Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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TheFamilyCat
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:24 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Boris Johnson has argument with girlfriend.

LBC Saturday 22nd June 2019.

Matt Frei (channel 4 anti brexit) show. Full hour based on Guardian (anti Brexit) hatchet job. First guest he interviews Dominic Grieve, (evangelically hysterically opposed to brexit)

You could not make it up!

Headlined should read

"Sinister , Anti democracy Establishment bring in lorry loads of top soil to make mountain out of mole Hill!!"
You have to remember that the leader will be chosen by party members - 120k of them at the last count. I don’t think any “hatchet job” by the left-leaning media that Tories tend to avoid is going to make a lot of difference.

Burnley Ace
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:48 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Go easy on the groundless insinuations please. I was describing the overblown, disproportionate reaction from the media to what the Guardian report said-

“Police attended and spoke to all occupants of the address, who were all safe and well. There were no offences or concerns apparent to the officers and there was no cause for police action,” a spokesperson said.

As making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Stop attempting to twist my words and say I was trivialising domestic violence. I clearly wasn't, and anyone with an ounce of common sense would have known it.

You can put your handful of mulch down now.

PS. The weathers brilliant so don't think I'm going to reply to any more of your poor taste cheap shots.
Whatever! You were trivialising potential DV. You are an apologist.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:54 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I thought it was a bad deal too, but I would having voted to stay. Anyone wanting to leave with Theresa’s red lines in place could really expect nothing more. I’m sure you understand (apparently our government didn’t) that in leaving we can’t end up with all the good bits without any of the responsibility?

An aside - I have a near neighbour who voted to leave, and also has plans to retire to Spain. I enquirered as to how he squares that circle (some time back). Last week nd he told me that “Boris will sort it” When I pushed a little more, he said it was in Spain’s best interest to let U.K. pensioners live there because th y add to the economy, and don’t take the jobs of locals. I’m not sure who he’d spoken with to get this, but they’d told him I was playing project fear on him (I’m just another guy in the neighbourhood), so not to listen to me. When I asked him what will happen if he gets really sick, he told me the NHS would look after it, because he’s paid in all his life. What would be your advice to my neighbour?
I live in Spain, I'm one of the only survivors of all the lads I knew out here in the 2000's because I'm married to a Spanish lass, without having that sort of backup there's no way I could survive out here, even dealing with the day-to-day bureaucracy is a mountainous task. The NHS is in the UK, if he gets sick and wants NHS treatment he'll have to fly home. The NHS in Spain is much better than the one in the UK but you need to know the ins-and-outs and how to get the best treatment, where to go and how to speak to people. I also have private health which I use if I need an operation, I had an operation on my nose in March and it was wonderful. A big part of the problem with people from the UK who come to live in Spain is the mentality that they and their country are somehow better than Spain when the reverse is true. Language is acceptance and the people are incredible but if you have a superior attitude you'll quickly get nowhere.

But really anyone who thinks Boris Johnson will sort anything needs their head looking at.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:59 pm

The idea that Spain needs British pensioners is another Brexiter fantasy, Spain much prefers the Russians who have money to spend and people from other parts of Europe such as France and Germany because they are better visitors, they are generally more intelligent/cultured, don't shout at the locals, get drunk and fight amongst themselves.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:52 am

This Tory member has had a change of heart,he makes some pertinent points though,https://uk.yahoo.com/news/used-leave-vo ... 20810.html

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:05 am

spain.jpg
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:39 am

Labour MP Caroline Flint has just told Marr that she would rather leave with No Deal than revoke article 50.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:47 am

AndyClaret wrote:Labour MP Caroline Flint has just told Marr that she would rather leave with No Deal than revoke article 50.
If she said that then she's absolutely correct. Incredible the amount of people who have said otherwise. Would be a total failure of democracy- the worst of all options.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:54 am

AndyClaret wrote:Labour MP Caroline Flint has just told Marr that she would rather leave with No Deal than revoke article 50.
Yes. I'm sure most of us picked up on that. It was totally inconsistent with everything else she had said in the interview. Her only motivation seems to be to pacify a noisy leave element in her local constituency.
Used to rate her quite highly but that final comment left her wide open to accusations of being motivated by self-interest, ( simply wanting to hold on to her seat) given that she spent the ENTIRE interview saying that we must avoid no deal at any cost, and that's why she'd be voting for pretty much any deal in order to move things on.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:55 am

taio wrote:If she said that then she's absolutely correct. Incredible the amount of people who have said otherwise. Would be a total failure of democracy- the worst of all options.
Yes, but it was totally inconsistent with what she had said throughout the interview in which she had said that a no deal would be absolutely disastrous for her constituents.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:00 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Yes, but it was totally inconsistent with what she had said throughout the interview in which she had said that a no deal would be absolutely disastrous for her constituents.
I didn't watch it. No deal isn't what I want as a remainer. But revoking A50 would be worse...don't you agree.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:01 am

Around about now you'll get wealthy Crosspool/dsr type people coming on telling you that

"for some of us, we don't need money as much as we need sovereignty"

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:10 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Around about now you'll get wealthy Crosspool/dsr type people coming on telling you that

"for some of us, we don't need money as much as we need sovereignty"
A view I don't agree with but there's nothing wrong it at all. As per c17m people.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:36 am

taio wrote:A view I don't agree with but there's nothing wrong it at all. As per c17m people.
You are making the mistake of assuming (like the aforementioned people do) that people voted to make themselves poorer. They were not told that pre the referendum. At all.

Someone who loses their job because of a No-Deal Brexit will suddenly find sovereignty doesn't pay the bills. And they will look at the tv, and see the people who told them that wouldn't happen still having loads of cash and not struggling, and they will get very angry indeed.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:58 am

I haven't seen this poll furiously retweeted by remainers, he's got a point....
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taio
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You are making the mistake of assuming (like the aforementioned people do) that people voted to make themselves poorer. They were not told that pre the referendum. At all.

Someone who loses their job because of a No-Deal Brexit will suddenly find sovereignty doesn't pay the bills. And they will look at the tv, and see the people who told them that wouldn't happen still having loads of cash and not struggling, and they will get very angry indeed.
People voted for what they wished. It doesn't matter what your guess at the consequences are.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:12 pm

taio wrote:People voted for what they wished. It doesn't matter what your guess at the consequences are.
Not my guess though is it?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:18 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not my guess though is it?
Yours, mine and many other people's. Conjecture aside no one knows though. More people voted to Leave because of sovereignty so fair play to them for expressing their view.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:20 pm

taio wrote:Yours, mine and many other people's. Conjecture aside no one knows though. More people voted to Leave because of sovereignty so fair play to them for expressing their view.
There are no figures to back that up, so that also is conjecture.

One thing is for sure is that lots of people had different reasons to want to leave, and if they don't get what they think they were promised (whatever that is) then there will be consequences.

And if the economy tanks (ie recession type tank) then it won't go down well.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:29 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:There are no figures to back that up, so that also is conjecture.

One thing is for sure is that lots of people had different reasons to want to leave, and if they don't get what they think they were promised (whatever that is) then there will be consequences.

And if the economy tanks (ie recession type tank) then it won't go down well.
I do not need or want figures because what I'm saying is nobody knows. I guess like you it will have a detrimental impact on our economy in the short to medium term. That doesn't mean I don't respect the view of the majority who voted to Leave. It's clear as day why they voted in that way.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:50 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:There are no figures to back that up, so that also is conjecture.

One thing is for sure is that lots of people had different reasons to want to leave, and if they don't get what they think they were promised (whatever that is) then there will be consequences.

And if the economy tanks (ie recession type tank) then it won't go down well.
Can you name reasons other than sovereignty because I can't?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:03 pm

taio wrote:I didn't watch it. No deal isn't what I want as a remainer. But revoking A50 would be worse...don't you agree.
Actually. i don't agree at all.
If we are forced to revoke article 50 (due to lack of credible options), we can revisit the EU situation in the period ahead, and we can - if we wish - plan for an orderly exit form the EU on WTO terms in say 2 years time.
If we just crash out unprepared in a few months time the short to medium term consequences for jobs, the north, the poorest in society etc. are very worrying indeed, and at that point there's no easy way of turning back.
We'd have lost our vetos, our rebate and our credibility.
Renegotiating to get back in if it turns out badly is not an attractive prospect.
Revoking, having an intelligent debate, and then - perhaps - having another vote in the relatively near future, (with an option to leave on WTO terms), wouldn't be an ideal scenario, (a deal remains the best option), but faced with no deal or revoke it's crazy that someone like Flint - having spent 10 minutes on Marr describing what an unmitigated disaster would be, - then concludes by saying she'd vote for it!! It just shows what a mad situation we're in.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:07 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Actually. i don't agree at all.
If we are forced to revoke article 50 (due to lack of credible options), we can revisit the EU situation in the period ahead, and we can - if we wish - plan for an orderly exit form the EU on WTO terms in say 2 years time.
If we just crash out unprepared in a few months time the short to medium term consequences for jobs, the north, the poorest in society etc. are very worrying indeed, and at that point there's no easy way of turning back.
We'd have lost our vetos, our rebate and our credibility.
Renegotiating to get back in if it turns out badly is not an attractive prospect.
Revoking, having an intelligent debate, and then - perhaps - having another vote in the relatively near future, (with an option to leave on WTO terms), wouldn't be an ideal scenario, (a deal remains the best option), but faced with no deal or revoke it's crazy that someone like Flint - having spent 10 minutes on Marr describing what an unmitigated disaster would be, - then concludes by saying she'd vote for it!! It just shows what a mad situation we're in.
We've debated this before. You know I'm referring to withdrawing A50 long term/indefinitely. It would be plain wrong. But I appreciate you disagree.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 pm

taio wrote:Yours, mine and many other people's. Conjecture aside no one knows though. More people voted to Leave because of sovereignty so fair play to them for expressing their view.
Fair play to them for reducing the country to a complete basket case in the pursuit of something that we already have?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:14 pm

taio wrote:Can you name reasons other than sovereignty because I can't?
Immigration
£350 million for the NHS

thats just of the top of my head.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:15 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Fair play to them for reducing the country to a complete basket case in the pursuit of something that we already have?
Fair play to them for exercising their choice and democratic right. I don't know if we will be reduced to a basket case. It's guesswork in the long term.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:15 pm

taio wrote:We've debated this before. You know I'm referring to withdrawing A50 long term/indefinitely. It would be plain wrong. But I appreciate you disagree.
Withdrawing article 50 without a democratic mandate would be wrong,

Taking the "No Deal" option would be wrong for exactly the same reason.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:17 pm

taio wrote:Fair play to them for exercising their choice and democratic right. I don't know if we will be reduced to a basket case. It's guesswork in the long term.
You don't think we've been reduced to a basket case already? Where have you been for the last three years?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Withdrawing article 50 without a democratic mandate would be wrong,

Taking the "No Deal" option would be wrong for exactly the same reason.
I'm totally against No Deal. Bad, but not quite as bad as revoking A50. I say that based only on personal experience - the people I know who voted Leave would be ok to leave with No Deal. They say they voted to leave the EU with or without a deal.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Withdrawing article 50 without a democratic mandate would be wrong,

Taking the "No Deal" option would be wrong for exactly the same reason.
taio isn't even in favour of withdrawing article 50 with a democratic mandate.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:20 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:You don't think we've been reduced to a basket case already? Where have you been for the last three years?
No.

How are you measuring that?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:22 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:taio isn't even in favour of withdrawing article 50 with a democratic mandate.
What makes you say that? I'm specifically and unequivocally saying we shouldn't revoke A50 without a democratic mandate.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:24 pm

taio wrote:No.

How are you measuring that?
How long have you got? You could write an entire book based on the lamentable state of the country over the last few years.

By what measure are we not currently a basket case? What is your criteria for determining whether a developed country has turned into a basket case or not?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:26 pm

taio wrote:What makes you say that? I'm specifically and unequivocally saying we shouldn't revoke A50 without a democratic mandate.
I'm pretty sure it was you who was against a political party standing in a general election on the ticket of revoking article 50 and remaining in the EU? If I have you mistaken for another poster, I apologise.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:29 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:How long have you got? You could write an entire book based on the lamentable state of the country over the last few years.

By what measure are we not currently a basket case? What is your criteria for determining whether a developed country has turned into a basket case or not?
My life and the lives of people around me is no different to what it was 3 years ago. That's my measure. If you could write a book on it briefly say what five key things mean this country is already a basket case.
Last edited by taio on Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:31 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:I'm pretty sure it was you who was against a political party standing in a general election on the ticket of revoking article 50 and remaining in the EU? If I have you mistaken for another poster, I apologise.
I said I don't have a problem with a referendum. I said a manifesto sets out a vast range of policy intentions. Any further democratic process ought to be on the single issue of Brexit ie a referendum. What's wrong with that?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:55 pm

taio wrote:I said I don't have a problem with a referendum. I said a manifesto sets out a vast range of policy intentions. Any further democratic ought to be on the single issue of Brexit ie a referendum. What's wrong with that?
Yes, and I agree - we've been here before.(i.e had this very discussion).
My point just to oclaify again: If faced with no other option than no deal on Oct 31st, we would probably have to revoke article 50 in order to have this referendum, (unless of course the EU offer an extension,).
Revoking Article 50 isn't terminal, technically we can leave the EU anytime want in the future.
Simply walking out with nothing proper in place in about 4 months time is much more terminal. It would be really difficult for us to re-join and we would have lost all our current benefits.
(That's all I'm saying, but I respect your right to disagree).
Flint - having given all her reasons why she can't support no deal, and how damaging it would be, concluded that she would vote for it. That's some seriously muddled thinking, or she is just thinking about herself and retaining her seat. If she is so convinced that no deal would be bad for her constituents, why doesn't she get out and about and on her soap box and argue against it 24 / 7. This is what all principled Labour MPs should be doing. If they lose the argument then fair enough, their constituents can remove them.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:09 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Yes, and I agree - we've been here before.(i.e had this very discussion).
My point just to oclaify again: If faced with no other option than no deal on Oct 31st, we would probably have to revoke article 50 in order to have this referendum, (unless of course the EU offer an extension,).
Revoking Article 50 isn't terminal, technically we can leave the EU anytime want in the future.
Simply walking out with nothing proper in place in about 4 months time is much more terminal. It would be really difficult for us to re-join and we would have lost all our current benefits.
(That's all I'm saying, but I respect your right to disagree).
Flint - having given all her reasons why she can't support no deal, and how damaging it would be, concluded that she would vote for it. That's some seriously muddled thinking, or she is just thinking about herself and retaining her seat. If she is so convinced that no deal would be bad for her constituents, why doesn't she get out and about and on her soap box and argue against it 24 / 7. This is what all principled Labour MPs should be doing. If they lose the argument then fair enough, their constituents can remove them.
Temporarily or deferring A50 would be no issue to me. I recall both you and I said that would and needed to happen re March this year months prior
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:13 pm

taio wrote:Temporarily or deferring A50 would be no issue to me. I recall both you and I said that would and needed to happen re March this year months prior
Thanks.
Obviously we are both rather more consistent and pragmatic than Ms Flint.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:09 pm

taio wrote:My life and the lives of people around me is no different to what it was 3 years ago. That's my measure. If you could write a book on it briefly say what five key things mean this country is already a basket case.
Well we've had an MP physically assaulting a member of the public, and the next Prime Minister has had the police called to his partner's flat in the early hours because of a loud domestic incident. Two things that are pretty unprecedented. And that's just this week.

If you want to go back further, I'd highlight:

The complete breakdown and paralysis of Parliament.
The government suffering its biggest ever defeat in the house of commons.
The Prime Minister being forced out by an extreme faction of her party.
An MP running for leadership floating the idea of proroguing parliament (suspending democracy).
No Deal entering the mainstream conversation and being legitimised.
The undermining of the GFA as a result of this.
Threats to refuse to settle our financial obligations and effectively default on our debt.
The departure of several large multinational companies, along with the thousands of jobs that go with them.
The government having to bribe a small party of extremist loons in order to scrape a majority in parliament.
The calling of an election which lost the government majority.
Our diminished International reputation as a result of the never ending Brexit political crisis.
Trash talking the EU to the British press as though they're incapable of reading what's been said about them.
The promotion of ludicrous figures like Johnson and Davis to high profile cabinet positions.
The disgraceful way one of them endangered a British citizen in Iran.

You could go on and on.

Like yourself, my life and the people around me hasn't materially changed, but that is no measure of the state of the country.

If you don't think we're a basket case right now you're probably one of the few people who feel that way, and I actually envy you because of that! :lol:
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:15 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:Well we've had an MP physically assaulting a member of the public, and the next Prime Minister has had the police called to his partner's flat in the early hours because of a loud domestic incident. Two things that are pretty unprecedented. And that's just this week.

If you want to go back further, I'd highlight:

The complete breakdown and paralysis of Parliament.
The government suffering its biggest ever defeat in the house of commons.
The Prime Minister being forced out by an extreme faction of her party.
An MP running for leadership floating the idea of proroguing parliament (suspending democracy).
No Deal entering the mainstream conversation and being legitimised.
The undermining of the GFA as a result of this.
Threats to refuse to settle our financial obligations and effectively default on our debt.
The departure of several large multinational companies, along with the thousands of jobs that go with them.
The government having to bribe a small party of extremist loons in order to scrape a majority in parliament.
The calling of an election which lost the government majority.
Our diminished International reputation as a result of the never ending Brexit political crisis.
Trash talking the EU to the British press as though they're incapable of reading what's been said about them.
The promotion of ludicrous figures like Johnson and Davis to high profile cabinet positions.
The disgraceful way one of them endangered a British citizen in Iran.

You could go on and on.

Like yourself, my life and the people around me hasn't materially changed, but that is no measure of the state of the country.

If you don't think we're a basket case right now you're probably one of the few people who feel that way, and I actually envy you because of that! :lol:
Many of these are so weak or you are just far too sensitive to unimportant things going on around you. It's amusing that you list some of this stuff but fail to provide any balance by acknowledging the state and weakness of the opposition. Very partisan. I can't think of a more appropriate measure for judging government than people deciding whether it has had a good, bad or indifferent impact on their lives.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Burnley Ace » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:59 am

taio wrote:Many of these are so weak or you are just far too sensitive to unimportant things going on around you. It's amusing that you list some of this stuff but fail to provide any balance by acknowledging the state and weakness of the opposition.
Wouldn’t an extensive list of the weaknesses of the opposition just strengthen the argument that we are a basket case?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:41 am

See the GATT 24 myth was destroyed yesterday by.......Liam Fox (of all people)

Can't help thinking we are going to end up with a very slightly tweaked May agreement.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by taio » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:44 am

Burnley Ace wrote:Wouldn’t an extensive list of the weaknesses of the opposition just strengthen the argument that we are a basket case?
I wasn't referring to an extensive list. Just a short and simple point that the opposition is really poor. Replacing many of the points that in my view don't demonstrate we are a basket case.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:46 am

This is Jeremy Hunt spelling out the realities of a "No Deal" for jobs and families (while also saying he'd have no choice because 52% of the country voted for Brexit, even though he knows full well that not all of them voted for a No Deal)

https://twitter.com/Beany_1/status/1142693235527180288" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:15 am

Conference on alternative border arrangements today in NI.

Will be a big test to see if they can find a way to make it work so everyone is happy and something long term that people actually believe.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:56 am

An article by one of the guys leading today’s paper about Northern Ireland.

https://brexitcentral.com/a-hard-irish- ... t-outcome/

In essence he is saying what many of us Brexiteers have been saying for years - that our weak government has allowed the debate to be changed, so instead of saying no hard border they now say no checks at all, and if we went back to the original red lines then technological solutions become viable.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:58 am

Do parliament have to be any clearer there will not be a no-deal,https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48742881

Even Boris wouldn't risk an early election would he?

If the brexiteers aren't careful they will end up with no brexit at all.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:11 pm

taio wrote:Many of these are so weak or you are just far too sensitive to unimportant things going on around you. It's amusing that you list some of this stuff but fail to provide any balance by acknowledging the state and weakness of the opposition. Very partisan. I can't think of a more appropriate measure for judging government than people deciding whether it has had a good, bad or indifferent impact on their lives.
By all means, add the shambolic state of the opposition to the list. Like I said, many books will be written about the political crisis that Brexit has unleashed on the country. I don't have the time to list everything that's happened. Even If I did, I'd be wasting my time, because unless your life is impacted in some way, you won't consider them valid indicators anyway. It is perfectly possible for your life to remain exactly the same and the country to be embroiled in a deep crisis. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Also, just because your life hasn't been impacted, doesn't mean that many other people's lives haven't been.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:15 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:An article by one of the guys leading today’s paper about Northern Ireland.

https://brexitcentral.com/a-hard-irish- ... t-outcome/

In essence he is saying what many of us Brexiteers have been saying for years - that our weak government has allowed the debate to be changed, so instead of saying no hard border they now say no checks at all, and if we went back to the original red lines then technological solutions become viable.
Is he a speaker at the conference in NI today Crosspool?

Is he there even?

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