Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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Rowls
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Rowls » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:53 am

martin_p wrote:There's plenty of evidence, you just don't want to see it.

Nissan cite Brexit as a problem as the withdraw new jobs from the UK.
Banks have already started moving billions of pounds of assets off shore.
Many other businesses implmeneting their 'no deal' emergency plans, some of which involve moving some operations into the EU.

This is not project fear, this is what's happening.
Other things that have happened:

The economy has continued to grow. Jobs have continued to be created.

And aside from the economics of it all there is the political side of the debate - this is what people actually voted for:

National Sovereignty.

So as I said before, there is "evidence" on both sides but what you really have is not "evidence", it is opinions.
Last edited by Rowls on Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:53 am

Rowls wrote: It's not me who wants you to talk about the lass with her knockers out
Ahhhh, that's why you started a thread entitled 'Brexit: The Naked Truth' and linked the video, because you didn't want to talk about it.

Rowls
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Rowls » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:55 am

martin_p wrote:Ahhhh, that's why you started a thread entitled 'Brexit: The Naked Truth' and linked the video, because you didn't want to talk about it.
I am just a conduit martin.

Obfuscate all you like, pal.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:55 am

Rowls wrote:Other things that have happened:

The economy has continued to grow. Jobs have continued to be created.

So as I said before, there is "evidence" on both sides but what you really have is not "evidence", it is opinions.
Nope, everything stated has happened, no opinion involved at all, it's now historical fact.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:55 am

This guy has nailed it

Believe in Brexit?

Then you can financially back it as well!

https://twitter.com/Sime0nStylites/stat ... 8483651589" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Rowls » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:56 am

For anyone who missed it:

https://twitter.com/vnbateman/status/10 ... 7697819649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:56 am

Rowls wrote:I am just a conduit martin.

Obfuscate all you like, pal.
Again, I'm just dealing in stone cold facts Rowls. You started the thread, you linked the video. Anyone would think you wanted to talk about it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Rowls » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:00 pm

I've had my fun martin.

I'll leave you alone with your stone cold facts.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:01 pm

martin_p wrote:Again, I'm just dealing in stone cold facts Rowls. You started the thread, you linked the video. Anyone would think you wanted to talk about it.
Not for the first, second or God knows how many times. Another poster points out that when you claim to have "facts" or "evidence" , your wrong.

Like everybody else on here. You have an opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:06 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Not for the first, second or God knows how many times. Another poster points out that when you claim to have "facts" or "evidence" , your wrong.

Like everybody else on here. You have an opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Ah Wrongo, Wrongo, Wrongo. Here you are again, wading into a conversation you haven't really read. Point out any of the things I've claimed are facts (they are) on this thread that aren't. Good luck.

See Rowls has done his usual trick of clearing off when he can't back up any of his arguments.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:06 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Not for the first, second or God knows how many times. Another poster points out that when you claim to have "facts" or "evidence" , your wrong.

Like everybody else on here. You have an opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Which one is wrong? Did Rowls not start the thread or did Rowls not link the video?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:08 pm

Rowls wrote:I've had my fun martin.

I'll leave you alone with your stone cold facts.
You never answered how James Goddard was helping Brexit. I was hoping you'd at least have some form of creative answer.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Rowls » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:15 pm

aggi wrote:You never answered how James Goddard was helping Brexit. I was hoping you'd at least have some form of creative answer.
I don't know who James Goddard is and I don't care to find out.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:17 pm

martin_p wrote:Ah Wrongo, Wrongo, Wrongo. Here you are again, wading into a conversation you haven't really read. Point out any of the things I've claimed are facts (they are) on this thread that aren't. Good luck.

See Rowls has done his usual trick of clearing off when he can't back up any of his arguments.
In your opinion.......

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:18 pm

Rowls wrote:I don't know who James Goddard is and I don't care to find out.

Hope this helps.
Fair enough. I'll accept there was a smidgen of bias in your posts and you weren't really interested in how prominent Brexit campaigners "helped" the Brexit cause.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by burnleymik » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:22 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:But embrace what? You never tell us, and no one in government can make up their mind what it is, and even when the ideologically driven ERG got together to try to define what it was and how to achieve it they failed abysmally.
I can tell you what it is.

All this rubbish about the "type" of Brexit is just that, rubbish. It was straight forward. Work out a deal as part of article 50 and if no deal could be worked out we leave without one.

We voted to leave and as part of that process, we triggered article 50, which allowed us to try and negotiate a deal with the EU, the type of Brexit was actually the type of deal, our PM and the Civil Service put together a deal, with the EU, that they thought would work. Parliament turned it down, substantially, so now we leave on WTO, as the referendum said from the beginning.

This not knowing what Brexit was, is more smoke and mirror nonsense.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TVC15 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:25 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:In your opinion.......
What ? In his opinion Rowls started this thread and posted the video ?

Ok.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:28 pm

martin_p wrote:So being less than eight weeks from Brexit day without any idea of how we might get a deal, the only plan being to go back and ask if we can get out of that bit we don't like, despite being repeatedly told that's not an option, isn't going badly? My son is four years old and even he has moved on from the 'constantly asking the same question hoping for a different answer' negotiating tactic.
The problem is May is bending over backwards to try and get a deal, but the fanatics in Brussels don't want one. Even though a no deal will be just if not more detrimental to the economies of the rest of Europe. They can't afford to pick up Britain's 39 billion tab. They can't afford the tariffs their exports to Britain will cost, they cant afford the confusion and muddle trade will become short term. Brussels being the fanatical federalists they are can't afford to let Brexit be seen as a success.
The bigger conflict here is coming when the rest of Europe start questioning Brussels as to why they are being penalised to satisfy the EU.
It isn't perfect for us, I'd prefer a deal, I always have, but a no deal isn't the end of the world for us, but it could well be for Brussels.

It's a game of poker, and we need someone at the table who realises what a good hand they have.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:32 pm

Any minute now the German car manufacturers will be knocking on Merkels door eh?

Whoopie doo, we are still at this stage.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:45 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:In your opinion.......
OK...….!

Well your own words make you look more of a fool than mine ever could, so I'll just leave it there with you looking silly.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:10 pm

martin_p wrote:Point out any of the things I've claimed are facts (they are) on this thread that aren't. Good luck.
That's the cleverness of Remainer arguments. (Not saying that Brexiters can't do it too, mind.)

It is certainly fact that Nissan have decided not to produce a type of Diesel car, which wasn't selling well and which didn't meet new regulations, in this country. And it is certainly true that they have blamed Brexit for it. So what you said is literally true.

But the implication is that Nissan have cancelled their new production line because of Brexit. Is that true? Well, I suppose if you feel that big businessmen are inherently trustworthy and they will always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - then maybe. I don't have your touching faith. Nissan aren't the first company to produce fewer diesels and to lose sales because of the global (especially Chinese) downturn in car sales, and blame Brexit. Would it be possible that a company board of directors prefers to blame someone else for their own financial losses?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by scouseclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:11 pm

Of course, you can always rely on the Brexiteers to tell the truth...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-47115960" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by duncandisorderly » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:15 pm

I found this really difficult to masturbate to.
Last edited by duncandisorderly on Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:17 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Any minute now the German car manufacturers will be knocking on Merkels door eh?

Whoopie doo, we are still at this stage.
Volkswagen execs may be somewhat distracted as they turn their attention to the setting up of production of a new panel van in Poland . Which is a blow to the workers at the current models home, in Hanover.

I blame brexit "uncertainty "!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:18 pm

scouseclaret wrote:Of course, you can always rely on the Brexiteers to tell the truth...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-47115960" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rowls doesn't know who he is though so that doesn't count.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by scouseclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:26 pm

aggi wrote:Rowls doesn't know who he is though so that doesn't count.
Seriously doubt he knew who Dr Victoria Bateman was before this morning!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:33 pm

dsr wrote:That's the cleverness of Remainer arguments. (Not saying that Brexiters can't do it too, mind.)

It is certainly fact that Nissan have decided not to produce a type of Diesel car, which wasn't selling well and which didn't meet new regulations, in this country. And it is certainly true that they have blamed Brexit for it. So what you said is literally true.

But the implication is that Nissan have cancelled their new production line because of Brexit. Is that true? Well, I suppose if you feel that big businessmen are inherently trustworthy and they will always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - then maybe. I don't have your touching faith. Nissan aren't the first company to produce fewer diesels and to lose sales because of the global (especially Chinese) downturn in car sales, and blame Brexit. Would it be possible that a company board of directors prefers to blame someone else for their own financial losses?
There's no cleverness, it's a reporting of what a company has said.

The irony here of course is that I produced this fact, amongst others, to counter the claim that the remainer argument was an empty one and there was nothing to back it up, all the doom and gloom predictions were just opinion. I've produced a number of facts and the only thing that anyone can come back with is the OPINION that the company in question is lying.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:39 pm

martin_p wrote:There's no cleverness, it's a reporting of what a company has said.

The irony here of course is that I produced this fact, amongst others, to counter the claim that the remainer argument was an empty one and there was nothing to back it up, all the doom and gloom predictions were just opinion. I've produced a number of facts and the only thing that anyone can come back with is the OPINION that the company in question is lying.
When your fact is that a company blames Brexit for unprofitability, it doesn't need a very strong refutation. It is my strong opinion that company leaders will never tell the whole truth about the inner workings of their business. That's not a controversial viewpoint unless you have firm belief that business leaders are entirely honest and keep no secrets.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:45 pm

But all of them, at the same time, saying the same thing?

One at a time you have a point, but I think the count is up to 200 firms that have used Brexit as an, er, "excuse" to either leave, suspend investment or cancel plans to do UK based stuff

You want to believe that its nothing to do with Brexit, knock yourself out.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by timshorts » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:45 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You've fallen into his trap lads

He wants you to talk about a lass with her knockers out who supports remain, rather than concentrating on another bad week for "Team Brexit".

Ask him to list the benefits of "No Deal", just like I did with Ringo last week.
1. We get our country back. (so that the English can bully everybody else and withdraw the Benefits that were going to deprived areas via the EU as they don't vote Tory)

2. We take control of our borders. (and being English, we don't care that this buggers up Northern Ireland /Eire etc)

3. We can control immigration and protect our jobs (Not typing the obvious in here)

4. We regain our Sovereignty. (well thanks for that one, but that doesn't really work for anyone not English, does it? Instead of some regulations being made by a majority of 28 countries which, generally, is fairly moderate, we get them imposed on us by our own comparatively undemocratically elected parliament that have, so far in this process, proved only their incompetence to govern)
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:02 pm

dsr wrote:When your fact is that a company blames Brexit for unprofitability, it doesn't need a very strong refutation. It is my strong opinion that company leaders will never tell the whole truth about the inner workings of their business. That's not a controversial viewpoint unless you have firm belief that business leaders are entirely honest and keep no secrets.
Well for a start Nissan haven't clamed that. I just reported what Nissan have said which is that Brexit is causing problems for business. But as Lancaster has said, it's not just Nissan is it, it's lots of businesses. But they're probably part of some big remainer corporate conspiracy.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by SussexDon1inIreland » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:03 pm

Nissan in a letter to their workers don't blame Brexit its because its declining sales of Diesel Engine powered cars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GSwgSpu8k0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The media are reporting it as Brexit as the main reason- not true

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:05 pm

SussexDon1inIreland wrote:Nissan in a letter to their workers don't blame Brexit its because its declining sales of Diesel Engine powered cars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GSwgSpu8k0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The media are reporting it as Brexit as the main reason- not true
They're not, they're reporting what Nissan said about Brexit uncertainty not being good for businesses.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Any minute now the German car manufacturers will be knocking on Merkels door eh?

Whoopie doo, we are still at this stage.
Well if you know better, explain how German cars being more expensive in Britain, is a good thing for the German car industry.

There are no tariffs at present. A no deal means we fall back under the WTO and adopt their tarrifs. They will be as bound by this as we are.
You spout on about how us having to pay tarrifs to trade with Europe is going to be so bad for the economy. So what twisted ideology permits you to say that it doesn't work both ways.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:11 pm

EU-Japan have just signed a free trade deal.

Why would you commit to making these models in an non-EU country in a highly competitive market?

You can dress this up as much as you like, but if a Japanese firm has two European plants, and one of them is in the UK and the other is in the EU, then the investment will only to be going to one place.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:15 pm

SussexDon1inIreland wrote:Nissan in a letter to their workers don't blame Brexit its because its declining sales of Diesel Engine powered cars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GSwgSpu8k0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The media are reporting it as Brexit as the main reason- not true
And besides, dsr has established that they're liars anyway. He certainly won't be believing this, he'll have worked out they're just avoiding embarrassing the government to protect the £80m investment the've been promised.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Caballo » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:24 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:EU-Japan have just signed a free trade deal.

Why would you commit to making these models in an non-EU country in a highly competitive market?

You can dress this up as much as you like, but if a Japanese firm has two European plants, and one of them is in the UK and the other is in the EU, then the investment will only to be going to one place.
Yes Japan! As you say, they've just signed a free trade agreement, they no longer need to build them in the EU at all.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:28 pm

And if you follow this to its natural conclusion, there is even less need to build them outside or keep operating them outside the EU for exporting to the EU.

Thats all Japanese firms with plants in the UK and the EU.

What good about this Brexit again?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:39 pm

martin_p wrote:And besides, dsr has established that they're liars anyway. He certainly won't be believing this, he'll have worked out they're just avoiding embarrassing the government to protect the £80m investment the've been promised.
It makes me wonder why you forever bang on about the Brexit campaign being based on lies, when you clearly have no objection in principle to false reporting.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:44 pm

Its not false reporting, if you actually read what they are reporting though.

The ONLY people claiming that this is nothing to do with Brexit are the ones who refuse to believe that anything bad could possibly happen due to Brexit.

Everybody else acknowledges that Brexit has played a part, and the only difference between about what size of a part it has played.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:48 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:And if you follow this to its natural conclusion, there is even less need to build them outside or keep operating them outside the EU for exporting to the EU.

Thats all Japanese firms with plants in the UK and the EU.


Unless, of course, your "natural conclusion" is based on certain assumptions. One being that you judge things as they are right now rather than how things could be.

A post brexit government could create an attractive business environment using favourable business rates, grants for setting up new plants and a competitive corporate tax regime.

Optimism about Britain's future outside the EU.

You should try it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:49 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its not false reporting ...
False reporting of what I said. You're not telling me that Martin really believes that "don't tell the whole truth" is the same as saying they're liars? Let alone going on to explain what I am thinking on stuff I haven't even mentioned.
Last edited by dsr on Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TheFamilyCat » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:49 pm

timshorts wrote:1. We get our country back. (so that the English can bully everybody else and withdraw the Benefits that were going to deprived areas via the EU as they don't vote Tory)

2. We take control of our borders. (and being English, we don't care that this buggers up Northern Ireland /Eire etc)

3. We can control immigration and protect our jobs (Not typing the obvious in here)

4. We regain our Sovereignty. (well thanks for that one, but that doesn't really work for anyone not English, does it? Instead of some regulations being made by a majority of 28 countries which, generally, is fairly moderate, we get them imposed on us by our own comparatively undemocratically elected parliament that have, so far in this process, proved only their incompetence to govern)
*cough* blue passports *cough*

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:55 pm

At the moment Ringo, we are heading for a "No Deal"

Again, please tell me the optimism for the UK in that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Burnley Ace » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:57 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Not for the first, second or God knows how many times. Another poster points out that when you claim to have "facts" or "evidence" , your wrong.

Like everybody else on here. You have an opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Hasn’t the difference already been explained to you?

Evidence - the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid

Opinion - a view or judgment formed about something not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

If it helps you - my comments are evidence yours are opinion.
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SGr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by SGr » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:00 pm

Posts like these really do highlight another reason why I want to remain: because the meltdown over Brexit being cancelled would be absolutely hilarious.
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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:01 pm

dsr wrote:It makes me wonder why you forever bang on about the Brexit campaign being based on lies, when you clearly have no objection in principle to false reporting.
What false reporting?

biggles
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by biggles » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:08 pm

truth? there is no truth, just assumptions. and self-interest. and project fear. truth? there is no truth etc etc and EU bullies. they really do not want us to leave and show others how better off they will really be if they, too, leave.

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:11 pm

biggles wrote:truth? there is no truth, just assumptions. and self-interest. and project fear. truth? there is no truth etc etc and EU bullies. they really do not want us to leave and show others how better off they will really be if they, too, leave.
Is your last sentence truth or just assumption?

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:14 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
If it helps you - my comments are evidence yours are opinion.
Full length mirror required!

The old Self confirmation technique!

"What I'm saying is right. And I know it's right. Because I'm the one saying it"

One man's evidence , is another man's conjecture.

In my opinion....

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