V.A.R and the clarets

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happyclaret17
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V.A.R and the clarets

Post by happyclaret17 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:49 pm

was golfing this morning with another claret. He is a season ticket holder. We were talking about V.A.R and how beneficial it could be for the clarets.
Watford...man utd and Southampton games may have yielded up to 6 points more. I am sure that figure over a season will be into double figures....next season that could be better than any new signing we might make...utc.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Moorite » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:03 pm

Knowing our luck, VAR will go against us more often than not. We will probably get the record for the most overturned penalties.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by happyclaret17 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:11 pm

sorry but what's a penalty?

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:17 pm

We seem to get biased referees and I'd be more interested in whether those referees are brought into the office and warned about their actions and risk losing their jobs if they do it again.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by taio » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:23 pm

Personally think VAR will benefit the so-called biggest clubs more.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:25 pm

I reckon we will get more penalties against and red cards as a result - it is designed to help the big teams and tv companies and it will

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by happyclaret17 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:26 pm

I think the bigger clubs have far more influence on referee when at home...also they tend to attract the best players from the south american and european diving teams....personally I think the game will be fairer for the so called lesser clubs.
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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:27 pm

That "mistake" on Saturday was, in my opinion, nothing of the sort - there was absolutely no way either of the two relevant officials could have missed it. I hate the idea that one or both knew damned well it was a penalty but, for some reason couldn't or wouldn't give it.
I thought Dyche was remarkably restrained in his post-match interviews, he didn't even refer to the cheats/inept officials by name. He's right, though, something has to change : as we saw, yet again, with Aguero, the only explanation possible is that officials are either instructed to give/avoid certain decisions or, just as bad, they are now unable to officiate properly at the high tempo of PL football without the immediate introduction of VAR.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by happyclaret17 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:35 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:That "mistake" on Saturday was, in my opinion, nothing of the sort - there was absolutely no way either of the two relevant officials could have missed it. I hate the idea that one or both knew damned well it was a penalty but, for some reason couldn't or wouldn't give it.
I thought Dyche was remarkably restrained in his post-match interviews, he didn't even refer to the cheats/inept officials by name. He's right, though, something has to change : as we saw, yet again, with Aguero, the only explanation possible is that officials are either instructed to give/avoid certain decisions or, just as bad, they are now unable to officiate properly at the high tempo of PL football without the immediate introduction of VAR.
....
I dont think thats the case personally....Southampton and us are not the biggest teams in the league but on this occasion fortune or ineptitude favoured them...it had to be the referees assistants call for me as well.....I also think that once Barnes had collided with the keeper he got a touch theatrical and that may not have helped.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by summitclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:41 pm

VAR is great in principle. However it's use in the world cup final was a joke and clearly biased towards France. If that was a pen var will only favour the big 6 here.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by AndyClaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:45 pm

Heaton has said that the ref's explanation was that Barnes was "off balance" when he went down, that's why he didn't give it, which doesn't explain why he booked him for diving.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by thatdberight » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:47 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ... as we saw, yet again, with Aguero...
What did we see?

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by dougcollins » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:50 pm

I can pretty much guarantee that when/if VAR comes in we will have more penalties awarded against us than ever before. Contact..
Be careful what you wish for.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:51 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:The only explanation possible is that officials are either instructed to give/avoid certain decisions or, just as bad, they are now unable to officiate properly at the high tempo of PL football
There is another explanation but, it is very unpalatable. Similar to Steve Smith, the ex-Australian Cricket Captain. I can't see any other explanation.

VAR? Sooner the better!

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by thatdberight » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:02 pm

I think the "VAR will save us" hopers will be very disappointed.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by yorkyclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:34 pm

As long as there are terms that are open to interpretation such as 'clear and obvious' you can guarantee it will just be another level of safety to make sure they get the result they want, the only way it will ever be fair is if they make a computer programme to make the decisions. Interesting to see the consecutive games without a penalty graphic on MOTD, only the longest 5 runs were given, they are for, Wimbledon, QPR, Burnley, Palace and Swansea. Would you not expect the clubs that have spent most time in the PL, to take most of the places? Anyway at least we now have a striker who knows some of the elite club tricks, like if you see an arm up in the box, that is your target, not a flick on to your teammate.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:37 pm

VAR can't be as bad as the nonsense that's being passed off as "refereeing" at the moment. Far too many er, errors are being made and then ignored by the authorities.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:40 pm

"I thought it came off my chest but now I see it on TV, it was a handball."

Aguero's comment re his second "goal".

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by thatdberight » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:16 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:"I thought it came off my chest but now I see it on TV, it was a handball."

Aguero's comment re his second "goal".
It wasn't and VAR would have confirmed that goal.

Put it another way, if that was a Burnley player making a block and it bounced up and hit his arm like that, would you be happy to see a penalty given?

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:53 pm

thatdberight wrote:It wasn't and VAR would have confirmed that goal.

Put it another way, if that was a Burnley player making a block and it bounced up and hit his arm like that, would you be happy to see a penalty given?
Seeing as the handball law is interpreted by referees entirely differently than how it is written in the laws of the game, I think any contact with the hand or arm that results directly in a goal being scored or prevented should result in a free kick or penalty to the opponent.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:57 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Seeing as the handball law is interpreted by referees entirely differently than how it is written in the laws of the game, I think any contact with the hand or arm that results directly in a goal being scored or prevented should result in a free kick or penalty to the opponent.
From all accounts that will happen next season --watch this space!
IFAB are voting on new proposals at their meeting on 2 March and the handball law and its interpretation are on the agenda, one thing being discussed is that if a goal is scored as a result of a handball, even if it is accidental, then the goal should be disallowed.
Last edited by Ashingtonclaret46 on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:59 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:From all accounts that will happen next season --watch this space!
Interesting. Is that just for handballs leading to or preventing goals or generally any contact between hand and ball?

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by JarrowClaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:00 pm

Not sure about other games but the Southampton game I don’t think would have been affected we would have got the first penalty but not the later one but hey it is academic as Southampton may not have scored had we got the first pen.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:23 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Interesting. Is that just for handballs leading to or preventing goals or generally any contact between hand and ball?
This was reported in The Telegraph in November:-

Football’s lawmakers have agreed that the rule on handball needs to be rewritten to avoid punishment for incidents when it has happened accidentally.

Telegraph Sport revealed earlier this month that the International FA Board (Ifab) was to discuss rewriting the rule to remove the word “deliberate” as part of a raft other measures.

At its annual business meeting in Glasgow Ifab said the issue of handball was “debated at length” with a “more precise and detailed wording for the different types of handball offences” needed and with an emphasis on “non-deliberate” handballs. Ifab has agreed that the rules of the game have to be clearer.

“The most significant clarifications relate to ‘non-deliberate’ handball situations, where there is an unfair ‘outcome/benefit’ due to the ball making contact with a player’s hand/arm,” it said.

There is a constant debate over what is considered deliberate handball with penalties often awarded when the ball hits a defender’s hand at point-blank range.

It appears that the change would remove the word “deliberately” and define handball as to do with the hand or arm being in an unnatural position at the point of contact. There has to be agreement as to what constitutes an unnatural position.
The handball law has become a regular point of debate in football
The handball law has become a regular point of debate in football Credit: OFFSIDE

One proposal is for it to be defined as if the ball strikes the arm above shoulder height. It would also be an offence if the ball hits the arm below shoulder height but in an unnatural position, which could be defined as more than eight o’clock or four o’clock from the body. Any goal scored after striking the arm of an attacking player would be disallowed.

Ifab have also put forward new proposals – to be voted at its annual general meeting on March 2 – that substitutes will have to leave the pitch at the nearest goal-line or sideline instead of walking to their technical area. This is to avoid timewasting.

Other proposals include abolishing the “ABBA” format for penalty shoot-outs. In that system ‘team A’ take the first penalty, ‘team B’ the second and third, team A the fourth and fifth and so on until each has taken five rather than simply alternating. The sequence continues if the shootout then goes to sudden death. It has been found to be too complicated.

Other discussions included measures to stop attacking players causing disruption in the defensive wall at free kicks — a situation which often leads to scuffles and arguments and introducing yellow and red cards for team officials.

There will also be changes to the dropped ball procedure, goalkeepers only being required to have one foot on the goal-line when a penalty is taken and the ball will no longer have to leave the penalty area at goal-kicks.
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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by scouseclaret » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:13 pm

It’s an interesting question. You’d have to think that with the number of decisions that have gone against us, we’ll be net beneficiaries of VAR, and it will certainly even things up a bit when we play away at places like Old Trafford.

That said, there’s also a danger that it will play into the hands of the “there was contact so he had a right to go down” brigade, which will only encourage the big boys to hone their diving skills even further.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Ric_C » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:23 am

I thought it was hilarious to see Koscielny desperately trying to scramble the ball off the line as Aguero handles it in.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by gtclaret » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:50 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:That "mistake" on Saturday was, in my opinion, nothing of the sort - there was absolutely no way either of the two relevant officials could have missed it. I hate the idea that one or both knew damned well it was a penalty but, for some reason couldn't or wouldn't give it.
I thought Dyche was remarkably restrained in his post-match interviews, he didn't even refer to the cheats/inept officials by name. He's right, though, something has to change : as we saw, yet again, with Aguero, the only explanation possible is that officials are either instructed to give/avoid certain decisions or, just as bad, they are now unable to officiate properly at the high tempo of PL football without the immediate introduction of VAR.
I fully understand that sentiment, VAR should not have been required in this instance, the linesman had a clear view of it

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by houseboy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:54 am

Interestingly Mark Clattenberg has said he thinks the only reason Barnes didn't get sent off for his reaction is because the ref realised his error and didn't want to compound his mistake by making things worse. Very possibly true. So why didn't he change his mind?

Incidentally I've been trying to show a mate at work the penalty incident because he's not seen it but I can't find it online, anyone have a link to a video of the incident, can find loads of the one we were given but none for the 'disallowed' one.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by duncandisorderly » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:25 am

Once the ref has booked barnes, can he changed his mind and rescind the booking and award the penalty?
I thought a booking was a bit like a full stop in these situations - that's that and even the ref wanted to change his mind he now couldn't.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:32 am

Has to be said that even though it was a terrible refereeing decision, Barnes was very lucky not to get sent off.

I suspect that the frustration of not getting the rub of the green for a couple of seasons contributed to release of a lot of pent up emotion, but he needs to avoid doing that in the future.
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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by duncandisorderly » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:36 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Has to be said that even though it was a terrible refereeing decision, Barnes was very lucky not to get sent off.

I suspect that the frustration of not getting the rub of the green for a couple of seasons contributed to release of a lot of pent up emotion, but he needs to avoid doing that in the future.

I think it's more likely what houseboy said Clattenburg said - a player doesn't react like that if he's dived, and Barnes went straight for the liner, not the ref, so I think Taylor realised he'd cocked up massively. To send him off would have compounded his own mistake and highlighted it further.

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Re: V.A.R and the clarets

Post by rob63 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:11 pm

dougcollins wrote:I can pretty much guarantee that when/if VAR comes in we will have more penalties awarded against us than ever before. Contact..
Be careful what you wish for.
Yes, I agree. i watch a lot of European football on TV & I've noticed that since the introduction of VAR the number of penalties given has increased markedly. I'm also concerned that VAR systems seem to vary from country to country, surely UEFA should have a standardised system ready to roll out to countries who want to use it otherwise inconsistencies will arise in UEFA tournaments adding fuel to the arguments of those who oppose it's introduction.

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