O/T TV Placement

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Hi All,

Looking for some advise, I recently spent a small fortune on a good Dennon AVR and Decent Dali 5.1 speakers and 2 front Dali Atmos Speakers. the sound is fantastic, BUT my TV is placed in the corner of the room neatly in the alcove, and from everything i have looked at and read , you can never get the best out of your system as the speaker lay out would not create the best sound field. So with this in mind I am contemplating putting the TV on the chimney breast and creating a false chimney breast front around it so it gives the effect of the TV being sunk in to the chimney breast, and then the speakers can go in the perfect place square on to the rest of the room, but at a cost as when you view my TV from an angle the screen isn't the best, so those sitting to the left and right are not getting the best viewing pleasure. So it seems a battle of viewing v sound,or would the gain on the sound not be that much of an improvement? If any aficionados out there that could advise? or anyone who has had the same problem and already committed to the change could advise if it was worth it, then it would be much appreciated.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:51 pm

I would put vision above sound, in this situation. Put it where it's best for people to watch. And perhaps try and work out a way for you to move the speakers further away. One would expect the speakers to be able to run off bluetooth?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm

So many factors to consider to be honest. At the end of the day though, unless you have a living room that is shaped specifically for audio enhancement you'll be lucky to hear too much difference with consumer based sound systems. I had some really nice kit going back 10-12 years and I spent a lot of time and money getting the speakers set "right" to find out that the quality of the audio transmitted varies from channel to channel and programme to programme. Even Blu Rays had differing quality. I think you really would need to be a true audiophile to notice too much difference.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:12 pm

No they are wired, and the cable cost a bloody fortune too, bu there is enough on each leg to move them. I have tried to explain what i mean with my 5 yeard old computer design kills below and what it should look like if i went down the chimney breast option.

: Rough Drawing.jpg (48.01 KiB) Viewed 3134 times

: hl5m3cdoxko9pmkmc9h1.jpg (34.14 KiB) Viewed 3134 times

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:23 pm

Consider getting an OLED? then you can have near perfect viewing angles whilst moving the TV to a more central position.

Your atmos speakers need to go on top or near to the front speakers, but you already know that from the image you posted.

It may have been better to opt for atmos enabled or in-ceiling speakers if you want to retain the current set up.

edit* if you have a modern LCD using a VA type panel your viewing angles on the side sofa are already going to be bad anyway, don't see too much of a difference in this case moving the TV central - LCDs, especially those with VA type panels are going to look bad at a tight angle.

DustyBawls · Post by **DustyBawls** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:32 pm

ClaretAl, from that design you might need a telescope to view the television.

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:09 pm

Some posh folk on here, two sofas?

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Don’t place it to high on the chimney breast. I’ve seen a few above a fireplace and they give you neckache.

Gerry Hattrick · Post by **Gerry Hattrick** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:09 pm

[quote="ClaretAL"]................. if i went down the chimney breast option.

Can you wait that long?
]

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:25 pm

gawthorpe_view wrote:Some posh folk on here, two sofas?

And you're one of them. Sofas? settees, more like.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:28 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:Don’t place it to high on the chimney breast. I’ve seen a few above a fireplace and they give you neckache.

Mine is on the wall and I've moved it lower, twice in fact!

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:02 pm

I've seen em on chimney breasts above open fires.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:16 pm

I know nothing of AV set ups - I'm a two speaker audio man. However you should check out the various forums and other sources for good advice on speaker placement etc.. Here's a source I found for Dolby Atmos - I dare say you know it:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With all speakers, whether stereo or surround, placement of speakers and listening chairs is crucial, especially for bass. You can hear this by walking round the room whilst playing something with noticeable bass. Some bass frequencies will sound louder, and others quieter, in different places in the room. It may also be boomy - you hear thuddddd instead of thud. This is partly why people use a sub (or subs). They are not so much for lowering what bass frequencies you can hear, nor making bass louder, but to help control bass problems in the room.

For my two channel system I have a dedicated room and use bass traps and other room treatment plus an equaliser to get the sound the best I can. In a family room this room treatment, and ideal positioning, may not be so desirable but you can get Digital Signal Processing (DSP) gear that will help compensate for that. One I know of is:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically it involves using a microphone and software to measure the room and then make filters through which the sound is played before going to your speakers.

It looks complicated and it is but they have made it as easy as possible and, from the comments on two channel products, it works well.

Getting this placement right, if possible, and/or correcting the sound, is much more important then expensive cables etc..

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:20 pm

Ha. I just found this in my travels, post 97. It will give you some idea!!!

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ ... t-20627809" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:21 pm

Not an option to have it in the window?

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:36 pm

Hipper wrote: may not be so desirable but you can get Digital Signal Processing (DSP) gear that will help compensate for that. One I know of is:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically it involves using a microphone and software to measure the room and then make filters through which the sound is played before going to your speakers.

It looks complicated and it is but they have made it as easy as possible and, from the comments on two channel products, it works well.

Getting this placement right, if possible, and/or correcting the sound, is much more important then expensive cables etc..

My AVR comes with set up as you describe link below, Audyssey vMultEQ, is this what you mean?

https://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/home ... /avrx4400h

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:37 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:Not an option to have it in the window?

Note really

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:39 pm

They auto setup is all well and good but it still is only "best case scenario" doesn't make up for the fact you have bad speaker placeement, the worse is the second atmos module.

icu81b4 · Post by **icu81b4** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:49 pm

Get the atmos speaker that is currently situated behind your tv in the first diagram and place it in the bay window - sorted

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:50 pm

superdimitri wrote:They auto setup is all well and good but it still is only "best case scenario" doesn't make up for the fact you have bad speaker placeement, the worse is the second atmos module.

For the atmos i have https://www.dali-speakers.com/loudspeak ... lteco-c-1/ according to the bloke at Richer Sounds if i switch to up firing and place at the ceiling height in the room my size it will fill from the top, and to be fair i had them sat on top of my front L and R and they didn't sound anywhere near as good as they do at ceiling height so I presume he is right.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:54 pm

gawthorpe_view wrote:Some posh folk on here, two sofas?

Dont know many who dont..

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:08 pm

Definitely worth putting the TV in the chimney breast but as mentioned above, get it as low as you can or at least have a tilt bracket, but that does sort of spoil the flush look. We built out from the breast to ensure that the heat from the fire doesn’t hit the TV.

I dont have any problems with viewing angles with an OLED so might be an option if the Atmos hasn’t eaten all your budget.

I’ve had all the speakers chased in and Atmos in the ceiling but not got the bloody amp yet. God knows when I will be allowed that, apparently a new bathroom is a higher priority!

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:17 pm

added a quick photograph to try and show better than my crappy drawing, which you can get the general room size from but not how it would be on the wall.

: 20190218_195447.jpg (1.84 MiB) Viewed 2798 times

It would mean loosing the fire but we dont use that anyway so would use the vacant space behind it as shelving to hold the AV equipment. but once the chimney is studded out and that work done, there is no going back hens the question on if anyone had done similar.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:53 pm

I’ve got an identical floor plan to yours although mirrored. I had a log burner fitted when I bought the house and fitted the tv on the chimney breast. I personally wouldn’t build it in as it could look a bit tacky and restricts you when you buy want to buy new tv.

I routed the bricks in the chimney breast to create a path for the power cable and hdmis (2 hdmis wired in in case one fails). I have a speaker in each alcove and on the rear walls behind either end of the sofa. They are Cambridge Audio bookshelf speakers so pretty small so the centre speaker fits on the timber beam above the fireplace. I made sure the tv was as low as I could get it. Works fine for me and not a cable in sight.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:56 pm

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:13 pm

Like it Riley and you may have a point about building it in. I was looking at the 2 below as an in between, but the slate slips would be grey in the alcoves with with an up and down lightwe then chimney breast plain with built in lighting.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:20 pm

I’d go for it if I were you. You’ve got some pricey speakers and you’re not getting the best out of them. I’ve always preferred the tv central and wall mounted though. Frees up space and works well with surround sound. Alcove cupboards can help to hide all the AV equipment as well as the AV receiver can be pretty unsightly, especially with all the cables going into the back of it.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:31 pm

After seeing the pictures I agree with rileybobs

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:33 pm

Rileybobs, post24, makes a great point re: chasing 2 HDMIs.
The daughter chased 1 in, because of OCD, but a visitor pulled the tv away from the wall on its extender and ripped the head off the HDMI. F.ooked. Cables on show now.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:35 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:Rileybobs, post24, makes a great point re: chasing 2 HDMIs.
The daughter chased 1 in, because of OCD, but a visitor pulled the tv away from the wall on its extender and ripped the head off the HDMI. F.ooked. Cables on show now.

Chasing in!!! That was the phrase I was looking for but my mind was drawing a blank!

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:38 pm

All the cables would go up the chimney and back out at the TV point so could use a failed cable to pull the new 1 thorough but yes good idea and no harm having an extra in there.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:10 pm

Not quite finished but this is what we had done.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:15 pm

The oak on grey goes really well which i hadn't thought about but the TV might be a tad too high for us. Looks like you had the same dilemma as me, as in no way back if it didn't work any regrets?

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:24 pm

No, none at all. The sofa reclines so I’ve not noticed the height difference too much. If it wasn’t for wanting to keep a fire in, I could have lowered the TV so if you don’t want a fire, you should get the height you want.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:16 am

1. You really don't want the TV to be so high. Aim it so the centre of the panel is at eye height. This is especially true if your TV is using an ips type LCD panel and not only will you get neck ache but you'll get obvious glow and screen uniformity issues too.

2. Regarding your Atmos speakers you should be able to configure them as front heights if you can mount them up high close to the ceiling. They will need to point to the main listening position and can't simply be facing square depending on the wall. They will give a greater immersion and audio depth to the front and they will work with Atmos the same way any speakers will but they are not part of the spec so any over head effects will be limited.
It's not really relevant discussing the differences though since it will be much better having them as front heights than it will have them as up firing speakers.

If you keep the same setup can you mount the front heights above the current left and right speakers this way? Can you place the rear speakers angled towards the main listening position?

As long as the angles are good you can retain good sound without having a symmetrical setup.

For the record I've been there with the whole fireplace thing myself and would never do it again unless the TV can be at eye level. It was too distracting and uncomfortable having it high. At the time I also moved it above the fireplace for the exact same reasons as you, albeit at the time it was for a traditional 9.1 layout.

In the end I moved the system to a dedicated room.

It's worth checking https://www.avforums.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; too as there are lots of useful threads there. I moderate in the TV section but know of a few members some of which are professional installers who will know more than I do.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:06 am

cheers SD, some good advice there. My rear speakers are angled to the centre of the room, but because of the shape of the Atmos speakers it is hard to find a swivel bracket to place them on hence them being square on to the wall. https://www.dali-speakers.com/loudspeak ... lteco-c-1/

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:29 am

DCWat wrote:No, none at all. The sofa reclines so I’ve not noticed the height difference too much. If it wasn’t for wanting to keep a fire in, I could have lowered the TV so if you don’t want a fire, you should get the height you want.

Lucky you, with the recliner. The problem I’ve found, especially on leather, is that by looking up I end up sliding off the settee. I’d suggest measuring your head height, seated, and level the middle of the screen at that height, possibly cos I have OCD also!

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:48 pm

They are good speakers but for the purpose you may just be better off using some satellite speakers so you can mount them as you please.

If its easier you can just put them on top of your front left and right speakers facing up to the ceiling but the effect won't be great.

Of course the ultimate solution is having the ceiling speakers like they have in the cinemas.

Last solution would be to use them as rear heights, maybe its easier to use them that way than it is for front heights.

Stickers · Post by **Stickers** » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:51 am

If you are getting rid of the fire can’t you rearrange your floor plan a bit. Move one of the settees more into the bay window and put the tv where sofa 1 is with both sofas facing it in front of the chimney wall?

Im_not_Robbie_Blake · Post by **Im_not_Robbie_Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:05 am

Our fans must be the poshest in the land!