Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:16 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:When the journalists dig they just uncover. More and more. Jo Swinson oh dear oh dear.

https://nyebevannews.co.uk/swinson-fail ... ean-union/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi Lowbank, I'm sure you meant "dig" - so I've edited above.

I wonder what Lancs and others have to say about this politician's integrity? (Always, assuming the Nye Bevan News article checks out as accurate).

And, the irony "Transparency International" is, well not a little, ironic.

I believe I posted something to the effect that "all politicians lie/are economical with the truth...."

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:22 pm

Damo wrote:I dont need to google anything pal.

I didn’t suggest you google anything ‘pal’!

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:45 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lowbank, I'm sure you meant "dig" - so I've edited above.

I wonder what Lancs and others have to say about this politician's integrity? (Always, assuming the Nye Bevan News article checks out as accurate).

And, the irony "Transparency International" is, well not a little, ironic.

I believe I posted something to the effect that "all politicians lie/are economical with the truth...."

All pigs at the trough.

Not surprised at all, goven her completely undemocratic stance.

But to be fair and credit where it’s due. If the EU want to pay me 3.4 million euros I will vote remain. Well I would say I did.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:50 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:All pigs at the trough.

Not surprised at all, goven her completely undemocratic stance.

But to be fair and credit where it’s due. If the EU want to pay me 3.4 million euros I will vote remain. Well I would say I did.

I understand it was reported that Nick Clegg is paid around $1 million a year to represent Facebook.

I'll leave it at that.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:17 pm

A good read for those who feel there is a democratic mandate for No Deal. (The Piers Morgan club)

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/04/04/ta ... ntly-done/

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:15 pm

martin_p wrote:I didn’t suggest you google anything ‘pal’!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:54 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:All pigs at the trough.

Not surprised at all, goven her completely undemocratic stance.

But to be fair and credit where it’s due. If the EU want to pay me 3.4 million euros I will vote remain. Well I would say I did.

The lib anti-democratics-

The very very best form of democracy that money can buy ........

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:14 am

. The European Union gave a 3.5m euro donation to Transparency International, which in peak irony is supposed to be an anti corruption watchdog with a mandate to foster, erm, transparency.

It is run by Jo Swinson’s husband. Has Jo Swinson declared this conflict of interest to the House of Commons? No.

Is that a breach of House of Commons protocol? Yes.

Is it a breach of the law? Yes.

So who is Jo Swinson’s husband? His name is Duncan Hames. He is the director of policy at Transparency International UK.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:25 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:A good read for those who feel there is a democratic mandate for No Deal. (The Piers Morgan club)

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/04/04/ta ... ntly-done/

Why is this a good read, DA? We can assume that "Steve Analyst" didn't vote leave. He mentions negotiating, he mentions various alternative models. That's what the country is doing - and, all the MPs who voted to trigger Article 50 knew that they were triggering the default position of "no deal" at the withdrawal stage with a second stage of negotiations for future trading relationship. What we didn't know in June 2016 was that the EU would only negotiate this way, contrary, it could be argued, to the Lisbon Treaty. What we didn't know is our MPs didn't know what they were doing, but they still went on and did it. I guess what we also didn't expect was that our MPs would change their minds about the referendum and try to block the UK leaving the EU....

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:40 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:. The European Union gave a 3.5m euro donation to Transparency International, which in peak irony is supposed to be an anti corruption watchdog with a mandate to foster, erm, transparency.

It is run by Jo Swinson’s husband. Has Jo Swinson declared this conflict of interest to the House of Commons? No.

Is that a breach of House of Commons protocol? Yes.

Is it a breach of the law? Yes.

So who is Jo Swinson’s husband? His name is Duncan Hames. He is the director of policy at Transparency International UK.

Why’s it a conflict of interest? There’s quite a few MPs get EY farming subsidies but we don’t worry about them. Will the withdrawal of the uk from the EU affect the funding? It’s a global organisation not just a uk one.

atlantalad · Post by **atlantalad** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:57 am

Mala591 wrote:Why would the suggestion that giving the people of Northern Ireland the democratic control over the future of their province be a joke?

Susssh will you...... man what are you trying to do suggesting that.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:06 am

aggi wrote:America having the most troops in WWII. The Soviet Union had about twice as many.

It's prudent to remember the overall estimated figures probably comprised of ragtag partisans opposed to the nazi regime & disjointed fighting forces from the baltic regions aiding the red army.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:38 am

And outside the #FBPE bubble, Boris has a 15 point lead...

https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 17536?s=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:53 am

Jo Swinson, oh dear oh dear,

https://www.milngavieherald.co.uk/news/ ... -1-5017924" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:00 am

Jakubclaret wrote:It's prudent to remember the overall estimated figures probably comprised of ragtag partisans opposed to the nazi regime & disjointed fighting forces from the baltic regions aiding the red army.

The Soviet partisans are estimated to have grown to just over half a million men, so out of a total size of thirty four million men, there weren’t that significant, though the roll they played was. Why did you pretty much make something up to suit your agenda, when you could have looked it up as I did? It’s perfectly possible to a knowledge the major role and horrendous price paid by the Soviets, without being a fan of Stalin.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:04 am

A very assured performance from S Barclay on the AM Show just now.

Be very interesting to see how the likes of Julie Cooper vote if there is a deal agreed with the EU. She will be in a very difficult position. It is absolutely clear that the people of Burnley want to leave. Does she vote no again and probably break her whip and loose her shadow job?

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:07 am

summitclaret wrote:A very assured performance from S Barclay on the AM Show just now.

Be very interesting to see how the likes of Julie Cooper vote if there is a deal agreed with the EU. She will be in a very difficult position. It is absolutely clear that the people of Burnley want to leave. Does she vote no again and probably break her whip and loose her shadow job? I

Shouldn't really matter either way because she's that bad a MP for the town she doesn't deserve the job.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:08 am

summitclaret wrote:A very assured performance from S Barclay on the AM Show just now.

Be very interesting to see how the likes of Julie Cooper vote if there is a deal agreed with the EU. She will be in a very difficult position. It is absolutely clear that the people of Burnley want to leave. Does she vote no again and probably break her whip and loose her shadow job?

Lisa Nandy said on Sky News that 40 Labour MP's want to vote for a deal.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:10 am

summitclaret wrote:A very assured performance from S Barclay on the AM Show just now.

Be very interesting to see how the likes of Julie Cooper vote if there is a deal agreed with the EU. She will be in a very difficult position. It is absolutely clear that the people of Burnley want to leave. Does she vote no again and probably break her whip and loose her shadow job? I

There won't be any problem passing a deal through Parliament if the EU agrees to it.

The deal that Barclay is promoting is not acceptable to the EU.

Essentially he's gaming to his base support.

if he changes the deal to be more acceptable to the EU, he loses DUP/ERG support.

While its got the support of the ERG in particular, any self respecting Labout left winger would be absolutely 100% mad to think that such a deal would aid their constituents.

I don't envy the government at all to be honest, but the failure to slap down the ERG in 2016/17/18 is coming back to haunt them.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:14 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:There won't be any problem passing a deal through Parliament if the EU agrees to it.

The deal that Barclay is promoting is not acceptable to the EU.

Essentially he's gaming to his base support.

if he changes the deal to be more acceptable to the EU, he loses DUP/ERG support.

While its got the support of the ERG in particular, any self respecting Labout left winger would be absolutely 100% mad to think that such a deal would aid their constituents.

I don't envy the government at all to be honest, but the failure to slap down the ERG in 2016/17/18 is coming back to haunt them.

Any self respecting labour left winger should represent their constituents

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:15 am

Barclay was pretty clear that we are prepared to discuss. I would be amazed if we hadn't built in areas for concessions and already cleared those with the DUP and ERG.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:31 am

The EU are changing their goalposts all the time to manipulate us into staying, or staying in close orbit.

Last year Barnier said that checks on premises and at the border are OK, now he says they are not.

The penny is dropping with people now (the open minded ones) that their whole negotiating tactic is to stop us properly leaving. I have said it before, and I’ll say it again, Ireland will be the big loser in this when it resolves, there will be a payback at the appropriate time for this farce, Varadkar is making a huge strategic error.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:32 am

AndrewJB wrote:The Soviet partisans are estimated to have grown to just over half a million men, so out of a total size of thirty four million men, there weren’t that significant, though the roll they played was. Why did you pretty much make something up to suit your agenda, when you could have looked it up as I did? It’s perfectly possible to a knowledge the major role and horrendous price paid by the Soviets, without being a fan of Stalin.

I wasn't even sure on the estimated figure I hadn't done any research on any estimated calculations, history does have a tendency to distort & that still doesn't account for the tribal factions who had alliegances towards Stalin & the cause.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:33 am

Oh, by the way, I read two articles in newspapers today.

In one, the DUP had apparently been given everything it wanted.

In the other, the DUP have done a total capitulation and about turn on their original red lines.

Weird times if even political reporters cannot make their minds up.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:53 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Oh, by the way, I read two articles in newspapers today.

In one, the DUP had apparently been given everything it wanted.

In the other, the DUP have done a total capitulation and about turn on their original red lines.

Weird times if even political reporters cannot make their minds up.

When people say the "DUP gets this and the DUP gets that," it's not accurate really.

Northern Ireland itself gets investment. The DUP gets nowt.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:59 am

martin_p wrote:
Why’s it a conflict of interest? There’s quite a few MPs get EY farming subsidies but we don’t worry about them. Will the withdrawal of the uk from the EU affect the funding? It’s a global organisation not just a uk one.

The husband of a politician's organisation receives 3.5 million from the EU. That politician has vowed to overturn the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed, that said we leave the EU.

And there's no conflict of interest Marty!?

No man is so blind than he who refuses to see.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:04 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:The husband of a politician's organisation receives 3.5 million from the EU. That politician has vowed to overturn the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed, that said we leave the EU.

And there's no conflict of interest Marty!?

No man is so blind than he who refuses to see.

And what about the Brown envelopes that Boris seems to have been handing out whilst London mayor?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:10 pm

Boris Johnsons mum gives short interview

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/11 ... 8500909056

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:17 pm

Spijed wrote:And what about the Brown envelopes that Boris seems to have been handing out whilst London mayor?

Which "brown envelopes"?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:31 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Which "brown envelopes"?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -trip.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:34 pm

Spijed wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -trip.html

In the grand scheme of things is this something that particularly troubles you?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:37 pm

taio wrote:In the grand scheme of things is this something that particularly troubles you?

No, like the news story about Jo Swinson doesn't either!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:38 pm

Spijed wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -trip.html

No mention of "brown envelopes" in the link.

Try again.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:41 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:No mention of "brown envelopes" in the link.

Try again.

Like most on here Ringo, it really is pointless debating with you as it's fairly obvious what the accusation is with regards to Boris Johnson.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:09 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Boris Johnsons mum gives short interview

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/11 ... 8500909056

It was a funny clip from the show, but given that Boris’s real mum has been seriously ill for most of her life we should all be careful making jokes about her. She was a Leave voter though so her judgement is spot on

(the real Mum not the lady in the clip).

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:10 pm

Spijed wrote:Like most on here Ringo, it really is pointless debating with you as it's fairly obvious what the accusation is with regards to Boris Johnson.

Its clearly pointless attempting to compare a woman who was friends with the then Mayor ,receiving a legitimate grant to help her start a business. To a politician who's husbands company as received millions, from an organisation, that the nation has decided , through the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed, to leave. Who has avowed to ignore and overturn that referendum to, presumably, maintain the source and supply of millions of euros to her husbands company. While trying to compare , you claim " brown envelopes " were involved!

So I guess I agree with you. Its as utterly pointless, as it is just plain daft!

So everybody's happy.

Have a great rest of the weekend spijed.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:35 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Have a great rest of the weekend spijed.

And you

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 pm

taio wrote:Any self respecting labour left winger should represent their constituents

By backing an ERG Brexit?

Back a Brexit that makes sure workers rights are protected would be what they should do if they are doing that.

What exactly do you think "a bonfire of regulations" is?

Its not bendy bananas legislation put it one way!

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:41 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:By backing an ERG Brexit?

Back a Brexit that makes sure workers rights are protected would be what they should do if they are doing that.

What exactly do you think "a bonfire of regulations" is?

Its not bendy bananas legislation put it one way!

Just by backing the UK to leave the EU if that's what a MP's constituents clearly voted for as was the case in Burnley. There have been past opportunities too.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:38 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:By backing an ERG Brexit?

Back a Brexit that makes sure workers rights are protected would be what they should do if they are doing that.

What exactly do you think "a bonfire of regulations" is?

Its not bendy bananas legislation put it one way!

Didn't May state current workers rights would be enshrined in UK law?

Is that not happening now?

I recall people still being adamant that it wouldn't happen back then because it's the Tories.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:53 pm

Questioning whether I've misjudged Guido Fawkes all along. There was me thinking he just lies and deliberately misrepresents stuff when maybe he's actually just a thick f*cker and complete moron

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:57 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:It was a funny clip from the show, but given that Boris’s real mum has been seriously ill for most of her life we should all be careful making jokes about her. She was a Leave voter though so her judgement is spot on (the real Mum not the lady in the clip).

Little item in Diary section of yesterday's Times: BJ's report on his mother. BJ said every time we discuss Brexit when I'm back with the family my mother, raises her arm, points to the door and shouts "leave!"

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:35 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:The husband of a politician's organisation receives 3.5 million from the EU. That politician has vowed to overturn the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed, that said we leave the EU.

And there's no conflict of interest Marty!?

No man is so blind than he who refuses to see.

I asked would he organisation in question lose the EU funding if we left the EU, you haven’t answered. It’s key to whether there’s any perceived conflict of interest.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Johnson is a proven liar.

You can pretend that he isn't if you want.

Doesn't change the fact that he's a proven liar.

You do know he's lost two jobs because he's been found out to be a proven liar?

My original question was as BJ ever lied to you on a face to face basis? It was a specific question without a forthcoming answer, the conclusion I’m reaching is he hasn’t despite you being convinced he is a liar, the point which you have clearly missed is that I was demonstrating sometimes to assess somebody’s credibility you need to take them at face value & no other way, I personally think BJ is a liar based on the overall criterion but I wouldn’t claim he is a proven liar if he hadn’t personally lied to me, I’ve answered your question despite you not answering mine.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:20 pm

Would you be uncomfortable claiming Peter Sutcliffe is a proven serial killer because he hadnt personally killed you?

Its good to have you back posting Jakub as the intelligence and quality of discussion definitely suffered from your absence

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:25 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Would you be uncomfortable claiming Peter Sutcliffe is a proven serial killer because he hadnt personally killed you?

Its good to have you back posting Jakub as the intelligence and quality of discussion definitely suffered from your absence

I wouldn’t be alive to know 1 way or the other if the yorkshire ripper did decide to murder me, not the greatest analogy.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:28 pm

Jakubclaret wrote: I wouldn’t be alive to know 1 way or the other if the yorkshire ripper did decide to murder me, not the greatest analogy.

Your alive now so would you agree he is a proven serial killer?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:30 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Your alive now so would you agree he is a proven serial killer?

99% certainty I believe he is yes, I wouldn’t claim 100%.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:56 pm

Well I never

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:23 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:My original question was as BJ ever lied to you on a face to face basis? It was a specific question without a forthcoming answer, the conclusion I’m reaching is he hasn’t despite you being convinced he is a liar, the point which you have clearly missed is that I was demonstrating sometimes to assess somebody’s credibility you need to take them at face value & no other way, I personally think BJ is a liar based on the overall criterion but I wouldn’t claim he is a proven liar if he hadn’t personally lied to me, I’ve answered your question despite you not answering mine.

Words fail me