Labour MPs To Split From Party?

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:06 am

BBC....press conference about to start where at least four MPs are expected to announce
their departure from the party, citing the handling of the Brexit issue and the anti-Semitism row.

Edit..Confirmed that four MPs are to depart.
Live on BBC 2 now.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:19 am

I wonder if any of the will have the cojones to insist on a By-Election?

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:19 am

Lord Beamish wrote:I wonder if any of the will have the cojones to insist on a By-Election?

My thoughts exactly. No doubt a reporter will ask.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:23 am

Good riddance.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:23 am

Now at 7. Chuka Umunna being the most notable.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:25 am

There was always going to be an exodus of the left over Tories from the Blair /Brown era.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:32 am

MP’s should NOT be allowed to resign, or leave the party they are a member of, until the end of their term.

They asked for our votes, they got them, now get on with it until the next GE.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:32 am

Not much mention of brexit as the reason for leaving tge whip really. However Chucka on next.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:37 am

He is inviting others to join them. No mention of bexit.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:39 am

TM will be blowing the Downing Street cat right now.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:43 am

They can't mention Brexit. Who does that appeal to?
Fans of the current Labour leader? No point. They'll never forgive this betrayal.
'Traditional Labour voters'. No.
Lib Dems. Yes - but they already have a party of the same size and why would they try SDP take 2?
Centrist Tory voters. Possibly. So if they get some support there, that'll just reinforce the views of the three groups above.

Brexit isn't a winner for this group.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:46 am

Brexit just mentioned by Chris Leslie. Mentioned by one of em before, too.

CL won't be fighting a by election.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:49 am

But most of them if not all have been banging on for ages about a second ref. Chuka still thinks the latter should be a straight choice between May's 230 defeat deal and remain. How can anyone take him seriously when he supports such an undemocratic choice.

I don't have a massive problem with his centre ground politics on general, but not feeling able mention the big issue of our time when we know what he thinks is hardly a recipe for success.

Very encouraging fir those that want to leave with a deal as per malthouse.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:50 am

Oh FFS the first two threads I look at on here are bloody Brexit threads - with no mention of it in the heading. If you are going to create this never ending list of Brexit threads please mark it clearly 'Brexit' then those who are bored to death with them can avoid.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:14 am

I don't know how internal politics works, but if they've resigned as Labour MPs but remain as an Independent MP, shouldn't there be a by-election in their constituencies?

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:18 am

Murger wrote:I don't know how internal politics works, but if they've resigned as Labour MPs but remain as an Independent MP, shouldn't there be a by-election in their constituencies?

I don’t know if it’s a Parliamentary Requirement, but it would only be fair on their Constituents.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:23 am

It is not a requirement to hold a by-election, MPs are voted in on a personal capacity by their constituents and it is unlikely that the magnificent 7 will expose themselves to a vote anytime soon.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:25 am

Chris Leslie, when asked about a by election, mumbled something about voters electing Individuals, not parties.

So it doesn't look like he'll be fighting one any time soon.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:25 am

houseboy wrote:Oh FFS the first two threads I look at on here are bloody Brexit threads - with no mention of it in the heading. If you are going to create this never ending list of Brexit threads please mark it clearly 'Brexit' then those who are bored to death with them can avoid.

Hi houseboy, would a "may contain brexit" warning work?

I feel the same when I go into a restaurant and carefully select a dish where the ingredients don't contain gluten - only to be told that "but, there's wheat/gluten in the sauce."

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:29 am

bobinho wrote:MP’s should NOT be allowed to resign, or leave the party they are a member of, until the end of their term.

They asked for our votes, they got them, now get on with it until the next GE.

Many of the Labour MPs were elected, in spite of the leadership, by strong local support, which assumed Corbyn would get nowhere near Downing Street. So a bi-election would split the Labour vote and the incumbents would likely win the seat, but with a real risk of some Tories sneaking in.

Mind you, at least my son's art teacher might stop using the lessons to continually explain why the Labour leadership isn't anti-Semitic, and it's all made up by people who just don't like cuddly, harmless, well meaning old Jez

Probably not though

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:34 am

Guich wrote:Many of the Labour MPs were elected, in spite of the leadership, by strong local support, which assumed Corbyn would get nowhere near Downing Street. So a bi-election would split the Labour vote and the incumbents would likely win the seat, but with a real risk of some Tories sneaking in.

Mind you, at least my son's art teacher might stop using the lessons to continually explain why the Labour leadership isn't anti-Semitic, and it's all made up by people who just don't like cuddly, harmless, well meaning old Jez

Probably not though

Luciana Berger doesn’t have strong local support, certainly from a Labour Party members. They wanted to deselect her a couple of weeks ago because of her disloyalty to Corbyn. Suspect she’ll be gone at the next election.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:35 am

"bi-election"...

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:37 am

Labour membership and Labour voters are two entirely different things.

The membership is less than 5 per cent of the Labour vote, and aside from a few Tories and llamas most are Corbyn disciples. Not often you see a pregnant MP with police protection at a party conference though...I'll give them that.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:46 am

No by-elections called when those two Conservative MPs changed to UKIP.

Probably should be one like, but its not the norm when MPs become independants.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:48 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi houseboy, would a "may contain brexit" warning work?

I feel the same when I go into a restaurant and carefully select a dish where the ingredients don't contain gluten - only to be told that "but, there's wheat/gluten in the sauce."

That's a great idea. A kind of public health warning with a disclaimer from the mods that every attempt has been made to clearly mark a Brexit thread but they can't guarantee it won't be present.

Incidentally should we also consider the hijacking of non-Brexit threads as an act of piracy and have the post/posts removed and placed on a relevant thread.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:53 am

Been saying for weeks Labour would be more inclined to split than the Tories over Europe. New Labour are and always were federalists rather than Socialists, it is part of the reason the Federalist party i.e. Liberal collapsed so badly they lost their position as well as their supporters faith following the coalition.

We could well end up with the death of the traditional system as the Tories may well end up going the same way, but as small 'c' conservatives radical change is and has always been far less comfortable dating back to the Glorious Revolution. We assume as Brits that constitutional democracy is the normal / best system of government but as Andrew Neale pointed out on This Week a couple of weeks ago, democracy itself is only one system, that could be replaced. For central European powers dictatorships are not seen as toxic as they are in Britain, France has always been most powerful on a world stage under dictators - Louis XIV and Napoleon, as have the German states Prussia the Fredricks etc. It is nieve to think all Europe are as sold on modern democracy, which was after all the invention of the British Empire (and is a very different model than the Greek form)

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:55 am

Worth pointing out that any splits like this in a FPTP system are a bit of a waste of time unless they can energise the voting base.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:59 am

While pondering the fabulous irony of these seven calling themselves the “Independent Party” whilst resisting the U.K. regaining our independence, it then occurred to me that in the interests of consistency and due to their voters not realising this would happen in 2017, Chuka and others should campaign for a People’s Vote in their constituencies, i.e. a by-election.

I’d march them to a blackboard and tell them to write out the word “hypocrisy” 1000 times.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:06 pm

The ballot paper was only changed relatively recently to include the political affiliation of the person standing.

I think it was after the cost of adding oneself to the ballot became ridiculously cheap compared to earlier times and you would often see 10 or 15 names on a ballot paper and, occasionally, 2 people with the same name standing for different parties/causes.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:09 pm

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:11 pm

Probably will.

The Tories won't want them to survive and the Momentumbots will just intensify their attacks.

And with less people in the Labour Party who go "hang on, thats anti-semitism (or whatever)", then more of it will go unreported*

*and with their track record, is it even worth reporting it?

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:21 pm

houseboy wrote:Oh FFS the first two threads I look at on here are bloody Brexit threads - with no mention of it in the heading. If you are going to create this never ending list of Brexit threads please mark it clearly 'Brexit' then those who are bored to death with them can avoid.

Well said hb

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No by-elections called when those two Conservative MPs changed to UKIP.

Probably should be one like, but its not the norm when MPs become independants.

Nor, going back, when Shaun Woodward crossed the house to Labour in 1999. Not the norm, as you say.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:29 pm

I suspect a new Federal party is an aim. They will be hoping to draw together a pro-European party of Labour Liberals, and disaffected Conservatives. Possibly the first steps to a new party system. No one thought the Whigs who drove political change for so long would disappear, but how many times do we refer to Whig and Tory policies? While the Tories are recognizable as Conservative Unionists demonstrating why it is less certain the conservative right will make the leap.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:29 pm

houseboy wrote:Oh FFS the first two threads I look at on here are bloody Brexit threads - with no mention of it in the heading. If you are going to create this never ending list of Brexit threads please mark it clearly 'Brexit' then those who are bored to death with them can avoid.

UK (whatever your view on it) in the midst of its most important political decision / crisis for 45 / 60 / 75 years (take your pick) and one of two major parties facing biggest schism since... I can't remember when 7 sitting MPs left a party. And you didn't think the 'B' word would get a look-in?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:29 pm

Crikey, I'd forgotten that kind of thing ever happened.

Just saw something that suggests only Angela Smith would potentially result in a Con win in the by-election.

Can't see any of them winning one.

Worth bearing in mind that kate Hoey hung on to her seat, despite being the only DUP member in the Labour Party, in a constituency that voted the highest % of remain voters in the country.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:31 pm

bobinho wrote:MP’s should NOT be allowed to resign, or leave the party they are a member of, until the end of their term.

They asked for our votes, they got them, now get on with it until the next GE.

lol. Why not?

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:31 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:"bi-election"...

Would be fitting for Chuka Umunna. "Bi-elections; where you vote twice so you can get it right second time."

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:34 pm

Brexiteers will be along any minute now to defend Corbyn's TWO leadership election wins with choruses of "you lost, get over it".

Wait, no they won't. Because they have no intellectual integrity whatsoever.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:34 pm

It's been coming for a long time, and I welcome it..
Corbyn is a commy, as are momentum and his inner sanctum.
Sadly I can't support the breakaway until Brexit is delivered, so the Tories are in for an easy ride imo.
It would be nice to see some left leaning Tories join, but can't see it happening yet, if at all.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:36 pm

Not till next week and the meaningful vote schenegians anyway.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:37 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:It's been coming for a long time, and I welcome it..
Corbyn is a commy, as are momentum and his inner sanctum.
Sadly I can't support the breakaway until Brexit is delivered, so the Tories are in for an easy ride imo.
It would be nice to see some left leaning Tories join, but can't see it happening yet, if at all.

He's a Commy? How so?

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:37 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Brexiteers will be along any minute now to defend Corbyn's TWO leadership election wins with choruses of "you lost, get over it".

Wait, no they won't. Because they have no intellectual integrity whatsoever.

You're scared.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:39 pm

thatdberight wrote:You're scared.

lolwut? Why would I be scared?

Have you not learned anything from my posts? I love the chaos.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:41 pm

Ideal for me, Angela Smith is my local MP and she's alright. Now I can still vote for her without having to choose between endorsing Corbyn or being a tory t**t. Win, win.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He's a Commy? How so?

I'm not biting that. Im sure you are just as aware he's a commy. If on the slim chance you're not, just stick your head out of your shell.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:42 pm

At least they have the courage of their convictions.
I think the country needs something other than what we have at the moment on both sides of the political debate.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:44 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Chris Leslie, when asked about a by election, mumbled something about voters electing Individuals, not parties.

So it doesn't look like he'll be fighting one any time soon.

Angela Smith on BBC 2 now.

Said there's no need for her to test whether or not her constituents want her to still represent them, in another vote.

The result of her election was enacted. She became the MP.

Yet she's demanding another referendum despite the first one not being enacted.

You couldn't make this hypocrisy up. You really couldn't.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:44 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:BBC....press conference about to start where at least four MPs are expected to announce
their departure from the party, citing the handling of the Brexit issue and the anti-Semitism row.

Edit..Confirmed that four MPs are to depart.
Live on BBC 2 now.

This so called split has already happened before when the so called gang of 4 left to join the then Liberal Party to create the Dim Libs, and look where that got them...and more importantly us!

All that splits do is give the Con Artists more chance of getting in again, they just love the chance of benefiting from their “Devide and Conquer” tactics that they have been using for hundreds of years.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:47 pm

It's kind of ironic that the peoples vote lot don't want the people to have the final say when it against them.