Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:17 am

Not sure you can call them "stupid" for believing some of the stuff

The £350 million for the NHS one sounds great, and of course its a good idea. The fact that there was never any intention of doing it is a massive whopper right there though.

But you can call them "stupid" for believing the ones about Turkey joining the EU. One google search would have shown that to be ********.

Nothing more shameful that using the plight of refugees to scare people into thinking we were about to be invaded by Syrians though. Thats something I'll never forget.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:20 am

Although I think we would be able to revoke it, have a second referendum, leave win, invoke it again and start afresh with two years. It's got to be a new phase of play.,

Thats the bit I'm not sure about to be honest. Very sure it wasn't designed to be used like that, so there might be legal issues with it. I'd certainly expect a legal challenge about doing that from the EU.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:23 am

gtclaret wrote:Wrong, parliament voted for a referendum 6-1 that included the vast majority of of those who cheered. What was disgraceful is that the elected representatives want to ignore the result.

We’ve had a General Election since that vote and again you are missing the point.
THEY ARE EXPRESSING AN OPINION.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:26 am

This (long post warning!) tells us exactly where we are and what all this means

https://twitter.com/akulith/status/1105976757499367424" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:43 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Just for those struggling to keep up

- We've had an advisory referendum, which we have to enact
- No Deal is off the table, but it was only advisory so can ignore it
- Farage is calling on the EU states to interfere with internal UK politics
- Labour have no intention of calling a 2nd ref because it's only the policy of their members and can be ignored, even though it's not advisory
- The PM continues to act like the 2017 GE never happened but that the only thing that counts is what she wants.
- ERG quite happy to stop the UK sovereign parliament from us not leaving, whatever the vote
- MPs now going to have a 3rd vote on exactly the same thing, despite it being a really bad idea to let the people vote more than once.

Think that covers it!

Total mess, and more and more damaging to democracy everyday

Clearly you have forgotten the manifesto pledge of both Labour and Tory to respect the referendum result and commit to leaving the SM and CU.

You could also add in the personal wishes of remainer MPs to do everything in their power to overturn the will of the public..

Might not fit in with your agenda however.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:50 am

Right_winger wrote:Clearly you have forgotten the manifesto pledge of both Labour and Tory to respect the referendum result and commit to leaving the SM and CU.

You could also add in the personal wishes of remainer MPs to do everything in their power to overturn the will of the public..

Might not fit in with your agenda however.

Labour didn't win. Their Manifesto never got enacted. If the Tories don't enact their Manifesto then that's their fault.

It's cute that you now give a **** about manifesto promises though. Makes a change for you right-wingers.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:51 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:If you think I'm hard left, god knows just how far right you are!

Well I was a shop steward at 2 large factories and had voted Labour pretty much all my life so have I moved to the right or has Labour took a train to the left ?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:57 am

dsr wrote:Time may tell. I suspect there are a lot more fanatical Brexiters than fanatical Remainers - after all, there can't be many people left who think the EU is a wonderful organisation that we would love to be in. It might depend whether Brexiters turn out in force for this second "people's vote" (I think perhaps you forgot about the one in 2016?) or whether they have given up in disgust. But unlike future general elections, there will be genuine pro-Brexit parties to vote for, and there will be a golden opportunity to vote for them in an election where (rightly or wrongly) many people see all votes, for whichever party, to be a wasted vote.

I doubt people (remainers in particular) would be voting for the mainstream parties if we hold EU elections in May.
It would essentially be a group of Pro - Brexit parties (as you correctly say) taking votes off each other against some form of "Remain Alliance". All those who have been pushing for a 2nd ref and presumably all remainers who are disillusioned with the politics in Parliament would take this one opportunity to influence things through the ballot box.
There would be huge promotion of the "Vote EU" Campaign, which would be supported by and financed by business if we are involved in these elections. [One of the reasons I suspect that May and Brexiteers are determined to get "out" before people get chance to vote in May]
(Of course I may be wrong).
Incidentally, (genuine question). Would Farage be fielding candidates against UKip?

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:03 am

Millions of normal folk will be feeling ignored and betrayed this morning that’s why over 10k a day are pre registering for Farages new Brexit Party here is the link
https://thebrexitparty.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is where it really starts !!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:13 am

Clearly you have forgotten the manifesto pledge of both Labour and Tory to respect the referendum result and commit to leaving the SM and CU.

You could also add in the personal wishes of remainer MPs to do everything in their power to overturn the will of the public..

Might not fit in with your agenda however.

What agenda?

The deal I would have voted for is as likely to get through as you lot are to have your fantasy brexit. This is where we are.

You lot really do have an issue with the actual realities of this it has to be said.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:19 am

Right_winger wrote:Clearly you have forgotten the manifesto pledge of both Labour and Tory to respect the referendum result and commit to leaving the SM and CU.

You could also add in the personal wishes of remainer MPs to do everything in their power to overturn the will of the public..

Might not fit in with your agenda however.

I’ve seen it said a few times that remainer MPs have sabotaged all this, but how exactly? All the major posts dealing with Brexit have been held by leavers, and the PM has leaned mostly toward the ERG in terms of the kind of Brexit she tried to negotiate. How is it remainders have managed to wreck it?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:21 am

REMOANER MPS KILLED THIS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHY YOU ARE A REMOANER. CAN'T SAY MORE AS I'M ABOUT TO GO ON THE RADIO TO RANT ABOUT REMOANERS USING STUFF I READ ON THE INTERNET POSTED BY MIKE FROM BURTON ON TRENT WHO IS A SALESMAN BUT WHO I TRUST MORE THAN AN EXPERT WHO HAS WORKED IN EU/UK LAW HIS ENTIRE LIFE.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 am

Where’s Ringo?

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:28 am

Stayingup wrote:Corbyn is a Marxit, dim, idiot. Julie is not. Shes just superb? Do you know to whom I am referring?

Aye, the woman who voted against extending Sunday trading because of church attendances isn't dim or an idiot.

In other news, when did anyone here last go to church?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:28 am

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Millions of normal folk will be feeling ignored and betrayed this morning that’s why over 10k a day are pre registering for Farages new Brexit Party here is the link
https://thebrexitparty.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is where it really starts !!

Where what starts??

His Ukip party barely got any traction in parliament and the way the system is rigged in favour of the two main crappy parties, I can't see either this one or that independent lot getting anywhere.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:30 am

You can register as D.Duck and K.Kong, and as many times as you like as well.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:32 am

An early GE is probably the only now the only way to get a clean brexit. Its a high risk strategy though.
Remain would probably win a second referendum which solves nothing as it would be 1 all.

In a GE it would probably be tory with a managed no deal if the EU won't play ball v Labour with the softest of soft brexits and a ref to confirm. That on its own may be close, but if you mix it up with the thought of pm Corbyn then the tories would win, especially if May has gone.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:35 am

I don't like Corbyn, but I held my nose and voted for him last time because the Conservative tactics were as clear as day.

Nothing has changed in there is another GE, and that is the problem, it wouldn't solve the problem we have.

There is a deal there, it need the Brexit purists to back it and it might well get through.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:36 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not sure you can call them "stupid" for believing some of the stuff

The £350 million for the NHS one sounds great, and of course its a good idea. The fact that there was never any intention of doing it is a massive whopper right there though.

But you can call them "stupid" for believing the ones about Turkey joining the EU. One google search would have shown that to be ********.

Nothing more shameful that using the plight of refugees to scare people into thinking we were about to be invaded by Syrians though. Thats something I'll never forget.

That wont be easy remembering that will it? Remembering isn’t your forte, seeing as you seem to have forgotten the actual truth behind the £350m to the NHS claim. To remind you, it was merely a suggestion of what COULD happen to that money if we weren’t spunking it away in Brussels. Don’t let that stop your constant skriking tho....doesn’t matter where the money ends up, as long as it ends up HERE.

Prove to me it’s a massive whopper. Prove to me that money definitely ISNT going to the NHS. You can’t, so stop trying to change things to suit your argument. Surely the important thing is British taxpayers money is spent on OUR interests at home before funding good knows whatever good idea Brussels comes up with next.

Along with IT, you have become the most predictably boring and repetitive poster on here. A marvellous feat. Well done.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:38 am

AndrewJB wrote:I’ve seen it said a few times that remainer MPs have sabotaged all this, but how exactly? All the major posts dealing with Brexit have been held by leavers, and the PM has leaned mostly toward the ERG in terms of the kind of Brexit she tried to negotiate. How is it remainders have managed to wreck it?

Really?

Davies, johnson and Raab resigned because they disagreed with the way brexit was being handled. The likes of Sourby Hammond greening etc have made it impossible. If anything may has sided with remain as her deal makes it almost impossible ro leave the CU.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:39 am

What's the difference between Farage 'colluding' with EU officials and people like Dominic Grieve having meetings with French officials?

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:48 am

RMutt wrote:Some toff little Englander starts a party because he doesn’t like Europe and wants us out. He manages to get some of the right wing press on his side who tell us stories about the threat of immigration and straight bananas. This populist party becomes a threat to the Tories who normally sweep up this kind of support. To try to deal with this threat the Tories offer the British people a refererendum on leaving Europe that they don’t excpect wiill go the way of leave but will shut up the deessenting voices in their own party and bring the voters back to the fold. Unfortunately it backfires. The various suiters to the leadership of the Tory party muddy the waters with their own sub plot agendas and because of lies and misinformation, the people vote, probably against their own interests, to leave. Oh dear what does the Tory party do now? It continues to argue among itself and makes a right mess of the leave negotiations. So we end up in a fine pickle and who’s fault is it? The Labour Party’s of course.

He doesn't dislike Europe, he dislikes the EU. We cant leave Europe unless God relocated Britain to the Pacific or other ocean.
If it's just a trait of a right winger backed by a right wing press, how come so many politicians of both main parties, campaigned for Leave. How come Corbyn has been so vociferous in the past about the problems of being in the EU. How come so many hard core socialists voted Leave.
It isn't a Tory party problem, it's a Westminster problem, but the Tories are suffering because they are the present main party, without a majority. Labour will suffer, because they would rather score political points by sticking a knife in the Tories, than pursue what their supporters wanted them to do. Theres an excuse for the division in the Tory ranks there is no excuse for Labours betrayal.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:53 am

Looking like a long delay is in store. All going to plan for those who don’t want Brexit.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:57 am

If we are to be forced into a ref or GE it would be helpful for leave in the long run if the EU refused an extension and we were forced to recind A50 for now. The wrath at the EU would be incredible. Ditto at those ruling put no deal prematurely.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:01 am

bobinho wrote:That wont be easy remembering that will it? Remembering isn’t your forte, seeing as you seem to have forgotten the actual truth behind the £350m to the NHS claim. To remind you, it was merely a suggestion of what COULD happen to that money if we weren’t spunking it away in Brussels.

Ok then, if someone were collecting for charity with a picture of a guide dog on their collecting bucket along with the words saying:
'The money you give could go to the guide dogs for the blind'.

I'll bet you'd be deeply unhappy if the money went elsewhere, even though they used the word 'COULD'.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:04 am

bobinho wrote:That wont be easy remembering that will it? Remembering isn’t your forte, seeing as you seem to have forgotten the actual truth behind the £350m to the NHS claim. To remind you, it was merely a suggestion of what COULD happen to that money if we weren’t spunking it away in Brussels. Don’t let that stop your constant skriking tho....doesn’t matter where the money ends up, as long as it ends up HERE.

Prove to me it’s a massive whopper. Prove to me that money definitely ISNT going to the NHS. You can’t, so stop trying to change things to suit your argument. Surely the important thing is British taxpayers money is spent on OUR interests at home before funding good knows whatever good idea Brussels comes up with next.

Along with IT, you have become the most predictably boring and repetitive poster on here. A marvellous feat. Well done.

Being repetitive and boring is perfectly fine when you're right, and people who are wrong keep posting their dumb nonsense.

I love to say "I told you so", so, I told you so. We all told you so. You ****** up.

keith1879 · Post by **keith1879** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:07 am

Right_winger wrote:Clearly you have forgotten the manifesto pledge of both Labour and Tory to respect the referendum result and commit to leaving the SM and CU.

You could also add in the personal wishes of remainer MPs to do everything in their power to overturn the will of the public..

Might not fit in with your agenda however.

That's a reasonable point. However in a situation where both main parties have promised the same thing as just one part of a much wider agenda for all aspects of running the country it can't really be said that we had a choice. The best way to find out what the public want on a specific question is to ask them (not necessarily in a referendum).

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:16 am

Labour leavers have tabled an ammendment to kill a second referendum, signed by the DUP and tories, over 120 in total.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:18 am

Whats the support though past them?

Bearing in mind that the media where saying how great Malthouse was and that it would unite the parliament, and it lost by a landslide.

At least its trying to work out what is acceptable and what isn't to the UK parliament though.

Any other amendments Andy?

And I'm guessing these are advisory as well?

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:31 am

Parliament seems to be insisting on a customs union before approving the withdrawal agreement. If it is possible to negotiate a customs union AND an independent immigration policy then we might have a way forward.

I do understand that this would rule out an independent international trade policy but that is a price that might have to be paid to ensure no hard border in Ireland.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:37 am

As i said yesterday if no deal is ruled out it is only fair to rule out the other extreme i.e. a second referendum.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:38 am

Right_winger wrote:Looking like a long delay is in store. All going to plan for those who don’t want Brexit.

Dry your eyes, mate.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:42 am

As i said yesterday if no deal is ruled out it is only fair to rule out the other extreme i.e. a second referendum.

I've checked with Hansard, and there isn't a precedent for a bloke from Burnley overruling parliament on this.

If Parliament wants to take a 2nd ref off the table in an advisory amendment, then it can. If it doesn't, then it won't.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:43 am

Farage asking for other countries to intervene in UK politics. Be interesting to see how you lot defend this.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status ... 1655588864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:45 am

Spijed wrote:Ok then, if someone were collecting for charity with a picture of a guide dog on their collecting bucket along with the words saying:
'The money you give could go to the guide dogs for the blind'.

I'll bet you'd be deeply unhappy if the money went elsewhere, even though they used the word 'COULD'.

If it went to Belgium to fund something there, yes I WOULD be unhappy. But if it went to the RSPCA, or Cancer Research UK, then it wouldn’t really be a problem.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:48 am

Prove to me it’s a massive whopper.

Jesus.

Okay.

Its the Conservative Party.

Austerity.

Ring any bells?

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:51 am

And can someone explain to IT that I can’t read his incessant bullshit due to him being on the prick list. Sorry, ignore list.

Obliged to ya...

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:51 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Farage asking for other countries to intervene in UK politics. Be interesting to see how you lot defend this.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status ... 1655588864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The same way you lot defended grieve and soubry going over there.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:53 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Whats the support though past them?

Bearing in mind that the media where saying how great Malthouse was and that it would unite the parliament, and it lost by a landslide.

At least its trying to work out what is accuieptable and what isn't to the UK parliament though.

Any other amendments Andy?

And I'm guessing these are advisory as well?

There's quite a few labour plus dup and tories, safe to say it's not government policy so the will vote against as well.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:54 am

Oh? You'll have to back that one up I'm afraid.

Bloke is a hypocrite and a traitor, but he doesn't like immigrants and loves Brexit. So he's ok.

Got it!

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:54 am

Did Farage turn up to the European Parliament? I’m surprised anyone recognised him.

Really though, he must be loving all this delay - he would have disappeared if either leaving was easy or remain had won by a big margin. Everything since has given him a reason to keep showing his face.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:55 am

There's quite a few labour plus dup and tories, safe to say it's not government policy so the will vote against as well.

Basically, everyone who put their name on it will vote for it, but nobody else will.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:55 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Jesus.

Okay.

Its the Conservative Party.

Austerity.

Ring any bells?

Oh good, a game where we just throw random **** out there. Here goes...

It’s the Labour Party.

There’s no money left (after 13 years of labour rule)

Tony Bliar (sp)

Ring any bells?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:56 am

Waste of time Bobinho, you just keep seeing it everywhere anyway.

Didn't work at all with Ringo, and you end up missing them as well!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:57 am

But that is silly Bobinho

I'll assume you not a Tory ok? (apologies if you are!)

Austerity is cutting services, its not putting in £350 million a week!

I mean, come on!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:59 am

bobinho wrote:And can someone explain to IT that I can’t read his incessant bullshit due to him being on the prick list. Sorry, ignore list.

Obliged to ya...

Can someone tell bobinho that when i'm replying to his dumb **** it's not for his benefit. It's for the benefit of everyone else to know that the dumb **** he's posting is dumb ****.

android · Post by **android** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:00 am

I understand why Remainers want to Remain but I have never understood their obsession with the bus. Lancs - it's just not credible that you (or anyone else on here) thought that the Leave campaign would seize control of the government (many of them were Labour MPS or not MPs at all!) on 24 June 2016 AND that we would stop paying money to the EU on 24 June 2016.

Anyway this looks to be heading for a slugfest so I will probably be ignored. The bus obsession is weird though.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:01 am

Its no more an obsession than leavers banging on about the EU having control of "sovereignty and laws" is it?

And the slogans about refugees and the NHS definitely had an effect. That is unarguable.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:04 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its no more an obsession than leavers banging on about the EU having control of "sovereignty and laws" is it?

And the slogans about refugees and the NHS definitely had an effect. That is unarguable.

Errm. I think the correct term for them was "rapefugees".

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:07 am

Right_winger wrote: You could also add in the personal wishes of remainer MPs to do everything in their power to overturn the will of the public..

Might not fit in with your agenda however.

48.1% of those who voted did not want to leave. Whichever way you cut it that's a very significant percentage. In a democracy you have the right to oppose policies that you do not agree with.

The suggestion that those who chose to remain should just shut up and walk quietly into the sunset, is in itself, undemocratic. We have a voice and we will continue to use it to oppose a policy we consider to be absolute folly.

The fact that the leave camp is in split into factions and in complete disarray is not our problem. Physician heal thyself.