an OPINION based on the EVIDENCE "



Provide it


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE. 

It is my belief (opinion) that the sun will rise tomorrow. To support that belief I have EVIDENCE that the sun has risen since the earth was formed and I present that EVIDENCE to support my belief that the sun will rise tomorrow.

[aggi]

The whole point I've been trying to make is that I have NO EVIDENCE.

We can all agree on this part at least

[Burnley Ace]

Oh no. You've gone and blown it!





The whole point I've been trying to make is that I have NO EVIDENCE.

Are you able to read English.


Just an opinion like you.

I thought we'd finally cracked it!

Bugger.

How did you form that opinion?