Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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Greenmile
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Greenmile » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:05 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'd love to see a graph of Ringobot's most often used outputs.

"largest single expression of democracy this country has ever witnessed" and "Democracy- it means sometimes you lose" must be among its top 5.
Definitely the one about not engaging with idiots that he uses whenever he’s got no way of addressing someone’s point, as well.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:11 am

Talking about not engaging with idiots, Green Turtle, I'm off out. Busy busy busy.



Have a belting weekend Ladies!

Greenmile
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:20 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Talking about not engaging with idiots, Green Turtle, I'm off out. Busy busy busy.



Have a belting weekend Ladies!
That meths wont drink itself, will it?

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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:30 pm

Greenmile wrote:Definitely the one about not engaging with idiots that he uses whenever he’s got no way of addressing someone’s point, as well.
As opposed to logging out as Turtles Head having being slapped down and being bereft of a response and logging back in as Greenmile , pretending to support another poster, who, in fact, is actually you!





Imploding Turtles Head/ Greenmile - me and my shadow

martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:59 pm

So much for no deal being a ‘million to one’ possibility.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:22 am

And here’s a view from abroad on how likely we are to strike good trade deals outside of the EU. It’s a view from the US but I suspect every other country is having the same thoughts.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

CombatClaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CombatClaret » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:43 pm

martin_p wrote:And here’s a view from abroad on how likely we are to strike good trade deals outside of the EU. It’s a view from the US but I suspect every other country is having the same thoughts.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

"Britain has no leverage, Britain is desperate … it needs an agreement very soon. When you have a desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain.”

Exactly what everyone said from the beginning.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:43 pm

Spending billions on preparations for a hard Brexit that parliament won’t allow to happen. Reminds me of the water cannons.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:48 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Spending billions on preparations for a hard Brexit that parliament won’t allow to happen. Reminds me of the water cannons.
If Parliament was that bothered, they wouldn't be on holiday till September, by which time (as Cummings has forcefully and possibly accurately pointed out) will probably be too late.

What is Parliament going to do? They can't just vote against no deal; they might as well vote to abolish 31st October this year for all the good it would do. They need to vote for something.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:00 pm

dsr wrote:If Parliament was that bothered, they wouldn't be on holiday till September, by which time (as Cummings has forcefully and possibly accurately pointed out) will probably be too late.

What is Parliament going to do? They can't just vote against no deal; they might as well vote to abolish 31st October this year for all the good it would do. They need to vote for something.
Perfect post.

You manage to complain that Parliament is on holiday and therefore not that bothered. And then you manage to suggest that Parliament would be powerless anyway.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by bfcjg » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:02 pm

This whole fiasco will bring this inept government down and that idiot Johnson will be the shortest serving PM such was his stupidity at pitching his campaign at the blue rinse brigade of Tory little Englanders.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:09 pm

This is embarrassing from our government.

https://news.sky.com/story/eu-leaders-h ... l-11778386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AlargeClaret » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:11 pm

martin_p wrote:So much for no deal being a ‘million to one’ possibility.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other
With the greatest of respect how on earth can you hold any balance or credibility when you just post links to Uber remainer sympathetic/Guardian pieces ? It’s right up there with posting bilge from the Daily Express , and simply shows the quite staggering smugness of hardcore remainers almost willing the country to fail .

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:12 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:With the greatest of respect how on earth can you hold any balance or credibility when you just post links to Uber remainer sympathetic/Guardian pieces ? It’s right up there with posting bilge from the Daily Express , and simply shows the quite staggering smugness of hardcore remainers almost willing the country to fail .
:lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:17 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:With the greatest of respect how on earth can you hold any balance or credibility when you just post links to Uber remainer sympathetic/Guardian pieces ? It’s right up there with posting bilge from the Daily Express , and simply shows the quite staggering smugness of hardcore remainers almost willing the country to fail .
Been reported all over the place. Was headlining on BBC radio this morning.

Here’s the same news from the Mail if it makes it more palatable for you. It’s written with a different emphasis, but the message is the same, I.e. despite Johnson’s ‘million to one comments’ we’re heading for no deal.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hnson.html

martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:26 pm

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... it-EU-deal

And here’s the Express’s take on it. That’s two Brexit supporting paper against one remain. Am I allowed to say ‘ So much for no deal being a ‘million to one’ possibility’ now?

dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:38 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Perfect post.

You manage to complain that Parliament is on holiday and therefore not that bothered. And then you manage to suggest that Parliament would be powerless anyway.
To be fair, most people will probably be able to judge that the two sentences are connected and that Parliament will struggle to do anything because they have been on holiday until it is too late.

I think you have a very creative use of the word "complain", incidentally. I can't see anything in my post that reads as a complaint. On the contrary, Parliament clearing off has left the way clear for the government to get on with business.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:41 pm

martin_p wrote:Been reported all over the place. Was headlining on BBC radio this morning.

Here’s the same news from the Mail if it makes it more palatable for you. It’s written with a different emphasis, but the message is the same, I.e. despite Johnson’s ‘million to one comments’ we’re heading for no deal.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hnson.html
I'm surprised it's big news, except of course that Boris did make hyperbolic claims about his million to one chance. But the EU says that they want May's deal or nothing, and every political party in the House of Commons says that May's deal is no good, so obviously May's deal is out. And there aren't any other deals.

(Apart of course from the dozens of little deals that will keep the airlines etc. running smoothly. But no big trade deal.)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:48 pm

Oh, Boris. Please, do this. :lol:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bori ... -s28ksnhzm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:49 pm

dsr wrote:I'm surprised it's big news, except of course that Boris did make hyperbolic claims about his million to one chance. But the EU says that they want May's deal or nothing, and every political party in the House of Commons says that May's deal is no good, so obviously May's deal is out. And there aren't any other deals.

(Apart of course from the dozens of little deals that will keep the airlines etc. running smoothly. But no big trade deal.)
It’s the withdrawal agreement that’s locked down as far as the EU is concerned, the political declaration is still up for grabs. And let’s not pretend that the deal was rejected numerous times in parliament because of the Irish backstop, Labour’s major problem was that the political declaration didn’t mention a customs union which was the Brexit they’d backed in their manifesto. If you look at the cross party talks that May held when it was all a bit too late it was a customs union that was the big hope for getting the WA through parliament, Labour didn’t insist the backstop should be dropped. So clearly there is a version of the WA + political declaration that would receive cross party support, but it’s not one that the Uber Brexiteers now in charge are prepared to countenance.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:03 pm

CombatClaret wrote:"Britain has no leverage, Britain is desperate … it needs an agreement very soon. When you have a desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain.”

Exactly what everyone said from the beginning.
That can't be true, multiple posters have explained how hamstringing our economy will put us in a strong negotiating position.
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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:21 pm

For all the hassle this Brexit better be bloody good if it ever goes through.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:36 pm

Was listening to the former German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was on radio 4 yesterday... very interesting interview.

He cried when we voted Brexit.... but for Europe more than us. Without the UK Germany lose its best free trade ally, where as Germany held sway with us v France, now the cosy German /French relations will be sorely tested as Germany is far more allied to Britain than France’s protectionism.... he expects the EU to be as accommodating as possible to get a rehashed deal done... so long as parliament can sort it’s house out.

Sorry didn’t post yesterday.... but hey ho.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:01 pm

martin_p wrote:It’s the withdrawal agreement that’s locked down as far as the EU is concerned, the political declaration is still up for grabs. And let’s not pretend that the deal was rejected numerous times in parliament because of the Irish backstop, Labour’s major problem was that the political declaration didn’t mention a customs union which was the Brexit they’d backed in their manifesto. If you look at the cross party talks that May held when it was all a bit too late it was a customs union that was the big hope for getting the WA through parliament, Labour didn’t insist the backstop should be dropped. So clearly there is a version of the WA + political declaration that would receive cross party support, but it’s not one that the Uber Brexiteers now in charge are prepared to countenance.
Except that the EU will not renegotiate the deal, so whatever was wrong with it that Labour couldn't stomach will still be there on October 31st. (Unless the thing they couldn't stomach was that it was Conservative policy. But I doubt they could make such an obviously party-expedient u-turn without, like the Tories did, getting a new leader.)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:52 pm

dsr wrote:Except that the EU will not renegotiate the deal, so whatever was wrong with it that Labour couldn't stomach will still be there on October 31st. (Unless the thing they couldn't stomach was that it was Conservative policy. But I doubt they could make such an obviously party-expedient u-turn without, like the Tories did, getting a new leader.)
It’s the Withdrawal Agreement they won’t renegotiate, they’ve always been more than happy to discuss the political declaration which is the bit that talks about the basis for the future relationship between the uk and the EU. But the government won’t discuss that without the EU dropping the Irish backstop knowing full well that the EU have said they won’t do that. So Boris and co get to frame the deadlock as the EU’s fault even though it us that’s putting a pre-condition on talks restarting, a pre-condition that we know full well that the EU will never accept.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:05 am

martin_p wrote:It’s the Withdrawal Agreement they won’t renegotiate, they’ve always been more than happy to discuss the political declaration which is the bit that talks about the basis for the future relationship between the uk and the EU. But the government won’t discuss that without the EU dropping the Irish backstop knowing full well that the EU have said they won’t do that. So Boris and co get to frame the deadlock as the EU’s fault even though it us that’s putting a pre-condition on talks restarting, a pre-condition that we know full well that the EU will never accept.
They could at least negotiate whether it is more appropriate to have the EU controlling part of the UK's economy or the UK controlling part of Ireland's economy. Except of course they won't, because the UK controlling part of Ireland's economy would be a nonsense idea. As is the EU controlling part of the UK's economy.

The Irish backstop can't happen. It would be a dereliction of duty by the Government to allow it. May was an idiot even to discuss it, and it must be thrown out altogether. If the EU feels itself unable to sign a trade agreement with the UK on those terms (when they have happily signed trade agreements with other countries without demanding anything like the degree of control), then so be it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:38 am

dsr wrote:The Irish backstop can't happen. It would be a dereliction of duty by the Government to allow it. May was an idiot even to discuss it, and it must be thrown out altogether.
Our current Prime Minister, who Leavers seem to be quite fond of, voted for it. Was he derelict in his duty and also an idiot?

It's not the backstop that needs to be thrown out altogether, it's the entire failed project of Brexit.
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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:07 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:Our current Prime Minister, who Leavers seem to be quite fond of, voted for it. Was he derelict in his duty and also an idiot?

It's not the backstop that needs to be thrown out altogether, it's the entire failed project of Brexit.
Yes he was derelict in his duty, and yes he was wrong (though I wouldn't go so far as to call him an idiot).

The time to throw out Brexit was at the referendum. Not enough people agreed with you.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:18 am

If we have no deal, what should be done about the Irish border? I don't see how we can respect the Good Friday agreement without it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Mala591 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:26 am

HieronymousBoschHobs wrote:If we have no deal, what should be done about the Irish border? I don't see how we can respect the Good Friday agreement without it.
I have forwarded your question to all the Labour MPs who rejected the EU/UK withdrawal agreement and asked them to copy you in with their reasons for rejection.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Alanstevensonsgloves » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:36 am

AndrewJB wrote:Spending billions on preparations for a hard Brexit that parliament won’t allow to happen. Reminds me of the water cannons.
Didn't parliament three times have the opportunity to allow a soft Brexit, and three times rejected it? What does parliament what, that fulfils the result of and sentiment behind the referendum ?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:42 am

Mala591 wrote:I have forwarded your question to all the Labour MPs who rejected the EU/UK withdrawal agreement and asked them to copy you in with their reasons for rejection.
Why just the Labour MPs? Is it because you don’t expect an honest answer from the ERG?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:16 pm

Has this guy not heard of DSR’s plan to wave everything through?

https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1 ... 62336?s=21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He needs to believe more does that guy.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:25 pm

Mala591 wrote:I have forwarded your question to all the Labour MPs who rejected the EU/UK withdrawal agreement and asked them to copy you in with their reasons for rejection.
Labour rejected the Withdrawal Agreement because they want a customs union.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:40 pm

HieronymousBoschHobs wrote:If we have no deal, what should be done about the Irish border? I don't see how we can respect the Good Friday agreement without it.
There is zero problem setting the rules for the border. The problem is with how to enforce them, and that will be done with a light touch (ie. less efficiently) while the details of the system are being established.

Remember that there is already paperwork every time a company exports from one part of Ireland to the other. The systems are already in place to alert HMRC to sudden big changes, so catching large scale fraud will still be possible and likely just as it is possible to catch large scale VAT fraud.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:02 pm

I can't believe that all the other countries in the world bother with border posts and stuff when all you need to do is check the paperwork.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:29 pm

aggi wrote:I can't believe that all the other countries in the world bother with border posts and stuff when all you need to do is check the paperwork.
Up to 1973 there were export and import tariffs between North and South Ireland and they didn't have border posts on all the roads. And yes, smuggling happened. Why are people so obsessed with the importance of all smuggling that they think the Irish border will be put at risk because of it?

This much I can tell you. There will be no "Berlin Wall" along the Irish border on 1st November 2019. (Or afterwards.)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:11 am

Our government blaming it on the EU, for a change.

https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... y.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:27 am

There are so many ridiculous doomsday scenarios that any element of truth will be ignored. Why should the car industry go down the pan? Will we not drive cars in this country any more?

We are currently net importers of cars. Brexit, so the doomsayers tell us, will interrupt supply lines on both sides of the Channel. Brexit will also introduce tariffs, making it more expensive to export cars from either side of the Channel to the other. Brexit will also crash Sterling, making UK exports to the EU much cheaper for Europeans, and EU exports to the UK much more expensive for us.

So the position is that UK built cars will get marginally more expensive in the UK while EU built cars will get vastly more expensive. And in the EU, UK built cars will get a little cheaper while EU built cars will get a little more expensive.

And the conclusion is that the UK car industry will tank because - why? Because the EU won't want to buy our cars when they get a bit cheaper, while we will be desperate to by EU cars when they get a lot more expensive?

We buy more cars than we make. If importing gets expensive, then we will make more in the UK.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:33 am

dsr wrote:There are so many ridiculous doomsday scenarios that any element of truth will be ignored. Why should the car industry go down the pan? Will we not drive cars in this country any more?

We are currently net importers of cars. Brexit, so the doomsayers tell us, will interrupt supply lines on both sides of the Channel. Brexit will also introduce tariffs, making it more expensive to export cars from either side of the Channel to the other. Brexit will also crash Sterling, making UK exports to the EU much cheaper for Europeans, and EU exports to the UK much more expensive for us.

So the position is that UK built cars will get marginally more expensive in the UK while EU built cars will get vastly more expensive. And in the EU, UK built cars will get a little cheaper while EU built cars will get a little more expensive.

And the conclusion is that the UK car industry will tank because - why? Because the EU won't want to buy our cars when they get a bit cheaper, while we will be desperate to by EU cars when they get a lot more expensive?

We buy more cars than we make. If importing gets expensive, then we will make more in the UK.
That analysis may be meaningful if each car plant was an entirely discrete unit with the whole supply chain in the same country as the plant.

That isn't the case though (and we both know it).

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:46 am

dsr wrote:There are so many ridiculous doomsday scenarios that any element of truth will be ignored. Why should the car industry go down the pan? Will we not drive cars in this country any more?

We are currently net importers of cars. Brexit, so the doomsayers tell us, will interrupt supply lines on both sides of the Channel. Brexit will also introduce tariffs, making it more expensive to export cars from either side of the Channel to the other. Brexit will also crash Sterling, making UK exports to the EU much cheaper for Europeans, and EU exports to the UK much more expensive for us.

So the position is that UK built cars will get marginally more expensive in the UK while EU built cars will get vastly more expensive. And in the EU, UK built cars will get a little cheaper while EU built cars will get a little more expensive.

And the conclusion is that the UK car industry will tank because - why? Because the EU won't want to buy our cars when they get a bit cheaper, while we will be desperate to by EU cars when they get a lot more expensive?

We buy more cars than we make. If importing gets expensive, then we will make more in the UK.
Yet the people who actually know the intricacies of these things say there will be a problem. The irony of your post is that you were berating people on the transfer thread for thinking they knew better than Sean Dyche, yet here you are, knowing more than the experts about imports/exports, the Irish border and the car industry.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:00 am

martin_p wrote:Yet the people who actually know the intricacies of these things say there will be a problem. The irony of your post is that you were berating people on the transfer thread for thinking they knew better than Sean Dyche, yet here you are, knowing more than the experts about imports/exports, the Irish border and the car industry.
It is suggested that the UK car industry will be decimated. But at present, we buy about 2 million new cars per year; if it becomes ruinously expensive to import cars, then more cars will be made in this country.

There may be adjustments to what is made and by who, but cars will be made here.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Siddo » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:05 am

dsr wrote:It is suggested that the UK car industry will be decimated. But at present, we buy about 2 million new cars per year; if it becomes ruinously expensive to import cars, then more cars will be made in this country.

There may be adjustments to what is made and by who, but cars will be made here.
What a simplistic reply. You are using the sort of logic that all leavers use. You probably need to bury your head in the sand for around 10 years.
Leavers stand shoulder to shoulder with each other saying go for no deal, when not one single leave voter voted for a no deal brexit, not one.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:13 am

Siddo wrote:What a simplistic reply. You are using the sort of logic that all leavers use. You probably need to bury your head in the sand for around 10 years.
Leavers stand shoulder to shoulder with each other saying go for no deal, when not one single leave voter voted for a no deal brexit, not one.
That's a strange second paragraph, considering that your first paragraph was criticising my logic! Not a single Leave voter voted for Brexit with a deal, either. What we voted for was to leave. Full stop.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:15 am

Siddo wrote:What a simplistic reply. You are using the sort of logic that all leavers use. You probably need to bury your head in the sand for around 10 years.
Leavers stand shoulder to shoulder with each other saying go for no deal, when not one single leave voter voted for a no deal brexit, not one.
A no deal brexit wasn't even countenanced back in 2016,we where told this would be the easiest trade deal in history,and we held all the cards,somewhere along the way we've either been terrible poker players,or we've had some poor hands,whatever the cause parliament won't allow no deal to pass,so it's up to Boris to come up with the answers,if he can't it's eminently feasible brexit won't happen in any form.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:17 am

dsr wrote:Up to 1973 there were export and import tariffs between North and South Ireland and they didn't have border posts on all the roads. And yes, smuggling happened. Why are people so obsessed with the importance of all smuggling that they think the Irish border will be put at risk because of it?

This much I can tell you. There will be no "Berlin Wall" along the Irish border on 1st November 2019. (Or afterwards.)
I don't think anyone has suggested a "Berlin Wall" along the Irish border. However, no-one (not just in the UK/Ireland but in any country anywhere in the world) has come up with a way to have a border without any checking at the border. If it was as easy as you keep suggesting do you not think that other countries would already be doing it rather than the huge cost of border infrastructure?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:52 am

aggi wrote:I don't think anyone has suggested a "Berlin Wall" along the Irish border. However, no-one (not just in the UK/Ireland but in any country anywhere in the world) has come up with a way to have a border without any checking at the border. If it was as easy as you keep suggesting do you not think that other countries would already be doing it rather than the huge cost of border infrastructure?
Where did I say it was easy? I said it was possible. And on 1st November 2019, when the UK is not in the EU and there is no border infrastructure, we will see it happen.

St Maarten and St Martin, in the Caribbean, don't have any border controls, in spite of St Martin being in the EU and St Maarten not.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:55 pm

dsr wrote:Where did I say it was easy? I said it was possible. And on 1st November 2019, when the UK is not in the EU and there is no border infrastructure, we will see it happen.

St Maarten and St Martin, in the Caribbean, don't have any border controls, in spite of St Martin being in the EU and St Maarten not.
That's not particularly similar to Ireland though is it. An island with 80,000 people 4,000 miles away from the rest of the EU and outside of the Schengen Area and the EU VAT Area isn't going to lead to large scale smuggling into the EU.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:56 pm

aggi wrote:That's not particularly similar to Ireland though is it. An island with 80,000 people 4,000 miles away from the rest of the EU and outside of the Schengen Area and the EU VAT Area isn't going to lead to large scale smuggling into the EU.
No, not particularly similar. But it shows that there is no absolute principle against it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:42 pm

dsr wrote:No, not particularly similar. But it shows that there is no absolute principle against it.
I think you’re clutching at straws. None of this is going well at all. A campaign that said almost anything to get the “no” vote over the line, and now we can see their promises of easy trade deals and sunlit uplands were worthless. The last three years have shown us this. Do you remember how the EU is a huge drain on our economy? Well now we’re spending billions on preparing the country for a disorderly exit, we were told it would never come to. We were told the EU is drowning us in red tape, and yet we’re about to embark on creating masses of it ourselves. They called us a proud free trading nation, but were about to take a huge retrograde step in terms of free trade. You might say this is for freedom, but we are all losing our rights as EU citizens to live and work within the EU (I think I mentioned my neighbour who is a Brexiter who wants to retire in Spain?). It is all turning into a complete train wreck.

I’m open to debate on this, so if you want to point out where I’ve missed pluses, please do, but apart from getting back a sliver of sovereignty that won’t make a difference to anybody’s life, I can’t see them.

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