Had Barnes been sent off.....

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
ŽižkovClaret
Posts: 6962
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:50 pm
Been Liked: 2145 times
Has Liked: 3063 times
Location: Praha
Contact:

Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:42 am

I find myself wondering, had Barnes been given a 2nd yellow for his reaction, would there have been crowd trouble? The whole ground seemed pretty angry by the denied penalty for a start, and being right in front of where the more vociferous support tends to be, i do wonder what might have happened?

summitclaret
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 826 times
Has Liked: 1307 times
Location: burnley

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by summitclaret » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:50 am

His reaction was ott despite an obvious travesty. No of his teamates got to him to calm him down. Lucky boy imo.
This user liked this post: Lancasterclaret

LoveCurryPies
Posts: 4287
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:00 am
Been Liked: 1599 times
Has Liked: 679 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by LoveCurryPies » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:55 am

Love his passion and determination that he plays with but he needs to be more professional at times like that. Risking a red card might of cost us the game.

claptrappers_union
Posts: 5757
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 1747 times
Has Liked: 345 times
Location: The Banana Stand

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:59 am

I don't think there would've been crowd trouble, but Barnes was very lucky to stay on the pitch. He should've gone to be fair.

Silkyskills1
Posts: 5841
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:39 pm
Been Liked: 1678 times
Has Liked: 2513 times
Location: Rawtenstall

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Silkyskills1 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:32 pm

it would have highlighted the paucity of attacking players at our disposal for one game at least.

bobinho
Posts: 9247
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:48 pm
Been Liked: 4070 times
Has Liked: 6536 times
Location: Burnley

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by bobinho » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:36 pm

I have often wondered if a game so could be so badly managed and refereed, whether the management team would remove the players from the pitch and refuse to play?

Now that WOULD put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 17915
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 3841 times
Has Liked: 2065 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:41 pm

There could of been objects thrown etc as it was on edge. Started when the Southampton player didn't get booked.
Burnley players seemed to be chasing Saints players around looking for revenge like would happen 20 years ago.
Thankfully it didn't come to it.

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by claretspice » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:45 pm

Taylor has been inevitably criticised for a really poor decision to deny the penalty and card Barnes for diving. However, I'm pretty sure the only reason Barnes remained on the pitch is that Taylor recognised from Barnes' (and others') reaction that he'd probably made a mistake, and decided that the only way to avoid compounding his original error was to take a liberal approach to the rules which strictly required him to send Barnes off.

In my opinion, the ref deserves a bit of credit for that, because he may well get himself into more trouble with the refereeing authorities for that than for his original mistake (which makes sense because one is a genuine mistake to an incident in real time, the other is a calculated decision taken with the benefit of thinking time following the tirade).

As for Barnes, his frustration and sense of injustice was entirely fair enough, but he's paid many thousands of pounds a week to keep control of his emotions and he's simply got to do better than that. You don't see that sort of reaction in any other sport and its rightly being clamped down on in football.
These 3 users liked this post: IWOODLOVETT CoolClaret PaintYorkClaretnBlue

Bordeauxclaret
Posts: 10272
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:36 pm
Been Liked: 3327 times
Has Liked: 1942 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:48 pm

Like most others I’m saving my rioting for Brexit so probably not.
This user liked this post: Pimlico_Claret

houseboy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
Been Liked: 2238 times
Has Liked: 1617 times
Location: Baxenden

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by houseboy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:49 pm

Barnes stayed on the pitch because, according to the thoughts of Mark Clattenberg, the referee probably realised his gross error of judgement and was lenient with Barnes' outburst. I feel there may have been some trouble in certain sections of the crowd. If it had been in South America the ref would have been lucky to escape with his life. Regardless of the final result had the penalty been given (there is no guarantee we would have gone on to win it) it was still one of the worst ref decisions I have ever seen in my life, really.

For what it's worth, and being honest, I think I would have been less restrained than Barnes was, I don't think I could have handled that situation at all given my short fuse. Dreadful.

Incidentally, given the nature of football crowds generally, if anything had kicked off I would still have blamed the ref. You cannot make stupid decisions like that and think it's fine. The ref was a tad out of position but why was the linesman not consulted and why was he (the lino) too spineless to overule a decision he had a perfect view of?

This one will go down in Burnley FC folklore I think.

ashtonlongsider
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 493 times
Has Liked: 162 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by ashtonlongsider » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:50 pm

Barnes showed how much he cares. Thanks Ash, we are in safe hands with players like you.

summitclaret
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 826 times
Has Liked: 1307 times
Location: burnley

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by summitclaret » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:57 pm

bobinho wrote:I have often wondered if a game so could be so badly managed and refereed, whether the management team would remove the players from the pitch and refuse to play?

Now that WOULD put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Anyone that did would be deducted lots of points unless it was a top 6 er.

However the next time we have moss and he gives a biased pen we might be tempted

houseboy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
Been Liked: 2238 times
Has Liked: 1617 times
Location: Baxenden

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by houseboy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:58 pm

claretspice wrote:Taylor has been inevitably criticised for a really poor decision to deny the penalty and card Barnes for diving. However, I'm pretty sure the only reason Barnes remained on the pitch is that Taylor recognised from Barnes' (and others') reaction that he'd probably made a mistake, and decided that the only way to avoid compounding his original error was to take a liberal approach to the rules which strictly required him to send Barnes off.

In my opinion, the ref deserves a bit of credit for that, because he may well get himself into more trouble with the refereeing authorities for that than for his original mistake (which makes sense because one is a genuine mistake to an incident in real time, the other is a calculated decision taken with the benefit of thinking time following the tirade).

As for Barnes, his frustration and sense of injustice was entirely fair enough, but he's paid many thousands of pounds a week to keep control of his emotions and he's simply got to do better than that. You don't see that sort of reaction in any other sport and its rightly being clamped down on in football.
Don't agree with your last paragraph. I'll bet there is nothing in his contract that says you must keep control of your emotions, in fact quite the opposite, and even at a million pounds an hour if you are passionate then no amount of money is going to take that away. I have never been Barnes' biggest fan but his main attribute is the very thing you suggest he should control, take that away and you don't have a great deal left. Barnes is a big, bold ball of passion and that is his asset, he scares defenders and makes a massive nuisance of himself, he is Burnleys version of the Incerdible Hulk, let him off his lead and watch what happens. I am warming to him and he has been outstanding of late but to curb his emotions in any way would be to massively reduce his effectiveness. He plays a bit close to the wind at times but would any of us have him any other way?

By the way I agree 100% with the rest of your post, my thoughts entirely.
These 2 users liked this post: bobinho ten bellies

alf_resco
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:23 pm
Been Liked: 176 times
Has Liked: 52 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by alf_resco » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:59 pm

ashtonlongsider wrote:Barnes showed how much he cares. Thanks Ash, we are in safe hands with players like you.
And should be repeat his antics, he'll most likely be given a straight red, a three-match ban and probably also be had up before an FA panel.
Just what we need.
Not.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by tiger76 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:12 pm

alf_resco wrote:And should be repeat his antics, he'll most likely be given a straight red, a three-match ban and probably also be had up before an FA panel.
Just what we need.
Not.
There's a fine line between passion and indiscipline,Ash pushes the boundaries but more often than not stays on the right side of the line.

However much as i can understand his frustration at the 'penalty' call,on another day he could have seen red very easily,i definitely think the situation played a part in Taylor producing a yellow.

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by claretspice » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:14 pm

houseboy wrote:Don't agree with your last paragraph. I'll bet there is nothing in his contract that says you must keep control of your emotions, in fact quite the opposite, and even at a million pounds an hour if you are passionate then no amount of money is going to take that away. I have never been Barnes' biggest fan but his main attribute is the very thing you suggest he should control, take that away and you don't have a great deal left. Barnes is a big, bold ball of passion and that is his asset, he scares defenders and makes a massive nuisance of himself, he is Burnleys version of the Incerdible Hulk, let him off his lead and watch what happens. I am warming to him and he has been outstanding of late but to curb his emotions in any way would be to massively reduce his effectiveness. He plays a bit close to the wind at times but would any of us have him any other way?

By the way I agree 100% with the rest of your post, my thoughts entirely.
I bet there will be a clause in his contract about acting with professionalism and something similar, which would cover not losing control of his emotions in that situation. Same clause that would enable the club to fine him for throwing his toys out of the pram.

But anyway, I clearly rate Barnes more highly than you. I like him as a player and think he's got more ability than just being an angry man on the field. He plays on the edge, but he's got to keep himself from going over the edge. There are rugby players whose jobs involve showing a lot more aggression on the field than Barnes ever needs to show to do his job, and they don't ever confront officials like Barnes did.

Longside4evr
Posts: 2502
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:34 am
Been Liked: 519 times
Has Liked: 266 times
Location: Malaga Spain

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Longside4evr » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:19 pm

I would rather Barnes has he his regardless of his actions on Saturday
I would have been the same as i was like thousands of others in the stands reacting to that awful decision
Take Barnes aggression away and it would steel his game its how he plays

tybfc
Posts: 3326
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:21 pm
Been Liked: 1304 times
Has Liked: 318 times
Location: Accrington

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by tybfc » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:26 pm

I would never change anything about Barnes.

He never gets a sniff out of the officials and never has had whilst he has been at Burnley so it is no wonder that he is totally frustrated when a stone wall penalty is not given about ten yards away from one of the most incompetent set of officials to ever set foot on the earth.

Ashley Barnes will have a short career by the very nature of his game and will be judged on the goals he scores and chances he provides.

Is it any wonder that he called the asst ref whatever he called him?

And no you don't see it in rugby because they don't have the muppets refereeing their games that we do.

And Ash will be fired up for Brighton.
This user liked this post: dougcollins

Ashingtonclaret46
Posts: 3771
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am
Been Liked: 1828 times
Has Liked: 2613 times
Location: Ashington, Northumberland

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:29 pm

Put quite simply ---the officials make a major blunder by not giving a penalty and then accuse the player of cheating and he is expected not to be upset by that fact.

Interesting thought isn't it? It is like going into a shop and buying something and then being accused of shoplifting, I'm sure that we would all accept that as par for the course and not cause a fuss, however we expect a player not to react to wrongly being accused of cheating.

As far as the language etc. is concerned, I took this up with the FA many years ago, as Secretary of my local league, because they were insisting that referees in local leagues should be dismissing players for foul and abusive. I pointed out that the example had to come from the top and that that is something which they should address.

I was told in no uncertain terms that the purge had to start at the bottom and it would then filter through to the top level. They insisted that the language used at the top level was industrial and was in their place of work so that nothing would be done to curtail this because it was acceptable and all part of the game at that level. We have all seen many, many players giving it large to officials without any sanction. It is yet another area of the game that does need addressing, however, it is obvious that nothing will be done ----apart from if a player sarcastically applauds a caution he is given!
These 2 users liked this post: dpinsussex Rick_Muller

dpinsussex
Posts: 3554
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am
Been Liked: 1047 times
Has Liked: 1187 times
Location: Reading

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by dpinsussex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:35 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Put quite simply ---the officials make a major blunder by not giving a penalty and then accuse the player of cheating and he is expected not to be upset by that fact.

Interesting thought isn't it? It is like going into a shop and buying something and then being accused of shoplifting, I'm sure that we would all accept that as par for the course and not cause a fuss, however we expect a player not to react to wrongly being accused of cheating.

As far as the language etc. is concerned, I took this up with the FA many years ago, as Secretary of my local league, because they were insisting that referees in local leagues should be dismissing players for foul and abusive. I pointed out that the example had to come from the top and that that is something which they should address.

I was told in no uncertain terms that the purge had to start at the bottom and it would then filter through to the top level. They insisted that the language used at the top level was industrial and was in their place of work so that nothing would be done to curtail this because it was acceptable and all part of the game at that level. We have all seen many, many players giving it large to officials without any sanction. It is yet another area of the game that does need addressing, however, it is obvious that nothing will be done ----apart from if a player sarcastically applauds a caution he is given!
Does that mean as soon as a player is getting paid then it is acceptable??

I have heard the same tbh

AB was wrong with his actions but if the simple decision had been made correctly I can guarantee he wouldn't have reacted like that.
This user liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46

Rileybobs
Posts: 16684
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6895 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:42 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Put quite simply ---the officials make a major blunder by not giving a penalty and then accuse the player of cheating and he is expected not to be upset by that fact.

Interesting thought isn't it? It is like going into a shop and buying something and then being accused of shoplifting, I'm sure that we would all accept that as par for the course and not cause a fuss, however we expect a player not to react to wrongly being accused of cheating.

As far as the language etc. is concerned, I took this up with the FA many years ago, as Secretary of my local league, because they were insisting that referees in local leagues should be dismissing players for foul and abusive. I pointed out that the example had to come from the top and that that is something which they should address.

I was told in no uncertain terms that the purge had to start at the bottom and it would then filter through to the top level. They insisted that the language used at the top level was industrial and was in their place of work so that nothing would be done to curtail this because it was acceptable and all part of the game at that level. We have all seen many, many players giving it large to officials without any sanction. It is yet another area of the game that does need addressing, however, it is obvious that nothing will be done ----apart from if a player sarcastically applauds a caution he is given!
Ash, are you able to clarify whether a player can pick up a second yellow card before the first one has been shown? Barnes' dissent was before he had been actually shown the card and I would be surprised if you could be shown the second yellow without being cautioned.

dpinsussex
Posts: 3554
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am
Been Liked: 1047 times
Has Liked: 1187 times
Location: Reading

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by dpinsussex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:45 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Ash, are you able to clarify whether a player can pick up a second yellow card before the first one has been shown? Barnes' dissent was before he had been actually shown the card and I would be surprised if you could be shown the second yellow without being cautioned.
Technically no.

That said how would anyone in the crowd know what order the cards were for?
This user liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by claretspice » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:49 pm

tybfc wrote: And no you don't see it in rugby because they don't have the muppets refereeing their games that we do.
Ty - if you think that rugby referees definitely make fewer mistakes than football ones - you're wrong.

To use one example, England were nearly cost the 2003 world cup because of a referee who didn't get what was happening in the scrum. But I didn't see a single England player lose his discipline towards a ref. Just as I've never seen a top class cricket go and do what Barnes did to an umpire - even, for example, when an umpire has turned down a claim from a fielder for a low catch (which is effectively the same accusation of cheating).

Whatever the provocation, Barnes has to keep his cool. Dyche as good as said this to the press, so you can be he made the point strongly behind closed doors.

agreenwood
Posts: 3095
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:22 pm
Been Liked: 1712 times
Has Liked: 269 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by agreenwood » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:50 pm

If a crowd ever reacts violently to a decision on a football pitch and a referee is blamed for that disorder, there’s something seriously wrong.

Taylor made a mistake. I’m sure he didn’t do it deliberately and it’d never be a reason for a crowd to do anything more than shout their frustration.

Rileybobs
Posts: 16684
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6895 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:51 pm

dpinsussex wrote:Technically no.

That said how would anyone in the crowd know what order the cards were for?
Cheers dp. The cards would be shown in order of the offence though wouldn't they. He couldn't be booked for dissent before simulation surely? And if he hasn't been shown the yellow card for the original offence then as you've pointed out above he can't be booked for dissent. Barnes' dissent stopped after he was shown the yellow card, his dissenting was before the card was shown.

dpinsussex
Posts: 3554
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am
Been Liked: 1047 times
Has Liked: 1187 times
Location: Reading

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by dpinsussex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:01 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Cheers dp. The cards would be shown in order of the offence though wouldn't they. He couldn't be booked for dissent before simulation surely? And if he hasn't been shown the yellow card for the original offence then as you've pointed out above he can't be booked for dissent. Barnes' dissent stopped after he was shown the yellow card, his dissenting was before the card was shown.
Let's hope he was booked for dissent. The reason being that if somehow the referee says "he didnt see" the offinabus then the FA could take retrospective action.
How u could say you didnt see it would be virtually impossible. However stranger things have happened in football.

For info in case anyone doesn't recognise the term.
OFFINABUS - Offensive, Insulting or Abusive Language.

Ashingtonclaret46
Posts: 3771
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am
Been Liked: 1828 times
Has Liked: 2613 times
Location: Ashington, Northumberland

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:04 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Cheers dp. The cards would be shown in order of the offence though wouldn't they. He couldn't be booked for dissent before simulation surely? And if he hasn't been shown the yellow card for the original offence then as you've pointed out above he can't be booked for dissent. Barnes' dissent stopped after he was shown the yellow card, his dissenting was before the card was shown.
You have summed it up perfectly RIleybobs, however, it would still have been easy for the referee to change his mind and issue a red for the dissent shown which included foul and abusive towards an official, however, he was obviously told that the caution was for simulation.
It was all a complete mess and, as Zizkov queried, it could quite easily have led to some misdemeanours from that section of the crowd which could have resulted in further problems.
Poor decision from the officials, very bad reaction from Ashley because of it and, fortunately, all ended up without any serious consequences apart from the possible impact on the result of the game.

dpinsussex
Posts: 3554
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am
Been Liked: 1047 times
Has Liked: 1187 times
Location: Reading

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by dpinsussex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:06 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:You have summed it up perfectly RIleybobs, however, it would still have been easy for the referee to change his mind and issue a red for the dissent shown which included foul and abusive towards an official, however, he was obviously told that the caution was for simulation.
It was all a complete mess and, as Zizkov queried, it could quite easily have led to some misdemeanours from that section of the crowd which could have resulted in further problems.
Poor decision from the officials, very bad reaction from Ashley because of it and, fortunately, all ended up without any serious consequences apart from the possible impact on the result of the game.
Come on Ash. Cant be sent off for dissent. Yellow card offence.
OFFINABUS is the red card offence. :) :)
You should know better :) :)
This user liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46

Rileybobs
Posts: 16684
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6895 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:06 pm

dpinsussex wrote:Let's hope he was booked for dissent. The reason being that if somehow the referee says "he didnt see" the offinabus then the FA could take retrospective action.
How u could say you didnt see it would be virtually impossible. However stranger things have happened in football.

For info in case anyone doesn't recognise the term.
OFFINABUS - Offensive, Insulting or Abusive Language.
But he can't have been booked for dissent as the referee blew his whistle and stopped play whilst the ball was active. Had the referee decided it was neither a penalty or a dive he would have waited for the ball to go into touch and give a goal kick.

dpinsussex
Posts: 3554
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am
Been Liked: 1047 times
Has Liked: 1187 times
Location: Reading

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by dpinsussex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:08 pm

Rileybobs wrote:But he can't have been booked for dissent as the referee blew his whistle and stopped play whilst the ball was active. Had the referee decided it was neither a penalty or a dive he would have waited for the ball to go into touch and give a goal kick.
Lets play devils advocate. His decision could have been a foul on the keeper. Therefore stopped play. Ash demands a pen and goes on a rant. Gets booked for dissent.

Not saying this is what happened but would allow for your timeline of events detailed above.

Ashingtonclaret46
Posts: 3771
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:15 am
Been Liked: 1828 times
Has Liked: 2613 times
Location: Ashington, Northumberland

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:11 pm

dpinsussex wrote:Come on Ash. Cant be sent off for dissent. Yellow card offence.
OFFINABUS is the red card offence. :) :)
You should know better :) :)
Brain fade!! To be honest dp, I have been away from this aspect of the game now for over 13 years and I often wonder if 90% of the Laws of the Game have changed duing this time ---it certainly seems to be the case and is not helped by the media and 'well-informed' pundits!
This user liked this post: dpinsussex

dpinsussex
Posts: 3554
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am
Been Liked: 1047 times
Has Liked: 1187 times
Location: Reading

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by dpinsussex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:14 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Brain fade!! To be honest dp, I have been away from this aspect of the game now for over 13 years and I often wonder if 90% of the Laws of the Game have changed duing this time ---it certainly seems to be the case and is not helped by the media and 'well-informed' pundits!
I love the pundits classic "dangerous tackle and should have been cautioned"

NOOOOOOOOO dangerous is a red.
This user liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46

IndigoLake
Been Liked: 1 time
Has Liked: 826 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by IndigoLake » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:32 pm

I think his reaction was more a build up of frustration of us not being given a PL pen for so long, rather than just being based on that one moment. He was finally expecting that penalty and turns around only to see the ref pointing for a Southampton FK. I'd have been incensed as well.
These 2 users liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46 tiger76

dpinsussex
Posts: 3554
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am
Been Liked: 1047 times
Has Liked: 1187 times
Location: Reading

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by dpinsussex » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:40 pm

IndigoLake wrote:I think his reaction was more a build up of frustration of us not being given a PL pen for so long, rather than just being based on that one moment. He was finally expecting that penalty and turns around only to see the ref pointing for a Southampton FK. I'd have been incensed as well.
I think we all would have been frustrated. But there is frustration and a complete over the top full on verbal assault on the match officials.
AB has a responsibility and should set an example. This behaviour will then find it's way down the pyramid to the grass roots. And we lose the so called beautiful game. If you saw your kid on the park behaving like that you would be seriously embarrassed (hopefully, and would not condone it)

How you keep calm in this circumstance is beyond me. But then I don't earn 30k a week and neither does the AR or Ref. (I am not saying they should btw - that's a different debate)
This user liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46

houseboy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
Been Liked: 2238 times
Has Liked: 1617 times
Location: Baxenden

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by houseboy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:44 pm

claretspice wrote:I bet there will be a clause in his contract about acting with professionalism and something similar, which would cover not losing control of his emotions in that situation. Same clause that would enable the club to fine him for throwing his toys out of the pram.

But anyway, I clearly rate Barnes more highly than you. I like him as a player and think he's got more ability than just being an angry man on the field. He plays on the edge, but he's got to keep himself from going over the edge. There are rugby players whose jobs involve showing a lot more aggression on the field than Barnes ever needs to show to do his job, and they don't ever confront officials like Barnes did.
Absolutely. As they say, rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen, football is a game for gentlemen played by thugs. ;)

Foulthrow
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:48 am
Been Liked: 699 times
Has Liked: 1518 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Foulthrow » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:24 pm

I'd love to see a pic of the immediate aftermath of the Barnes incident taken from the Bob Lord - I bet the JHU has more or less everyone on their feet mouthing the same words as Barnes.

Hipper
Posts: 5682
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:33 pm
Been Liked: 1175 times
Has Liked: 918 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Hipper » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:06 pm

claretspice wrote:You don't see that sort of reaction in any other sport and its rightly being clamped down on in football.
You used to see it in tennis (e.g. McEnroe) but whether it's still around I don't know.

On Industrial Language, when I learned to ref I was told you had to be aware that some people (and he wasn't looking at me I think!) use industrial language as a norm and it should therefore be acceptable. It is of course the way that it is used that counts. 'F..k off ref' after a decision may well be acceptable as it's their way of saying 'dash it all ref, I believe you are wrong old bean', as most of us will riposte.

bfccrazy
Posts: 5158
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:18 pm
Been Liked: 2103 times
Has Liked: 416 times
Location: Burnley

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by bfccrazy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:41 pm

Was the outcry from the stands linked to what a lot of us saw as a soft penalty given in favour of Man U and the offside goal ... and the Watford offside .... along with many others? Was it the culmination of so many shocking decisions against us that the frustration bubble burst.

I remember Bardsley getting kicked in the head and not even a stoppage given by the ref a few weeks ago which was worse refereeing IMO than Taylor not giving the pen at the weekend. I don’t think there would have been actual crowd trouble but it was the straw the broke the camels back after jokingly saying we’ll never get a penalty .... and it being so blatant that the injustice was not able to be let go, both for us in the stands and also for Barnes on the pitch.
These 3 users liked this post: Rick_Muller Ashingtonclaret46 dougcollins

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by claretspice » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:55 pm

Hipper wrote:You used to see it in tennis (e.g. McEnroe) but whether it's still around I don't know.

On Industrial Language, when I learned to ref I was told you had to be aware that some people (and he wasn't looking at me I think!) use industrial language as a norm and it should therefore be acceptable. It is of course the way that it is used that counts. 'F..k off ref' after a decision may well be acceptable as it's their way of saying 'dash it all ref, I believe you are wrong old bean', as most of us will riposte.
I'll be honest, I'm pretty sure McEnroe never got himself quite so close to an official with his eyes bulging like Barnes' were, but if you can find the footage I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

I'm not that concerned about the swearing per se, it's the overall reaction and the sheer level of aggression that bothers me. Rugby players have been known to swear at the ref. I'm pretty sure Jimmy Anderson has grumbled the odd expletive at the umpire after a dodgy LBW call. But there's a difference between that any the level of intimidating aggression Barnes showed - he was completely out of control. Dyche makes a big thing about the example diving sets to kids - and he might be right, but that's as bad.
This user liked this post: Hipper

Gp8419
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:17 am
Been Liked: 93 times
Has Liked: 8 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Gp8419 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:11 pm

I think fellow clarets portraying AB as the bad boy who should of been sent off is wrong tbh.In modern day life to show you care and give a bit of passion,is usually declared as ott are offensive,out of order etc... **** that it was refreshing to see a bit of passion reminded me of the better days and showed he cared! Modern day life you have to live like a robot and word watch what comes out of your mouth in fear of offending anyone pathetic! Good on ya Barnsey lad top player!

Silkyskills1
Posts: 5841
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:39 pm
Been Liked: 1678 times
Has Liked: 2513 times
Location: Rawtenstall

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Silkyskills1 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:39 pm

claretspice wrote:I'll be honest, I'm pretty sure McEnroe never got himself quite so close to an official with his eyes bulging like Barnes' were, but if you can find the footage I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

I'm not that concerned about the swearing per se, it's the overall reaction and the sheer level of aggression that bothers me. Rugby players have been known to swear at the ref. I'm pretty sure Jimmy Anderson has grumbled the odd expletive at the umpire after a dodgy LBW call. But there's a difference between that any the level of intimidating aggression Barnes showed - he was completely out of control. Dyche makes a big thing about the example diving sets to kids - and he might be right, but that's as bad.
Barnes' outburst was unacceptable but please don't make John McEnroe out to be anything other than what he was; a spoilt, arrogant, pig ignorant serial sulker. Plenty of footage of him displaying an array of those traits with cups bottles and rackets smashed when he wasn't getting his own way.

MrTopTier
Posts: 2927
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:20 am
Been Liked: 1036 times
Has Liked: 965 times
Location: The Moon, Outer Space.

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by MrTopTier » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:47 pm

To answer the original question had Barnes been sent off, the outcome of the game would likely have been different, but I don’t think there would have been any crowd trouble, more voicerfous booing perhaps.
Was his reaction over the top, certainly and no one is impressed with his behaviour towards the official. He has his team mates to thank for pulling him away.
However in context it probably was a reasonable reaction, had the ref done his job properly he could have sent Barnes off as well as sending off Slattery for a a bad tackle followed by his persistent fouling, rather than just book him for kicking the ball away.
Additionally nobody mentioned the Southampton players reaction at the end of the game, when they all surrounded the ref.
Foulthrow there is a picture on the Getty images website, which shows the reaction of the cricket field stand to the decision. Not quite the Bob Lord stand but the fat bald bloke who is always on the front row. looks like he is going to explode with fury.

IanMcL
Posts: 30123
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6340 times
Has Liked: 8651 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by IanMcL » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:04 pm

No crowd trouble. Just a quiet assassination of the ref and linos, I expect!

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:59 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:Love his passion and determination that he plays with but he needs to be more professional at times like that. Risking a red card might of cost us the game.
It's easy to say that if you're not in his shoes.
Kammy has stated a few times over the last few weeks on what a **** deal Ash gets from referees. He gets fouled constantly, and gets nothing or very little, but if he so much as looks at a defender, referees are punishing him. I'm not saying he's an angel, but he is far more sinned against than sinner. I believe opposition managers, or their lackies , are bending the refs ear before matches so that they are looking for a foul when there isn't one. It's time SD started having a word of his own.

Burnleyareback2
Posts: 2664
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:07 pm
Been Liked: 772 times
Has Liked: 1426 times
Location: Mostly Europe

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:15 pm

In fairness there has been almost 70 games without a penalty awarded.

Considering the amount of clear penalties denied and even the amount of soft ones given against us it's remarkable that nobody has lost their s*** yet.

If we were a top 4 club there would be a a video of every single one floating around, I'm even amazed nobody with time on their hands hasn't pulled one together.

If anyone can be arsed, create a thread with the full list of games I am sure you will get all the contribution you need. Perhaps we could get it released as a DVD ;)

UnderSeige
Been Liked: 1 time
Has Liked: 826 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by UnderSeige » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:49 pm

What would have happened had VAR been in operation and used to check this incident?
Barnes would unlikely have been booked for a dive or a foul.
The goalkeeper might have been sent off or at least yellow carded (debatable).
A penalty should definately have been awarded.
Barnes booked for dissent? Probably not since he would not have reacted in the way that he did. He would have just waited for the VAR result.
Wood booked for dissent? Same as Barnes.

It looks like the referee has made a decision without a clear view of what happened. The linesman completely missed the whole thing. The referee also failed to book Slattery when he committed what looked like a sliding two footed challange (at speed) on Taylor early on in the game.

whiffa
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:58 pm
Been Liked: 504 times
Has Liked: 2561 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by whiffa » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:39 pm

Good video of the incident here - still infuriates me!

https://www.facebook.com/SkySports/vide ... 263313000/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And how on Earth the commentator doesn't think that's a penalty is just ridiculous - getting beyond a joke know.
I hope the bribes that officials and pundits are getting are worth it.

2 Bee Holed
Posts: 1856
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:37 am
Been Liked: 548 times
Has Liked: 31 times
Location: South Manchester

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:25 am

I thought MOTD had shown that the Slattery challenge occurred because he slipped, foul = yes, booking = no. IMO.
So incredibly, from my vantage point in the CFS what looked like a very nasty challenge, it appears that the Ref got that right.

Now the penalty was right in front of me, I was outraged. Not because we didn't get the penalty, I wrongly assumed the keeper had got to the ball first. What incensed me was the booking for simulation. How the hell he was meant to get out of the way of the challenge and stay on his feet is beyond me.
However, I do think Barnes should have been sent off. What I am concerned about now is the referee's union watching him like a hawk next Saturday and the refs getting their revenge.

CnBtruntru
Posts: 4133
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:39 pm
Been Liked: 694 times
Has Liked: 600 times
Location: Wexford, Ireland. via Nelson.

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by CnBtruntru » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:33 am

Dunno.....

WestMidsClaret
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:55 pm
Been Liked: 534 times
Has Liked: 506 times

Re: Had Barnes been sent off.....

Post by WestMidsClaret » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:35 am

No one likes us, no one likes us..........

Post Reply