Footballers with memory problems

[mdd2]

Whilst reading the article in the Sun on Nick there is an article on the England World Cup 13-the eleven that day plus Harold Shepherdson and Sir Alf.
Both Bobby Moore and Alan Ball died young, one from cancer and Ball from a heart attack. Shep died from a heart attack aged 76.Gordon Banks has died but it has not been stated why although there were reports sometime ago that his kidney cancer had returned. Cohen, Hunt and Hurst seem to be OK but the rest- Sir Alf had Alzheimers as did Ray Wilson
The Charlton brothers are said to have "memory problems" Martin Peters has Alzheimers and Nobby Stiles has dementia.
Just seems a hell of a stat that presently 6/13 have/had dementia, two left us before an age where dementia usually hits, so maybe 6/11.

[bobinho]

Those cased leather balls won’t have helped, especially wintertime when sodden.

[IanMcL]

The Charlton's are entitled to memory issues. They are about 100 years old! Sir Bobby allegedly tweets, so not that bad an issue!

[Targetman]

Gordon Banks died from cancer, that was stated from the outset.
When people get older, particularly late 70's early 80's their memories begin to give them problems, some more so than others.
It's not really a coincidence that it's happened to the world cup winning squad it's just a fact of life that these things happen as you get to the later stages of life.

[mdd2]

Gordon Banks died from cancer, that was stated from the outset.
When people get older, particularly late 70's early 80's their memories begin to give them problems, some more so than others.
It's not really a coincidence that it's happened to the world cup winning squad it's just a fact of life that these things happen as you get to the later stages of life.

There is a difference between cognitive decline and dementia from which reading the report I quoted Peters Ramsay Wilson Stiles have or had dementia and Jack C is said to have memory problems but can remember the World Cup
I think 4 from 11 before the age of 80 is a tad high even if one excludes the Charltons

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Mdd2 ---you are correct about Jack C----it is not great to see how he is these days.

[levraiclaret]

The Charlton's are entitled to memory issues. They are about 100 years old! Sir Bobby allegedly tweets, so not that bad an issue!

Harsh they are in their eighties at the most.

[bobinho]

Jack C does indeed have memory problems.....




He can’t remember what Steven Defour looks like...

[IanMcL]

Harsh they are in their eighties at the most.

It was for emphasis!

[ClaretTony]

In all fairness, Jack Charlton has had memory problems for years. When he was Ireland manager he could hardly remember any of the players names.

I don't think the numbers are particularly high to be honest. Don't know about Bobby Charlton but I wondered if he was suffering from Parkinsons given he seems to shake a bit.

[jrgbfc]

My Grandad played a lot of football when he was younger and he died from Alzheimer's last year. Didn't doctors conclude that heading the old style football's was a factor in Jeff Astle's death from dementia?

[Dark Cloud]

My mum is 85 and shakes a lot. I'm not sure if it's constantly heading leather footballs or the gin.

[South West Claret.]

In all fairness, Jack Charlton has had memory problems for years. When he was Ireland manager he could hardly remember any of the players names.

I don't think the numbers are particularly high to be honest. Don't know about Bobby Charlton but I wondered if he was suffering from Parkinsons given he seems to shake a bit.

Yes it was well known about JC not able to remember some of his players names when Ireland manager...quite a laugh at the time.

Also George Cohen had cancer not long after he stopped playing but looks like he won the battle.

[Steve1956]

My mum is 85 and shakes a lot. I'm not sure if it's constantly heading leather footballs or the gin.

It will be heading balls

[dsr]

My Grandad played a lot of football when he was younger and he died from Alzheimer's last year. Didn't doctors conclude that heading the old style football's was a factor in Jeff Astle's death from dementia?

The coroner concluded that. And who knows, he may be right. They're currently doing a statistical survey that should be very helpful - to compare the number of ex-professional footballers with dementia, with the wider male population. If it's significantly higher, then there are indications that there was a problem with old leather balls, and that there will have to be investigations with younger players who used the newer balls too.

There was an issue with American Football players and suicide, caused by mental injuries caused by head trauma during their careers. And NFL players get far more head trauma than footballers, because at least some of them make a career of putting their head down and running full pelt into someone else, also with head down, coming the other way. Even with helmets on, the internal shaking must be huge. Anyway, they found that the number of suicides among NFL ex-players was significantly lower than in other men of the same background, so the issue partially went away.

One thing that strikes me - I know of three deceased members of our Championship side of 1960 who died with dementia issues. Tommy Cummings, who headed the ball all day long; Jimmy McIlroy, not renowned as a header of the ball; Adam Blacklaw, who headed the ball not at all. What does that prove? Nothing at all. But it'll be interesting to see the survey results.

[ClaretTony]

My Grandad played a lot of football when he was younger and he died from Alzheimer's last year. Didn't doctors conclude that heading the old style football's was a factor in Jeff Astle's death from dementia?

Jeff Astle actually died from an illness caused chronic traumatic encephalopathy which is a disease brought on by repeated head injuries which can lead to dementia.

[mdd2]

Jeff Astle actually died from an illness caused chronic traumatic encephalopathy which is a disease brought on by repeated head injuries which can lead to dementia.

Agreed Tony and the true nature of the England squads memory failings may not be known as it is likely that Alzheimers will be over diagnosed as it is the commonest.
It is said 1 in 14 people over the age of 65 have some form of dementia rising to 1 in 6 over the age of 80 and that is a lot less than the figures for the 11 who played in the Final of 1966 + Sir Alf and Shep reinforcing the need to look at footballers more so those who have ever been concussed.
I thought and still think that the reported numbers in those 13 men is way above what one would expect more so since only 11 lived to an age where this nasty illness strikes.
I know CT you don't think these stats are particularly high but on this one I think you are likely to be wrong

And DSR your 3 from 11 whilst not proving anything as 4-6 from 11-13 proves little it is another stat in excess of 1 in 6 and makes the study presently underway so important.

[ClaretTony]

Agreed Tony and the true nature of the England squads memory failings may not be known as it is likely that Alzheimers will be over diagnosed as it is the commonest.
It is said 1 in 14 people over the age of 65 have some form of dementia rising to 1 in 6 over the age of 80 and that is a lot less than the figures for the 11 who played in the Final of 1966 + Sir Alf and Shep reinforcing the need to look at footballers more so those who have ever been concussed.
I thought and still think that the reported numbers in those 13 men is way above what one would expect more so since only 11 lived to an age where this nasty illness strikes.
I know CT you don't think these stats are particularly high but on this one I think you are likely to be wrong

And DSR your 3 from 11 whilst not proving anything as 4-6 from 11-13 proves little it is another stat in excess of 1 in 6 and makes the study presently underway so important.

I think we read too much into them and, sadly, every time a footballer is known to have a form of dementia it is thought that it came about by heading the ball. You will know better than I do but I'm not convinced it is any higher than people who didn't play football.

dsr's stats are a little out in any case, Ray Pointer was suffering with dementia for a good number of years before he passed away while Adam Blacklaw had motor neurone.

[Blackrod]

Dementia is more prevalent in society. A horrible disease that we have experience of in our family. I personally don’t think its more of an issue for ex footballers.

[mdd2]

Hi CT the complicating facts are that repeated brain injuries of the type said to be implicated in Jeff Astle and also in American footballers do seem to be associated with some of the changes in Alzheimers, so that it is possible that repeated head injuries- (and i think even we know what it was like heading those old ball especially when you didn't connect properly and going a bit dizzy momentarily)- act to bring forward the symptoms seen in Alzheimers. Certainly those with traumatic brain injuries are more likely to develop dementia than those without those injuries.
Like most organs, the more insults you throw at them the more likely they are to complain

[mdd2]

On the subject of MND some of those sufferers also dement so I don't know whether poor Adam had cognitive problems to add to his suffering-clearly a man like Stephen hawking didn't suffer any loss of his reasoning- but that was an odd case.

[JohnMac]

Yes it was well known about JC not able to remember some of his players names when Ireland manager

To be fair to Jack, he couldn't even remember they were supposed to be from Ireland