Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[RingoMcCartney]

I thought you might have taken a couple of days of to look up what “evidence” means - obviously not!

Come on Ringo end the suspense- what is evidence?

How do you keep an idiot in suspense.



I'll keep you posted.

[RingoMcCartney]

Hey Ringo

How many different people have tried to explain to you that you don't know what evidence is?

How many have done the same with Martin?

Why do you think there's such a difference between the two answers? What do you think that tells us about which of you is the fool?

PS - much as I enjoy it when it comes up from time to time, we both know your theory that we're all one person doesn't stand up under any real scrutiny, don't we?

"How many DIFFERENT people have tried to explain to you that you don't know what evidence is?"

Well the 2 or 3 people that are bleating on about evidence all have the SAME opinion. So it's no surprise is it?

They believe that what may turn out to be short term or reversible business decisions as EVIDENCE that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk.

You cannot provide EVIDENCE from an event that has not happened yet.

As for being "all one person" - you cannot be. Your posts stand out for being uniquely drab.

[RingoMcCartney]

Presumably if Man City drew Barnet at home in the Cup you wouldn’t be able to make a informed prediction on the result as they’ve never played each other before. Meanwhile, the bookies will use the large body of evidence to set the odds, correctly concluding that City are odds on favourite and Barnet the rank outsiders. They can’t predict the result with 100% accuracy, but they use evidence to forecast the most likely result.

Don’t become a bookie Wrongo, you’ll be destitute in days!

Marty believes that past performance guarantees future returns.

He should take a stroll around any race course after a race meet and look on the floor to see the torn betting slips that were "evidence" based forecasts.......

He fails to remember nobody has ever left the EU before.

There is no large body of "evidence".......

Just opinions on either side of the debate.

[LeuvenClaret]

is evidance conclusive Ringo?

[hampsteadclaret]

I have been reading this thread throughout, but have barely contributed to it.

- page 27 and page 28 [so far] set some sort of new record on here, though I'm wary of saying what it is..

[Greenmile]

What's going on? Greenmile seems to be answering for you & now you are answering for aggi & certain posters are answering for Lancasterclaret, some sort of individual voice would be welcoming.

If only Jakub would answer for Jakub, instead of squirming and ducking every question asked of him.

[Greenmile]

"How many DIFFERENT people have tried to explain to you that you don't know what evidence is?"

Well the 2 or 3 people that are bleating on about evidence all have the SAME opinion. So it's no surprise is it?

They believe that what may turn out to be short term or reversible business decisions as EVIDENCE that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk.

You cannot provide EVIDENCE from an event that has not happened yet.

As for being "all one person" - you cannot be. Your posts stand out for being uniquely drab.

“2 or 3”

Looks like you count about as well as you understand basic English.

[Bordeauxclaret]

When you are that drunk you reply to the same post twice within an hour.

[Burnley Ace]

You have an opinion based on forecasts.

It’s an opinion based on EVIDENCE!

Come on Ringo, what is evidence? Tick Tock.

[Colburn_Claret]

No, you did not understand me correctly, I guess we're even.



It sounds increasingly as though I did understand you the first time. Essentially the way you want to fix things is to make them worse first for everyone and then find a compromise that suits both sides but probably won't make things better on the whole for either side. Great plan Baldrick.

I never said it was great, I stated it was the best option.
Of course if you have any better option please share, I'd be delighted to hear how you would negotiate with Brussels, when you can't even get a consensus in the house. If it's a good idea and workable I'd be happy with it.

[Burnley Ace]

Marty believes that past performance guarantees future returns.

He should take a stroll around any race course after a race meet and look on the floor to see the torn betting slips that were "evidence" based forecasts.......

He fails to remember nobody has ever left the EU before.

There is no evidence.......

Just opinions on either side of the debate.

No, past performance provides EVIDENCE that supports predictions of future returns.

There is evidence.........

Evidence that supports opinions on either side of the debate? (Though one side has better evidence than the other)

Come on Ringo you’re avoiding the simple question?
Tick Tock:-)

[Burnley Ace]

"

You cannot provide EVIDENCE from an event that has not happened yet.

You can provide evidence FOR an event that has not happened yet Remember Ringo the sun is coming up tomorrow

Keep squirming!

[Jakubclaret]

If only Jakub would answer for Jakub, instead of squirming and ducking every question asked of him.

The answers have always been there, the problem is you conveniently forget what's been answered & when you are reminded you don't accept the answers as you don't agree with them.

[Colburn_Claret]

There’s plenty of solutions is the rabid Brexiteers would compromise. A customs union would solve the problem for example.

Another solution would be to abandon the whole sorry thing and stay as we are, although I accept that’s a compromise to far for Brexiteers, even the reasonable ones

We voted Leave, being part of the Customs Union isn't leaving.

If they could exclude the free movement of people ,AND draw a line on the sand stating any future alterations to the customs union cannot be passed on to the UK, unless we specifically agree, then there is an outside chance. But anything that leaves Brussels with a say over this country's future is a non starter.

I, and many like me, voted leave to get out from under the EU, there isn't any deal acceptable that doesn't deliver that.

[Greenmile]

The answers have always been there, the problem is you conveniently forget what's been answered & when you are reminded you don't accept the answers as you don't agree with them.

Your lies won’t wash with me any more.

[Lancasterclaret]

Of course if you have any better option please share, I'd be delighted to hear how you would negotiate with Brussels, when you can't even get a consensus in the house. If it's a good idea and workable I'd be happy with it.

The problem is that anything that isn't the unicorn based promises made in 2016 (which are impossible, as the EVIDENCE proves) sends the Brexiteers off on one. And that includes people on here (not really a problem as it means nothing) but more importantly the MPs who are tasked with what is best for the country.

In all honestly, listening to Mark Francois and other members of the ERG is exactly the same as listening to Colburn, Crosspool, Jakub and Ringo.

Thats not a slight on Colburn et al, but I'm using it as example of just how much disinformation is out there, and its a very worrying situation to be in when we are talking about national issues.

Peston nails where we are

https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/?__t ... f=nf&__xts__" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[0]=68.ARBDkC5BgBGTuDS2V42JpCe3r0-K2vmpBaC6hhNt8AzNEf57UleZFEZxOFNnJhZh71HKFYA0rg3KdZL6KQdbu1VtU7tPMcFXVl-GkJmPBbLCCEScIaNaxLxLuuvuo3mfjyR8OG_xjsJDNl2UVgC6w5evGaAvVGV6dkPHionDuztHp6rn4Lj-MWGSk7P11qJx8bKG-9cVizxiBiKLqjUo0v1hL3NG-zDREIjWkuaHlaox9nwz2F8Ekis_ixW4L9XaB_rt2yigdobC3DXDzxcDeRaixUTSf_bvtKqreF_nDFL_vNLNZiwjdUE5iPvg7AY7EA7kyLR3xIXSgFETc32J0vq5

[AndyClaret]

Ireland has been told to put a border in by the EU, or the EU will put a border between Ireland and the EU

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... KKCN1Q31VM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EU throws Ireland under the bus.

[martin_p]

"They can’t PREDICT the result with 100% accuracy, but they use evidence to FORECAST the most likely result."

Finally we're getting somewhere Marty!

As I've been saying right through this thread.

You have an opinion based on forecasts.

Try your hand at fortune telling Marty. You may get something right for once!

So if you were down to your last £100 in the world and we’re told you had to gamble on it on the result of this match, how would you decide who to put it on?

[Lancasterclaret]

No Andy, the UK has decided to throw Ireland under a bus.

You constantly fail to look at this from a non-UK point of view. Don't worry though, the one thing that all Brexiteers are united on is that they don't see that.

[martin_p]

We voted Leave, being part of the Customs Union isn't leaving.

If they could exclude the free movement of people ,AND draw a line on the sand stating any future alterations to the customs union cannot be passed on to the UK, unless we specifically agree, then there is an outside chance. But anything that leaves Brussels with a say over this country's future is a non starter.

I, and many like me, voted leave to get out from under the EU, there isn't any deal acceptable that doesn't deliver that.

Despite the fact that a large number of those campaigning for Leave told us voting leave wouldn’t mean leaving the customs union?

[Colburn_Claret]

Despite the fact that a large number of those campaigning for Leave told us voting leave wouldn’t mean leaving the customs union?

They couldn't promise something out of their control, and I don't recall that promise, although I'm not arguing they didn't.
Being or staying a member of the CU, was always upto Brussels and not us.

[Lancasterclaret]

You don't recall that promise?

Well, there is a shock

[RingoMcCartney]

is evidance conclusive Ringo?

No.

[RingoMcCartney]

“2 or 3”

Looks like you count about as well as you understand basic English.

Like I said.


Drab.

[RingoMcCartney]

Hasn’t the difference already been explained to you?

Evidence - the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid

Opinion - a view or judgment formed about something not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

If it helps you - my comments are EVIDENCE yours are OPINION.

This is you saying your comments are EVIDENCE.

[RingoMcCartney]

It’s an opinion based on EVIDENCE!

Come on Ringo, what is evidence? Tick Tock.

This is you now saying you have an OPINION!

It's make your mind up time. And with a mind as large as yours , it shouldn't take too long.

[Lancasterclaret]

I admire your persistence lads, but take it from me, Ringo does not change his mind whatever you do!

[RingoMcCartney]

You can provide evidence FOR an event that has not happened yet Remember Ringo the sun is coming up tomorrow

Keep squirming!

You can provide evidence of past events. You could provide photographic evidence that the sun HAS risen for , say , the last year, each and every morning.

This evidence can be the basis on which you are able to form an opinion. A forecast. A prediction.

But you cannot provide EVIDENCE for or from an event that has not happened yet.

We have not left the European Union.

Nobody ever has. Therefore, you have no past evidence to provide the basis on which to form an opinion, forcast or opinion.

Claim that what may turn out to be short term or reversible business decisions as EVIDENCE that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk. Is simply an opinion.

If not then do 2 things before I sign off for the weekend.

1, post a photograph of tomorrow's sunrise.


Today.



2, Provide actual evidence that leaving the EU will have a negative impact on the uk.


Now remember it has to be EVIDENCE.



Not any of the following-


supposition, presupposition, presumption, premise, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guess, theory, hypothesis, postulation, deduction, inference, thought, suspicion, assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts .

[Jakubclaret]

The problem is that anything that isn't the unicorn based promises made in 2016 (which are impossible, as the EVIDENCE proves) sends the Brexiteers off on one. And that includes people on here (not really a problem as it means nothing) but more importantly the MPs who are tasked with what is best for the country.

In all honestly, listening to Mark Francois and other members of the ERG is exactly the same as listening to Colburn, Crosspool, Jakub and Ringo.

Thats not a slight on Colburn et al, but I'm using it as example of just how much disinformation is out there, and its a very worrying situation to be in when we are talking about national issues.

Peston nails where we are

https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/?__t ... f=nf&__xts__" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[0]=68.ARBDkC5BgBGTuDS2V42JpCe3r0-K2vmpBaC6hhNt8AzNEf57UleZFEZxOFNnJhZh71HKFYA0rg3KdZL6KQdbu1VtU7tPMcFXVl-GkJmPBbLCCEScIaNaxLxLuuvuo3mfjyR8OG_xjsJDNl2UVgC6w5evGaAvVGV6dkPHionDuztHp6rn4Lj-MWGSk7P11qJx8bKG-9cVizxiBiKLqjUo0v1hL3NG-zDREIjWkuaHlaox9nwz2F8Ekis_ixW4L9XaB_rt2yigdobC3DXDzxcDeRaixUTSf_bvtKqreF_nDFL_vNLNZiwjdUE5iPvg7AY7EA7kyLR3xIXSgFETc32J0vq5

Brexit excites some people, the challenge of change, the information is available & always has been on a ongoing basis when developments have taken place, I don't how you can say there's a lack of information or disinformation, if anything there has been too much information, whether that information has been absorbed or not to your liking is a entirely different matter, brexit won't please everybody because a sizeable minority was opposed to it from the outset, I think of Brexit as a blank canvas it's exciting only if you allow it to be.

[martin_p]

But you cannot provide EVIDENCE for or from an event that has not happened yet.

You absolutely can provide evidence FOR an event that has not happened. If you don't beleive that then you can't believe that the sun will rise tomorrow and you can't believe that the most likely outcome if Man City played barnet is a Man City win.


But thanks for providing evidence that you have no understanding of the word 'evidence', your comments of the subject can be henceforth ignored.

[Lancasterclaret]

Right

Colburn has refused to disclose which information he uses to come to his conclusion. I don't think you have either.

But you are both amazing sure that it will all be ok, despite a lot of opinions/evidence out there.

Pluck and British bulldog spirit can only take you so far. Appreciation of Reality and sensible contingency planning is a far better way of doing something as complex as this.

It has to be done right, if its done wrong and we take a hit, then not only will it be a waste of time (because we will be back in to save our economy) but trust in politicians and democracy (never high, and even less at the moment) will be potentially fatally weakened.

[RingoMcCartney]

So if you were down to your last £100 in the world and we’re told you had to gamble on it on the result of this match, how would you decide who to put it on?

I'd put it on city. Like you, of course.

You believe that what may turn out to be short term or reversible business decisions as EVIDENCE that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk.


Now back to the footy.



What if Barnet won a penalty in the 3rd minute. With the score at 0.0.






Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming,

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not.









Why not?

[RingoMcCartney]

You absolutely can provide evidence FOR an event that has not happened. If you don't BELIEVE that then you can't believe that the sun will rise tomorrow and you can't BELIEVE that the most likely outcome if Man City played barnet is a Man City win.


But thanks for providing evidence that you have no understanding of the word 'evidence', your comments of the subject can be henceforth ignored.

You have no understanding of the difference between the word EVIDENCE and BELIEF.

Yet you interchange them at will.

[martin_p]

I'd put it on city. Like you, of course.

So you’d use evidence to predict the most likely outcome of an event. Finally you understand Wrongo, that’s just what the economic forecasters have done. And it’s the fact the the vast majority of forecasters have used their economic evidence to predict a negative outcome for Brexit that has led myself and many others on this board to conclude it’s a bad idea. You and others have concluded it’s a good idea based (given the lack of evidence to support your view) on feelings and beliefs.

Now you understand the difference maybe we can conclude this discussion (although I realise that’s a forlorn hope).

[martin_p]

You have no understanding of the difference between the word EVIDENCE and BELIEF.

Yet you interchange them at will.

Well for a start I didn’t use the word belief. You’ve no understanding of the English language I’m afraid. You think words have a single context and a single meaning. It makes you impossible to argue against, but I suspect you know that.

[aggi]

Jesus, can someone just buy Ringo a dictionary so all this can be over.

[aggi]

The focus of debate was cheap foreign labour & something along the lines of "jakub could be right businesses will be starting to announce movement of operations abroad" doesnt take a brain surgeon to work out the meaning, glad we cleared that 1 up eventually, no doubt you will bounce back with another warped interpretation of what you actually meant. Circular repetition ensues perpetually.

The discussion was re: businesses dictating to the government (in terms of minimum wage was this example). Businesses are pondering moving abroad for many reasons (mainly our lack of access to the EU post-Brexit and the risks of regulatory divergence). If it was for cheap labour they'd have already gone.

[RingoMcCartney]

So you’d use evidence to predict the MOST LIKELY likely outcome of an event. Finally you understand Wrongo, that’s just what the economic FORECASTERS have done. And it’s the fact the the vast majority of FORECASTERS have used their economic evidence to PREDICT a negative outcome for Brexit that has led myself and many others on this board to conclude it’s a bad idea. You and others have concluded it’s a good idea based (given the lack of evidence to support your view) on feelings and beliefs.

Now you understand the difference maybe we can conclude this discussion (although I realise that’s a forlorn hope).

I answered you question. I'd put my 100 quid on City.



You haven't answered mine.


Barnet get a penalty with the scored 0.0.

Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming, 

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not. 









Why not?

[RingoMcCartney]

Jesus, can someone just buy Ringo a dictionary so all this can be over.

Can somebody just buy a camera for the Ceaseless Remoaners who believe they can photograph tomorrow's sunrise and post it today.

They believe it will rise, I do. But they also believe they can provide evidence of it before it happens.

[martin_p]

I answered you question. I'd put my 100 quid on City.



You haven't answered mine.


Barnet get a penalty with the scored 0.0.

Before there striker even steps up to take it.Would you grab my betting slip and tear it on half claiming, 

"look Ringo! That yet to be taken penalty, is EVIDENCE that city are going to lose ?


If not. 









Why not?

I answered that question over a week ago (post #668 on this thread) and you've ignored it. Look it up.

[martin_p]

They believe it will rise, I do. But they also believe they can provide evidence of it before it happens.

Continue to misquote Wrongo, it's what you do best.

[Lancasterclaret]

I can imagine Ringo as an ancient priest, telling the leaders of a army of the Pharaohs.

"You can't attack tomorrow, I only have an opinion that the Sun God Ra will rise to bless our victory"

[Jakubclaret]

The discussion was re: businesses dictating to the government (in terms of minimum wage was this example). Businesses are pondering moving abroad for many reasons (mainly our lack of access to the EU post-Brexit and the risks of regulatory divergence). If it was for cheap labour they'd have already gone.

Which can only function with cheap foreign labour & centres around immigration, we will eventually get there.

[martin_p]

I can imagine Ringo as an ancient priest, telling the leaders of a army of the Pharaohs.

"You can't attack tomorrow, I only have an opinion that the Sun God Ra will rise to bless our victory"

Wrongo would have been at home in those days as belief is all they had. He'd have been furiously slaughtering livestock to the Sun God Ra to make sure that the sun did come up!

[Tall Paul]

Continue to misquote Wrongo, it's what you do best.

It's a lot easier to argue against somebody's misrepresented position than it is against their real argument.

I believe they call it a straw man.

[Mala591]

Thought for the day:

The EU are refusing to reopen the draft withdrawal agreement BUT they could offer a legally binding addendum/codicil which sets a expiry date on the backstop.

Obviously the ROI would strongly object BUT the EU should remind them that failure to get the withdrawal agreement through the UK parliament will result in a no deal exit and an immediate 'hard border'.

The EU have it within their power to make this decision and they must take the blame if a chaotic no deal Brexit occurs by default.

[Lancasterclaret]

Thought for the day

The EU have now all the EVIDENCE they need that the UK Government is incapable of getting any deal through parliament.

There isn't any point making concessions because the ERG will move the goalposts again.

They are prepared for a "No Deal", we are clearly not.

[aggi]

Which can only function with cheap foreign labour & centres around immigration, we will eventually get there.

It's not that cheap though is it given our minimum wage.

[martin_p]

Thought for the day

The EU have now all the EVIDENCE they need that the UK Government is incapable of getting any deal through parliament.

There isn't any point making concessions because the ERG will move the goalposts again.

They are prepared for a "No Deal", we are clearly not.

Not only that, but the ERG have already indicated they'll only support a full scale renegoiation of the backstop. Mala's suggestion wouldn't get their (nor probably the DUP's) support.

[Lancasterclaret]

I do wonder if any negotiation in history has been conducted in which we can't just walk away to keep the current deal.

We've proper boxed ourselves in to getting either a very bad "No Deal" or a bad deal.