Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[AndyClaret]

I didn't think you would.

https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The British government retains full control over its own border controls."

Can we stop criminals at the border and refuse them entry ?

[Lancasterclaret]

Yes

Next question

[Imploding Turtle]

Can we stop criminals at the border and refuse them entry ?

"The British government retains full control over its own border controls."

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Can we stop criminals at the border and refuse them entry ?

Yeah, but for whatever reason though successive governments haven't been that bothered about doing it.

Same with chucking out illegal immigrants, we are really poor at doing that.

We've made little or no effort to stop low skilled migration from outside of the EU.

It isn't just down to austerity etc, we were crap at it when Labour were throwing money around.

[AndyClaret]

Yes

Next question

Source ?

[TheFamilyCat]

8,000th post

4,672 of those have been Ringo repeating himself.

[Imploding Turtle]

4,672 of those have been Ringo repeating himself.

He's a perpetual notion machine.

[Devils_Advocate]

Source ?

Try looking up Article 27 of the DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States

To summarise the UK has the right to refuse admission to any EU citizen on the grounds of “public policy, public health or public security”.

[Imploding Turtle]

Source ?

Full Fact, which i already provided for you.
Here, i'll link it again.


https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Elizabeth]

I'm sure , like the vast majority of citizens who believe in democracy, I join many who have been uplifted by the enormous support for the Brexit party this last week.
So many extremist remainers , a small number of 'noisy neighbours' in reality, have forgotten about the millions of citizens who voted remain in the referendum and just want Brexit to happen like the 17.4 million UK citizens who voted to leave. And I include many who have contributed to this thread.
So refreshing to see this new party spell it out to the anti Democrats in simple terms. The vote was to leave not how to leave . The betrayal must never be allowed to happen.
Lord Adonis , you have played a blinder.

[Mala591]

Thought for the day:

Should Burnley leave voters register their frustration/dissapointment with Julie Cooper by voting against Labour in the LOCAL elections ?

[tiger76]

Thought for the day:

Should Burnley leave voters register their frustration/dissapointment with Julie Cooper by voting against Labour in the LOCAL elections ?

Why would brexit play any part in a local election campaign,surely issues such as council tax,refuse collection,social care,community centres and other issues should be prevalent,not a national campaigning subject,besides anyone that wants to "protest" about the brexit shambles will get a chance in the European Elections.

I don't live in Burnley,but if i did i'd vote for the best candidate for council regardless of their party.

[Mala591]

Why would brexit play any part in a local election campaign,surely issues such as council tax,refuse collection,social care,community centres and other issues should be prevalent,not a national campaigning subject,besides anyone that wants to "protest" about the brexit shambles will get a chance in the European Elections.

I don't live in Burnley,but if i did i'd vote for the best candidate for council regardless of their party.

On the other hand, an extremely poor Labour vote in the local elections might just send a 'warning message' that ignoring a 'once in a lifetime democratic decision' can have repercussions which reverberate right down to local election level.

Just a thought...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Why would brexit play any part in a local election campaign,surely issues such as council tax,refuse collection,social care,community centres and other issues should be prevalent,not a national campaigning subject,besides anyone that wants to "protest" about the brexit shambles will get a chance in the European Elections.

I don't live in Burnley,but if i did i'd vote for the best candidate for council regardless of their party.

Protesting in an EU election is pretty pointless and can be ignored by the main parties.
Wiping them out in local elections sends a far far stronger message.

[nil_desperandum]

On the other hand, an extremely poor Labour vote in the local elections might just send a 'warning message' that ignoring a 'once in a lifetime democratic decision' can have repercussions which reverberate right down to local election level.

Just a thought...

That might be relevant in different circumstances, but given that there will be EU elections just a few weeks later at which that "message" could be firmly sent, it really doesn't make any sense to register a "protest" vote at local elections that directly affect the things that happen in your local area.
Basically boils down to whether you are happy with local services, current funding from central government, etc. etc. Can't see how voting for the single issue Brexit Party in local elections would make things better for you.

[nil_desperandum]

Protesting in an EU election is pretty pointless and can be ignored by the main parties.
Wiping them out in local elections sends a far far stronger message.

Totally disagree.
The main parties will be looking at the EU elections with great interest.
If Labour campaign on a promise of "Confirmatory Vote" , and Lib Dems, Greens, Change Uk, SNP, Plaid Cymru, etc also include a similar pledge (And / or revoke), then there will be a clear choice between the Brexit / Ukip policy and the rest.
(Just what the Tories will stand for - who knows, [hence they are trying to avoid these elections at all costs])
So, if - using current data - Brexit parties get around 30% and the rest get around 70%, then the Tory led government would have to decide whether to side with the 30% (hard brexiteers) or the 70 %.
The entire "Brexit" exercise has been driven by the survival instincts of the Conservative Party, so they would have to choose sides.
I see the EU elections as being pivotal to the final outcome, (though there's no actual good outcome in the short term thanks to the machinations of Cameron, Farage and Johnson).

[CrosspoolClarets]

There is little reason to suppose that the EU elections won’t have Tory+Brexit+UKIP parties approx 50% and other parties approx 50%.

So the real impact will be whether the parties within those two groupings get panicked about what may happen in a general.

I thus suspect Farage will end up terrifying the Tories but little impact on the Labour side from their rivals.

What that leads to is anyone’s guess. I suspect they will then put Boris in to beat both Farage and Corbyn, realising a liberal Brexit convert like Hunt won’t stem the tide.

The trick to the small parties will be which one (Change, Brexit, Greens, Lib Dem’s) can appeal to a broader range of voters, across both left and right, both socially and economically.

[Lancasterclaret]

Labour are terrified of Farage and the effect he might have, to the extent they are willing to **** off 80% of their support base.

Its beyond mad, but that both main parties at the moment, totally useless.

There is a void, and I hope its filled by a sensible party, rather than the purely nationalist and worse alternatives.

[nil_desperandum]

There is little reason to suppose that the EU elections won’t have Tory+Brexit+UKIP parties approx 50% and other parties approx 50%.
.

I can't imagine how the Tories could poll over 20% (i.e. 50% minus approx 27% (Brexit Party)) when they have no coherent brexit policy to coalesce around.
Presumably they would have to fight these elections on the basis of TM's "deal". On this basis very few people might be expected to vote for them, though I would agree that some people would vote Conservative no matter what they stood for.
In the most recent YouGov poll they were on 15%, but canvassing hasn't started yet, and one would imagine that all the other parties will set out a much clearer pathway forward than they possibly can.

[Lancasterclaret]

Think also that the turnout will be ridiculously high for an European election.

The remain lot in particular have to get their vote out there.

[dsr]

Think also that the turnout will be ridiculously high for an European election.

The remain lot in particular have to get their vote out there.

I doubt it. Last time the European elections were on a different date from the local elections, turnout was down about 10%. Of course the current issues will have an increase effect on the turnout, but it'll still be only those who really care who will turn out.

[nil_desperandum]

Think also that the turnout will be ridiculously high for an European election.

The remain lot in particular have to get their vote out there.

Well you would expect so, but of course, (from what we keep being told), a lot of "Ringo's Cult" won't ever vote again, so that will reduce the turnout, and might swing things a bit!

[Lancasterclaret]

I doubt it. Last time the European elections were on a different date from the local elections, turnout was down about 10%. Of course the current issues will have an increase effect on the turnout, but it'll still be only those who really care who will turn out.

Certainly think the Brexit bunch will be hoping for a low turnout.

[nil_desperandum]

I doubt it. Last time the European elections were on a different date from the local elections, turnout was down about 10%. Of course the current issues will have an increase effect on the turnout, but it'll still be only those who really care who will turn out.

So that's about 17 million remoaners then?

[dsr]

Certainly think the Brexit bunch will be hoping for a low turnout.

I think most of the candidates will be hoping for a high turnout among their won supporters and a low turnout among their rivals'. The Brexit party won't be alone in that.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm hoping that the Brexiteers boycott these European elections.

I mean, what is the point of voting when its not democratic, right?

[SmudgetheClaret]

Cliff edge the remainers already led us over it in 1973..

http://eurotruth.tripod.com/05.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SmudgetheClaret]

I'm hoping that the Brexiteers boycott these European elections"


I bet you are! dream on you lot have destroyed our democratic system that's cast in history....own it..

[SmudgetheClaret]

The boss Nigel Farage is coming to the northwest 4th of May don't miss it ..


https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-brex ... 0820403464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

The boss Nigel Farage is coming to the northwest 4th of May don't miss it ..


https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-brex ... 0820403464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fully cucked.

[elwaclaret]

I'm hoping that the Brexiteers boycott these European elections.

I mean, what is the point of voting when its not democratic, right?

The Brexit party will do as they have done. They will take seats and then disrupt the EU as much as possible. Not helpful, but understandable.

If the Brexit party mop up most of the seats (as I expect) it will further undermine the receding tide of support for a second referendum. Think there is more chance of hall freezing over then them not turning out.

The next General election will be far more interesting, think we will see the reaction to how parliament has acted more there. I expect new parties and independents to really put a bomb under the establishment.

[elwaclaret]

Fully cucked.

May 4th.... bet he turns up dressed as Yoda

[AndyClaret]

Fully cucked.

Fully triggered.

[Imploding Turtle]

Fully triggered.

Show me on the doll where the EU touched you.

[SmudgetheClaret]

May 4th.... bet he turns up dressed as Yoda

Whatever ! you seem a bit triggered it's gonna be rammed packed...

[Lancasterclaret]

The Brexit party will do as they have done. They will take seats and then disrupt the EU as much as possible. Not helpful, but understandable.

If the Brexit party mop up most of the seats (as I expect) it will further undermine the receding tide of support for a second referendum. Think there is more chance of hall freezing over then them not turning out.

The next General election will be far more interesting, think we will see the reaction to how parliament has acted more there. I expect new parties and independents to really put a bomb under the establishment.

Not understandable at all, but hell, if people want to vote for a party in a free and fair election for a party for have told them that the EU is undemocratic, who am I to point out the super massive huge hole in doing that?

[elwaclaret]

Whatever ! you seem a bit triggered it's gonna be rammed packed...

Triggered? Sorry lost me.

I’m one of the few people who doesn’t see ‘Right’ or ‘wrong’... only opinions. I certainly believe Nigel F has As much right to state his case as anyone else. I’m probably one of the few true democrats on here, from what I read. I may disagree with you but I would never deny anyone their right to have their own opinion.

If you look at any political thread you will spot I am regularly accused of being ‘a brexiteer’ I don’t consider myself so, but i did vote for brexit and would do again, purely because historical president suggests it is not going to go well... and I don’t believe it will be long before Europe becomes a toxic environment.

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't think he's worked out that you are 100% on his side.

I thought it was really easy to spot, but apparently not.

[Devils_Advocate]

If you look at any political thread you will spot I am regularly accused of being ‘a brexiteer’ I don’t consider myself so, but i did vote for brexit and would do again.

When I was younger I used to regularly be accused of being 'a thief'. I didn't consider myself so, but I did rob a few things

[Lancasterclaret]

If you look at any political thread you will spot I am regularly accused of being ‘a brexiteer’ I don’t consider myself so, but i did vote for brexit and would do again, purely because historical president suggests it is not going to go well... and I don’t believe it will be long before Europe becomes a toxic environment.

Siri, show me the definition of a Brexiteer.

[Imploding Turtle]

Triggered? Sorry lost me.

I’m one of the few people who doesn’t see ‘Right’ or ‘wrong’... only opinions. I certainly believe Nigel F has As much right to state his case as anyone else. I’m probably one of the few true democrats on here, from what I read. I may disagree with you but I would never deny anyone their right to have their own opinion.

If you look at any political thread you will spot I am regularly accused of being ‘a brexiteer’ I don’t consider myself so, but i did vote for brexit and would do again, purely because historical president suggests it is not going to go well... and I don’t believe it will be long before Europe becomes a toxic environment.

Triggered is a word that the alt-right uses un-ironically whenever you express that you disagree with them in any way whatsoever. The rest of us use it to either mock them. It used to have a real meaning to describe how some people, like PTSD sufferers for example, get when faced with situations that can cause distress.

[SmudgetheClaret]

Triggered? Sorry lost me.

I’m one of the few people who doesn’t see ‘Right’ or ‘wrong’... only opinions. I certainly believe Nigel F has As much right to state his case as anyone else. I’m probably one of the few true democrats on here, from what I read. I may disagree with you but I would never deny anyone their right to have their own opinion.

If you look at any political thread you will spot I am regularly accused of being ‘a brexiteer’ I don’t consider myself so, but i did vote for brexit and would do again, purely because historical president suggests it is not going to go well... and I don’t believe it will be long before Europe becomes a toxic environment.

Sorry elwa read it wrong..

[RingoMcCartney]

Bercow changed the 'process' when it suited him. "If processes don't change then nothing changes......" and refused to change the process when it didn't suit him.

He also chose which indicative votes (motions) to put to parliament. Denied MPs the option of leaving by a certain date whatever the circumstances and allowed ones he favoured. Also allegedly connived with Dominic Grieve at the early stages of the indicative votes.

I'd agree that he's been pivotal. Difference of opinion will be whether that was good or bad.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Marty claimed his role was only " a facilitator" and somebody who cannot act unilaterally.

1. He drove a coach and horses through the centuries of parliamentary procedural precedent and protocol. By chosing to table Dominic Grieves amendment that assumed the outcome of a parliamentary vote before it even took place.

He did this while claiming he "would not be bound by precedent "

3. Hes repeatedly refused to publish the advice he was given by the clerks he apparently chose to ignore.

2. This pulled the rug from under the Governments timetable, reducing it from 30 days to 3.

3, He simultaneously chose not to table a pro brexit amendment that would have put a "sunset clause" in the Irish Backstop that could have got a majority.

4. He made an announcement that ambushed her Government, by not allowing the government to try to have another meaningful vote.

This time, the Commons Speaker claimed parliamentary precedent stretching back to 1604 


5. He controversially simultaneously blocked an amendment, the "malthouse amendment" that was expected to get a majority.

The highly respected former Speaker , Betty Boothroyd, described Bercows behaviour as "disgraceful".

He's expected to be the 1st Speaker not to recieve a peerage for his blatant bias.

He's currently facing a highly unusual vote of no confidence.

I successfully predicted all this would happen following the QC lead independent parliamentary inquiry into bullying in Westminster. It recommended a root and branch reform of the culture in parliament . Beginning with the Speaker himself.

I said his role would be " pivotal "

Women's rights groups were left bewildered when the likes of Emily Thornbury, Jessica Philips and Margaret Beckett came running to defend Bercow and in doing so through decades of campaigning and principles out the window as they put thwarting brexit before equality.

This how the New Statesman saw it-

"If it is Labour MPs’ honest belief that they are actually so tactically inept that the only way they can guarantee not sabotaging their hopes of changing Britain’s trajectory over Brexit is to keep John Bercow in place: 

They predicted in October 2018 that keeping John Bercow in position he would alter the "trajectory of the Brexit process.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... -labour-mp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After Bercow had announced earlier last year that millions would be put aside to pay for EU parliamentary elections that we shouldn't be taking part in. I predicted that the establishment, with Bercow playing a "pivotal role" were going to do everything in there grasp to thwart democracy.

I was told by poster aggi, it was just "contingency plans"

I was told by poster Lancasterclaret something on the lines "that Ringo is on some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory"

I was also told -

"You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the facilitator Wrongo"

How wrong were they.?

Since then, others posters, and to be fair to them a good few Remoaners, agreed that Bercows role had , indeed been "pivotal".

Others , like yourself, have said to Marty, just admit you were wrong and as much as it may irk you, admit Ringo was right. He simply cannot and will not do it.

It's sad really.

[aggi]

So has Bercow forced that second referendum yet?

[elwaclaret]

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Marty claimed his role was only " a facilitator" and somebody who cannot act unilaterally.

1. He drove a coach and horses through the centuries of parliamentary procedural precedent and protocol. By chosing to table Dominic Grieves amendment that assumed the outcome of a parliamentary vote before it even took place.

He did this while claiming he "would not be bound by precedent "

3. Hes repeatedly refused to publish the advice he was given by the clerks he apparently chose to ignore.

2. This pulled the rug from under the Governments timetable, reducing it from 30 days to 3.

3, He simultaneously chose not to table a pro brexit amendment that would have put a "sunset clause" in the Irish Backstop that could have got a majority.

4. He made an announcement that ambushed her Government, by not allowing the government to try to have another meaningful vote.

This time, the Commons Speaker claimed parliamentary precedent stretching back to 1604 


5. He controversially simultaneously blocked an amendment, the "malthouse amendment" that was expected to get a majority.

The highly respected former Speaker , Betty Boothroyd, described Bercows behaviour as "disgraceful".

He's expected to be the 1st Speaker not to recieve a peerage for his blatant bias.

He's currently facing a highly unusual vote of no confidence.

I successfully predicted all this would happen following the QC lead independent parliamentary inquiry into bullying in Westminster. It recommended a root and branch reform of the culture in parliament . Beginning with the Speaker himself.

I said his role would be " pivotal "

Women's rights groups were left bewildered when the likes of Emily Thornbury, Jessica Philips and Margaret Beckett came running to defend Bercow and in doing so through decades of campaigning and principles out the window as they put thwarting brexit before equality.

This how the New Statesman saw it-

"If it is Labour MPs’ honest belief that they are actually so tactically inept that the only way they can guarantee not sabotaging their hopes of changing Britain’s trajectory over Brexit is to keep John Bercow in place: 

They predicted in October 2018 that keeping John Bercow in position he would alter the "trajectory of the Brexit process.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... -labour-mp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After Bercow had announced earlier last year that millions would be put aside to pay for EU parliamentary elections that we shouldn't be taking part in. I predicted that the establishment, with Bercow playing a "pivotal role" were going to do everything in there grasp to thwart democracy.

I was told by poster aggi, it was just "contingency plans"

I was told by poster Lancasterclaret something on the lines "that Ringo is on some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory"

I was also told -

"You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the facilitator Wrongo"

How wrong were they.?

Since then, others posters, and to be fair to them a good few Remoaners, agreed that Bercows role had , indeed been "pivotal".

Others , like yourself, have said to Marty, just admit you were wrong and as much as it may irk you, admit Ringo was right. He simply cannot and will not do it.

It's sad really.

Interesting points and well presented RingoMc, but Bercow is surely demonstrating he is a good speaker? He is a left wing National Socialist.... nationalisation does not fit with staying in the EU, hence he himself is as long a term leaver as J.C., and is trying to do a similar balancing act to fulfil a role he was assigned.....

Very different than his personal view

[RingoMcCartney]

Stop lying about what you’re said (I’ve challenged you numerous time to link the post where I said what you’ve put in that first quote and you can’t do it) and just answer the question.

I'll let you into a little secret Marty.

Having made my prediction that Bercows role would be "pivotal". And being told by you-

You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the facilitator Wrongo

When it actually materialised, and every current affairs programme, TV and radio news channel headlines, countless radio phone - in debates, scores of column inches were devoted to the odious, egotistical Speakers behaviour.

A behaviour that lead to John Craig head of sky news politics, during a discussion with Adam Boulton, actually describing Bercows role as " pivotal ". Even leading to one commentator on LBC as effectively making John Bercow the "unofficial Prime Minister !! As he now seems to be running the show!"

It angered me as Brexiteer. But it did compensate, in a small way, by giving me the satisfaction of being proven to be right. Even having other posters, probably through gritted teeth , agree, I'd been proven right.

But what gives me much more satisfaction. Way way more! Is the fact that you're prepared to fly in the face of pretty much universally accepted opinion, and openly on a public message board, humiliate yourself, on a worryingly regular basis, by refusing to accept I was right.

To go to the extent you've repeatedly gone to. Ignoring friendly advice, from other posters, to just hold your hand up. Refusing to have to good grace to swallow your pride. Digging your heels in more and more indulging in self-flagellation. Has given me an enormous sense of satisfaction and one-upmanship. Far more and beyond the original buzz of being proven right itself!

Thank you Marty.

Have a great weekend

[RingoMcCartney]

So has Bercow forced that second referendum yet?

"Forced" was with hindsight, perhaps the wrong term to use.

Perhaps I should have said "be part of a well organised, extremely well financed establishment and disconnected political class operation to engineer the circumstances in which a 2nd referendum will be brought about"

Bercow is but a pawn. But when the chess game is over, all the pieces are returned to the same sinister box.

I see the War Criminal Tony Bliar has been in talks with EU official, tax and finance chief Pierre Moscovici The same EU officials that have been speaking to a certain Mr Soros at the billionaire boys club in Davos.

The EU has made public a heavily redacted report of the details of The War Criminals meeting. Hiding behind the "EU’s “concept of openness”.

The "concept of openness". That could be straight out of Orwell's 1984......

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11186 ... ans-latest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

I forgot it was weekend release day.

[RingoMcCartney]

Interesting points and well presented RingoMc, but Bercow is surely demonstrating he is a good speaker? He is a left wing National Socialist.... nationalisation does not fit with staying in the EU, hence he himself is as long a term leaver as J.C., and is trying to do a similar balancing act to fulfil a role he was assigned.....

Very different than his personal view

Thanks for the compliment, Genuinely appreciate it.

Corbyn , I agree, is from the eurosceptic labour Old Guard. There's clips, on youtube, of many of them making speeches that could be mistaken for pre referendum Farage arguments. Because of his stance on Europe I also have a suspicion that the establishment will make Corbyns position untenable too. We shall see.

However, Bercow is hardly proving his ability to be balanced by driving around in a motor with a "b******s to Brexit" sticker proudly displaying......

[martin_p]

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Marty claimed his role was only " a facilitator" and somebody who cannot act unilaterally.

1. He drove a coach and horses through the centuries of parliamentary procedural precedent and protocol. By chosing to table Dominic Grieves amendment that assumed the outcome of a parliamentary vote before it even took place.

He did this while claiming he "would not be bound by precedent "

3. Hes repeatedly refused to publish the advice he was given by the clerks he apparently chose to ignore.

2. This pulled the rug from under the Governments timetable, reducing it from 30 days to 3.

3, He simultaneously chose not to table a pro brexit amendment that would have put a "sunset clause" in the Irish Backstop that could have got a majority.

4. He made an announcement that ambushed her Government, by not allowing the government to try to have another meaningful vote.

This time, the Commons Speaker claimed parliamentary precedent stretching back to 1604 


5. He controversially simultaneously blocked an amendment, the "malthouse amendment" that was expected to get a majority.

The highly respected former Speaker , Betty Boothroyd, described Bercows behaviour as "disgraceful".

He's expected to be the 1st Speaker not to recieve a peerage for his blatant bias.

He's currently facing a highly unusual vote of no confidence.

I successfully predicted all this would happen following the QC lead independent parliamentary inquiry into bullying in Westminster. It recommended a root and branch reform of the culture in parliament . Beginning with the Speaker himself.

I said his role would be " pivotal "

Women's rights groups were left bewildered when the likes of Emily Thornbury, Jessica Philips and Margaret Beckett came running to defend Bercow and in doing so through decades of campaigning and principles out the window as they put thwarting brexit before equality.

This how the New Statesman saw it-

"If it is Labour MPs’ honest belief that they are actually so tactically inept that the only way they can guarantee not sabotaging their hopes of changing Britain’s trajectory over Brexit is to keep John Bercow in place: 

They predicted in October 2018 that keeping John Bercow in position he would alter the "trajectory of the Brexit process.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... -labour-mp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After Bercow had announced earlier last year that millions would be put aside to pay for EU parliamentary elections that we shouldn't be taking part in. I predicted that the establishment, with Bercow playing a "pivotal role" were going to do everything in there grasp to thwart democracy.

I was told by poster aggi, it was just "contingency plans"

I was told by poster Lancasterclaret something on the lines "that Ringo is on some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory"

I was also told -

"You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the facilitator Wrongo"

How wrong were they.?

Since then, others posters, and to be fair to them a good few Remoaners, agreed that Bercows role had , indeed been "pivotal".

Others , like yourself, have said to Marty, just admit you were wrong and as much as it may irk you, admit Ringo was right. He simply cannot and will not do it.

It's sad really.

Same old crap, still haven’t answered my very simple question. If Bercow wasn’t speaker what would be different about Brexit today?