Cheerful wrote:The wishes of The People in the 2017 GE were that we should not leave without a deal.
That basically the backstop is nonsense. There are loads of laws for Northern Ireland, that they do not share with the rest of the UK. They just pick and chose. E.g. abortion etc.Devils_Advocate wrote:What has Ian Hislop said?
When 5 million labour voters, voted Leave in 2016, were they "weak in character" so they were conned?AndrewJB wrote:The people I've called stupid are the politicians who failed to deliver what they promised. Either stupid, or they lied to you.
Anyone can be scammed. The con artist looks for the weaknesses in your character and plays on them. There is no shame in being scammed, just like there is no shame in being mugged or your house broken into. You are the unfortunate victim and it could happen to anyone. What I've been trying to point out with this is how the narrative has changed from being positive about getting a great deal (and how anyone suggesting differently was scaremongering) to now looking at leaving without a deal at all. From having a great relationship with our European partners, to cutting all ties. This is a huge shift.
I've said before that I despised the way Cameron and Osborne campaigned for remain, using fear and negativity. Other remain parties - Greens, Labour, SNP - were a lot more positive.
If we just left the EU, and stayed within the other structures (even if we did this with the eye to cutting more ties in the future) then there would be less disruption, but they've now shifted things to the hardest possible brexit, and the government study shows that this will bring issues. It's hardly alarmist to point this out, and it doesn't make one a conspiracy theorist to wonder why things have been steered this way. The Tories have form for using a crisis to push through unpalatable legislation (austerity?).
Have you got a link please? I like Hislop and enjoy listening to his take on things (agree he isnt full of any sh*t) but Ive searched the internet and cant find any reference of Hislop talking about the backstop.elwaclaret wrote:That basically the backstop is nonsense. There are loads of laws for Northern Ireland, that they do not share with the rest of the UK. They just pick and chose. E.g. abortion etc.
He’s a remainer but he doesn’t do apolitical bullshit
Fifty-five areas of co-operation - all of which (except flights for one year) come to an abrupt end on 1st November. This is what I mean by “cutting all ties”Colburn_Claret wrote:Nobody has mentioned cutting all ties, just you.
We'll still trade with the EU just under different terms.
Boris has already said any EU nationals residing and working in Britain are welcome to stay. Any more that are thinking of coming can also come, providing they meet a points style criteria , similar to Australia. You're acting like a typical Remainer exaggerating myths.
Everyone has weaknesses in their character.RingoMcCartney wrote:When 5 million labour voters, voted Leave in 2016, were they "weak in character" so they conned?
Yes or No?
When the same 5 million voted Labour voted labour in 2017 , " weak in character " so they were conned?
Yes or No?
If remain had won 52 to 48, because we were already in the EU, the result would have been implemented immediately. That's democracy.bfcmik wrote:Farage - (when he thought Remain was going to narrowly win): "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way" And so it is.
Rees-Mogg - "We could have 2 referendums. As it happens, it might make more sense to have the second referendum after the negotiation is completed." Pains me to say it but he could be right, you know!
Can’t do any more than suggest the last weeks Have I Got News for you... sorry can’t even tell you the episode, but it has been shown in the last few days... caught my attention though.Devils_Advocate wrote:Have you got a link please? I like Hislop and enjoy listening to his take on things (agree he isnt full of any sh*t) but Ive searched the internet and cant find any reference of Hislop talking about the backstop.
Nearest thing I could see was an express article by a Brexit Party MEP which matches some of your post and within it the Express linked a story about a 2003 anti EU rant by Hislop coming to light but I assume it cant be this story you are on about?
That's an answer to a different question Andrew.AndrewJB wrote:Everyone has weaknesses in their character.
Ok sounds very much like that 2003 clip from HIGNFY which is doing the rounds in the media though obviously the Backstop isnt mentioned.elwaclaret wrote:Can’t do any more than suggest the last weeks Have I Got News for you... sorry can’t even tell you the episode, but it has been shown in the last few days... caught my attention though.
Edit - think it’s a couple of years since first broadcast though.
We joined in 73. The 75 referendum was to stay or leave.RingoMcCartney wrote:The 1975 referendum was to join the Common Market. It has morphed into the European union. But I'll let that go. The 1975 referendum result was implemented. That's democracy.
The 2016 referendum result is yet to be implemented. That's democracy denial.
By all means, campaign for another referendum. But not before the 2016 Peoples Vote is implemented, then campaign to rejoin the EU.
True. The point I was making was ,that the result was actually implementedSiddo wrote:We joined in 73. The 75 referendum was to stay or leave.
Could be I just saw it was on and better than the alternatives lolDevils_Advocate wrote:Ok sounds very much like that 2003 clip from HIGNFY which is doing the rounds in the media though obviously the Backstop isnt mentioned.
You could argue that a lot of people in 2016 voted to leave with a deal, as every single politician told them they would get, and an easy, amazing one at that, which has now morphed into the complete absence of any deal with potentially grave ramifications. But that's a bit of a side issue to be fair.RingoMcCartney wrote:True. The point I was making was ,that the result was actually implemented
The 2016 referendum hasn't.
You could argue that the British People never actually voted to "join" what morphed into the EU. They only actually voted to remain in the Common Market, having already been taken into it. But that's a bit of a side issue to be fair.
Could be but probably you saw the express article which is pretty much what your post describes, saw the Hislop link to it and thought the article was based on his comments when really it was not related and was the opinion of a Brexit MEP instead.elwaclaret wrote:Could be I just saw it was on and better than the alternatives lol
I fully understand you point, and even have some sympathy for it. This became an issue as soon as May became leader... as long as I live a decision I will never understand. One can only assume they thought it the path of least resistance....CombatClaret wrote:You could argue that a lot of people in 2016 voted to leave with a deal, as every single politician told them they would get, and an easy, amazing one at that, which has now morphed into the complete absence of any deal with potentially grave ramifications. But that's a bit of a side issue to be fair.
Well no, it’s the existing position and therefore not ‘implementing the result’ would have been impossible.RingoMcCartney wrote:If remain had won 52 to 48, because we were already in the EU, the result would have been implemented immediately. That's democracy.
Devils_Advocate wrote:Could be but probably you saw the express article which is pretty much what your post describes, saw the Hislop link to it and thought the article was based on his comments when really it was not related and was the opinion of a Brexit MEP instead.
We cant be sure but sounds a lot more likely to me
Yet when it came to the possibility of leaving without a deal on 29th March 2019 the same set of MPs (give or take a few) voted not to so it didn’t happen.RingoMcCartney wrote:And 498 of the MPs that were returned to parliament following that GE , voted to trigger Article 50. That put into law that the uk would leave the EU on 29th March 2019. WITH OR WITHOUT A DEAL.
No I don’t really do scouring the papers, I’m aware of the different views they hold and that is about it. I find journalistic license far to liberally applied to form views based on them, unless they are pointed out for discussion. It was definitely a recently broadcast episode, that I saw.Devils_Advocate wrote:Could be but probably you saw the express article which is pretty much what your post describes, saw the Hislop link to it and thought the article was based on his comments when really it was not related and was the opinion of a Brexit MEP instead.
We cant be sure but sounds a lot more likely to me
The tory manifesto said , on page 35 I think . "No deal is better than a bad deal." Every sitting Tory MP was elected on that basis.CombatClaret wrote:You could argue that a lot of people in 2016 voted to leave with a deal, as every single politician told them they would get, and an easy, amazing one at that, which has now morphed into the complete absence of any deal with potentially grave ramifications. But that's a bit of a side issue to be fair.
Don’t see the relevance... and I’ve attempted to provide a reference when asked. But if you feel superior good for you, old boy.Greenmile wrote:Sounds a bit like the time Elwa saw a documentary (which nobody else appears to have seen) which proved austerity was just a result of the Tories failing to realise that some war debt repayment was due to end.
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... &start=629" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pure pedantry.martin_p wrote:Well no, it’s the existing position and therefore not ‘implementing the result’ would have been impossible.
The relevance is that there appear to be two TV shows you’ve dreamed about and mistaken for reality, which you’ve then come on here to tell everyone about whilst being singularly unable to link to any supporting evidence for the existence of said shows.elwaclaret wrote:Don’t see the relevance... and I’ve attempted to provide a reference when asked. But if you feel superior good for you, old boy.
And when the EU looks at that, it emboldens their intransigence and makes their willingness to having a mutually beneficial trade deal even less likely.martin_p wrote:Yet when it came to the possibility of leaving without a deal on 29th March 2019 the same set of MPs (give or take a few) voted not to so it didn’t happen.
...and you reference everything you say on a message board? I watched a programme, when asked referenced it as broadcast probably on the BBC in the last week.... hence available on I-player or Dave at worst. I see no reason to reference any further, but then neither do you because you already know better, so... happy daysGreenmile wrote:The relevance is that there appear to be two TV shows you’ve dreamed about and mistaken for reality, which you’ve then come on here to tell everyone about whilst being singularly unable to link to any supporting evidence for the existence of said shows.
Yet the only thing a Google search brings up is the clip DA references which is from 2003 and doesn’t mention the backstop, so why did you claim that he said ...elwaclaret wrote:...and you reference everything you say on a message board? I watched a programme, when asked referenced it as broadcast probably on the BBC in the last week.... hence available on I-player or Dave at worst. I see no reason to reference any further, but then neither do you because you already know better, so... happy days
elwaclaret wrote:That basically the backstop is nonsense...
Ok...Greenmile wrote:Yet the only thing a Google search brings up is the clip DA references which is from 2003 and doesn’t mention the backstop, so why did you claim that he said ...
Either you imagined he said that, or you’re just making it up. Just like the weird war debt repayment thing you were adamant you’d seen.
Ok you imagined it, or ok you lied?elwaclaret wrote:Ok...
Ok. You mean nothing more to me than a name on a message board to me, yet you expect me to spend my evening researching something I commented on chat room / messageboard? Out of courtesy I recollected to the best of my ability where I’d seen it. If you would like my professional research rate you will find I’m competitive, though warn you my specialism is historical rather than political research.Greenmile wrote:Ok you imagined it, or ok you lied?
Thems are the rules as laid out by the Turtle himself.elwaclaret wrote:Ok. You mean nothing more to me than a name on a message board to me, yet you expect me to spend my evening researching something I commented on chat room / messageboard? Out of courtesy I recollected to the best of my ability where I’d seen it. If you would like my professional research rate you will find I’m competitive, though warn you my specialism is historical rather than political research.
You made it up didn’t you? Why would a recent episode of hignfy not come up on a Google search? I don’t need to pay you anything to type “Ian Hislop Brexit backstop” into Google.elwaclaret wrote:Ok. You mean nothing more to me than a name on a message board to me, yet you expect me to spend my evening researching something I commented on chat room / messageboard? Out of courtesy I recollected to the best of my ability where I’d seen it. If you would like my professional research rate you will find I’m competitive, though warn you my specialism is historical rather than political research.
No evidence on the entire internet + unwilling to countenance the idea you might be mistaken = you’ve lied.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Thems are the rules as laid out by the Turtle himself.
No links = you've lied
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Thems are the rules as laid out by the Turtle himself.
No links = you've lied
I alright, cos I’ve nothing better to do than lie about politics on a football... nay Burnley fan site... 
Unfortunately not every interview I hear on the radio or see on TV leaves a trail on the internet, so I've just found it easier not to mention them on here, it ain't worth the aggro of being called varying names.Greenmile wrote:No evidence on the entire internet + unwilling to countenance the idea you might be mistaken = you’ve lied.
Here are a couple of links to prove the truth of this statementelwaclaret wrote:
I think Wrongo would call this ‘pedantry’, in Wrongo speak ‘the facts not backing up my view’. Although i’ll probably get pulled up for pedantry for pointing out the incorrect use of the word ‘pedantry’.Greenmile wrote:You made it up didn’t you? Why would a recent episode of hignfy not come up on a Google search? I don’t need to pay you anything to type “Ian Hislop Brexit backstop” into Google.
Why not just admit you misremembered or weren’t watching properly? You’d look a lot less stupid if you did - much like the last time you made up a documentary you’d seen (which nobody else saw and couldn’t be found on the internet either).
All I expect of you or anyone else on here is not to lie about stuff, or to accept that you will be pulled up as and when you do
If you can’t find a clip from a recent BBC programme where someone is talking about Brexit, or the fact that austerity was solely the result of an accounting error, then you might want to try this cool new site I’ve found called Google.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Unfortunately not every interview I hear on the radio or see on TV leaves a trail on the internet, so I've just found it easier not to mention them on here, it ain't worth the aggro of being called varying names.
Don’t know how else to say it... ok.Greenmile wrote:Here are a couple of links to prove the truth of this statement
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... &start=629" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... tart=10900" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You can get video on the internet nowadays. Happy to help.Darthlaw wrote:Do they keep a full transcript of all TV programmes on Google, or just quotes related to Brexit?
Just wondering.
Ok you’ve nothing better to do than lie about politics on a football... nay Burnley fan site?elwaclaret wrote:Don’t know how else to say it... ok.
Rest assured, any quote from an avowed remainer that supports a Brexiteer position will be on the Internet in seconds and there forever. The same will be true with positions reversed.Darthlaw wrote:Do they keep a full transcript of all TV programmes on Google, or just quotes related to Brexit?
Just wondering so as to point rows in the right direction.
I’d look at recent Have I Got (old) News for you, recently shown. Think that would be easiliest, and entertaining too.Darthlaw wrote:Do they keep a full transcript of all TV programmes on Google, or just quotes related to Brexit?
Just wondering so as to point rows in the right direction.
So he just needs to sit through all the episodes of HIGNFY to find the correct episode just to appease you?Greenmile wrote:You can get video on the internet nowadays. Happy to help.
Or read the Express and pretend that Hislop said what some Brexit MEP has written.elwaclaret wrote:I’d look at recent Have I Got (old) News for you, recently shown. Think that would be easiliest, and entertaining too.
No. He just needs to do what I did and Google “Ian Hislop Brexit backstop”. It’s really not difficult. Google links to videos as well as text.Darthlaw wrote:So he just needs to sit through all the episodes of HIGNFY to find the correct episode just to appease you?
Is that you admitting you’ve made a mistake when referring him to google or have you lied?
Ok so in that case the interview I heard on 5live today about the person with 9 personalities isn't online as yet and yeah I've had a quick look because I've posted about it..Greenmile wrote:If you can’t find a clip from a recent BBC programme where someone is talking about Brexit, or the fact that austerity was solely the result of an accounting error, then you might want to try this cool new site I’ve found called Google.
Assumption.... Ah that explains a lot. I cannot remember the last time I saw an Express, and I have never once visited their site other than through a link on here.Greenmile wrote:Or read the Express and pretend that Hislop said what some Brexit MEP has written.