O/T I want to come home

[DustyBawls]

Let me know when you've finished crying.

[BurningBeard]

Let me know when you've finished crying.

OK, my tears of laughter have stopped now FF. Tell me, has your bottom lip stopped quivering?

[FactualFrank]

OK, my tears have stopped now FF.

Nice to hear.

[Pimlico_Claret]

Anyone else wish I. T would F. O to Syria? Just asking, don't judge me on it.

[bob-the-scutter]

You've replied twice now and failed to answer my very simple question.

What do you think is wrong with the sentence?

Would anyone out there like to explain to this fu@kwit why serving 2 years of a 6 year sentence for terrorism is abhorrent?

[pushpinpussy]

Of the 18,814 deaths caused by terrorists around the world last year, well over half were due to the actions of just four groups: Islamic State, the Taliban, Al-Shabaab and Boko Haram. Btw, i, after reading this thread believe this turtle geezer must be part of one of these groups. just to support this outrage as much as he does beggars belief

[Imploding Turtle]

Would anyone out there like to explain to this fu@kwit why serving 2 years of a 6 year sentence for terrorism is abhorrent?

I wasn't aware she committed terrorism. I thought all she'd done was become a member of a banned terrorist organisation.
What acts of terror did she commit? Did she kill anyone? Did she harm anyone?

This is why i asked you my original question, because you clearly had strong feelings about her sentence so i, perhaps mistakenly, assumed that you had a clue about what it was you were so angry about.

[Imploding Turtle]

Of the 18,814 deaths caused by terrorists around the world last year, well over half were due to the actions of just four groups: Islamic State, the Taliban, Al-Shabaab and Boko Haram. Btw, i, after reading this thread believe this turtle geezer must be part of one of these groups. just to support this outrage as much as he does beggars belief

Look guys. I'm a member of a terrorist organisation because i support us obeying our own laws. Because that makes sense, right?
Maybe i should be sentenced to 6 years in prison like that woman was for the same crime of being a member of a terrorist organisation.

[Erasmus]

I do wish Imploding Turtle would present his points in a less combative and aggressive manner as his approach tends to obscure the fact that many of his ideas get right to the point.

In this case, there is no disagreement over what we think about ISIS and its adherents and supporters. They represent an utterly vile ideology that contravenes all the ideals of decency and morality. And there is nothing but absolute condemnation for this young woman who is so blinded by vanity, stupidity and wickedness that she is absolutely unable to distinguish right from wrong. I haven't seen anything on the thread from anyone that gives one word of support to terrorism.

The issue that is being debated is how we should think and act in the face of this abominable ideology and its supporters. To my mind, the most important thing is that we maintain an absolute distinction between us and them in terms of ideology and conduct. They are petty-minded religious bigots who express that bigotry through grotesque acts of violence. We base our conduct on the ideology of the enlightenment and that is why we are different to them and so much better than them. So we should never sink to their type of lynch-mob, vigilante type of mentality. We are civilised they are barbarians and however angry we may be we cannot deviate from the values of our civilisation. If we do that they will have succeeded because they are making us like them.

So we don't summarily execute people and we adhere to the rule of law. If that means we have to take her back then so be it. And if the values of our civilisation demand that we put her on trial and prosecute her as well, then that is what we have to do in order to maintain the clear distinction between us and them. Otherwise they have not been defeated. If our anger moves us to deviate from our values and culture then they are getting exactly what they are seeking and that cannot be allowed to happen.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Of the 18,814 deaths caused by terrorists around the world last year, well over half were due to the actions of just four groups: Islamic State, the Taliban, Al-Shabaab and Boko Haram. Btw, i, after reading this thread believe this turtle geezer must be part of one of these groups. just to support this outrage as much as he does beggars belief

He isn't supporting the outrage, read his posts and try again.

His whole point on this thread is about supporting our justice system etc.
It's pretty obvious, because he's going about it in his usual pleasant way

[Imploding Turtle]

I do wish Imploding Turtle would present his points in a less combative and aggressive manner as his approach tends to obscure the fact that many of his ideas get right to the point.

In this case, there is no disagreement over what we think about ISIS and its adherents and supporters. They represent an utterly vile ideology that contravenes all the ideals of decency and morality. And there is nothing but absolute condemnation for this young woman who is so blinded by vanity, stupidity and wickedness that she is absolutely unable to distinguish right from wrong. I haven't seen anything on the thread from anyone that gives one word of support to terrorism.

The issue that is being debated is how we should think and act in the face of this abominable ideology and its supporters. To my mind, the most important thing is that we maintain an absolute distinction between us and them in terms of ideology and conduct. They are petty-minded religious bigots who express that bigotry through grotesque acts of violence. We base our conduct on the ideology of the enlightenment and that is why we are different to them and so much better than them. So we should never sink to their type of lynch-mob, vigilante type of mentality. We are civilised they are barbarians and however angry we may be we cannot deviate from the values of our civilisation. If we do that they will have succeeded because they are making us like them.

So we don't summarily execute people and we adhere to the rule of law. If that means we have to take her back then so be it. And if the values of our civilisation demand that we put her on trial and prosecute her as well, then that is what we have to do in order to maintain the clear distinction between us and them. Otherwise they have not been defeated. If our anger moves us to deviate from our values and culture then they are getting exactly what they are seeking and that cannot be allowed to happen.

Sometimes I choose not to go out of my way to make sure that even stupid people can't possibly interpret my posts the most stupid of ways.

I could have started every post in this thread with "I don't support Begum, or terrorism" but i chose not to because I enjoy it when stupid people take my perfectly reasonable and uncontroversial points of view and got crazy with them by interpreting them so stupidly as to accuse me of, for example, supporting terrorists, of supporting terrorism and of being a member of an international terrorist organisation.

[pushpinpussy]

You do realise being called stupid by an idiot who's always wrong is actually a compliment.

[FactualFrank]

You do realise being called stupid by an idiot who's always wrong is actually a compliment.

*complement

[Lancasterclaret]

He's not wrong though is he?

And being called wrong by someone who hates people based on their religion or the colour of their skin is a badge he'll wear quite proudly I suspect.

I know I would.

[Imploding Turtle]

You do realise being called stupid by an idiot who's always wrong is actually a compliment.

Hey. Remember when you said you thought i'm a member of an international terrorist organisation? Eh? Do you remember that 200 IQ post?

[Guich]

Hey. Remember when you said you thought i'm a member of an international terrorist organisation? Eh? Do you remember that 200 IQ post?

No-one likes you
No-one likes you
No-one likes you
You don't care
You are Turtle
Super Turtle
You are Turtle,,,from the North!

[bfccrazy]

It’s definitely a grim sign when even ISIS have a better international scouting network than we do ......

DYCHE OUT!

[TheFamilyCat]

Sky news interview ---

No regret. No remorse. No apology.

"Did you know about what islamic state were doing, executions, the be headings when you set out for Syria?"

"Yes but I believe that Islamically, it's all allowed. So I'm OK with that"

"You didn't question it?"

"No"

"Do you have any regrets about what you've been through?"

"It's changed me as a person. Its's made me stronger, tougher"

"There's a struggle going on in the UK about whether you should be allowed to come back home. What are your feelings about that.?"

"I think a lot of people should have sympathy towards me I didn't know what I was getting into (despite admitting she was fully aware about the executions and beheadings, which are acceptable "islamically" and I was "ok" with that) i was hoping that for the sake of me and my child theyd let me come back. I cant live here forever."

Unbelievable!!!

This is a woman that joined a terrorist organisation. A blood thirty islamic death cult. An organisation that literally ripped out the , still bleading, hearts of its enemys. It's raped , it's thrown people off buildings and carried out appalling atrocities .

Yet she remains unrepentant about joining it. She is shameless about being part of it. She admits that only now that the caliphate has fallen does she want to return. Had it been on the front foot she'd be happy to be continuing to aid and abett her blood thirsty islamic terrorist monsters.

But no. She wants to avail herself of the services and privileges available to her , from the very same society that her and her islamic state cohorts avowed to over throw using any means necessary.

The next news item was about a little lad in this country, 4 years old I think. He has cystic fibrosis. His desperate mum had got together with other parents to try and persuade the government to pay for expensive drugs that could help to extend his life beyond the expected 30 years.

There is not an unlimited amount of public money. What will the total and ongoing cost be of allowing the ISIS member and her child back into this country?

I want my taxes to spent on helping children, who through no fault of their own , have debilitating illnesses. Rather than on "rehabilitatiing" terrorists, who, were their utopian islamic state to materialise. Would be "OK" , as it's "islamically acceptable" to be slaughtering them if they refused to confirm to their ideology.

I’m beginning to warm to her. Best WUM I’ve heard of for a while.

No, I don’t think she should be allowed back in the country but I hope she gives a few more of these interviews before the decision is made. The Ringos of this world getting so frothed up is great entertainment.

[Lancasterclaret]

Worth reiterating here

No one wants this piece of **** back in the UK but you can't just overturn the rule of law.

For it to be a 9 pager, with most of the comments saying we should do exactly that (and not just from the usual suspects) is bloody worrying.

Just what sort of country are we turning into here?

[TheFamilyCat]

Just what sort of country are we turning into here?

One that essentially voted for Nigel Farage. After that I don’t think anything should surprise you.

[mdd2]

Think you are sympathetic IT, I hope not empathetic in it’s true meaning

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

Worth reiterating here

No one wants this piece of **** back in the UK but you can't just overturn the rule of law.

For it to be a 9 pager, with most of the comments saying we should do exactly that (and not just from the usual suspects) is bloody worrying.

Just what sort of country are we turning into here?

Exactly this!

[Dazzler]

No one wants this piece of **** back in the UK but you can't just overturn the rule of law.

A national referendum might...

[Rileybobs]

Worth reiterating here

No one wants this piece of **** back in the UK but you can't just overturn the rule of law.

For it to be a 9 pager, with most of the comments saying we should do exactly that (and not just from the usual suspects) is bloody worrying.

Just what sort of country are we turning into here?

It’s pretty astonishing, even for this messageboard’s standards.

There isn’t really a debate to be had here. Does anyone on this thread want her to come back to this country? I expect the answer would be not a single person. Do the laws of the land dictate that she should be brought back and tried over here? I believe so, so that’s exactly what must happen. I don’t understand why it’s even debatable.

And calling out IT for sympathising with terrorists or even more laughably being part of a terrorist organisation is utterly moronic. Can you honestly read your post back and still take yourself seriously?

[tiger76]

It’s definitely a grim sign when even ISIS have a better international scouting network than we do ......

DYCHE OUT!

Macabre humour mocking ISIS and the club in the same sentence,i like it.

[ClaretAndJew]

It just goes to show that people just read the username and not the post.

[bobinho]

*complement

In the context he used it, compliment is correct.

[bfccrazy]

Macabre humour mocking ISIS and the club in the same sentence,i like it.

Got to have a laugh mate

[Lowbankclaret]

I'm yet to read anything she's done that would justify overthrowing our system of justice just to keep her from coming home.

Do you people even understand what would happen in this country if we did throw away out justice system in favour of one where only some people have the right to a trial? I'd like an answer.

You my friend will not understand till your dragged out of your house to be beheaded. At that moment you might think , I should have got this earlier.

[Lowbankclaret]

This Muslim girl has got loads of pages of press in the mainstream media.
The white girls were abandoned in Bradford and elsewhere.

Everything that’s wrong with the UK

[ClaretMoffitt]

This Muslim girl has got loads of pages of press in the mainstream media.
The white girls were abandoned in Bradford and elsewhere.

Everything that’s wrong with the UK

This.


And that's exactly the way many on here in this thread want it, make no mistake on that.

These weasel words about being "all about the letter of the law" are just that, weasel words, its a shield to hide behind. These same people are happy for democratic votes to be ignored but claim to be advocates of the rule of law and democracy. Their morals only extend as far as their motivations allow.

The same people on twitter right now saying she was a child at 15 and didn't know any better therefore should be allowed to come back are EXACTLY the same people who are trying to bring the voting age down to 16 in hopes of winning a second brexit referendum. Their words mean absolutely nothing.

[Imploding Turtle]

You my friend will not understand till your dragged out of your house to be beheaded. At that moment you might think , I should have got this earlier.

I understand perfectly well the importance of our laws. Maybe you will understand why fair trials are important when you're wrongly accused of a crime.

Until then I've no doubt you'll continue you be a gullible fool willing to do the bidding of those who would behead me.

[Imploding Turtle]

This.


And that's exactly the way many on here in this thread want it, make no mistake on that.

These weasel words about being "all about the letter of the law" are just that, weasel words, its a shield to hide behind. These same people are happy for democratic votes to be ignored but claim to be advocates of the rule of law and democracy. Their morals only extend as far as their motivations allow.

The same people on twitter right now saying she was a child at 15 and didn't know any better therefore should be allowed to come back are EXACTLY the same people who are trying to bring the voting age down to 16 in hopes of winning a second brexit referendum. Their words mean absolutely nothing.

They're not weasel words, and it's not about the "letter" of the law. It's about the principle of the law, and if you had any principles then maybe you'd understand why they're important.

Here, i'll explain for you.

Imagine we threw away our laws to stop this girl coming home. We'd be punishing her without a trial. What's to stop the government from doing that to just anyone? You're an extremist, what's to stop the government deciding not to let you back into the country for any reason it likes?

But even worse than that example, what if the government decides "well, we don't need a trial" when you get accused of other crimes? Rape? Murder? Child molestation? If you were falsely accused of any of these you'd want a fair trial, right? Well, tough **** rapist/murderer/kiddie fiddler because you don't have the right to a fair trial any more.

Is that what you want to become possible in this country? (i want an answer)

[TheFamilyCat]

They're not weasel words, and it's not about the "letter" of the law. It's about the principle of the law, and if you had any principles then maybe you'd understand why they're important.

Here, i'll explain for you.

Imagine we threw away our laws to stop this girl coming home. We'd be punishing her without a trial. What's to stop the government from doing that to just anyone? You're an extremist, what's to stop the government deciding not to let you back into the country for any reason it likes?

But even worse than that example, what if the government decides "well, we don't need a trial" when you get accused of other crimes? Rape? Murder? Child molestation? If you were falsely accused of any of these you'd want a fair trial, right? Well, tough **** rapist/murderer/kiddie fiddler because you don't have the right to a fair trial any more.

Is that what you want to become possible in this country? (i want an answer)

Or imagine if Tommy Robinson wasn’t allowed back in the country....

[mdd2]

We are now in an era as far as I can see where terrorism has gone beyond the "norm"
The IRA is/was perhaps the worst we have had in the UK and "civilian" casualties were collateral damage on the mainland as the IRA targeted other terrorist groups the armed forces, police and politicians (mainly Tories).
IS and Al-Quaeda and other mainly "muslim" groups target anyone irrespective of religion etc and so the question has to be asked as to whether we have "war footing' rules and regulations or carry on with our present system. Even in NI we had or chose to abolish trial by jury because of the threats posed by the IRA, is it better that an innocent man is denied their freedom or a terrorist is free to roam the streets of the UK to kill again.
I believe we have people under surveillance because we cannot prosecute due to the source of our evidence being either inadmissable in Court or would expose our sources or methods of information gathering to those wishing us harm.
Difficult questions in difficult times.
Pretty sure most of Manchester would have been happy excluding Salman Abedi given what later happened.
But we do know how internment without trial helped the IRA in NI

[Imploding Turtle]

We are now in an era as far as I can see where terrorism has gone beyond the "norm"
The IRA is/was perhaps the worst we have had in the UK and "civilian" casualties were collateral damage on the mainland as the IRA targeted other terrorist groups the armed forces, police and politicians (mainly Tories).
IS and Al-Quaeda and other mainly "muslim" groups target anyone irrespective of religion etc and so the question has to be asked as to whether we have "war footing' rules and regulations or carry on with our present system. Even in NI we had or chose to abolish trial by jury because of the threats posed by the IRA, is it better that an innocent man is denied their freedom or a terrorist is free to roam the streets of the UK to kill again.
I believe we have people under surveillance because we cannot prosecute due to the source of our evidence being either inadmissable in Court or would expose our sources or methods of information gathering to those wishing us harm.
Difficult questions in difficult times.
Pretty sure most of Manchester would have been happy excluding Salman Abedi given what later happened.
But we do know how internment without trial helped the IRA in NI

For centuries we tried having a justice system that accepted innocent people being denied their freedom in order to imprison guilty people. We decided that was really stupid. The 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights even protects the principle because, and i don't know if you know this, but a little bit before that 1948 declaration there was a period of, erm, well, it was pretty bad for a certain type of person who didn't have the protection of human rights, particularly the legal maxim of innocent until proven guilty.

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." - William Blackstone, over two-hundred ******* years ago.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not a shock that explaining the value of law to people who can't see past skin colour and religion is a complete waste of time is it?

[Stayingup]

A conflict between a moral issue and a pratical one.
However, no question about it she will come back here like it or not, on State benefits and with a home.

[Lancasterclaret]

Well up to a point.

I don't want to be in a situation where laws can be ignored because a majority of people want them to be.

Thats a dangerous precedent to set.

[Imploding Turtle]

Not a shock that explaining the value of law to people who can't see past skin colour and religion is a complete waste of time is it?

It's because freedom is in descent in this country. We've forgotten how important it is for all of us to be free and that being treated equally under the law is a vital element of freedom. Instead some people want our government to treat some people differently because, well, we just don't like THOSE people.

It probably started long before this but it became much more noticeable when for some reason we started treating "terrorism" as something more than just a crime. Shop lifting is a crime. Murder's a crime. Serial-murder is a crime. Even far-right terrorism is a crime that our justice system can handle. But Islamic terrorism? For some reason that's worse than a crime. For some reason, when it comes to Islamic terrorism, some people think we should bypass our justice system in favour of mob justice. Why is that? What is so different about Islamic terrorism that makes us no longer value our own freedom?

It's baffling. Especially when I know that the next time the Express runs a front page about how the government says fried bacon increases the risk of ingrowing toenails the same people will be screaming at the government STOP TELLING ME WHAT I CAN'T EAT!

[Stayingup]

Yes moral issue v Practical onetSome clowns on here the other day were comparing Trump to Hitler. Well, the organization this young woman affiliated herself with had the Hitler manual I think, only slighty more barbaric.

When she returns and has settled in her new house (hopefully at th sole expense of Turtle and Lancy) she can maybe tell the authorities where Big Daddys hiding out.

[Imploding Turtle]

See what I mean?

Yes moral issue v Practical onetSome clowns on here the other day were comparing Trump to Hitler. Well, the organization this young woman affiliated herself with had the Hitler manual I think, only slighty more barbaric.

When she returns and has settled in her new house (hopefully at th sole expense of Turtle and Lancy) she can maybe tell the authorities where Big Daddys hiding out.

[Lord Beamish]

One that essentially voted for Nigel Farage. After that I don’t think anything should surprise you.

This meme appeared unironically on a friend’s FaceBook page. They used to be a Big poster on the previous incarnation of this board but have not been so on this.
He’s not a young man, he’s a Baby Boom Child. This is the kind of mentality that has got this country into the pickle it currently stands in.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

This Muslim girl has got loads of pages of press in the mainstream media.
The white girls were abandoned in Bradford and elsewhere.

Everything that’s wrong with the UK

The young white girls in Bradford and elsewhere were victims, coerced (groomed) into those situations.

These young muslim girls who went to Syria were victims, coerced (groomed) into those situations.

The fact you fail to recognise this due to your obvious prejudice is everything that's wrong with the UK.

Plenty of people on here referring to her as a woman because she's now 19, when she was brainwashed by ISIS propaganda she wasn't, she was 15.

[KateR]

she needs to come home, she needs to be treated as a British citizen.

She needs to be punished for what she did and hopefully a severe custodial sentence but with some rationale as to what her age was when she went and yes she was definitely groomed, however the fear is she may well still believe what was indoctrinated in to her in the transition.

The only issues that worry me are, how will her child be treated and what her poor parents are going through, am sure they must be wondering what they did to deserve this.

Not everyone will be satisfied with the outcome no matter what it is.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Interesting name she's apparently chosen for her kid...

She's definitely not remorseful for where she's been and who she's been involved with.

[AndyClaret]

The young white girls in Bradford and elsewhere were victims, coerced (groomed) into those situations.

These young muslim girls who went to Syria were victims, coerced (groomed) into those situations.

The fact you fail to recognise this due to your obvious prejudice is everything that's wrong with the UK.

Plenty of people on here referring to her as a woman because she's now 19, when she was brainwashed by ISIS propaganda she wasn't, she was 15.

"Brainwashed" she's admitted that she went looking for the propaganda and doesn't regret a thing.

[bfcjg]

Her latest press release was that she just wanted to live under Sharia law. A simple solution therefore to this issue and to prove to doubters that she only wants to come back to the UK for the NHS and benefits would be to apply for Pakistani citizenship so she could live in a country were non shia Muslims are victimised if not killed gays are murdered liberals are attacked and Islamic dress compulsory. I am sure that would please her and perhaps some of the foreign aid budget could be used to facilitate this for her and others ?

[Bordeauxclaret]

She’s not helping herself with all these interviews.
As thick as they come.

Unfortunately that’s not a get out clause. She should stay where she is or be in a British prison.

[Billy Balfour]

Equating coalition airstrikes on Isis with the Manchester Arena terrorist bombing won't have won her any new friends. Like you say, Bordeaux, she's as thick as they come