Bolton

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:58 am

Bolton being unable to fulfil their fixtures would likely end Middlesborough's playoff challenge because they would lose 6 points while Derby would only lose 3 and Brizzle would lose 4.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:28 am

Match abandoned today (obvious bump because no drugs)

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:36 am

At this stage in the season, either the PFA or someone would pay the wages to see the season out.
If a whole seasons results are erased with just 2 games to go it would have impact on so many clubs, not only the example above, but I believe Sheff Utd would lose more points than Leeds. That could cost Sheffield a place in the premier and the £130m or so which comes with it.
Could get very messy in court if these 2 games aren't played.

Shappie · Post by **Shappie** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:48 am

tim_noone wrote:Easter 1988 was pretty Eventful

As was the FA Cup game November 1987!

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:50 am

Because there are only a couple of games left. I’d think they just award the future opponents wins. I don’t know if affect the goals scored tally though?

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:55 am

Agree just give Brentford and Nottingham Forest 3 points and neither of those 2 clubs would be affected
Not sure if Harvey at the EFL has the brains to work that out

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:18 am

If they cant fulfil their fixtures they’ll be kicked out of the league surely. Has echoes of Accrington Stanley in the 60s going bust.

ClaretJimmy · Post by **ClaretJimmy** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:20 am

Vegas Claret wrote:I believe him......
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... s-on-wages

He comes across as a clueless fraud filling the Bolton fans with false hope

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:22 am

Gartside knew the game was up for Bolton years ago when he tried to put forward a motion that would ensure no promotion or relegation from the Premier League, so securing guaranteed future income. Thankfully it was dismissed out of hand.

As for their fans, f@(£ 'em, too many were boastful and took the p!ss out of little old Burnley in the early months of 2010 for me to give a shiny $h!t about them

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:30 am

I can’t work out how he’s got any money or any chance of approval.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:33 am

Was it Aldershot who were the last club not to be able to fulfill their fixtures when we won the old 4th Division Championship? They had all their results expunged for the season didn't they? (and cost Burnley 6 points in the process?)

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:01 am

Barry_Chuckle wrote:At this stage in the season, either the PFA or someone would pay the wages to see the season out.
If a whole seasons results are erased with just 2 games to go it would have impact on so many clubs, not only the example above, but I believe Sheff Utd would lose more points than Leeds. That could cost Sheffield a place in the premier and the £130m or so which comes with it.
Could get very messy in court if these 2 games aren't played.

PFA have already stepped in once to help, why should they keep doing it?

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:12 am

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:Was it Aldershot who were the last club not to be able to fulfill their fixtures when we won the old 4th Division Championship? They had all their results expunged for the season didn't they? (and cost Burnley 6 points in the process?)

It was.
Not sure what the league would look like if their record was expunged-any geeks able to help?

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:33 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:PFA have already stepped in once to help, why should they keep doing it?

I said "would" not "Should".

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:42 am

The top 5 have all taken 6 points.

won 8.
WBA
Reading
Birmingham..twice
Derby
Rotherham
Millwall
QPR

Drawn 8
Reading
Stoke
Millwall
Wigan
Rotherham
Ipswich
PNE
Bristol City

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:59 am

Barry_Chuckle wrote:I believe Sheff Utd would lose more points than Leeds. That could cost Sheffield a place in the premier and the £130m or so which comes with it.
Could get very messy in court if these 2 games aren't played.

You believe wrongly.

In any case, competitions have rules and those are agreed beforehand. If the club ceases to exist, expulsion and negation of all previous results is how it works so I've no idea how it would end up in court.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:09 am

DAVETHEVICAR wrote:Not sure if Harvey at the EFL has the brains to work that out

The only thing Harvey has been capable of is taking two clubs into administration. How on earth he got a job at the league on the back of that is anyone's guess.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:10 am

exilecanada wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but I have a question: If the Bolton players don’t complete the season, why would the previous opponents be deducted the points? In my mind that makes no sense, those games are ‘done and dusted’, so to speak. To award the 2 remaining opponents a 3-0 win and 3 points apiece makes sense.

As a footnote: This debacle really highlights the discrepancy between the ‘haves and have nots’ in today footy. Bolton are a storied club, such a shame they may be dissolved…………….Judas jumping ship not withstanding. Citeh, their not too far away neighbor, were dug out from the dirt by ‘nodding donkeys’, many things are amiss with todays game!

The last time a club actually pulled out before the end of the season was in 1991/92 with Aldershot. Rightly, their record was removed which cost us six points having beaten them twice. This is a different scenario though, no idea what they will do should these games not be played.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:14 am

These are Bolton's results. The only real change that affects anything important is the race for 6th place. Derby lose 3 points, Brizzle lose 4 but Boro lose 6.

Currently Derby and Boro are on the same points and Bristol are 1 behind. (or i could just screenshot the table, duh!)

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:18 am

EFL Board have demanded the games be played. Given their opponents and they gave nothing to play for, that's got to be the right decision. Doesn't matter who plays for Bolton as long as the games get played.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:18 am

I don't see how the players action helps the club or themselves. Fulfilling the fixtures would give them the best chance of being paid in the long run.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:19 am

thatdberight wrote:EFL Board have demanded the games be played. Given their opponents and they gave nothing to play for, that's got to be the right decision. Doesn't matter who plays for Bolton as long as the games get played.

Well, that's boring.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:23 am

It's a shame that what's happening to Bolton didn't happen to clubs such as Ipswich and Leicester city.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:24 am

At least we now have clarification, the two outstanding games will be played.

Today's game would have gone ahead had Bolton's U18's not played on Thursday night. That youth team would have represented the club but for obvious duty of care issues of having played two days earlier.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:27 am

Pawel Olkoswki has become the first member of the squad to officially hand in his notice and signal his intent to quit over pay problems

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:30 am

Royboyclaret wrote:Today's game would have gone ahead had Bolton's U18's not played on Thursday night

Was a lunchtime kick off on Thursday.

But is that the best the league can come up with? What a joke organisation they are.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:48 am

ClaretTony wrote:Was a lunchtime kick off on Thursday.

But is that the best the league can come up with? What a joke organisation they are.

No matter, the EFL would have forced Bolton to play today's fixture had their U18's not been involved in a match on Thursday, bringing concerns about potential player welfare issues.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:50 am

Royboyclaret wrote:No matter, the EFL would have forced Bolton to play today's fixture had their U18's not been involved in a match on Thursday, bringing concerns about potential player welfare issues.

Interesting whether they can force non-professionals to play in these games. The Football League has become a joke organisation which hopefully will improve once Harvey has gone. They may well play the games with the youth team but they cannot force that situation. No mention of that last night, suddenly appears today. Harvey makes it up as he goes along.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:55 am

Seems pointless and a big waste of money and police resources playing 2 games that none of the teams want to play and in which the results are a foregone conclusion.
Why not just have done with it and award 2 or 3 nil victories to their opponents. It will have no bearing on promotion or relegation.
I wonder what odds the bookies will be offering on Bolton getting anything from either of these games?

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:00 am

If games that are foregone conclusions arent played half of Man City's and Liverpool's would be called off.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:01 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Seems pointless and a big waste of money and police resources playing 2 games that none of the teams want to play and in which the results are a foregone conclusion.
Why not just have done with it and award 2 or 3 nil victories to their opponents. It will have no bearing on promotion or relegation.
I wonder what odds the bookies will be offering on Bolton getting anything from either of these games?

And this is the same league who opted not to force Blackpool to play their last game of the season four years ago against Huddersfield. They instead decided to declare it as a 0-0 draw.

bob-the-scutter · Post by **bob-the-scutter** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:07 am

ClaretJimmy wrote:He comes across as a clueless fraud filling the Bolton fans with false hope

And scruffy, I've seen better dressed tramps!

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:08 am

Shambles. The grim reality of living beyond your means personified.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:13 am

ClaretTony wrote:Was a lunchtime kick off on Thursday. But is that the best the league can come up with? What a joke organisation they are.

What else can the League do? They can’t make the players play, the only thing they can do is insist that the match is played... and if it’s not, then it’s they forfeit the result, accept a points deductions, or get eliminated and so on.

Would all u18 and development players be registered?

1HappyClaret · Post by **1HappyClaret** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:22 am

Seems that the deal is now off as now money has not been made available. Once a crook always a crook. Not good news for Bolton. Admin at best next season and start with at least -12 if they manage to get that far.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:26 am

Does the 25man squad only apply in PL?

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:45 am

Apparently it was Bassini’s who was supposed to be paying players this month.... what a mess

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/april/club-statement3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:48 am

You would have to be desperate to even want Bassini near your club

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:50 am

ClaretTony wrote:Interesting whether they can force non-professionals to play in these games. The Football League has become a joke organisation which hopefully will improve once Harvey has gone. They may well play the games with the youth team but they cannot force that situation. No mention of that last night, suddenly appears today. Harvey makes it up as he goes along.

The U18s playing (and why they could not play) was being discussed on Sky at tea-time last night.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:01 pm

ClaretJimmy wrote:He comes across as a clueless fraud filling the Bolton fans with false hope

Because that's exactly what he is! He's a fantasist and a charlatan with basically no money and a huge ego and if he can pass the fit and proper persons test then so could Robert Maxwell.....mmm!

bob-the-scutter · Post by **bob-the-scutter** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:06 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Because that's exactly what he is! He's a fantasist and a charlatan with basically no money and a huge ego and if he can pass the fit and proper persons test then so could Robert Maxwell.....mmm!

Shades of Michael knighton.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:11 pm

thatdberight wrote:The U18s playing (and why they could not play) was being discussed on Sky at tea-time last night.

They have been not been paid either so it would be a breach of employment law for the league to effectively force them to cross picket lines

Edit https://twitter.com/MarcIles/status/1122071905891168257" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:12 pm

bob-the-scutter wrote:Shades of Michael knighton.

Indeed! In fact the list is pretty much endless, but Maxwell was the biggest crook I could think of quickly of off the top of my head. These SISU guys at Coventry seem a load of shady characters tbh. I suspect that the bottom line there is that they haven't really got much of a pot to p in!!!

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:17 pm

While all this was going on at Bolton yesterday the EFL were celebrating World Intellectual Property day

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8378518528" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:24 pm

Chester Perry wrote:They have been not been paid either so it would be a breach of employment law for the league to effectively force them to cross picket lines

Edit https://twitter.com/MarcIles/status/1122071905891168257" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which once again shows how clueless the league is now - surely it will improve once the buffoon Harvey is gone.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:33 pm

Chester Perry wrote:They have been not been paid either so it would be a breach of employment law for the league to effectively force them to cross picket lines

Edit https://twitter.com/MarcIles/status/1122071905891168257" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where are you getting that they haven't been paid?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:51 pm

Chester Perry wrote:They have been not been paid either so it would be a breach of employment law for the league to effectively force them to cross picket lines

Edit https://twitter.com/MarcIles/status/1122071905891168257" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cross picket lines !?...........Surely this is damage limitation time now for Bolton, they're already on a misconduct charge with the League which will cost them several points at the start of next season. They now need to ensure they fulfil these two fixtures no matter what kind of side they are able to put out.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:56 pm

Roy those kids have been receiving handouts from the senior players to eat and travel to work - why would they go against them

remember the owner is refusing to pay wages but did not refuse to pay his and his own families "consultancy" fees

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8381171713" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:07 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Cross picket lines !?...........Surely this is damage limitation time now for Bolton, they're already on a misconduct charge with the League which will cost them several points at the start of next season. They now need to ensure they fulfil these two fixtures no matter what kind of side they are able to put out.

There are no picket lines to cross, the tweet referenced doesn't say the U-18s haven't been paid and in an industrial dispute, there's nothing illegal about the employer asking other employees to cover the work to be done or the employees doing so.

You'd need an employment lawyer, and quite probably one whose speciality is English football to work out what precise action the senior players at Bolton have taken, what the role of their union is in this (because that might impact the ability of other union members to step in for them) and what Bolton can do. That would then determine who could play for them.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:09 pm

The whole situation is a shambolic mess, very little to choose between Anderson and Bassini. But reading the club statement they were pinning their hopes on Bassini inputting sufficient funds into the club which in itself smacks of pure desperation.

However, saying all that, I think they need to move heaven and earth to ensure these two fixtures are played, otherwise the sanctions will then be colossal.