Swansea in trouble: article

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summitclaret
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:53 pm

Well Spice we are not too far apart then now. A defour replacement is needed in the next window. Depending on whether brady can prove his fitness, McNeill may have mitigated the need for a new winger. We obviously need a new striker and we part of the money already now for that.

Still think we will be embarrassed if we go down when last year's profit is made public.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:03 pm

summitclaret wrote:Well Spice we are not too far apart then now. A defour replacement is needed in the next window. Depending on whether brady can prove his fitness, McNeill may have mitigated the need for a new winger. We obviously need a new striker and we part of the money already now for that.

Still think we will be embarrassed if we go down when last year's profit is made public.

Shouldn’t that be you will be embarrassed? Why speak for other people with your feelings?

I would be more embarrassed if I spent my time constantly moaning about something I had no control over season after season
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:06 pm

summitclaret wrote:Well Spice we are not too far apart then now. A defour replacement is needed in the next window. Depending on whether brady can prove his fitness, McNeill may have mitigated the need for a new winger. We obviously need a new striker and we part of the money already now for that.

Still think we will be embarrassed if we go down when last year's profit is made public.
Not sure why you'd be embarrassed if the club gets relegated and ISN'T a financial mess like most clubs are when they go down.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:16 pm

Right oh. Well last time Garlick was bragging HE made £30m. Forgot to mention that we only 2 fit central midfielders amd 3 anyway from January.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:26 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Not sure why you'd be embarrassed if the club gets relegated and ISN'T a financial mess like most clubs are when they go down.
So can I take it you would be okay if we went down with around £ 150m in the bank plus 3 years's para payments, when we could have mitigated that by investing a small part of that money?

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:31 pm

At no point has this club ever had £150m in the bank (let alone annual turnover, or even adding together the sum of all our annual profit in all our history) and to be honest I cannot foresee a time in the next couple of decades when we will.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:35 pm

summitclaret wrote:Expecting any significant contribution from defour and brady this season was extremely optimistic. Also we know jbg is injury prone. Lennon is well known for inconsistency. The magnificent contribution from McNeil is probably a surprise even to SD.

All in all not to bring in a right-footed winger and a cm in august was crazy and boy have we suffered for it. We had plenty of money to do that with no real risk to our future. We were at the top of our game having finished 7th and in the EL.
Don't agree with that at all. Both Brady & Defour were expected to be fit when we reported back for pre-season training. We couldn't in any way have expected the setbacks they've had. Lennon hadn't missed a game until his recent surgery while JBG, admittedly, does have a number of short term injuries.

As for not bringing in players last August, I think we all agree that we could have done with a couple more but there is a limit as to how many players you can have in your squad and we were right up there. In fairness, it looked well balanced but the Brady & Defour situation has hampered us.

Generally though, our transfer policy has been good, it has to have been for a club like ours to be in a third successive season in the Premier League. As for Vokes going, the simple fact is he wanted to go and it wasn't in our best interests to keep him in those circumstances. I'm not over excited about his replacement but it is only a short term replacement.

So no summit, don't agree that anything was crazy and spending money is always a real risk to the future. We have to ensure that the medium to long term future of the club is secure, that is paramount. And if we do go down, you might be embarrassed, but don't speak for me.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:46 pm

Not tried to speak for anyone else although someone else ( not you ) previously wrongly claimed I had.

The best way to secure our future would have been to do more to stay up this year than we did last august. It did not need much.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:52 pm

Also you may be rignt about defour and brady, but well before the season started both were injured again. We were rumoured to be after both a winger and a cm but failed. One apparently failed a medical late in the window, but had be known to be injured for ages. So we apparently knew what was needed but failed.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:55 pm

summitclaret wrote:Not tried to speak for anyone else although someone else ( not you ) previously wrongly claimed I had.

The best way to secure our future would have been to do more to stay up this year than we did last august. It did not need much.
Would doing more, in your words, guarantee we stay up?

A 100%, cast iron, solid guarantee...

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:55 pm

summitclaret wrote:So can I take it you would be okay if we went down with around £ 150m in the bank plus 3 years's para payments, when we could have mitigated that by investing a small part of that money?
*Looks over at the championship and league one littered with financial basket cases*

Yeah, because there's absolutely no way spending money guarantees survival, see Fulham.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:56 pm

Chester Perry wrote:At no point has this club ever had £150m in the bank (let alone annual turnover, or even adding together the sum of all our annual profit in all our history) and to be honest I cannot foresee a time in the next couple of decades when we will.
Not checked but add up what we had in the last accounts. Add the due one's profit and then add 18/19. Bet we will not be far off 150m.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:57 pm

summitclaret wrote:Not checked but add up what we had in the last accounts. Add the due one's profit and then add 18/19. Bet we will not be far off 150m.
So we don't have any outgoings anymore?

Excellent news, happy days everyone :roll:

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:59 pm

summitclaret wrote:The best way to secure our future would have been to do more to stay up this year than we did last august. It did not need much.
That might be your reasoning but it is very definitely not mine. Doing more to stay up this season would have done just that, given us a better chance of staying up. It would not have secured any future. I can't believe that you can't see anything from what has happened at the likes of Swansea, Bolton etc. what should be the best policy.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:03 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:So we don't have any outgoings anymore?

Excellent news, happy days everyone :roll:
What are you talking about? Course we do. I might be a bit ott - we will see. It will be nearer 150m than 100m and if we do go down with that when we could have invested in 2 players within our wage structure it will be ridiculous.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:05 pm

Bet you’re glad you don’t have your own business summit . You’ve really no idea what you’re talking about

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:That might be your reasoning but it is very definitely not mine. Doing more to stay up this season would have done just that, given us a better chance of staying up. It would not have secured any future. I can't believe that you can't see anything from what has happened at the likes of Swansea, Bolton etc. what should be the best policy.
Wow. You are normally very reasonable, but saying that me or anyone on here is saying we should spend like those basket cases is unbelievable. It appears that you are trying to shoot the messenger. I wanted 2 players jyst like we probably trued to get but failed.

We are a well run club ovetall and I certainlydon't want the management to change, but some things jyst don't stack up.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:11 pm

2016/17 £27m
2014/15 £35m
2009/10 £14m

all before tax so not net figures - you conveniently add unreported figures - but even they would have to exceed £60m profit to get you close to there and never mind the losses in between

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:38 pm

summitclaret wrote:but some things jyst don't stack up.
Really? Making it sound like there is something corrupt going on. Be very certain that transfer windows will only get more difficult for us as long as we remain in this league.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by thomaspaine » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:39 pm

jrgbfc wrote:We've been extremely lucky with the emergence of McNeil this season. And the people claiming getting rid of Vokes was a great move let's not judge it yet eh? If Wood or Barnes get injured at some point then it suddenly doesn't look quite so clever.
How can you describe the emergence of McNeil as extremely lucky? Surely that's why we have youth and development teams? Also if Wood or Barnes get injured then nothing changes in respect of the fact that these things can happen at any time. PS Crouch joined us if you missed it.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:44 pm

Not in anyway suggesting anything illegal. However, piling up money when a small part of it increases the odds of staying up and when we were in the EL is odd. If for example Directors were thinking of cashing in on their shares I coukd understand it a bit more.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:47 pm

summitclaret wrote:What are you talking about? Course we do. I might be a bit ott - we will see. It will be nearer 150m than 100m and if we do go down with that when we could have invested in 2 players within our wage structure it will be ridiculous.
The Sky money is paid in installments, over the course of a season.
Our wages and outgoing transfer fees are also paid out over the course of a season.

We won't have over £100 million in the bank.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:47 pm

summitclaret wrote:Wow. You are normally very reasonable, but saying that me or anyone on here is saying we should spend like those basket cases is unbelievable. It appears that you are trying to shoot the messenger. I wanted 2 players jyst like we probably trued to get but failed.

We are a well run club ovetall and I certainlydon't want the management to change, but some things jyst don't stack up.
I think it's in your head where things aren't stacking up.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:50 pm

thomaspaine wrote:How can you describe the emergence of McNeil as extremely lucky? Surely that's why we have youth and development teams? Also if Wood or Barnes get injured then nothing changes in respect of the fact that these things can happen at any time. PS Crouch joined us if you missed it.
Its great that McNeil has been developed so well and boy has he taken his chance. However, we were lucky because we literally had no one else to turn to.

What part of Crouch can't play 90 mins don't you get?

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:51 pm

Shows clear as day why we have to be extremely careful with every single penny and every single signing, despite appearing to have zillions of pounds flowing in as well as stashed in the bank. Looks like they're heading the way of Pompey, Brum, Bolton and several others by betting the ranch on staying in the PL and believing that the golden goose will always be there and will always be laying. On the back of the report about the shenanigans surrounding the Sala transfer and how much a deal like that actually costs in the end, once all the pigs with their noses in the trough have taken their slice, it makes pretty sobering reading.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:51 pm

thomaspaine wrote:How can you describe the emergence of McNeil as extremely lucky? Surely that's why we have youth and development teams? Also if Wood or Barnes get injured then nothing changes in respect of the fact that these things can happen at any time. PS Crouch joined us if you missed it.
Yeah because we've produced so many Premiership level youngsters over recent years haven't we? And yes I hadn't forgot we signed Crouch, a 38 year old who probably hasn't completed a full 90 minutes for over a year. Not exactly adequate cover is he?

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:51 pm

summitclaret wrote:Its great that McNeil has been developed so well and boy has he taken his chance. However, we were lucky because we literally had no one else to turn to.

What part of Crouch can't play 90 mins don't you get?
How do you know he can't play 90 mins?

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Bosscat » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:52 pm

Disgusting how our mercenary board suck the cash out of little Burnley FC... We should be throwing Gazillions at the team ...bugger spending money on a top class training facility and facilities for our disabled fans.... Lets go out and buy Messi and Ronaldo and pay 200k a week .... some on here talk a load of Sphericals ffs.


Jesus H Christ who do some people think we are.
I for one back Garlick and his policies regarding Burnley FC .... Sustainability. A Burnley Football club for our Grandchildren... not a distant memory.

Yes we probably could do with another creative midfielder/winger.... but Sam to Stoke with Crouch coming here a cracking bit of business.

Thats something to sort out in the close season along with replacing some etc etc etc....

Long may Mike Garlick and our board of Burnley long time supporting fans remain in place.... a few on here should take a step back and smell the coffee.

Come on you PL Clarets
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:54 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Yeah because we've produced so many Premiership level youngsters over recent years haven't we? And yes I hadn't forgot we signed Crouch, a 38 year old who probably hasn't completed a full 90 minutes for over a year. Not exactly adequate cover is he?
O'Neill looked alright when he had a chance, shame he's tailed off.

That is the whole point of the academy though and numerous people on here whinge that it isn't churning out its own "class of 92" yet despite it being only recently overhauled :roll:

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Aclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:56 pm

And losing at home to Brentford at HT in fa cup

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:20 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The Sky money is paid in installments, over the course of a season.
Our wages and outgoing transfer fees are also paid out over the course of a season.

We won't have over £100 million in the bank.
I know how accounts work thank you.

Think you are in for a big surprise when our accounts for 18/19 come out in just over a year. Howver maybe the likes of royboy could give us an estimate?
Last edited by summitclaret on Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Buxtonclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:24 pm

If Swansea are that hard up, we could do worse than making an offer for their winger, Dan James.
We've not done bad with Swansea James's in the past. :)

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:35 pm

Bosscat wrote:Disgusting how our mercenary board suck the cash out of little Burnley FC... We should be throwing Gazillions at the team ...bugger spending money on a top class training facility and facilities for our disabled fans.... Lets go out and buy Messi and Ronaldo and pay 200k a week .... some on here talk a load of Sphericals ffs.


Jesus H Christ who do some people think we are.
I for one back Garlick and his policies regarding Burnley FC .... Sustainability. A Burnley Football club for our Grandchildren... not a distant memory.

Yes we probably could do with another creative midfielder/winger.... but Sam to Stoke with Crouch coming here a cracking bit of business.

Thats something to sort out in the close season along with replacing some etc etc etc....

Long may Mike Garlick and our board of Burnley long time supporting fans remain in place.... a few on here should take a step back and smell the coffee.

Come on you PL Clarets
Where on earth do you get the impression in your first para from? If someone writes we need to spend a little bit more to increase the odds of staying up why do you interpret that as buying Messi? Guess who is really talking bollocking.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:38 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:O'Neill looked alright when he had a chance, shame he's tailed off.

That is the whole point of the academy though and numerous people on here whinge that it isn't churning out its own "class of 92" yet despite it being only recently overhauled :roll:
Name one person that has complained as per your last para. Bet you can't from recent times.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:40 pm

Like a lot of people I can get pretty frustrated with our board's policies at times, especially deep in to a transfer window when nowt's happening, but when you read stuff like that article, it does put your feet back on the floor to some extent.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:40 pm

Bosscat wrote:Disgusting how our mercenary board suck the cash out of little Burnley FC... We should be throwing Gazillions at the team ...bugger spending money on a top class training facility and facilities for our disabled fans.... Lets go out and buy Messi and Ronaldo and pay 200k a week .... some on here talk a load of Sphericals ffs.


Jesus H Christ who do some people think we are.
I for one back Garlick and his policies regarding Burnley FC .... Sustainability. A Burnley Football club for our Grandchildren... not a distant memory.

Yes we probably could do with another creative midfielder/winger.... but Sam to Stoke with Crouch coming here a cracking bit of business.

Thats something to sort out in the close season along with replacing some etc etc etc....

Long may Mike Garlick and our board of Burnley long time supporting fans remain in place.... a few on here should take a step back and smell the coffee.

Come on you PL Clarets


Has it ever occurred to you that there is a middle ground between spending nothing and blowing millions of pounds?

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:59 pm

Buxtonclaret wrote:If Swansea are that hard up, we could do worse than making an offer for their winger, Dan James.
We've not done bad with Swansea James's in the past. :)
Strange one was James. All set to sign for Leeds in January but Swansea pulled the plug at the 11th hour leaving Leeds no time to get anyone else in. I get the impression they must have got the nod from another club that they'd pay a lot more for him in the summer.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:59 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Has it ever occurred to you that there is a middle ground between spending nothing and blowing millions of pounds?
And that's exactly what we do - we don't spend nothing and we don't blow away millions of pounds. I think it has occurred to most people.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:05 pm

summitclaret wrote:I know how accounts work thank you.

Think you are in for a big surprise when our accounts for 18/19 come out in just over a year. Howver maybe the likes of royboy could give us an estimate?
Sure, I'll wait and find out from Roy.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:07 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Sure, I'll wait and find out from Roy.
Tell what you think first please.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Spijed » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:08 pm

It seems to have been completely missed by some that because of the way we operate we are still more successful than the vast majority of clubs.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by summitclaret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:14 pm

Spijed wrote:It seems to have been completely missed by some that because of the way we operate we are still more successful than the vast majority of clubs.

Can't disagree with that up to last summer. In fact it's still correct because the way we have operated since last may is why we are 3 points from relegation instead of comfortable mid table.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:14 pm

summitclaret wrote:Tell what you think first please.
Will be less than £100 million, whereas you're saying it's that or more.

I'm thinking £50-70 million.

Either way I won't be crying about it like some will on here whenever the figures are announced each year.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:19 pm

If we had signed a couple of midfielders last August, Dwight McNeill may not have had a chance to establish himself.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:23 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:If we had signed a couple of midfielders last August, Dwight McNeill may not have had a chance to establish himself.
Shush, you aren't allowed to point that out.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:32 pm

If we can bring one through the system every three to four years it will help us to establish ourselves much better than signings.When we do get relegated, not if, I want to see massive savings from our years in the premier to help us return ASAP.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:36 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Yeah because we've produced so many Premiership level youngsters over recent years haven't we? And yes I hadn't forgot we signed Crouch, a 38 year old who probably hasn't completed a full 90 minutes for over a year. Not exactly adequate cover is he?
You need to check your facts because Peter Crouch has played a full 90 minutes for Stoke this year --2019. He also played a full 90 mnutes in the PL during 2018 including the match against Burnley on 22 April amongst others.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by holdyourfire » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:46 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:If we had signed a couple of midfielders last August, Dwight McNeill may not have had a chance to establish himself.
I was just about to post that D/H you beat me to it, but you are spot on.

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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:47 pm

summitclaret wrote:In fact it's still correct because the way we have operated since last may is why we are 3 points from relegation instead of comfortable mid table.
No it's not - we could have spent £100 million last summer in transfer fees and still been 3 points from relegation. Seems you would prefer the club to spend, spend, spend, eventually go down and be in a mess where as others prefer the sensible, cautious approach to ensure the club is sustainable into the future.
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Re: Swansea in trouble: article

Post by claret59 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:03 pm

It is worth considering that there were no significant transfers among any of the Pl Clubs in the last window. (The one exception being Sala to Cardiff with very sad outcomes.) Perhaps a bit of a realisation that the clear evidence of where overspending on transfers can lead to. Also we hear a lot more of loans than we used to and even these are heavily priced among the top clubs.
There is a divide between what fans want and what those with the purse strings want. We should be very grateful that our club keeps a tight hold of finances while still spending quite big on occasions. Vydra, Wood and Gibson were in the millions.
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