Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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BennyD
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BennyD » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:09 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Under EU rules a person moving from one country to another has to have health insurance and cannot apply for out of work benefits for five years. Why do you think there’s a European health card? People who come here from outside the EU (and which has nothing to do with h our membership of the EU) pay thousands for health insurance. The poor state of our NHS is the fault of our government.

You say you don’t need the media to tell you Corbyn is incompetent to know he is, so how did you discover this in the first place? What evidence did you seduce this from, and if competence is so important to you, how do you reconcile that with our current PMs track record of incompetence?
That’s all very well in theory but very few people are refused treatment on the NHS hence the phenomena of ‘health tourism’. They may get billed but not pay, but they are never asked to pay before treatment. Of course it has something to do with our membership of the EU; all countries in the EU are deemed to be ‘safe’ and are obliged to accept people who can’t, or won’t, prove their Nationality. The EU bang on about protecting their borders but then allows anybody in who pleads hardship. I think you’ll find that anybody applying for benefits will get them and I assume that’s why so many refugees will pay to cross the channel.

The fact Corbyn spent the vast majority of his very unremarkable political ‘career’ on the far fringes of the Labour Party, indicates his lack of ambition and political nouse and the fact he was unexpectedly propelled to being the opposition leader by Momentum also indicates that he is being used as a figurehead by extremists/activists, and I don’t need to read the papers to work that one out.

Mock BJ all you want but there are very few UK politicians who could have got to a deal with the opposition and the ambushes placed in front of them. Corbyn certainly couldn’t have, even when he might have wanted to, if he ever did.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:03 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:You are obviously missing the point. If you don't like the Tories track record, don't vote Tory. Corbyn and Abbott keep telling everyone that Labour will win the next elections, so that would make the Tories track record irrelevant.
Okay - so when Darthlaw asked what workers rights a post Brexit Tory government might cut, I should have responded that it doesn’t matter because...oh look...a dancing dog?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BennyD » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:17 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:You are obviously missing the point. If you don't like the Tories track record, don't vote Tory. Corbyn and Abbott keep telling everyone that Labour will win the next elections, so that would make the Tories track record irrelevant.
Those two ugly idiots agreed to f*ck each other which shows the decision making capabilities of them both. Who knows, perhaps that’s why they want to f*ck the rest of us as well.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:40 pm

On what could have been our biggest day in recent history in Parliament Diane Abbott falls asleep.


Say everything we need to know about her.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bfcboyo » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:41 pm

Great we will probably leave with no deal on the 31st after EU reject extension.

Watch this space.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:50 pm

BennyD wrote:That’s all very well in theory but very few people are refused treatment on the NHS hence the phenomena of ‘health tourism’. They may get billed but not pay, but they are never asked to pay before treatment. Of course it has something to do with our membership of the EU; all countries in the EU are deemed to be ‘safe’ and are obliged to accept people who can’t, or won’t, prove their Nationality. The EU bang on about protecting their borders but then allows anybody in who pleads hardship. I think you’ll find that anybody applying for benefits will get them and I assume that’s why so many refugees will pay to cross the channel.

The fact Corbyn spent the vast majority of his very unremarkable political ‘career’ on the far fringes of the Labour Party, indicates his lack of ambition and political nouse and the fact he was unexpectedly propelled to being the opposition leader by Momentum also indicates that he is being used as a figurehead by extremists/activists, and I don’t need to read the papers to work that one out.

Mock BJ all you want but there are very few UK politicians who could have got to a deal with the opposition and the ambushes placed in front of them. Corbyn certainly couldn’t have, even when he might have wanted to, if he ever did.
How can it be the fault of the EU if we don't charge back to the country of origin for NHS treatment for EU citizens? I looked up the cost of "health tourism" and fact check said it's about .3% of the NHS budget. That's not a lot. The NHS is obviously strict enough that some people who actually have rights to treatment are denied it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-438186 ... -treatment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For myself, I'd rather have a prime minister who wasn't motivated by personal ambition, but public service. And that is clearly not Johnson. I can't see why anyone could be impressed by the deal, when you consider the concessions Johnson made to get it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:55 pm

BennyD wrote:Those two ugly idiots agreed to f*ck each other which shows the decision making capabilities of them both. Who knows, perhaps that’s why they want to f*ck the rest of us as well.
I agree completely, I'm not arguing for a Labour government, I'm saying that this countries policies are controlled by the government, who are elected by the people. If we end up with a government of whichever colour, that doesn't protect workers rights, or protect the environment, then it's not the fault of Brexit, just the fault of the electorate.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:59 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Okay - so when Darthlaw asked what workers rights a post Brexit Tory government might cut, I should have responded that it doesn’t matter because...oh look...a dancing dog?
No, you should have said that you have it on the authority of Corbyn and Abbott, that the Tories won't be the government post Brexit.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:02 pm

BennyD wrote:Those two ugly idiots agreed to f*ck each other which shows the decision making capabilities of them both.
So are you saying people who are ugly can't make meaningful decisions?

There are many people who have deformities, who are more than capable of making the right choice.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:04 pm

I just want to make a point about workers personal protective equipment.

I found the rules stricter in both China and Thailand, which to be fair came as a massive surprise to me.

So let’s not think that the EU or the UK lead the way on all workers rights.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:09 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I just want to make a point about workers personal protective equipment.

I found the rules stricter in both China and Thailand, which to be fair came as a massive surprise to me.

So let’s not think that the EU or the UK lead the way on all workers rights.
We are the only country in history to host an Olympics and NOT have someone die building it.
It's not red tape, it's protection.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:11 pm

Corbyn likes to put forward a front of being for the workers.

Notice how he is very careful to keep his wife well away from British politics.

Allegedly her company pays Fairtrade manufacturers 93p for 500grms of coffee, whilst charging £10 for it in the uk.

He may like to look like he not into capitalism in his political life but in his private life it’s apparently ok.

Just as Jo Swinson is ok with her husbands firm getting 3.8 million from the EU. No wonder she wants no deal.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:12 pm

CombatClaret wrote:We are the only country in history to host an Olympics and NOT have someone die building it.
It's not red tape, it's protection.

Not sure I get your point.

Your saying we have no deaths on building sites??

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:15 pm

B4D0AECD-ABC2-498F-B33E-E40B40D9840F.png
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Construction injuries have been similar for several years.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:24 pm

EU are saying they’ll grant an extension if requested.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bfcboyo » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:29 pm

martin_p wrote:EU are saying they’ll grant an extension if requested.
Doesn't every other state have to agree. Boris has a back door plan.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:33 pm

He said in Parliament he was not sending the letter.

Well not in so many words, but when sat down and being heckled he was shaking his head saying he didn’t have to.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:He said in Parliament he was not sending the letter.

Well not in so many words, but when sat down and being heckled he was shaking his head saying he didn’t have to.

Right wing leaders apparently don't have to obey the law.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:35 pm

AndyClaret wrote:There's all ready been several votes on no deal, all heavily defeated.
Which in no way attempts to answer my question about how you know what the numbers will be in FUTURE.
Simple answer is that neither you nor I can.
And as I also mentioned what happens if trade talks collapse or there is insufficient progress by the end of 2020?
And - following on from the above point - why would hardliners like Baker, Bone and Francois say they will vote for it unless "no deal" remains a possibility?
Johnson has obviously promised one group something and the ERG something else.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Murger » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:36 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Right wing leaders apparently don't have to obey the law.
Neither do 'left wing' protesters it seems.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:39 pm

Murger wrote:Neither do 'left wing' protesters it seems.
They're being arrested, aren't they? Quote me again when Boris is carted off in cuffs and then tell me that he's being made to obey the law.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Murger » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:44 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:They're being arrested, aren't they? Quote me again when Boris is carted off in cuffs and then tell me that he's being made to obey the law.
No idea. I haven't read anything that says those who shouted abuse at people walking through the street (1 with their kid) were being arrested.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:45 pm

The UK ambassador to the EU is sending the letter, not Boris.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:45 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:Doesn't every other state have to agree. Boris has a back door plan.
Apparently they pretty much agreed it at the summit on Thursday. Even Macron, who has been anti extension in public, didn’t dissent in private.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:46 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Not sure I get your point.

Your saying we have no deaths on building sites??
I'm just saying we have very good regulations and protections in this country.
And a no deaths Olympics is a fine example.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:49 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Right wing leaders apparently don't have to obey the law.
Left wing leaders can also ignore a vote of no confidence !

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:50 pm

Murger wrote:No idea. I haven't read anything that says those who shouted abuse at people walking through the street (1 with their kid) were being arrested.
Do you think if the police were called that they would be allowed to continue to commit that crime?

Do you think Boris Johnson refusing to obey the law by not asking for an extension will face legal trouble?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:50 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Left wing leaders can also ignore a vote of no confidence !
When'd that happen?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bfcboyo » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:53 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:When'd that happen?
When'd Bozza invited the challenge.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:55 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:When'd Bozza invited the challenge.
That doesn't sound like he ignored it then, does it, genius?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Murger » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Do you think if the police were called that they would be allowed to continue to commit that crime?

Do you think Boris Johnson refusing to obey the law by not asking for an extension will face legal trouble?
Have you got proof that those who shouted abuse have been arrested?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:58 pm

CombatClaret wrote:I'm just saying we have very good regulations and protections in this country.
And a no deaths Olympics is a fine example.
And I am pointing out that employee protection was stricter in both countries I visited than here or the EU.

When walking round the Thailand plant I found it very amusing that walking along the anodising plant. A new installation with extraction so good there was no smell of chemicals at all.

A very small young Thai female graduate stopped me walking along it without a carbon mask, even after me insisting it was not required.

No where in the UK would that be required, nor do I think it needs to be.

We have got loads better but they have gone further than we do.

Funnily enough nothing to do with the EU.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:When'd that happen?

Obviously you don’t normally follow politics.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:01 pm

Murger wrote:Have you got proof that those who shouted abuse have been arrested?

Have you got proof they haven't?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:When'd that happen?

Really, you need to follow politics more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 07826.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:03 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Obviously you don’t normally follow politics.
You're not going to answer such a simple question? Is it because you can't, or is it because you're afraid that you were wrong.

Answer the question, please. What example fo a left-wing leader ignoring a no-confidence vote are you referring to?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:03 pm

This is one of the reasons he has been trying to get rid of the 172 who voted against him.

He neither forgives or forgets.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:04 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You're not going to answer such a simple question? Is it because you can't, or is it because you're afraid that you were wrong.

Answer the question, please. What example fo a left-wing leader ignoring a no-confidence vote are you referring to?
Oh now you look stupid.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Murger » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:06 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Have you got proof they haven't?
You're the 1 who first said they'd have been arrested. So I'd say the onus is on you to provide the proof.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:15 pm

Murger wrote:You're the 1 who first said they'd have been arrested. So I'd say the onus is on you to provide the proof.

No i didn't. I asked "Do you think if the police were called that they would be allowed to continue to commit that crime?"

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:17 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Oh now you look stupid.
You're the one who made a vague claim and are refusing to elaborate. Either explain what you're talking about so that we can discuss it, or don't. But it's on you to be clear about what you're suggesting. The fact that you're refusing to do that only informs my suspicion that you think you said something dumb and can't elaborate because you know the rest of us will point out that you were wrong.

Prove me wrong by explaining what no confidence vote you think a left-wing leader is ignoring.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:19 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:They don't look nearly as good as they once did? They never looked good. You people were warned before the vote that if we voted to leave then the neoliberal nutjobs would gut regulations, including workers' rights, and you still went for it anyway. And all that's happened in the last 3 years is seen everything about how ******* moronic Brexit is, and how disastrous it will be to the economy that will be used by these neolib to justify the "bonfire of regulations" you were warned about be further confirmed.

Brexit was always going to be a ******* disaster. And that disaster was always going to be used by the neolibs to slash rights and to slash regulations. You don't think the electorate would tolerate it? The same electorate that even now has the Conservatives leading every westminster voting intention poll despite how much they're ******* the country up? You have a delusionally optimistic view of this electorate's ability to parse information and vote to protect their own interests.
I've just discovered how grating it is to be bracketed in as a member of 'you people'. Never happened before, on or off the internet!

It's all about giving yourself an excuse to get bad tempered, this messageboard, isn't it?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:21 pm

If it be your will wrote:I've just discovered how grating it is to be bracketed in as a member of 'you people'. Never happened before, on or off the internet!

It's all about giving yourself an excuse to get bad tempered, this messageboard, isn't it?
Oh hush. If you people are this easily upset then maybe you people shouldn't be on the internet.

But for your information, "you people" is generally a replacement for terms that get me banned because you people are very quick to his that report button when you people receive those insults. If it didn't **** those people off so much that they repeatedly whine about it then maybe i wouldn't enjoy using it so much. It does make me smile wondering if they report me for saying "you people" just as much as they report me for what i used to refer to them as.

Maybe the reason you haven't experience "you people" from me before nos is because generally you are not someone who i have considered deserving of the kind of term it replaces. But on this issue you certainly are, because you people were warned and you people refused to listen. And now we're where we are because of you people. :)
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:22 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The EU has countries that are quite a lot more progressive than we are. There are big socialist movements across the continent, and I'd guess that if the EU ditched the neoliberal elements you'd have no problem with us being in it? I'd say by remaining we can help change the EU, just as (in my opinion) Britain pushed it to be neoliberal in the first place.

We have too much of a dysfunctional media for our electorate to make effective decisions at the ballot box. Look at how austerity was broadly supported (in the beginning), and how the press filled pages with stories about people taking the system for a ride, and living off benefits. You're a leaver, but I don't think you blame the EU for the state of our NHS, housing, jobs, schools, and other reasons some people voted to leave. How did those people come to the decision that the EU was to blame, other than being told so by the press? The level of hatred - and I'm not using that word lightly - some people have toward Corbyn isn't because his socialism-lite policies work them up, but because the press has smeared and attacked him at every turn. I'm sure there's a point at which the UK public will say "enough is enough" - but working hand in hand the Tory Party and their newspaper propagandists are very good at getting the people of this country to agree to things that worsen their individual lives.
If someone ever explains a plausible pathway for fundamental reform the EU, then yes, I would want to remain, yes.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BennyD » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:28 pm

Spijed wrote:So are you saying people who are ugly can't make meaningful decisions?

There are many people who have deformities, who are more than capable of making the right choice.
Wow! Going into bat for two of the most ineffective, if not downright incompetent, politicians ever to taint the HoC. Good effort, I’m impressed at your attempt to defend the indefensible. Well done you.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:31 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Really, you need to follow politics more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 07826.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The no confidence vote led to a leadership contest that he won in a landslide.

You say he neither forgives nor forgets, but how many of those MPs has he got rid of? And how many has Johnson fired from his party?

Of course, what Johnson did was a "political masterstroke" (even though it left him completely impotent) and what Corbyn hasn't done, but as you point out he desperately wants to do, is (or would be if he did it) a Stalinist purge.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:31 pm

If it be your will wrote:If someone ever explains a plausible pathway for fundamental reform the EU, then yes, I would want to remain, yes.
Oh don't worry. But cutting away this increasingly far-right wing dead weight i think the EU will have a much easier time reforming themselves to be more inline with yours and my thinking.

Unfortunately for you and I though, this increasingly far-right wing country will now no longer have its increasingly far-right wing and neoliberal tendencies curtailed by a much less severe set of neoliberal EU laws. We had a floor below which we couldn't have fallen. Well done, you've succeeded in removing that floor and allowed our much more neoliberal governments to stoop as low as they like. Good job, lefty leavers. Good ******* job.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:33 pm

BennyD wrote:Wow! Going into bat for two of the most ineffective, if not downright incompetent, politicians ever to taint the HoC. Good effort, I’m impressed at your attempt to defend the indefensible. Well done you.
In what sense did he do that?

Lowbankclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You're the one who made a vague claim and are refusing to elaborate. Either explain what you're talking about so that we can discuss it, or don't. But it's on you to be clear about what you're suggesting. The fact that you're refusing to do that only informs my suspicion that you think you said something dumb and can't elaborate because you know the rest of us will point out that you were wrong.

Prove me wrong by explaining what no confidence vote you think a left-wing leader is ignoring.
I did and added a link.

172 to 40 Labour MP’s voted against him in a vote of no confidence.

He ignored them.

You are looking more arrogant by the minute.

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Really, you need to follow politics more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 07826.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oh look. you added a link while i was replying.

And look, it turns out you were full of ****. He didn't ignore that no-confidence vote at all. You lied. Typical leaver.

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