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4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:05 pm
by tarkys_ears
Not blaming him for their goal exactly but, should he be returning the ball when it goes out? He threw it quickly straight back to a player which helped Spurs take their throw in quickly and get their goal.

Is there anything in the rules to say this shouldn't happen? I've never see a lino touching/returning the ball even when its a foot away from them. Should the 4th official be doing it?

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:07 pm
by MRG
Danny Rose looked to steal 10 yards also

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:10 pm
by elwaclaret
Don't think officials can be censored for getting the ball back into play too fast tbh. However, it was like something you'd expect to see in an intensive training session than a game. More annoying that the ball couldn't have been closer to the halfway line for no excuse for the officials missing the stolen 6 yards on the throw. Should have been brought back.

Still we won and if Spurs need goal difference I no longer mind that much.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:13 pm
by bfcjg
're the fourth official it was his Tottenham top I queried at the time.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:08 pm
by TheFamilyCat
elwaclaret wrote:Don't think officials can be censored for getting the ball back into play too fast tbh. However, it was like something you'd expect to see in an intensive training session than a game. More annoying that the ball couldn't have been closer to the halfway line for no excuse for the officials missing the stolen 6 yards on the throw. Should have been brought back.

Still we won and if Spurs need goal difference I no longer mind that much.


I reckon about 2% of throw ins are taken from the right place. It’s just rare that one from such a position leads so directly to a goal. Had it not done I doubt anyone would’ve been up in arms about it.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:30 pm
by wilks_bfc
Lowton always gains yards with our throw ins but nothing to that extent today

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:33 pm
by ElectroClaret
If he'd thrown it back quickly to us and we'd have scored, we'd be thanking him... ;)

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:37 pm
by ClaretTony
elwaclaret wrote:Don't think officials can be censored for getting the ball back into play too fast tbh


Oh yes they can, they are now allowed to do it, certainly assistant refs aren't.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:39 pm
by claretspice
They can be censored, and I'd fully expect Burnley to make a complaint. But the point about the stealing is not about the fact he stole yards per se -that's part of it, but the bigger point is that in doing so, he ran at full pelt past a Burnley player. Picking up a ball and gaining an advantage by running forwards with ball in hand is a different game, currently being played in Cardiff. It's not part of football and it should have been pulled back, and arguably even a foul throw.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:39 pm
by Zom Zom
There was an incident a few years ago when a Blackburn ball boy (or girl) quickly threw the ball back to a Liverpool player for a throw in, which they duly scored from.
The poor kid was castigated by Rovers fans for quite some time afterwards.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:49 pm
by elwaclaret
ClaretTony wrote:Oh yes they can, they are now allowed to do it, certainly assistant refs aren't.


I remember the Blackburn ballboy incident. Must admit the speed it came back at first I assumed it was one of the Spurs backroom that had thrown it to Rose.

I can fully understand what we used to call linesman being told not to do it, and I cannot recall where I have ever seen the linesmen fetch the ball.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:55 pm
by tim_noone
elwaclaret wrote:I remember the Blackburn ballboy incident. Must admit the speed it came back at first I assumed it was one of the Spurs backroom that had thrown it to Rose.

I can fully understand what we used to call linesman being told not to do it, and I cannot recall where I have ever seen the linesmen fetch the ball.

Ashington will enlighten us. But the lines person gave spurs an advantage today ...foul play. and a good job we won.....

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:13 pm
by turfytopper
Referees are not ball boys.... He was out of order.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:01 pm
by Duffer_
It just makes Pochettino's outrage at full time look really poorly judged and a bit silly. I generally think MP is a good manager and a decent enough fella but...a marginal call on a corner made in good faith, compared with an official playing enthusiastic ballboy and a throw-in taken 10 yards from where it should have been. Come on Poch, save your outrage for your dressing room.

UTC!

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:25 pm
by beddie
I don't think the 4th official should have, however, regardless of that we were very naive, almost school boy/girl like by not marking Kane, we all know you can't be offside from a thrown in.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:35 pm
by Rileybobs
claretspice wrote:They can be censored, and I'd fully expect Burnley to make a complaint. But the point about the stealing is not about the fact he stole yards per se -that's part of it, but the bigger point is that in doing so, he ran at full pelt past a Burnley player. Picking up a ball and gaining an advantage by running forwards with ball in hand is a different game, currently being played in Cardiff. It's not part of football and it should have been pulled back, and arguably even a foul throw.


Not to mention that his stealing of yards took him within throwing range of Kane. He basically kept running until he was close enough to be able to reach Kane with the throw.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:44 pm
by scouseclaret
I don’t know if there’s a rule on it, but I’m sure there is a convention. Many times I’ve seen the ball roll slowly past a linesman’s foot and wondered why he didn’t stop the ball so we could get on with the game. I’d always assumed the reason they don’t is to avoid exactly this sort of situation.

As regards stealing yards at throw-ins, yes, everybody does it, but normally there isn’t really any advantage to be gained. When a player gains such an obvious advantage you would certainly expect play to be stopped. The same ref sent the same players back twice today taking throw-ins from his own corner flag!

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:46 pm
by Ashingtonclaret46
I was surprised and annoyed to see the action of Craig Pawson in assisting their goal.
Whether refereeing, running the line or acting as 4th official it is against protocol to touch the ball because it could be construed as being helpful to one side or the other, as proved to be the case today. Craig Pawson did not need to react in the way that he did, he should have just left the ball on the ground for Rose to pick up and progress the game from their. There is no doubt that his action today, along with Rose pinching several yards, certainly helped Kane to score his goal.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:48 pm
by Tribesmen
lets not get too upset as i look at the score line 2-1 Clarets

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:50 pm
by Rileybobs
I wasn't aware that the ball was played to Rose by the 4th official but that is extremely poor form.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:57 pm
by South West Claret.
ClaretTony wrote:Oh yes they can, they are now allowed to do it, certainly assistant refs aren't.


In that case MD was wrong on two counts, think I might have to go back and change his marks.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:03 pm
by tiger76
No surprise it was Pawson,i'm not aware of a written rule,but i always thought the officials left the players,managers,ball boys/girls,to deal with returning the ball to the thrower.

As it transpired we won so it won't be a major issue,be interesting if Dermot Gallagher is asked his opinion,it should be clarified as if this situation happened in say a cup final,there would be uproar quite rightly.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:03 pm
by IanMcL
The officials are not supposed to influence the match, by recycling the ball. They are supposed to influence the match, when a player runs, in an uninterrupted burst of speed, several yards down the touchline, so he is close enough to reach his team mate.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:42 pm
by nil_desperandum
Interesting to see if his error of judgement will have any influence on his performance at Newcastle on Tuesday. Hopefully he won't want to cross Dyche twice in one week!!

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:36 pm
by wilks_bfc
Not even mentioned on MOTD

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:39 pm
by joey13
He’s not ref Tuesday, he’s just a ball boy again

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:46 pm
by jdrobbo
The most important fact in all of this is that it was clearly a foul throw: Rose’s left foot is not on the ground when he throws the ball into play. It’s a foul throw!

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:55 pm
by Hozz
Didn’t Chris Eagles do something similar for Kev McDonald to score v Arsenal in the league cup?

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:01 pm
by tim_noone
Hozz wrote:Didn’t Chris Eagles do something similar for Kev McDonald to score v Arsenal in the league cup?

I didnt realise Eagles was a linesman?

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:29 am
by NRC
And how does this incident NOT merit at least equa attention as to the corner incident? At least in the former it was almost impossible for the officials to judge who may have marginally touched it last, and we’re told advantage to the attacking team, are we not, Whereas in the throw-in case there was clear advantage gained through the action of the 4th official as well as several yards clearly stolen.

This is where the club needs to do a better job of balancing out media

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:39 am
by Foreverly Claret
Not mentioned at all on Match of the Day ...whereas the corner was viewed from every angle

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:53 am
by TheFamilyCat
Foreverly Claret wrote:Not mentioned at all on Match of the Day ...whereas the corner was viewed from every angle


And i’m still not convinced it wasn’t a goal kick. I couldn’t tell whether the ball was still in play when it touched Hendrick.

Either way the decision was hardly an absolute howler like some you see.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:57 am
by RalphCoatesComb
wilks_bfc wrote:Not even mentioned on MOTD


What a surprise!

Would VAR have disallowed the goal for Pawson's action and yard stealing?

More importantly, would VAR have overruled OUR first goal for a corner that wasn't?

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:06 am
by RalphCoatesComb
Foreverly Claret wrote:Not mentioned at all on Match of the Day ...whereas the corner was viewed from every angle


This is the real problem.

10 - 20 - 30 years ago, some would have had a moan and got on with it. Now, the myriad of cameras make the job of the Officials impossible.

As shown on MOTD, Mike Dean could not make a decision re the corner from his position and relied on the linesman. The linesman made a decision on what he saw. Potchy, with his x-ray vision, knew the truth and lost his cool for which he will be fined (and rightly so).

As for ballboy Pawson and the throw-in. He got that wrong and I'm guessing the 4th Officials will be instructed not to do it again. (and rightly so). 95% of the time, his action would not have led to a goal. Sod's law says it had to in this case!

We won (and rightly so). Move on.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:13 am
by wilks_bfc
RalphCoatesComb wrote:What a surprise!

Would VAR have disallowed the goal for Pawson's action and yard stealing?

More importantly, would VAR have overruled OUR first goal for a corner that wasn't?


Isn’t VAR to be used to overrule “clear & obvious” errors?

If so then the corner was neither clear or obvious whereas the thrown couldn’t have been more blatant

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:15 am
by Spike
scouseclaret wrote:I don’t know if there’s a rule on it, but I’m sure there is a convention. Many times I’ve seen the ball roll slowly past a linesman’s foot and wondered why he didn’t stop the ball so we could get on with the game. I’d always assumed the reason they don’t is to avoid exactly this sort of situation.

As regards stealing yards at throw-ins, yes, everybody does it, but normally there isn’t really any advantage to be gained. When a player gains such an obvious advantage you would certainly expect play to be stopped. The same ref sent the same players back twice today taking throw-ins from his own corner flag!


Fourth officials generally steal a living today he stole a goal.

The extra yards Rose stole were the same yards advantage that Kane gained!

Shocking from the officials but Justice was done

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:30 am
by SussexDon1inIreland
Sean Dyche brought it up in his post match interview on Clarets Player
He was rightly annoyed about the gain of yardage which was done right in front of the 4th official without him doing anything
I thought Rose was cheating all afternoon
Good job we won - justice

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:35 am
by taio
Pretty much every single player takes a throw in several yards further forward than where the ball went out. So probably not something to get too upset about. But the involvement of the fourth official was key, wrong and I guess Dyche's main gripe.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:17 am
by claret wizard
VAR would not be used for corners. As play had stopped and then restarted then they couldn’t go back to look after we scored the goal. I’m not sure about the Spurs goal. As there was no break in play then it could be reviewed, but would they for a throw being taken from the wrong position.

Re: 4th Official and the ball

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:26 am
by JohnMac
I just can't wrap my head around why stealing ground on throw ins is seen as acceptable.

Every game we see CHEATING from both sides and Officials doing very little about it. You get pulled up for being an inch offside yet can gain 10 yards advantage on a throw in. It isn't difficult to manage but globally it is ignored.

Mind boggling! :x