Re: Bolton
Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:36 pm
Thought the recent posts would be about Bolton Wanderers / Ken Anderson / administration/ points deducted/ embargoes and how to badly manage a football club.
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37061
Reminds me of this story:GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Which bog are we flushing them down then?
Thankfully "we" (on this forum) don't make that decision...Lancasterclaret wrote:The last line is the problem for me though
At what stage do we go "right, thats too much of a risk"?
Jesus, that would be a terrible thought if we did!keith1879 wrote:Thankfully "we" (on this forum) don't make that decision...
This.andyh wrote: What I learned is that Sean can see stuff I can’t. .
Spot on Lancaster and thankfully a decision for Garlic, Kilby, Dyche, Rigg et al and not me as I definitely don't really know the answer. Meanwhile, I can simply concentrate on the really important stuff, like enjoying a few real ales whilst they make up their minds.Lancasterclaret wrote:The last line is the problem for me though
At what stage do we go "right, thats too much of a risk"?
Totally disagree. We haven't got away with anything as we fully deserve to stay up. Once Heaton regained his place in goal it's been clear that our squad is far too good to go down with the form tables saying as much, and our current form is actually good enough to be fighting for a Europa league place.Dark Cloud wrote:I do think the reality is that we will drop back down at some stage. After all I'm sure Bolton, Rovers, Sheff Wednesday and others going back a few years and then more latterly Swansea, Stoke, West Brom, Villa etc all thought they were totally secure and planned accordingly, but were very, very wrong and they are arguably bigger clubs than us. We have to be realistic and Bolton is a wonderful model of how NOT to approach Premier League football unless you're one of the big 4/5. Eye catching, marquee signings using next year's TV money (or borrowed money) are all well and good for those top, top clubs, but anybody else only needs one or two to go wrong and suddenly you're in the poo. I am firmly in the camp that believes we actually didn't spend enough last summer and that this season we've got away with it, just. So we do need to SENSIBLY invest rather more this window, but we still have to walk that very narrow tight rope. Plus, we as fans have to be aware that the more we earn as a club in the Premier League, the more things tend to cost. Players cost more in fees and wages and just being in the PL brings its own costs e.g. £12 million? for disabled facilities and so on. We have to target players who will fit in with us, money wise and playing wise, but I think if we don't accept that we will need to spend rather more we'll be dropping down sooner rather than later.
I definitely get what you're saying and like a lot of people I can't seem to make up my mind about this season. It was clearly a season of two halves! Up to and including Boxing Day was absolute rubbish (MOSTLY - but I was at Spurs away and we played much more like Burnley and lost very narrowly, and we did beat Brighton and Bournemouth fairly comfortably, so it wasn't all total pants) and since Boxing Day, fantastic form and excellent results (MOSTLY - but Leicester home was poor, Newcastle away was poor, Everton last week wasn't great and there were some others, so not all brilliant) Which half of the season truly reflects us? I don't know. BUT I fear if we have an Autumn like last season and are in the bottom 3 and looking good to drop at Christmas again, you can't bank on another amazing turnaround and suddenly finding Europa league form from basically nowhere. The point is we do need to strengthen in certain areas, but as always for us, we need to strengthen within the confines of what we can realistically spend and afford. Not easy!Spijed wrote:Totally disagree. We haven't got away with anything as we fully deserve to stay up. Once Heaton regained his place in goal it's been clear that our squad is far too good to go down with the form tables saying as much, and our current form is actually good enough to be fighting for a Europa league place.
Because of the way we have done things to date we are arguably the most successful club anywhere in football when you look at our budget compared to what we have achieved, and it works very well for us. We are not going to win the league but we've manged to play in Europe, all on a shoestring in comparison to all those other clubs fighting for 7th place.
It's a great achievement when you look at teams like Cardiff and Huddersfield who simply haven't been able to compete at this level, yet we have survived with plenty to spare this season, despite the daunting last few fixtures.
At least he has now said, allbeit far too late, something that makes sense and what appears to be a meaningful apology.Chester Perry wrote:So they cannot even get going into Admin organised and agreed - Anderson and the Davis Family file for Admin separately
https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/may/club-statement3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And your last point is the reason why Leicester city were able to keep their brand new ground, whilst local businesses went bust. They built the ground knowing full well they couldn't pay for it.dsr wrote:There are three things that the League should do, and should have done years ago, to help stop this sort of situation developing.
1. Ban insolvent clubs from signing players apart from free transfers on a notional "minimum wage". This would stop owners like Davies leading Bolton right into Dickie's meadow. Owners could give money to the clubs by way of share capital, like Venky's do, but they couldn't lend it.
2. Set the rules somehow that ensures that money owed to owners, and other moneys put it purely to pay running costs, are unsecured and rank below all other debts when it comes to insolvency. (There may be legal difficulties with this one.)
3. Bring back the old rule that said (way back when) that a club that doesn't pay all its debts - not just football debts, but all debts - is chucked out of the league. None of this administration fraud on the smaller creditors. A rule that says Man United must be paid in full and they must take the money off Joe the pie seller to pay them, is outrageous.
The question is obviously what that financial profit needs to be. If we'd made a profit of £20m (before tax) would that have been sufficient, or maybe £30m?Darnhill Claret wrote:It’s too much of a financial risk when we operate over and above our means. We have to ensure a financial trading profit season on season or it will be like a snowball rolling down Mt Everest. We have to bring players through and find value for money new recruits. Players that will accept our wage structure. Players that want to play for Sean Dyche and Burnley FC. Dyche is steadily building his reputation and that in turn builds our club’s reputation, in the here and now.
I believe we take the sensible approach - we budget each season as if we will finish 19th or 20th (17th at best), players and coaching staff share the upswing with bonuses.aggi wrote:The question is obviously what that financial profit needs to be. If we'd made a profit of £20m (before tax) would that have been sufficient, or maybe £30m?
I don't think many people are saying that we should be making losses, the question is whether the current level of profit is required.
No We had to destroy it when we were building the new corner stands as it was stopping us being able to put the foundations in. Please keep up.NRC wrote:"just like there are Burnley fans who think we have a huge dry powder store."
we don't?
It may be confusing to some to say that we pay " amortisation costs " , strictly speaking, we don't . They are an accounting measure, designed to reduce the value of ( or write off ) a player or assets to the Club over the period of it's useful life...Chester Perry wrote:I believe we take the sensible approach - we budget each season as if we will finish 19th or 20th (17th at best), players and coaching staff share the upswing with bonuses.
As the years of staying in the League mount are biggest problems will be:
Wages - established Premier League players will want wages closer to the mean (even the mean of the 14 is not really within our grasp)
Amortisation - The more players we buy (and the higher the prices we pay) the more we pay in Amortisation - if we spend £40m this summer for players on 4 year contracts that is £10m a year amortisation - which you may think is ok, but that would take us close to £40m a year in Amortisation costs - add that to wages and we have eaten up all the PL earnings (and some)
Infrastructure - not including depreciation
In this I will include the Academy (we now know they intend to go Cat 1 in 2020) Staffing for the Academy will outgrow the space it has and will need additional space that will need to be developed.
There is a push from fans to redevelop the ground and all evidence points to a new Cricket Field stand likely to cost well north of £70m. Merely upgrading facilities in the way we have so far on the Turf has seen us spend around £5m a year
All that requires maintenance - I would imagine our pitches alone have £1m+ a year spent on them
Hopefully followed by liquidationVegas Claret wrote:finally gone into administration
Vegas Claret wrote:finally gone into administration
yep yet another crazy decisionChester Perry wrote:If they would have done this in March - they would now be under new ownership and ready to start next season on 0 points rather than the minis 12+ they will do
They just want to join the all 4 division titles clubclaret wizard wrote:They need someone to come along and take this on yet. They've 8 contracted players, an administrator to be appointed, all their money making assists gone and a minimum 12 pt fine and potentially a 20 pt one. League 2 beckons.
They'll be playing Chorley soon at this rate,great news for the other League 1 clubs,including Accy,that's one relegation place sealed.claret wizard wrote:They need someone to come along and take this on yet. They've 8 contracted players, an administrator to be appointed, all their money making assists gone and a minimum 12 pt fine and potentially a 20 pt one. League 2 beckons.
That’s going to be difficult from where they currently sit. Can’t see them winning the Premier League anytime soon. Having never won the First Division!!bfcmik wrote:They just want to join the all 4 division titles club
I just assumed that a club of their stature must have done so at some time. Just goes to show that having a ?big? club reputation is definitely not based on being successful.RammyClaret61 wrote:That’s going to be difficult from where they currently sit. Can’t see them winning the Premier League anytime soon. Having never won the First Division!!
summitclaret wrote:How far away ( from us ) are they?
Fun fact:bob-the-scutter wrote:24.6 miles
ecc wrote:BWFC have set up a food bank for the staff.
Given the huge money in foorball today this is beyond scandalous.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17 ... aid-staff/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bloody hell!!!!AlargeClaret wrote:God almighty ! I seriously thought this was a joke absolutely beyond belief
ecc wrote:BWFC have set up a food bank for the staff.
Given the huge money in foorball today this is beyond scandalous.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17 ... aid-staff/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A couple of observations :-Chester Perry wrote:Martin Ziegler points to the issue many are wanting to see - the accounts and how much Ken took out of the club in 2017/18 (never mind this year
https://twitter.com/martynziegler/statu ... 9655734272" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just when you thought Horwich Wanderers were just a joke.ecc wrote:BWFC have set up a food bank for the staff.
Given the huge money in football today this is beyond scandalous.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17 ... aid-staff/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nine months after the year end, so 31 March in this case.ecc wrote:Isn't there an obligation to file the accounts by a certain date?
Sheffield Wednesday, Bury and Notts County in the same positionaggi wrote:Nine months after the year end, so 31 March in this case.