Calculating ground capacity

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
Quickenthetempo
Posts: 17919
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 3843 times
Has Liked: 2065 times

Calculating ground capacity

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:38 am

Have you ever wondered how they did it in the old days with terraces?
Here's an old picture showing it.
Officials calculate crowd capacity at Bern’s Wankdorf Stadium ahead of the 1954 World Cup.

Image

Tricky Trevor
Posts: 8322
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:06 pm
Been Liked: 2439 times
Has Liked: 1978 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:43 am

How much will ours go up by when the corners are completed?

claretblue
Posts: 6410
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:36 pm
Been Liked: 1831 times
Has Liked: 961 times
Location: cloud 9 since Dyche appointed

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by claretblue » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:44 am

I've seen less on the Turf in the old 4th division! :?
These 3 users liked this post: Quickenthetempo Leisure turfytopper

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 17919
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 3843 times
Has Liked: 2065 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:47 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:How much will ours go up by when the corners are completed?
I don't know as the disabled fans must be counted in the attendance now?

It will only go up if the JM Lower gets converted back.

Goobs
Posts: 4386
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:43 am
Been Liked: 1459 times
Has Liked: 992 times
Location: Burnley

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Goobs » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:55 am

claretblue wrote:I've seen less on the Turf in the old 4th division! :?
Yet strangely every man and his dog claims to have been on most of the games :lol:

MarkGreen
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:30 pm
Been Liked: 479 times
Has Liked: 136 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by MarkGreen » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:56 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:I don't know as the disabled fans must be counted in the attendance now?

It will only go up if the JM Lower gets converted back.
The plans suggest the disabled platform will remain.

Image
This user liked this post: Goobs

keith1879
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:28 pm
Been Liked: 262 times
Has Liked: 363 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by keith1879 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:37 pm

Goobs wrote:Yet strangely every man and his dog claims to have been on most of the games :lol:
The dog was on several matches but I can assure you that every man stayed away.

ClaretTony
Posts: 67429
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32242 times
Has Liked: 5255 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:38 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I don't know as the disabled fans must be counted in the attendance now?

It will only go up if the JM Lower gets converted back.
It will go up because there are extra disabled places in the ground.

Bfc
Posts: 1049
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:28 am
Been Liked: 443 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Bfc » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:05 pm

The man on the right has a look of staff member Anthony Fairclough.

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1100 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by bfcmik » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:56 pm

Don't know how accurate the artist impression is but it shows 45 disabled people in the new stand. Assuming the other holds as many that would be 90 in total but I'm sure the control room is going to take up 1 floor of the new BL/JM corner stand so it will be fewer than that.

ClaretShaun
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:37 am
Been Liked: 26 times
Has Liked: 7 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by ClaretShaun » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:02 pm

bfcmik wrote:Don't know how accurate the artist impression is but it shows 45 disabled people in the new stand. Assuming the other holds as many that would be 90 in total but I'm sure the control room is going to take up 1 floor of the new BL/JM corner stand so it will be fewer than that.
The one just going up now is quite a bit smaller.

It’s a full tier smaller and, as you say, has a control room too.

Not as tall as the one up now.

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:11 pm

ClaretShaun wrote:
The one just going up now is quite a bit smaller.

It’s a full tier smaller and, as you say, has a control room too.

Not as tall as the one up now.
The North East corner (Longside/Jimmy Mac) will hold 45. The South East corner (Bob Lord/Jimmy Mac) will hold 30.

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1100 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by bfcmik » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:18 pm

ClaretShaun wrote:The one just going up now is quite a bit smaller.

It’s a full tier smaller and, as you say, has a control room too.

Not as tall as the one up now.
The rounded steel for the top looks to be the same height as the other corner.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Spijed » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:21 pm

MarkGreen wrote:The plans suggest the disabled platform will remain.

Image
I cant see how all the original positions remain if one of the complaints was that disabled supporters were too exposed to bad weather, and a poor view in addition.

As they say, that might just be an artists impression as the drawing of the other corner shows disabled supporters sitting in front of the Bob Lord Stand (another part of the ground where they are too exposed to the weather).

Steve1956
Posts: 17178
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
Been Liked: 6463 times
Has Liked: 2896 times
Location: Fife

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Steve1956 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:21 pm

bfcmik wrote:Don't know how accurate the artist impression is but it shows 45 disabled people in the new stand. Assuming the other holds as many that would be 90 in total but I'm sure the control room is going to take up 1 floor of the new BL/JM corner stand so it will be fewer than that.
:lol: I can't believe you counted those white dots and come up with 45! :lol:
This user liked this post: bfcmik

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1100 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by bfcmik » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:26 pm

Steve1956 wrote::lol: I can't believe you counted those white dots and come up with 45! :lol:
Highlight of my day :ugeek: Retirement is a one long catalogue of exciting stuff :shock:

Tricky Trevor
Posts: 8322
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:06 pm
Been Liked: 2439 times
Has Liked: 1978 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:30 pm

If the figures given above are “disabled” do they then each have a “minder”?
Sorry about terminology but I don’t know what is current.

Steve1956
Posts: 17178
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
Been Liked: 6463 times
Has Liked: 2896 times
Location: Fife

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Steve1956 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:30 pm

bfcmik wrote:Highlight of my day :ugeek: Retirement is a one long catalogue of exciting stuff :shock:
:lol:

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:39 pm

Steve1956 wrote::lol: I can't believe you counted those white dots and come up with 45! :lol:
He’s correct though, there will be 45 disabled spaces in that new corner.

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:52 pm

Spijed wrote:I cant see how all the original positions remain if one of the complaints was that disabled supporters were too exposed to bad weather, and a poor view in addition.

As they say, that might just be an artists impression as the drawing of the other corner shows disabled supporters sitting in front of the Bob Lord Stand (another part of the ground where they are too exposed to the weather).
25% of disabled spaces under the new Accessible Stadia guide can be pitch side. When we have finished we will have 31% pitch side and we will be close to compliant with the numbers.

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:54 pm

The funny thing is with this, all clubs have different demand on spaces. I’m pretty sure that I read Watford, for example, would be creating space for twice as many people that have ever demanded tickets at Vicarage Road.

I don’t know what the demand is at Turf Moor, but we are going from 47 to 141, so almost 100 more.

Steve1956
Posts: 17178
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
Been Liked: 6463 times
Has Liked: 2896 times
Location: Fife

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Steve1956 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:59 pm

Claretforever wrote:He’s correct though, there will be 45 disabled spaces in that new corner.
47 I get.....two are in the toilet.

Steve1956
Posts: 17178
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
Been Liked: 6463 times
Has Liked: 2896 times
Location: Fife

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Steve1956 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:01 pm

I can't believe I've just counted the white dots :roll: :lol:

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Spijed » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:04 pm

Claretforever wrote:25% of disabled spaces under the new Accessible Stadia guide can be pitch side. When we have finished we will have 31% pitch side and we will be close to compliant with the numbers.
I thought people were complaining the pitch sides ones were in a bad spot because of the weather?

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:10 pm

Spijed wrote:I thought people were complaining the pitch sides ones were in a bad spot because of the weather?
We are creating 75 spaces in the new stands when we currently have 47. 75 is probably enough and they’ll all fit in there anyway, but the current ones are staying and are being extended. We are extending the spaces available in front of the Bob Lord.

ClaretShaun
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:37 am
Been Liked: 26 times
Has Liked: 7 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by ClaretShaun » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:38 pm

bfcmik wrote:The rounded steel for the top looks to be the same height as the other corner.
Might look it (doesn’t to me), however, it’s definitely one level shorter.

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/new ... ia-update/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1100 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by bfcmik » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:25 pm

ClaretShaun wrote:Might look it (doesn’t to me), however, it’s definitely one level shorter.

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/new ... ia-update/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3 viewing levels and a base. Same as the other side.

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:37 pm

bfcmik wrote:3 viewing levels and a base. Same as the other side.
I’ve added a yellow line from the top of the South East Corner (Bob Lord) across to the other corner.

Image

ClaretShaun
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:37 am
Been Liked: 26 times
Has Liked: 7 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by ClaretShaun » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:00 pm

bfcmik wrote:3 viewing levels and a base. Same as the other side.
The roof of the latest one is level with the bottom of the top level on the ones that’s up.

So then one that’s up is a full level higher.

ClaretShaun
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:37 am
Been Liked: 26 times
Has Liked: 7 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by ClaretShaun » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:02 pm

So the capacity will increase by 75.... or do the 75 have a +1 too?

Not that any of this matters

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1100 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by bfcmik » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:47 pm

Claretforever wrote:I’ve added a yellow line from the top of the South East Corner (Bob Lord) across to the other corner.

Image
We are both right - The unbuilt stand is indeed lower, as you say, but it also still has 3 viewing levels. They are rather more compressed than the one between the JM and the JH stands. I suspect it is designed to be level with the Bob Lord roof

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:57 pm

bfcmik wrote:We are both right - The unbuilt stand is indeed lower, as you say, but it also still has 3 viewing levels. They are rather more compressed than the one between the JM and the JH stands. I suspect it is designed to be level with the Bob Lord roof
The detailed designs show that the North West Corner has a ground floor, first floor, second floor, third floor and roof. The South West Corner designs show a ground floor, first floor, second floor and roof.

houseboy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
Been Liked: 2238 times
Has Liked: 1617 times
Location: Baxenden

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by houseboy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:52 pm

How did we go from calculating ground capacity to discussing our new disabled stands so quickly and completely? Personally I think the club have spent huge amounts of money to add next to nothing to the capacity. Surely this could have been done far more easily and cheaply?

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:54 am

houseboy wrote:How did we go from calculating ground capacity to discussing our new disabled stands so quickly and completely? Personally I think the club have spent huge amounts of money to add next to nothing to the capacity. Surely this could have been done far more easily and cheaply?
I think we’re doing it on the cheap anyway, as usual. We’ve gone for the cheap corrugated cladding finish instead of the higher quality cassette cladding that’s on the Club shop. I think grounds using the cassette cladding always look better.

I agree that spending £30/40m (???) or maybe a bit more on sorting the Bob Lord and Cricket Field stands, factoring in disabled access, could have been better spent? Maybe access is the actual issue there though. £5m seems a lot for what we’re getting.

Regarding capacity it was a bit more than just the metre square check, certainly from the 1970’s and 80’s.

enduroclaret
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 3:17 pm
Been Liked: 92 times
Has Liked: 32 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by enduroclaret » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:43 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Have you ever wondered how they did it in the old days with terraces?
Here's an old picture showing it.
Officials calculate crowd capacity at Bern’s Wankdorf Stadium ahead of the 1954 World Cup.

Image
I reckon at Brighton they'd get at least another couple of blokes in that square metre.
This user liked this post: houseboy

Better Call Saul
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:12 pm
Been Liked: 116 times
Has Liked: 48 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Better Call Saul » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:41 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:If the figures given above are “disabled” do they then each have a “minder”?
Sorry about terminology but I don’t know what is current.
A 'Minder' ?
Does that mean George Cole & Dennis Waterman have started supporting the Clarets.

houseboy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
Been Liked: 2238 times
Has Liked: 1617 times
Location: Baxenden

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by houseboy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:30 am

Better Call Saul wrote:A 'Minder' ?
Does that mean George Cole & Dennis Waterman have started supporting the Clarets.
That’s a good point.

And the terminology, according to my wife who works for social serices, is carer.

ClaretShaun
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:37 am
Been Liked: 26 times
Has Liked: 7 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by ClaretShaun » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:50 am

bfcmik wrote:We are both right - The unbuilt stand is indeed lower, as you say, but it also still has 3 viewing levels. They are rather more compressed than the one between the JM and the JH stands. I suspect it is designed to be level with the Bob Lord roof
Not really. You said the roofs looked the same level, as wasn’t just saying it’s a full level in height lower on the BLS side, plans show 3 platforms on one side and 2 other, throw in the control box and you’d imagine places on that’s side.

Not that it matters.

ClaretShaun
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:37 am
Been Liked: 26 times
Has Liked: 7 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by ClaretShaun » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:51 am

houseboy wrote:How did we go from calculating ground capacity to discussing our new disabled stands so quickly and completely? Personally I think the club have spent huge amounts of money to add next to nothing to the capacity. Surely this could have been done far more easily and cheaply?
You might personally think that but you’re missing the whole point of it.

It was the right thing to do and was nothing in monetary terms to us.
This user liked this post: bfcmik

Lowbankclaret
Posts: 6571
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:42 pm
Been Liked: 1233 times
Has Liked: 56 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:46 am

I applaud the club for complying with rules on providing accommodation for disabled supporters.

I do wonder if there are enough disabled supporters to takes all those places.

I humbly suggest some levels may quickly become Corporate boxes.

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1100 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by bfcmik » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:36 pm

houseboy wrote:How did we go from calculating ground capacity to discussing our new disabled stands so quickly and completely? Personally I think the club have spent huge amounts of money to add next to nothing to the capacity. Surely this could have been done far more easily and cheaply?
The new new builds have nothing to do with increasing capacity and everything to do with making sure every fan, regardless of capability, has the freedom to attend matches. It is the right and proper thing to do.

I don't understand why people are so het up about increasing the ground capacity anyway. We could get, at most, another 1000 bums on seats for the 2nd tier of games whilst we would probably fill many more when playing ManUre, Liverpool or Citeh but we already have plenty of seats for the majority of matches. Also, we should not forget that 10% of any increased capacity has to go to away fans.

Claretforever
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 507 times

Re: Calculating ground capacity

Post by Claretforever » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:40 pm

bfcmik wrote:The new new builds have nothing to do with increasing capacity and everything to do with making sure every fan, regardless of capability, has the freedom to attend matches. It is the right and proper thing to do.

I don't understand why people are so het up about increasing the ground capacity anyway. We could get, at most, another 1000 bums on seats for the 2nd tier of games whilst we would probably fill many more when playing ManUre, Liverpool or Citeh but we already have plenty of seats for the majority of matches. Also, we should not forget that 10% of any increased capacity has to go to away fans.
We currently offer 2,458 away tickets, which covers us up to a capacity of 24,580, or 2,600 more than the ground currently holds.

I think you’re looking at it blinkered slightly, and not thinking about the opportunity to sell the club to a wider audience as the only Premier League club in Lancashire, and to revisit some of our old catchment areas in West Yorkshire. Perhaps even into enemy territory dare I say. Right now we don’t have enough spare capacity to have a sustained effort at doing that.

Post Reply