Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

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Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:51 pm

Unconfirmed reports that Honda are going to announce tomorrow the closure of their Swindon plant in 2022, with the loss of approx 3500 jobs.

Oddly it's going to keep its EU headquarters in Bracknell and the F1 team will stay in the UK.

It's their only plant in the EU, so it's going to be interesting to see if they're relocating the plant to the EU, or production back to Japan.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by houseboy » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:17 pm

Already a thread on this bud. Sorry.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:18 pm

Not sure you can blame him for starting a thread before the other one was started

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Aclaret » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:23 pm

God just nipped in by 4 mins.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by houseboy » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:35 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Not sure you can blame him for starting a thread before the other one was started
Aah, a thousand unreserved apologies. I was trying to be polite though, not having a go, however:

note to self: check the date and time before posting next time. :(

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by DustyBawls » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:37 pm

houseboy wrote:Aah, a thousand unreserved apologies. I was trying to be polite though, not having a go, however:

note to self: check the date and time before posting next time. :(
Houseboy being polite? Have I just read that correctly?

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by houseboy » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:42 pm

DustyBawls wrote:Houseboy being polite? Have I just read that correctly?
I am deeply offended Dusty, I am awfully hurt by that. Such a cut runs deep.
:( :( :( :( :(

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by basil6345789 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:03 pm

Vast over-capacity in auto manufacture worldwide now. China and India are becoming huge players
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Siddo » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:42 pm

Swindon voted leave. Turkeys etc.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by basil6345789 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:52 pm

Siddo wrote:Swindon voted leave. Turkeys etc.
The Union boss has just been on with a senior manager and both said it's Honda reeling-in on world capacity and not related to Brexit.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:59 pm

basil6345789 wrote:The Union boss has just been on with a senior manager and both said it's Honda reeling-in on world capacity and not related to Brexit.
I know, its propaganda it’s going into overdrive before the 30/3/19 in the coming days now I’d get used to it, it’s purpose is to destabilise & divide the country even more.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by turfytopper » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:19 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Vast over-capacity in auto manufacture worldwide now. China and India are becoming huge players
Yes and when contraction happens foreign investors take their production home.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Pstotto » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:35 pm

Nationalize and rationalize the UK car industry post-Brexit. This plays into our hands.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Siddo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:39 am

So none of the many job losses and head count reduction have nothing to do with brexit.? Get real guys.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by thatdberight » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:42 am

Siddo wrote:So none of the many job losses and head count reduction have nothing to do with brexit.? Get real guys.
No. I just assume everyone dissembles.

You run an unprofitable airline for years and leave a load of people stranded on holiday when it eventually folds? Play up the Brexit-related element so people blame that.

You want to shut down a car plant but don't want to be seen giving big slap to the UK's populace for their decision, because you still want them to buy Hondas? Play down the Brexit-related element so they don't blame you.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:37 am

Siddo wrote:So none of the many job losses and head count reduction have nothing to do with brexit.? Get real guys.
Wouldn't matter if people are given sensible, logical reasons for it not to be due to Brexit, some on here won't accept those reasons and will blame Brexit anyway.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:43 am

I am starting to come to the conclusion that nothing can ever be linked to Brexit if you believe in it enough.

I'm now of the belief that if someone loses their job because of Brexit, is told by their boss its because of Brexit, the newspapers will tell them that its because of Brexit and 99% of experts in the field will tell him because its of Brexit and is then told by a very rich Brexiteer MP that its because of the EU, he'll go

"Bloody EU? Knew it!"

There has to be realisation here that long term planning because of Brexit will mean we are going to be the first port of call for multi-national businesses who are looking to streamline their business.

And lots of people going "More Project Fear" will not change that in the slightest.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:51 am

It's also a fair belief that people will blame Brexit regardless of what a business states though.

If Honda states it's moving it's plant to the EU, then yeah we can blame Brexit.
If it states it's moving production back to Japan, like Nissan did with one of their models recently, some will blame Brexit anyway, that's how blinkered they are....

When Peugeot/Citroen moved production out of the UK back in the mid noughties it was classed as a business decision and it was left as that.
Same with Ford moving the transit to Turkey.

If those two things happened in this climate it would be attributed to Brexit...
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Herts Clarets » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:56 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I am starting to come to the conclusion that nothing can ever be linked to Brexit if you believe in it enough.

I'm now of the belief that if someone loses their job because of Brexit, is told by their boss its because of Brexit, the newspapers will tell them that its because of Brexit and 99% of experts in the field will tell him because its of Brexit and is then told by a very rich Brexiteer MP that its because of the EU, he'll go

"Bloody EU? Knew it!"
Production at Honda Swindon has halved over a number of years, way before the teferendum never mind the leave date

Falling demand for the Civic which is made at Swindon,increased demand for SUVs which aren't made there

Massive fall in the demand for diesel engines which are made at this plant thanks to strict regulations imposed by? You got it, the EU.

Honda making a strategic decision to consolidate manufacturing back in Japan after agreeing a removal of tariffs between EU and Japan car sales.

But hey, as 29 March approaches expect a lot more hysterical over reaction from the Remain camp, where anything from inclement weather upwards will be blamed on Brexit.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Sproggy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:56 am

The EU have negotiated a free trade deal with Japan. Honda have no reason to build cars in the UK or anywhere else in Europe for that matter.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:03 am

I did say all that yesterday to be fair.

My post is aimed at those who will continue to refuse to blame Brexit for anything.

I posted a link yesterday to how various factors are at play here, and that includes Brexit

If you really want to know the effects of Brexit on our supply chains, then ask Herts. That is literally his job.

I'm sure with his 100% Brexit credentials you might listen to him, and I'm 100% sure his intellectual honesty will stop him from pretending that its all going to be fine.

Anyway, must shoot have day off with family visiting Liverpool!

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:06 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I did say all that yesterday to be fair.

My post is aimed at those who will continue to refuse to blame Brexit for anything.

I posted a link yesterday to how various factors are at play here, and that includes Brexit

If you really want to know the effects of Brexit on our supply chains, then ask Herts. That is literally his job.

I'm sure with his 100% Brexit credentials you might listen to him, and I'm 100% sure his intellectual honesty will stop him from pretending that its all going to be fine.

Anyway, must shoot have day off with family visiting Liverpool!

But if there are people who will refuse to blame brexit for anything, is there really any point keep going on and on about it.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:13 am

Yes

Come on Claretonthecoast, the way some on here swallow literally any old **** about Brexit because it suits them too is a lot harder to do when someone is pointing out that what they believe is 99% garbage isn't it?

Spiral made a good point on the banning political voting thread - its was very popular last year to keep political threads. This year it isn't.

If that is because people are pointing out that the Brexit of peoples dreams is exactly that, and people don't want to be reminded of that (which I think its safe to say is normal reaction when you've ****** up bigstyle) then its a good thing for people to be reminded that they have made a mistake.

Now, really got to go!

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:24 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yes

Come on Claretonthecoast, the way some on here swallow literally any old **** about Brexit because it suits them too is a lot harder to do when someone is pointing out that what they believe is 99% garbage isn't it?

Spiral made a good point on the banning political voting thread - its was very popular last year to keep political threads. This year it isn't.

If that is because people are pointing out that the Brexit of peoples dreams is exactly that, and people don't want to be reminded of that (which I think its safe to say is normal reaction when you've ****** up bigstyle) then its a good thing for people to be reminded that they have made a mistake.

Now, really got to go!

I don't disagree with you, there are people on both sides who believe every single word the side the favour says, but nothing anybody says to them is going to change that. Having the odd political thread was fine but when brexit manages to find itself on threads with nothing to do with it then something needs to change. It is a football forum at the end of the day.

If someone joined a political forum and spoke nothing but football how would that be tolerated ?

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by AndyClaret » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:30 am

For the hard of hearing.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:38 am

Honda have stated it's due to them switching over to electric vehicles.

Interesting that they'd close down a plant instead of retooling it, but there we go.

Can we carry on blaming Brexit now?

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by dushanbe » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:40 am

I’m absolutely no expert and unlike some on here don’t claim to be..However could these car companies moving production back to japan have anything at all to do with the The EU and Japan's Economic Partnership Agreement which came into being on 1st February?
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by SmudgetheClaret » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:11 am

This has far more to do with crazy climate politics than Brexit that’s for sure ..

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:19 am

dushanbe wrote:I’m absolutely no expert and unlike some on here don’t claim to be..However could these car companies moving production back to japan have anything at all to do with the The EU and Japan's Economic Partnership Agreement which came into being on 1st February?
That means you're trying to blame the EU, something forbidden on UTC.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by dushanbe » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:27 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:That means you're trying to blame the EU, something forbidden on UTC.
Don't put words in my mouth Sid. Perhaps it means the exact opposite? Perhaps it means that had we remained in the EU, Honda wouldn't have felt the need to relocate to Japan just to continue with the same trading conditions they already had here in the UK before Brexit.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:42 am

dushanbe wrote:Don't put words in my mouth Sid. Perhaps it means the exact opposite? Perhaps it means that had we remained in the EU, Honda wouldn't have felt the need to relocate to Japan just to continue with the same trading conditions they already had here in the UK before Brexit.
Nissan moved production of a solely diesel model back to Japan, being in the EU quite probably wouldn't have made any difference to that one.

Honda look like they're making a business decision that could well be influenced by the new deal with the EU.
Someone else has also pointed out that most of their Civics are sold in North America, so there isn't really any need to make it over here in Europe.

I don't need to put any words in your mouth, it was called humour, so a big whoosh for you.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by dushanbe » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
I don't need to put any words in your mouth, it was called humour, so a big whoosh for you.
No idea how I didn't pick up on a gag as good as that to be honest. I feel silly now.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Herts Clarets » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:54 am

dushanbe wrote:Don't put words in my mouth Sid. Perhaps it means the exact opposite? Perhaps it means that had we remained in the EU, Honda wouldn't have felt the need to relocate to Japan just to continue with the same trading conditions they already had here in the UK before Brexit.
Or if the EU didn't have such stringent restrictions on diesel engine emissions that most if not all manufacturers had to cheat to pass them. As I mentioned previously, the Swindon plant manufactures the Honda diesel engine. Demand for diesel engine cars has fallen significantly in the past couple of years, despite them being far more fuel efficient than a petrol engine. I have just bought a 320d BMW after I wrote off my previous car 2 weeks ago. If I need it, I can get 8 seconds 0-60, or if like yesterday, my commute to work gave me an average of 66mpg. Best of both worlds that you will never get with a petrol engine.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:54 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Honda have stated it's due to them switching over to electric vehicles.

Interesting that they'd close down a plant instead of retooling it, but there we go.

Can we carry on blaming Brexit now?
I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge in the car industry mate, and I too don't understand why they wont retool the facility because the work force there is highly skilled and could easily change to produce another vehicle, and you'd have to accept that the uncertainty over Brexit would affect that.

I mentioned on the Brexit thread that a close friend of mine who is part of the senior management at Honda told me that his opinion was that the main reason for the closure was Brexit and he alluded to others with the same view; I accept that is his personal view. I suspect that the publicly the corporate message will that Brexit has nothing to do with the decision, however as I know for myself - privately there are those who will attribute the decision to Brexit.

In answer to your question "Can we carry on blaming Brexit now?" - Not really. We cant ignore that the political aspect of Brexit in this country will have had an effect on business decisions being made across the planet and not just here or in the EU. I'll agree that not everything is entirely the fault of Brexit if you agree that Brexit will affect everything to a varying degree - we all need to stop just having polar opposite opinions and recognise that there is middle ground.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Mala591 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:08 am

Herts Clarets wrote:Or if the EU didn't have such stringent restrictions on diesel engine emissions that most if not all manufacturers had to cheat to pass them. As I mentioned previously, the Swindon plant manufactures the Honda diesel engine. Demand for diesel engine cars has fallen significantly in the past couple of years, despite them being far more fuel efficient than a petrol engine. I have just bought a 320d BMW after I wrote off my previous car 2 weeks ago. If I need it, I can get 8 seconds 0-60, or if like yesterday, my commute to work gave me an average of 66mpg. Best of both worlds that you will never get with a petrol engine.
Why didn't you buy a British made Honda Civic diesel ?

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Claretforever » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:09 am

I don't know why people are trying to suggest that it's purely down to Brexit or the EU/Japanese trade deal? Honda have explained it isn't for a start, but as stated elsewhere, they invested £20m+ only 2-3 years ago so that they could produce 800 vehicles per day. Despite this, due to inefficiencies in the plant they can barely reach 600, so are 75% of where they want to be. It's actually running at c.570. Of those 570, only 60-70 of the vehicles are for the EU, with the rest being shipped to the United States. So the deal with the EU affects only 10-11% of their production from that plant. A better trade deal with the United States would benefit Honda more than a deal with the EU where the Civic is concerned. The sales of Civic in the EU trail behind the CRV (taken away from the Swindon plant a few years ago and manufactured in Japan and the USA, aside from small batches), and the Jazz (manufactured in Mexico primarily and shipped into the EU).

The trade deal actually benefits the EU quite substantially, and the EU were directed to negotiate terms with Japan back in 2013. It's the 6th most important trading partner for the EU according to the fact sheets on the trade deal, with €1 billion in tariffs currently paid each year that will be saved. It's said that Japan will save on the current 10% tariff imposed, which will reduce gradually until 2027 to zero, BUT they have to change their business to focus more on electric cars, which the Swindon plant doesn't help them with currently.

A side note is that the plant has, I'm told, 5-800 temporary agency staff, so they'll likely be the first to go. I doubt the media will explain that, but it's been feast or famine for Honda for years at the plant. Often taking on lots of staff, then laying off again 1-2 years later.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:09 am

Mala591 wrote:Why didn't you buy a British made Honda Civic diesel ?
I'll answer that as I have a Swindon built Honda Civic. I cant get to 60 in 8 seconds like he can in his 320d - whereas I get slightly better mpg. Horses for courses...

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by JohnMcGreal » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:02 am

It's pretty clear that the catalyst for this decision is the fact that the UK is leaving the EU. That's a game changer for a lot of companies here.

That is the first step in the process where Honda has to say 'Ok, we need to move our production somewhere else.'

Now if there was no FTA between the EU and Japan, 'somewhere else' would almost certainly have been another country in the EU.

But now there is a FTA between the EU and Japan. So if Honda is going to go through the hassle of moving their production, they might as well just move it back to Japan.

Anyone who thinks Brexit had no influence in this decision is kidding themselves.

It's a real shame for the 3500 Honda workers and many more who work in the supply chain.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:10 pm

Ok so if we weren't leaving the EU and Honda still decided to move, like several other car manufacturers have done over the years, what would you attribute the blame too?
Would it solely be the trade agreement?

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by keith1879 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:15 pm

Honda have said that this isn't linked to Brexit. I'm happy to accept that. Just as I'm happy to accept that when Airbus cite Brexit as the problem and Nissan cite it as part of the problem then they too are telling me the truth. I can't have it both ways.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Claretforever » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:15 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:It's pretty clear that the catalyst for this decision is the fact that the UK is leaving the EU. That's a game changer for a lot of companies here.

That is the first step in the process where Honda has to say 'Ok, we need to move our production somewhere else.'

Now if there was no FTA between the EU and Japan, 'somewhere else' would almost certainly have been another country in the EU.

But now there is a FTA between the EU and Japan. So if Honda is going to go through the hassle of moving their production, they might as well just move it back to Japan.

Anyone who thinks Brexit had no influence in this decision is kidding themselves.

It's a real shame for the 3500 Honda workers and many more who work in the supply chain.
I ask with respect, but did you miss the bit in my post where I explained that the Civic is not a big selling vehicle in Europe, and the EU market amounts to only 10% of production at Swindon?

The vehicles and technology which will benefit Honda the most are already being produced elsewhere in the world.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:18 pm

Like rabid lunatics.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:30 pm

In fairness John blames brexit for it going dark at night
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by bfcjg » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:39 pm

Perhaps a bigger question should be why don't we have a British owned mass production car manufacturer, was it down to Thatcher and Blair and their love of market forces, takeovers etc etc ? When the EU negotiated this deal they knew it wouldn't effect France, Germany Italy etc as they have mass producers.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by keith1879 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:42 pm

bfcjg wrote:Perhaps a bigger question should be why don't we have a British owned mass production car manufacturer, was it down to Thatcher and Blair and their love of market forces, takeovers etc etc ? When the EU negotiated this deal they knew it wouldn't effect France, Germany Italy etc as they have mass producers.
It might also be pertinent to ask whether the UK (as a member of the EU) were involved in negotiating or accepting this deal. because in future of course we will have no say at all in such a case.

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:45 pm

bfcjg wrote:Perhaps a bigger question should be why don't we have a British owned mass production car manufacturer, was it down to Thatcher and Blair and their love of market forces, takeovers etc etc ? When the EU negotiated this deal they knew it wouldn't effect France, Germany Italy etc as they have mass producers.
The last one was Rover and it was so far behind the rest of the world when it came to production it was embarrassing and a bit of a relief when it vanished.
The Unions in the 70's didn't help with their resistance to modernisation/business streamlining, because that's when we fell behind everyone else and were producing real pieces of crap when compared to things being made in places like Germany.

Can't really blame Thatcher or Blair for it.
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Murger » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:47 pm

So Honda have said it's got nothing to do with Brexit, but the remainers don't believe them. There's a surprise. What if they' came out and said the opposite? Would you still not believe them?
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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Wokingclaret » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:11 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:Or if the EU didn't have such stringent restrictions on diesel engine emissions that most if not all manufacturers had to cheat to pass them. As I mentioned previously, the Swindon plant manufactures the Honda diesel engine. Demand for diesel engine cars has fallen significantly in the past couple of years, despite them being far more fuel efficient than a petrol engine. I have just bought a 320d BMW after I wrote off my previous car 2 weeks ago. If I need it, I can get 8 seconds 0-60, or if like yesterday, my commute to work gave me an average of 66mpg. Best of both worlds that you will never get with a petrol engine.
And less C02 emissions

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by littlemissclaret » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:25 pm

As previously mentioned (and copied), if Honda have said that this isn't linked to Brexit, I'm happy to accept that. Just as I'm happy to accept that when Airbus cite Brexit as the problem and Nissan cite it as part of the problem then they too are telling the truth. You can't have it both ways.

Of course, if the Eu-Japan Trade agreement was signed without our say-so, then it is, in some small way, linked to Brexit. Was it?

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Re: Honda - Possibly going to close Swindon plant 2022

Post by Claretforever » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:16 pm

littlemissclaret wrote:As previously mentioned (and copied), if Honda have said that this isn't linked to Brexit, I'm happy to accept that. Just as I'm happy to accept that when Airbus cite Brexit as the problem and Nissan cite it as part of the problem then they too are telling the truth. You can't have it both ways.

Of course, if the Eu-Japan Trade agreement was signed without our say-so, then it is, in some small way, linked to Brexit. Was it?
Seeing as the EU member states decided in 2013 that they wished to do a trade deal with Japan (approved in December 2018), and it was long before the Brexit referendum, I'd suggest we also agreed to it at the time?
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