Change from politics: car advice?

CaptainKirk · Post by **CaptainKirk** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:06 pm

My daughter is looking to change her car.
Currently has a Fiesta, three door one litre and is looking to move up a bit,
Certainly wants five doors and seems to like Fords.
Fiestas and Focus fit that particular bill.
Is looking to buy rather than lease purchase as at present.
All a bit general I know but any advice including places of purchase would be a help.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:08 pm

How old's the Fiesta, Cap'n and what sort of budget is envisaged ?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:10 pm

Not another car thread...!

Sounds like she knows what she wants and won’t go far wrong with the options from Ford. Similar or better quality from the Japanese and Korean makes. My advice would be to test drive several different cars and have a score card to record thoughts and rate them

CaptainKirk · Post by **CaptainKirk** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:13 pm

2014 and is open minded re extra cost.
I have told her to try more than one make but you can’t tell kids owt these days!

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:25 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:2014 and is open minded re extra cost.
I have told her to try more than one make but you can’t tell kids owt these days!

I’m guessing she knows what colour she wants...?

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm

If you value her Fiesta on webuyanycar.com and add £400, then that's roughly what the Fiesta is worth, ( good condition, 2 keys, Service History ) , on a private sale basis through Autotrader etc ..

Motorpoint sell cars from 6 - 18 months old, so the initial depreciation is taken by the first owner. They'll have plenty of Fiesta's and Focus's in different specifications, and the website is pretty good, cars are removed within an hour of them being sold. They've only got £500 across the cars, so they operate a fixed price policy....

https://www.webuyanycar.com/

https://www.motorpoint.co.uk/

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:31 pm

Clarets4me wrote:How old's the Fiesta, Cap'n and what sort of budget is envisaged ?

That’s not a bad question, especially if you go on auto-trader/eBay ect, should narrow it down in order to find something suitable.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 pm

If she's adamant she wants a Focus, 1 litre turbo 125ps unless she's doing rocket ship miles, then the small diesel will give the best returns. Zetec spec offers best compromise for toys to cash ratio.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:51 pm

Stay away from the 1.6 diesel in Ford's/Peugeot.

It's a Peugeot engine and it's a complete and utter bag of toss, worst engine Peugeot have ever released.
It's so bad that when the turbo needs to be replaced the supplier doesn't actually warranty them unless certain things are done to the engine first and even then it's unlikely to be honoured.

What sort of year car is she thinking of purchasing?

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:00 pm

As her existing Fiesta is 4 - 5 years old, and knowing the good Cap'n as I do, I suspect up to 18 months old ...

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:10 pm

Definitely stay away from the 1.6 diesel then in the Ford's/Peugeot/Citroen.

The 1.4 petrol engine in the BMW/Mini/Peugeot/Citroen is a bit of an odd one too, the way the engine is cooled is potentially an issue.

Petrol is the way forward if she isn't doing lots of miles, stay well away from diesel.
Many places are looking at charges for diesels to enter towns in the near future.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:16 pm

Buying cars is a mugs game.

Lease them so you don't get stung with garage bills. Get a brand spanker every 3 years and not stuck with a car that's lost all value.

Obviously got to find a decent price lease.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:25 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Buying cars is a mugs game.

Lease them so you don't get stung with garage bills. Get a brand spanker every 3 years and not stuck with a car that's lost all value.

Obviously got to find a decent price lease.

All well and good until you have to give it back and they try and sting you for thousands of fake damage... as happened to me

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:53 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Buying cars is a mugs game.

Lease them so you don't get stung with garage bills. Get a brand spanker every 3 years and not stuck with a car that's lost all value.

Obviously got to find a decent price lease.

Ah leasing cars and getting stung at the end with a final payment if keeping that's more than the car is worth, mileage limitations, damage needs to be covered etc.

Nah I'd rather buy.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:33 pm

Depends what she uses a car for, if it's occasional use and you have car club near you then I would investigate that first.

If she uses it every day and wants to carry things like furniture in it then generally speaking she won't beat a Honda Jazz 1.4 5-door hatchback at about 5/7 years old.

If you can get an automatic one then so much the better as it makes small journeys so relaxing.

We inherited one about 4 years ago and frankly it's the best all-round car we have ever had as far as comfort, reliability, and economic to run are concerned, you will have to look at the latest prices for the years like any car but would recommend buying private so you can see the "Whites of there eyes" so to speak.

You don't see them advertised much which in itself is a good sign, good luck with your choice and do let us know how you get on.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:51 am

Rick_Muller wrote:All well and good until you have to give it back and they try and sting you for thousands of fake damage... as happened to me

Why did you allow yourself to pay for fake damage?

Would you not dispute it in court? With an independent professional as judge?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:53 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Why did you allow yourself to pay for fake damage?

Would you not dispute it in court? With an independent professional as judge?

You missed the bit where he said they try.

I remember the thread on here about it, but it's quite common for people to get stung at the end of their lease agreements, mainly because they haven't read the small print or because the lease companies get creative.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:56 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Ah leasing cars and getting stung at the end with a final payment if keeping that's more than the car is worth, mileage limitations, damage needs to be covered etc.

Nah I'd rather buy.

The idea is you don't keep them as 3 years is around the point things start to go wrong with the car.

It's the balance of car parts and labour being more expensive than the cars worth these days.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:16 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Stay away from the 1.6 diesel in Ford's/Peugeot.

It's a Peugeot engine and it's a complete and utter bag of toss, worst engine Peugeot have ever released.
It's so bad that when the turbo needs to be replaced the supplier doesn't actually warranty them unless certain things are done to the engine first and even then it's unlikely to be honoured.

What sort of year car is she thinking of purchasing?

Oh. My. God.

Now here is a piece of advice that I would massively echo (if that’s possible!). I once had one with endless problems. An utter turd.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:23 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:The idea is you don't keep them as 3 years is around the point things start to go wrong with the car.

It's the balance of car parts and labour being more expensive than the cars worth these days.

Ah yes, the complaint about cost of labour and parts.

We live in a society that will happily pay through the nose for holidays, electrical goods and numerous other items but will poo their pants at paying £100 for a service on something that carries their families around and can kill if not maintained properly.

Thanks for reminding me of that one.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:29 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Why did you allow yourself to pay for fake damage?

Would you not dispute it in court? With an independent professional as judge?

I didn't - they gave me a large bill for damage that either didn't exist or they caused after collecting the car from me. Luckily I had the car cleaned and check by myself and my nephew (who works at the Honda plant in Swindon) and we photographed everything before collection day (100+ photos). The whole process of collecting the car from the customer is flawed and open to abuse by the lease company, as they make you sign to say that you accept their driver is unable to verify the state of the car on collection and that you have to wait for their expert to check it at the depot, usually a BCA site - they dont tell you this until the day they collect. Between collection and the inspection anything could happen, and did to my car but as I said I had good photos and proof that it was not damaged before collection. Its a minefield, and the lease companies will try anything to fleece people.

The sad thing is, my car was scrapped because it wasn't financially viable to them - it was a 4 year old Honda Civic diesel with 100k miles and I wanted to buy it, but they wouldn't let me due to their rules around leasing. It would have run perfectly fine for another 75-100k miles with servicing and only cost me about £4k, but they scrapped it instead - there's no sense in that, I'm sure someone from a leasing firm will tell me why they did that - possibly recovered the cost via their insurance perhaps...? who knows...

Still, I have heard many other stories like mine regarding leasing firms trying the same, and usually most people end up paying £300-£500 damage to get rid of the car, its seen as part of the lease process and the risk people take. I say it's a loophole that they will exploit to recover losses from things like dieselgate etc and their own stupid lease fees based upon over inflated residual values to try and make the lease cost more attractive to customers.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:32 am

Why not just buy a Toyota? Can't get much more reliable than that (well, perhaps a Honda as mentioned by South West Claret).

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:40 am

Rick_Muller wrote:I didn't - they gave me a large bill for damage that either didn't exist or they caused after collecting the car from me. Luckily I had the car cleaned and check by myself and my nephew (who works at the Honda plant in Swindon) and we photographed everything before collection day (100+ photos). The whole process of collecting the car from the customer is flawed and open to abuse by the lease company, as they make you sign to say that you accept their driver is unable to verify the state of the car on collection and that you have to wait for their expert to check it at the depot, usually a BCA site - they dont tell you this until the day they collect. Between collection and the inspection anything could happen, and did to my car but as I said I had good photos and proof that it was not damaged before collection. Its a minefield, and the lease companies will try anything to fleece people.

The sad thing is, my car was scrapped because it wasn't financially viable to them - it was a 4 year old Honda Civic diesel with 100k miles and I wanted to buy it, but they wouldn't let me due to their rules around leasing. It would have run perfectly fine for another 75-100k miles with servicing and only cost me about £4k, but they scrapped it instead - there's no sense in that, I'm sure someone from a leasing firm will tell me why they did that - possibly recovered the cost via their insurance perhaps...? who knows...

Still, I have heard many other stories like mine regarding leasing firms trying the same, and usually most people end up paying £300-£500 damage to get rid of the car, its seen as part of the lease process and the risk people take. I say it's a loophole that they will exploit to recover losses from things like dieselgate etc and their own stupid lease fees based upon over inflated residual values to try and make the lease cost more attractive to customers.

Good job you were on the ball. I haven't heard of anyone around here getting scammed as yet but it's worth knowing about.
More and more people are having to scrap their cars these days for 150 quid after trying to sell for 2k for months.
Cars aren't worth anything if nobody will buy it.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:48 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Ah yes, the complaint about cost of labour and parts.

We live in a society that will happily pay through the nose for holidays, electrical goods and numerous other items but will poo their pants at paying £100 for a service on something that carries their families around and can kill if not maintained properly.

Thanks for reminding me of that one.

What are you on about Sid?

It's about working out the financial benefits of leasing cars or buying?

Not whether you prefer a 50 inch plasma over your families safety.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:01 am

Clarets4me wrote:As her existing Fiesta is 4 - 5 years old, and knowing the good Cap'n as I do, I suspect up to 18 months old ...

Check out Motorpoint .... most cars 12 months old.

I have bought 5 cars over the past 15 years from them.
Including both our current drives (a DS4 Citroen the wifes daily driver and my Jag XF3.0S oil burner) all of which were over 50% less than purchasing new, with around 12000 miles on the clock.

No hard sell but no haggling the price you see is what you pay and their trade in prices are better than "we buy any car.com'" buy it now price.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:02 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:What are you on about Sid?

It's about working out the financial benefits of leasing cars or buying?

Not whether you prefer a 50 inch plasma over your families safety.

Yeah, with leasing people are under the belief they're saving money right up until they hand it back and get stung.
They don't want to pay for parts to be replaced if they don't have too, because they fail to understand the need to maintain a vehicle.

Also it's an image thing in this society, keeping up with the Jones", so it's all about having the newest car they can.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 am

Bosscat wrote:Check out Motorpoint .... most cars 12 months old.

I have bought 5 cars over the past 15 years from them.
Including both our current drives (a DS4 Citroen the wifes daily driver and my Jag XF3.0S oil burner) all of which were over 50% less than purchasing new, with around 12000 miles on the clock.

No hard sell but no haggling the price you see is what you pay and their trade in prices are better than "we buy any car.com'" buy it now price.

Motor point make their money from the car finance or should i say the salesmen certainly do.

crundale · Post by **crundale** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:09 am

I had a run of lousy cars that were constantly in the garage. The mechanic said to to get rid and buy Toyotas as "he hardly sees them in his garage." I took his advice and have not had a problem.

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:36 am

As a counter-point to the leasing horror stories I recently handed back a car after a 3 year 30k mile lease, expecting a fairly substantial charge for amongst other stuff, the following:

- Bodged repair to front bumper, so the panel joins weren’t quite aligned
- Long, deep scratch in bonnet
- Broken air vent
- Cheapo tyres on front
- Scratches all over back windscreen from taking rubbish to the tip
- Scratches all over back of car from getting bike in and out

After the pick-up inspection he said I would be charged £60 for a scuffed alloy! I’d never noticed this but he pointed it out and there was a massive gouge taken out of one of the wheels.

I then got an email from the lease company a few days later waiving any charges and thanking me for taking such good care of the car! To be fair the day before I handed it back I had it fully valeted so it looked immaculate, which I think helped.

I will never buy another car again.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:53 am

Me.....car....see...like...buy.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:54 am

I prefer to buy. I buy 6 or 12 month old low mileage cars and keep them for 5 years or so. I like to own my cars outright. I'm not bothered about keeping up with the Joneses, be they friends, neighbours or business colleagues, because I don't give a stuff about what people think about my car. If someone is going to judge you on the car you drive, then they really aren't worth knowing. Anyway, each to their own.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:30 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Motor point make their money from the car finance or should i say the salesmen certainly do.

All mine bought outright no finance

CaptainKirk · Post by **CaptainKirk** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:46 am

Bloomin eck, just logged back on and saw all the replies.. many thanks.
Had a few shouts for Motorpoint here and in general so may well mosey down there.
We have had loads of Contract hire or Lease purchase over the years personally and work wise and that is what I like but she has this bee in her bonnet now about buying one.
I've told her to try looking beyond Ford as well but without much success so far.
Thanks again.

Pimlico_Claret · Post by **Pimlico_Claret** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:55 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Motor point make their money from the car finance or should i say the salesmen certainly do.

You have to be firm if you are a cash buyer at Motorpoint. Refuse every extra they try to sell you, e.g Gap insurance, finance, paint protection etc and you'll get a good deal.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:36 am

I bought my gap insurance online and saved more than a couple of quid. I think I shaved about £150 off the price.

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:13 pm

Surely beaming would be preferrable Capatain, or let her use the Shuttle Craft

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:46 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:Surely beaming would be preferrable Capatain, or let her use the Shuttle Craft

Careful of driving down Farm Tracks though or you will have to wash the Klingons off

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:47 pm

IndigoLake wrote:Why not just buy a Toyota? Can't get much more reliable than that (well, perhaps a Honda as mentioned by South West Claret).

I rated Toyota as well once IL but didn't they have a recall a few years back, steering was it or something else just as serious?

CaptainKirk · Post by **CaptainKirk** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:50 pm

Bosscat.....should I know you?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:57 pm

South West Claret. wrote:I rated Toyota as well once IL but didn't they have a recall a few years back, steering was it or something else just as serious?

Sudden acceleration was one of the recalls about 8 years ago I think.

Then they had a braking issue.

There's also been one with engines stalling.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:12 pm

South West Claret. wrote:I rated Toyota as well once IL but didn't they have a recall a few years back, steering was it or something else just as serious?

Not sure about that, SWC. I just know a few people who have Toyotas and they're all very happy with them. My Dad had his Prius for a good 10 years with no real problems. I have a mate who's a mechanic and he said they're as reliable as you can get so that'll do me

I'm thinking of getting a Toyota Auris hybrid in a few months.

Fretters · Post by **Fretters** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:27 pm

claret2018 wrote:As a counter-point to the leasing horror stories I recently handed back a car after a 3 year 30k mile lease, expecting a fairly substantial charge for amongst other stuff, the following:

- Bodged repair to front bumper, so the panel joins weren’t quite aligned
- Long, deep scratch in bonnet
- Broken air vent
- Cheapo tyres on front
- Scratches all over back windscreen from taking rubbish to the tip
- Scratches all over back of car from getting bike in and out

After the pick-up inspection he said I would be charged £60 for a scuffed alloy! I’d never noticed this but he pointed it out and there was a massive gouge taken out of one of the wheels.

I then got an email from the lease company a few days later waiving any charges and thanking me for taking such good care of the car! To be fair the day before I handed it back I had it fully valeted so it looked immaculate, which I think helped.

I will never buy another car again.

Which firm was that, if you don't mind me asking?

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:42 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:Bosscat.....should I know you?

Dunno Kirky depends if I owe you money or not

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:10 pm

IndigoLake wrote:Not sure about that, SWC. I just know a few people who have Toyotas and they're all very happy with them. My Dad had his Prius for a good 10 years with no real problems. I have a mate who's a mechanic and he said they're as reliable as you can get so that'll do me I'm thinking of getting a Toyota Auris hybrid in a few months.

Yes that’s fair enough isn’t it

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:15 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Sudden acceleration was one of the recalls about 8 years ago I think.

Then they had a braking issue.

There's also been one with engines stalling.

Thanks GIADJ thought there was some issue in the past.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:24 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Thanks GIADJ thought there was some issue in the past.

You'll be hard pressed to find a manufacturer that doesn't have an issue tbh.

Companies like BMW try their very best to not admitting there's a problem, even if it's potentially dangerous to life.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:38 pm

Caballo wrote:If she's adamant she wants a Focus, 1 litre turbo 125ps unless she's doing rocket ship miles,

Quite possibly the worst engine ever built.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:45 pm

Damo wrote:Quite possibly the worst engine ever built.

Bit heavy on the hyperbole there Damo, early ones had issues with heads but that got resolved. Admittedly it wouldn't be my choice but I suspect my motoring requirements might be somewhat different than the OP's daughter.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:59 pm

Damo wrote:Quite possibly the worst engine ever built.

Long way to go to match the aforementioned 1.6 diesel from Peugeot/Citroen.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:00 pm

So we are All agreed then, it’s a Reliant Robin then