6th February 1958

[JohnMac]

It's the anniversary of that horrific crash in Munich made perhaps even more poignant given the recent tragedy in the English Channel.

There are no rivalries when disaster strikes.

[LeadBelly]

I remember that day well. I was going to the opticians for the first time after school, I was walking with my mother towards town when we met my dad coming home a bit early early (as he worked outdoors) and he told us the terrible news. Burnley was (and still is) the only club I really care about but, as OP says, it's easy to put aside allegiances when such tragedy strikes another club.
Some tales of brave survival and heroic action surrounding that crash as well.

[houseboy]

Is it me or is anyone else getting sick of this being dragged up all the time? It was a tragedy but I get sick to death of it every 5 years. Worse things have happened in the world and continue to happen. I bet most United fans can't even remember it, I know I don't as I was 4 and it didn't even come up on my radar at the time.

Sorry but it's about time this was laid to rest. There were 7 players plus 14 others who died which is awful but compare that to these that are given nowhere near the same publicity every 5 years:
Bradford fire: 56 dead.
Ibrox disaster: 66 dead.
Burnden park: 33 dead.
Torino FC: lost 18 players in an air crash.
Even the Hillsborough disaster, possibly the worst of all, doesn't get dragged up so often and the main reason it gets mentioned is because of criminal behaviour that is on-going.
Simply put, if it wasn't United you'd hardly hear a thing.
It was sad and terrible at the time but let's just stop banging on about it now.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Great point, how dare a club and its fans mark a tragedy in its history while sparing a thought for those who died.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Is it me

I think it is, yes

[houseboy]

Great point, how dare a club and its fans mark a tragedy in its history while sparing a thought for those who died.

Great piece of attempted sarcasm there bud. It misses the point. If they want to that is fine but it's all over the bloody news every five years and there are more important things to talk about for the general masses. Some things become part of folklore in a way and this is one of them. Listen, tragedies occur all the time and in the overall scheme of things the death of 7 footballers 60 years ago is not now that important. There are many worse things that go on in the world that don't even get a mention for various reasons.

Don't worry bud, it is okay for people to say they just don't care any more and to stop pretending to be all upset about something that is not that major any more.

I'm just not that sentimental about these things. Life is life and death is part of that. People die, you grieve, then you move on, you have to. When I die I want my family to grieve then carry on with their lives and move on to be happy. I don't want a shrine or people getting depressed on the anniversary of my death.

And you need to brush up on the sarcasm skills mate, it wasn't very original.

[claretonthecoast1882]

There is only 1 person blubbering on seemingly upset about something. Surely you should be aiming your tears at the news people mentioning it rather than the club who I don't imagine are bothered wether it is on the news or not.

Nobody is pretending to be upset about anything (well apart from you) just most mature people are capable of thinking if a club and its fans want to mark its own tragedy they are well within their rights to do so. Have they asked you do to anything today in respect ?

Still you keep moaning about something you don't care about, good use of time while you are alive.

[houseboy]

I think it is, yes

Do I take it then that you think I am the only one who thinks this? Or am I the only one who dare say it?

[ŽižkovClaret]

Do I take it then that you think I am the only one who thinks this? Or am I the only one who dare say it?

I just think its a funny thing to get bothered about tbh

[houseboy]

There is only 1 person blubbering on seemingly upset about something. Surely you should be aiming your tears at the news people mentioning it rather than the club who I don't imagine are bothered wether it is on the news or not.

Nobody is pretending to be upset about anything (well apart from you) just most mature people are capable of thinking if a club and its fans want to mark its own tragedy they are well within their rights to do so. Have they asked you do to anything today in respect ?

Still you keep moaning about something you don't care about, good use of time while you are alive.

So nothing new to add then? My criticism WAS aimed at the media actually, for what it's worth (and people bringing it up on here with some kind of false empathy).

60 years ago today a plane crashed and 21 people lost there lives. It's sad.

In the intervening decades countless tens of thousands of people have died in tragedies, not just air crashes, will they be granted the same respect and remembrance? I think not.

[NottsClaret]

I don't want a shrine or people getting depressed on the anniversary of my death.

My name is houseboy, king of kings,
Look on my posts, ye Mighty, and despair!

[Dyched]

I get where Houseboy is coming from abit.

It’s not that it’s dragged up. It’s because it’s Man Utd so it’s still made more publicly. As is Hillsborough because of Liverpool. Those clubs don’t publicly display the mourning of those tragedy's anymore than Bradford do. It’s just in the general public because of who they are.

Had those 2 indicents had happed to say Carlisle and Brentford then nobody would have heard of them. Almost certainly the Hillsborough Tradegy wouldn’t get anywhere near the publicity it has it involved a lesser club.

[Falcon]

61 years actually. We're not on a big anniversary.

[Silkyskills1]

It's a significant date in the history of an English football club. I was 6 years old two months later so don't recall the tragedy happening. And it most definitely was a tragedy. My brother went to the next game Manchester United played at Old Trafford with my auntie(less than three weeks after the accident,I believe). He was just thirteen but remembers it clearly. I do remember their FA Cup semi final that season was on TV live in a midweek afternoon and they beat Fulham 5-3 to reach the final against Bolton (the first I ever remember watching). When February 6th arrives on the calendar I have to say that my mind is transported immediately to those bleak images of a crumpled aeroplane on a snowy terrain and the stories of heroism(Harry Gregg going back to look for survivors). Each to their own but I always have and always will recall the date as one for at least a little reflection. I lived in Manchester for 7 years attending grammar school in Salford and as a consequence made many Manchester United supporting friends who I still see all these years later. I'm sure they will have given a thought to the tragic events of 61 years ago today at just after 3 pm. I know I did.
Edit: Just like to add that I don't comprehend the notion that the death of 7 footballers 60 years ago is somehow not that important.

[Sausage]

You can't remotely compare Munich with Hillsborough. One was (for want of a better phrase) an Act of God, the other was criminal negligence resulting in the manslaughter of 96 people with a subsequent cover-up that is, even to this day, breathtaking in its scope and arrogance. The latter is still in the public eye because of the huge injustice and the fact that two men are on trial, not necessarily the fact that it was a tragedy.

[houseboy]

I just think its a funny thing to get bothered about tbh

To say I'm 'bothered is a bit of an overstatement bud. I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it. It's just that I think there are more important things that should be on the news rather than the Munich disaster (which isn't even news).

[houseboy]

My name is houseboy, king of kings,
Look on my posts, ye Mighty, and despair!

And death will come on swift wings oh ye of little faith.

[houseboy]

61 years actually. We're not on a big anniversary.

Actually that's right, even less reason to bring it up.

[houseboy]

It's a significant date in the history of an English football club. I was 6 years old two months later so don't recall the tragedy happening. And it most definitely was a tragedy. My brother went to the next game Manchester United played at Old Trafford with my auntie(less than three weeks after the accident,I believe). He was just thirteen but remembers it clearly. I do remember their FA Cup semi final that season was on TV live in a midweek afternoon and they beat Fulham 5-3 to reach the final against Bolton (the first I ever remember watching). When February 6th arrives on the calendar I have to say that my mind is transported immediately to those bleak images of a crumpled aeroplane on a snowy terrain and the stories of heroism(Harry Gregg going back to look for survivors). Each to their own but I always have and always will recall the date as one for at least a little reflection. I lived in Manchester for 7 years attending grammar school in Salford and as a consequence made many Manchester United supporting friends who I still see all these years later. I'm sure they will have given a thought to the tragic events of 61 years ago today at just after 3 pm. I know I did.
Edit: Just like to add that I don't comprehend the notion that the death of 7 footballers 60 years ago is somehow not that important.

I think in a rounabout way you have proved my point (without meaning to belittle what you say). When the anniversary comes around you reflect a little and remember and that is fine, but do you do the same for the Bradford anniversary, or Ibrox, or Burnden Park or any number of tragedies like Lockerbie or Dunblane, all of which were actually far, far worse. We could spend all our time in remembrance if we did these things, which is why we have to let go.

[houseboy]

You can't remotely compare Munich with Hillsborough. One was (for want of a better phrase) an Act of God, the other was criminal negligence resulting in the manslaughter of 96 people with a subsequent cover-up that is, even to this day, breathtaking in its scope and arrogance. The latter is still in the public eye because of the huge injustice and the fact that two men are on trial, not necessarily the fact that it was a tragedy.

Precisely what I said but the comparison is because of the relative loss of life. As a disaster Munich was actually quite small and there have been many far worse that are long forgotten.

[conyoviejo]

Leeds and Liverpool fans seem to remember it everytime they play Utd..

[andyh]

Precisely what I said but the comparison is because of the relative loss of life. As a disaster Munich was actually quite small and there have been many far worse that are long forgotten.

Rightly or wrongly the fame of those who died plays a part. If it had been fans not players it would be a much smaller thing. Just look at the recent accident. Prem league player involved makes it front page news for a few days. Sadly if the passenger had not been a celeb then it soon drops out of the headlines.

[Silkyskills1]

I think in a rounabout way you have proved my point (without meaning to belittle what you say). When the anniversary comes around you reflect a little and remember and that is fine, but do you do the same for the Bradford anniversary, or Ibrox, or Burnden Park or any number of tragedies like Lockerbie or Dunblane, all of which were actually far, far worse. We could spend all our time in remembrance if we did these things, which is why we have to let go.

I think when we are talking about tragedies of the magnitude mentioned above it is impossible/disrespectful to categorise them. All affected so many people and of course continue to do so. I've just read the book of the Bradford fire by a survivor who lost his dad, granddad, uncle and brother on that fateful day and I have to say it is one of the most harrowing stories I think I've ever read. Both inspirational and darkly depressing it really does highlight the repercussions of disasters that shouldn't befall any of us. Chilling stuff.

[claretblue]

I think when we are talking about tragedies of the magnitude mentioned above it is impossible/disrespectful to categorise them. All affected so many people and of course continue to do so. I've just read the book of the Bradford fire by a survivor who lost his dad, granddad, uncle and brother on that fateful day and I have to say it is one of the most harrowing stories I think I've ever read. Both inspirational and darkly depressing it really does highlight the repercussions of disasters that shouldn't befall any of us. Chilling stuff.

which book was that Silky?

[Silkyskills1]

which book was that Silky?

56 The Story of the Bradford Fire by Martin Fletcher.
He was just 12 or so when it happened but through sheer good luck( I can't think of any other way to describe it) he escaped and survived. His four relatives with him that day didn't. Gabby Logan, whose dad was manager that day, was sat close by him along with her sister. Commentator, Don Goodman's 18 year old girlfriend at the time also sadly lost her life too. Goodman,I think, was substitute for Bradford.As I said, a truly harrowing, informative and inspirational piece of work. Must have been tough researching it.

[Tricky Trevor]

56 The Story of the Bradford Fire by Martin Fletcher.
He was just 12 or so when it happened but through sheer good luck( I can't think of any other way to describe it) he escaped and survived. His four relatives with him that day didn't. Gabby Logan, whose dad was manager that day, was sat close by him along with her sister. Commentator, Don Goodman's 18 year old girlfriend at the time also sadly lost her life too. Goodman,I think, was substitute for Bradford.As I said, a truly harrowing, informative and inspirational piece of work. Must have been tough researching it.

Gabby Logan has done an excellent show on BT about the Bradford fire, that crops up quite regularly.

It was, undoubtedly IMO, the quality of the players and the decimation of that team that led to this becoming an annual review. It doesn’t impinge on my life at all so let them mourn.

[bfcmik]

https://vimeo.com/254322775?fbclid=IwAR ... 9WSeZ_tHr0

Burnley v Man Utd, including the 'Busby Babes' just 10 months earlier. Colour footage by Sam Hanna

[houseboy]

Rightly or wrongly the fame of those who died plays a part. If it had been fans not players it would be a much smaller thing. Just look at the recent accident. Prem league player involved makes it front page news for a few days. Sadly if the passenger had not been a celeb then it soon drops out of the headlines.

Sadly that is true. How many people know the name of the pilot? The reason I remember it is because his surname is relevant to me through marriage. All lives are equal but unfortunately the obsession with 'celebrity' means ordinary people are forgotten.

All I have been getting at in this thread is that it doesn't matter who anyone is or what they do they are no more important than someones mum or dad or brother or friend and putting people on proverbial pedestals when you don't even know them just seems all very pointless. Death is the ultimate in equality.

[houseboy]

I think when we are talking about tragedies of the magnitude mentioned above it is impossible/disrespectful to categorise them. All affected so many people and of course continue to do so. I've just read the book of the Bradford fire by a survivor who lost his dad, granddad, uncle and brother on that fateful day and I have to say it is one of the most harrowing stories I think I've ever read. Both inspirational and darkly depressing it really does highlight the repercussions of disasters that shouldn't befall any of us. Chilling stuff.

That must have been a hard book to read, but as you say these can be inspirational if taken in the right light (whatever that is).

I have to say that the posts I have put on here have been done to try to highlight how we put people on pedestals because they are famous or talented but really we are all equal in the end. Unfortunately the man who wrote the Bradford book knows that more than most people.

Nothing I ever say is intended to offend and if anyone has taken things that way I apologise, sometimes I can be a little 'caustic' and it comes across as uncaring but that is never my intention because I do care about things, perhaps a little too much.

[Sausage]

56 The Story of the Bradford Fire by Martin Fletcher.
He was just 12 or so when it happened but through sheer good luck( I can't think of any other way to describe it) he escaped and survived. His four relatives with him that day didn't. Gabby Logan, whose dad was manager that day, was sat close by him along with her sister. Commentator, Don Goodman's 18 year old girlfriend at the time also sadly lost her life too. Goodman,I think, was substitute for Bradford.As I said, a truly harrowing, informative and inspirational piece of work. Must have been tough researching it.

I, too, have read the Martin Fletcher book about the Bradford Fire and it is incredibly moving. So much so that there were times I was in tears thinking about how this might have touched the lives of Burnley fans if the fire had occurred just 22 days earlier when we played at Valley Parade. The incredible thing about Martin Fletcher, though, is that he survived the Bradford fire and then four years later was at Hillsborough on that ill-fated day.

[Silkyskills1]

I, too, have read the Martin Fletcher book about the Bradford Fire and it is incredibly moving. So much so that there were times I was in tears thinking about how this might have touched the lives of Burnley fans if the fire had occurred just 22 days earlier when we played at Valley Parade. The incredible thing about Martin Fletcher, though, is that he survived the Bradford fire and then four years later was at Hillsborough on that ill-fated day.

He is a survivor but the fire and then Hillsboro four years later have taken their toll. I have to admit finding myself going through footage of the fire and the now disturbing commentary from John Helm. I don't know why really because I've seen it numerous times but combined with reading a first hand experience of the fire it served to reinforce the sheer desperation and panic of a cross-section of people who had just gone out for the afternoon to watch a football match. Certainly not a book I found able to read quickly.