Mike Garlick says we have £24m in bank

[Claret eze]

If we built a stand with safe standing now you still get a seat.they are on rails.future proof.

[Claret eze]

A kid is more likely to get hooked on burnley when we play man Utd or Liverpool than Fulham or Huddersfield.trouble is he can't get a seat for them games.fanbases increase in the Premier League.everybody wants to see the stars at the turf.

[Long Time Lurker]

I prefer Mikes figure of £24m. In Premier League terms that is only one step ahead of saying that we don't have a pot to **** in.

It might just be me, but when it comes to negotiating in a high price market telling everyone you are cash rich opens the doors for them to price gouge you. The best policy is always to play the pauper.

One of the main issues that continually resurfaces every year, in respect to our finance, is an inability to recognise the difference between revenue and profit. It is easy to look at the revenue that we get from being in the top tier and mistakenly equate that to what we have to spend. However, revenue is the money coming into the club before running costs are deducted and running a top tier club has never been cheap. Like any business, deducting your ongoing costs dramatically reduces the money you have available to spend.

I think we are doing okay finance wise, but I would like to see us make a couple of quality additions in key areas in the next window. On top of that I would like to see us use the £10m+ that we might normally allocate to the purchase of an established player being spent on a number of quality U23 additions. If we target out of contract players, who could still cost us in terms of compensation fees, agent fees and sign up bonuses we could make that money go a long way.

We could probably bring in four of five players for that amount. I'm not talking about any new to the game players who are being lauded as potential world beaters. Players like that can prove to be costly mistakes and every penny matters to us. However, a number of players are set to be available during the next window who have taken the next step up the ladder in terms of demonstrated levels of performance. The type of players who have put in a consistently solid series of appearances at a young age which act as quantitative benchmarks above and beyond the hype that often surrounds young players. I picked out my own short list in a previous post, but it certainly wasn't an exhaustive one.

If the prices Championship clubs are asking for their players are rising, possibly in an attempt to get themselves out of the financial quagmire with a one sale saves all approach, then we could be in danger of being priced out of our regular hunting grounds. And it isn't like we are broad afield in our hunting endeavours at the best of times. We will have to be wider ranging or move towards finding players earlier in their careers who can grow with us. Simply saying that it is difficult and prices are high is achieving nothing. Prices will always be high when you stem supply by limiting yourself to a small market, that is how supply and demand pricing works.

If we were £8m-12m off the asking price for Che and we put in a bid for £8m-12m which would have been arguably realistic then things look bleak for our Championship shopping in the near future, because our cash reserves of £24m will equate to a single player in the next window. Not spending when we have the chance and not bringing in players with good mark up potential could cause us problems if prices continue to rise and our own assets depreciate in value as our squad ages.

One of the things that really irked me in respect to the last window was our blanket "do nothing" approach. All of our direct competitors had spent big in the Summer which left them with little money to do much of anything in the Winter window. Did they shut up shop and sit back, no they didn't. When you look at their business they switched to bringing in less expensive players to protect their future. The type players that don't generate big headlines or have an immediate impact on their squad.

In a league where success is built around "fine margins" they did everything they could to squeeze an advantage out of the market opportunities. Adopting a "down tools and do nothing" strategy in the last window was a very poor strategic decision on our part that only benefitted new entrants to the recruitment team with a ridiculous eight month run in before they are required to demonstrate their worth.

I want to see what new entrants can do in a difficult environment as a measure of their ability. That constitutes a true test of their talent spotting credentials, portfolio of targets and long term strategic vision. Did the Winter window have some difficult nuances, yes it did. At that time we were looking a lot less secure in our bid to remain in the EPL and it is a short window. However, the decision to do nothing until the next window, apart from chasing a few loans and raising funds, was lamentable. Although looking at Riggs history side stepping the difficult Winter window, apart from looking to bring in loans, is a well documented pattern.

To my mind, the comments on the reduced expenditure and player movement in the Winter window and how they point to a trend are not taking the bigger picture into account. A number of things made the last windows an anomaly for the EPL clubs. The Summer spend outside the top six actually increased over the two windows.

The fact that the top clubs had a reduced net spend brought down the overall figure. Some of them were going through upheavals, some were spending big on their physical infrastructures and some of them had squads they were happy with or they missed out on players whose sales would have made a big difference. It is also interesting to note that while expenditure and movement was lower for the top tier it actually registered an increase in the Championship. A strange state of affairs when we hear that half of them are under transfer embargoes, which they aren't. To say that things are changing is to judge the forest by the visible tree line.

The decrease in the expenditure during the Winter window by our direct competitors was wholly predictable. It isn't a matter of hindsight it was obviously going to be the case. They spent all their transfer kitties in the Summer window leaving them with nothing to spend. We had cash available and we should have had an easier time of it than normal because of that. Instead we decided to do nothing, possibly to give our new recruitment guy time to get back up to an acceptable performance level, because he is a little out of the loop having spent nearly two years on the periphery of football.

If the Chairman is being honest about the price demanded for Che, and I think he is, then we never had a chance and the fact that we went in for him and highlighted his availability ahead of the next window just teed him up for another club. We didn't beat Southampton with a good performance, they had no money to spend and their ability to bid big was dependant on them moving players like Austin on to bring in cash. We didn't deliver them a devastating knockout punch they simply didn't have enough financial energy to make it into the ring at that moment in time.

Summer will be different when the cash reserves of our competitors are replenished. We missed a free run opportunity at players in the last window. It is as simple as that. If we are under the foolish illusion that we are doing well, we are cruising for a first round bruising in the next window.

Is the market broken, yes, in a number of ways. I would agree with that, but if you are smart what you do when you encounter a broken market is you rub your hands together and look for all of the ways you can exploit its broken state or you recognise it and you put forward thinking plans in place to protect you from it. A broken market is a market of opportunity as any astute investor knows, because even if you simply protect yourself from the negatives, when your competitors don't, then you will move ahead of them.

In the next window our league status will be known, we will have longer to act and a fresh infusion of cash to go with what we didn't spend and what player sales have or will raise. We will also have an extra six months to get our act together. I wasn't expecting a monumental Winter window of big spending, but I was expecting to see some signs of improvement in our strategic vision.

A demonstrated reluctance to step up and compete in a challenging arena like the Winter window, even if it is only for the relative scraps, is a disservice to what our players and other staff members consistently do week in and week out. They don't get the opportunity to sit back and wait for an easier ride and the same should apply to everyone. If you can only win when it is easy to win then you aren't a true winner, you are an ego stroking glory hunter, and that isn't the Burnley way.

We don't sit back and take things easy, we fight for everything, because that is what we need to do to move forwards. The valuable mantra of "minimum requirement is maximum effort" was nowhere to be seen in the last window. We didn't fight for every inch and we failed to show any indication of being smarter and more prepared than our competitors. We flounced around waiting for a set piece to fall in our laps that never materialised. In that sense it was worse than the Summer window.

We planned to fail, because doing nothing in this league is tantamount to taking a step backwards.

What do I expect to see during the interim between windows?

I expect to see some signs that our recruitment infrastructure is developing in terms of adding to our scouting network. Looking back at Riggs history of transfers and the impact that he has had on other clubs he needs a quality support team to generate the success we need to generate from restrained spending and small adjustments to the current squad.

I would also like to see increased evidence of us being far more pro-active in the transfer off season, with moves being made for out of contract foreign players that we can approach before the window opens, with a view to things like putting in place pre-contracts. Obviously, nobody that we sign in the interim period can join us or play for us, but that doesn't rule out making any signings. I want people to enter the recruitment building thinking "what can I do today that will benefit us tomorrow".

The recruitment team were given a happy little re-active holiday in the last window. It was a holiday that we couldn't realistically afford to give them after the lack lustre Summer window. That is in the past now, but they need to start repaying that feet up period with an increase in workload and output sooner rather than later.

We need to work harder than everyone else, we need to plan better than all of the other clubs and we need to be shrewder than them. At the moment I don't see a lot of evidence that we are ticking any of those boxes.

I like Mike Garlick, I like what he has previously done and will do for our club, but after watching his last interview it included too much happy go lucky back patting for my taste. Either we are in denial of reality to sanction undeserved self praise or we are in danger of losing the plot. The last window was a sombre failure when we needed a good one, if not for the present for the future.

Improvements to the ground are all well and good, but they are dependent on preserving our very lucrative PL revenue stream. No money means no improvements to the physical infrastructure. We need to safeguard our performance on the pitch first and foremost. Before you can spend it you have to earn it.

[Rileybobs]

Leg room is from seat to seat in front.
If smaller seats then bigger area becomes available.

Leg room is exactly that, room for your legs. Both in front and to each side. Introducing plastic seats would reduce leg room.

[Claretforever]

I’ve only logged in to congratulate you on the longest comment I’ve ever seen on this message board.

2,076 words, 11,324 characters/keyboard taps.

[Rileybobs]

I’ve only logged in to congratulate you on the longest comment I’ve ever seen on this message board.

2,076 words, 11,324 characters/keyboard taps.

Totally unnecessary isn’t it.

[Long Time Lurker]

And of course, we do need to revamp the squad this summer.

This season (if we stay up) will represent a drop in about 15/16/17 points on last season.

Thats a warning sign that we would do well to heed.

I seriously hope not. We performed badly at the start of the season, because we were assailed by change on a number of fronts and we found it very difficult to find a solid footing. In my eyes that was the stand out reasoning behind our poor start.

We lost both of our established goalkeepers and we had to bring in a new one who was expected to hit the ground running in a new squad with an unfamiliar defence. I think Joe did really good under the circumstances. He tried to do his best for us and he made some fine saves. His individual stats were quite good in some key areas and it was the overall performance of the team that let us down. I'm super happy to have Tom back between the sticks, but some of the criticism of Joe has been very undeserved.

Add to that all the changes to the players, in terms of being more widely known and the spanner in the works of our usual prepearation that the European requirements brought and we figthing to stand on the deck of a very rocky ship.

Revamping the squad with major changes is the very last thing that we should be doing at the start of next season.

Large scale change had a pronounced impact on us this season so starting next season on the back of the change that will accompany a squad revamp will only end up having a similar effect. It is only my opinion, but look take at what happened when Rigg was given license to make massive squad changes in his time at QPR and Fulham. Putting aside the huge cash losses at QPR and the transfer embargo at Fulham, the playing performances at both clubs took a serious hit.

Or look at what has happened to Fulham this season, which was a follow on consequence of his time with them and the establishment of an over reliance on loans as they sought to dig themselves out of the disasterous mess his transfer policy wrought. Their promotion was probably as much of a surpise to them as anyone else and it had everything to do with the quality of loans that they brought in last season and little to do with the players they had accumulated. Their permanent signings were only good enough to take them down into Championship relegation battles after they dropped out of the EPL for two successive seasons.

Radical squad overhauls rarely work for any club and they are so far removed from our pulling together squad unity, which is a huge part of our success, that it would be cataclysmic to sanction one here. A couple of first team additions, maybe a couple of players moving on if they decide to do so, and a number of quality recruits for the development squads will do me fine.

The lads have done fantastic to get us back on track this season and you don't reward that level of commitment to the cause and digging deep to rediscover their performance levels with transfer papers. That would be wrong on so many levels.

[corporal jones]

why on earth would the Chairmen tell anyone how much money is in the bank ? Does he want to pay more in the Transfer window ? guess so

er, because 24 mill is not a lot in football terms.

[corporal jones]

why on earth would the Chairmen tell anyone how much money is in the bank ? Does he want to pay more in the Transfer window ? guess so

er, because 24 mill is not a lot in football terms.

[Long Time Lurker]

I’ve only logged in to congratulate you on the longest comment I’ve ever seen on this message board.

2,076 words, 11,324 characters/keyboard taps.

I didn't really contribute to the discussions about how our last window went. We weren't in a happy place in December so I thought it was best for me stay quiet. I stored a lot up and with our recent up turn in form I felt more confortable letting it all out in one gigantic single tappety tap go.

I feel quite cleansed

[Paul Waine]

A kid is more likely to get hooked on burnley when we play man Utd or Liverpool than Fulham or Huddersfield.trouble is he can't get a seat for them games.fanbases increase in the Premier League.everybody wants to see the stars at the turf.

Hi eze, it didn't used to be like that. My first game, back in 1967, Burnley beat Fulham. I don't recall if Fulham got relegated at the end of that season. At a guess, Burnley finished 14th (out of 22), because late 60s, we nearly always seemed to finish 14th - and, I'll take 14th again this season.

UTC

[Paul Waine]

I seriously hope not. We performed badly at the start of the season, because we were assailed by change on a number of fronts and we found it very difficult to find a solid footing. In my eyes that was the stand out reasoning behind our poor start.

Radical squad overhauls rarely work for any club and they are so far removed from our pulling together squad unity, which is a huge part of our success, that it would be cataclysmic to sanction one here. A couple of first team additions, maybe a couple of players moving on if they decide to do so, and a number of quality recruits for the development squads will do me fine.

The lads have done fantastic to get us back on track this season and you don't reward that level of commitment to the cause and digging deep to rediscover their performance levels with transfer papers. That would be wrong on so many levels.

Hi Long Time, great post (and, I've only cut some of text above for ease of other posters.

You make a good point about Mike Rigg's transfer targets. I'd expect Sean and Mike Garlick both understand the benefits of stability and the need to avoid "mass" changes (however much money we have in the bank).

It's not unreasonable to think that Mike Rigg can identify "2 or 3" good targets - but, would become a stretch, and quality would suffer, if he was asked to find 6 or 7 new first team squad players. Fulham is one great example of how "spending lots of money" is rarely the answer.

UTC

[Jakubs Tash]

The worst thing the chairman did was mention a figure. Everyone has now started wildly speculating. Nobody actually knows what the real situation is. For all we know, we might have received an installment of money today and now have £70m in the bank.

Just trust the owners and try and enjoy us being in the Premier League.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I’ve only logged in to congratulate you on the longest comment I’ve ever seen on this message board.

2,076 words, 11,324 characters/keyboard taps.

Given that he is LONG TIME Lurker and you are Claret FOREVER I found those two posts highly appropriate.

The post was a good one too so I felt obliged to read it (though if the club have a long term capital investment plan in place publicly that also says to our rivals we have little cash for players and has the same effect - there will be a plan, why not tell us?).

[Royboyclaret]

Crosspool.....Of one thing I'm certain is that they'll tell us as little as they possibly can. Something happened around six years ago when the Board in their wisdom ended the annual AGM, meaning even the shareholders were denied the opportunity to ask relevant questions. There was a half-hearted acknowledgement at the time that communication with the fans was important and for one year only held an informal shareholders meeting.

Since then, absolutely nothing apart from a five minute interview with the Chairman twice a year. Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed, even the release of the accounts is now left until the last possible moment.

[Claretforever]

Crosspool.....Of one thing I'm certain is that they'll tell us as little as they possibly can. Something happened around six years ago when the Board in their wisdom ended the annual AGM, meaning even the shareholders were denied the opportunity to ask relevant questions. There was a half-hearted acknowledgement at the time that communication with the fans was important and for one year only held an informal shareholders meeting.

Since then, absolutely nothing apart from a five minute interview with the Chairman twice a year. Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed, even the release of the accounts is now left until the last possible moment.

I’ve heard from what I consider a reasonable source today (stated as second hand information to me) that we have no chance of redeveloping the older stands for around 10-15 years. That’s what they reckon the life they have left in them is internally at board level. I’m astonished to be honest. I hope I’m being passed some dodgy information, but as it stands Garlick is full of bullshit, and is trying to placate the fans. Probably put plastic seats in the replace the decent wooden ones and call that redevelopment.

I can believe whilst we actually have some serious money we’re not planning something big for our size.

[Royboyclaret]

I’ve heard from what I consider a reasonable source today (stated as second hand information to me) that we have no chance of redeveloping the older stands for around 10-15 years. That’s what they reckon the life they have left in them is internally at board level. I’m astonished to be honest. I hope I’m being passed some dodgy information, but as it stands Garlick is full of bullshit, and is trying to placate the fans. Probably put plastic seats in the replace the decent wooden ones and call that redevelopment.

I can believe whilst we actually have some serious money we’re not planning something big for our size.

Agree totally with that description of Garlick.

Be absolutely certain, he will have known exactly which financial period end that figure of £24m related to but deliberately kept his response as vague as possible. They will communicate as little as they can get away with to the supporters and someone needs to take them to task about it.

[Claretforever]

The more I watch his interviews the more I disbelieve what he says.

For a bi-annual interview you know full well that Darren and Mike have had a dry run, after Mike has already had the questions. That’s how it works as I’ve been there for company interviews and videos. That interview will have been the second time, at worst, he’s responded to those questions. He’ll have quadruple checked his facts.

Everything said is propaganda to keep the fans happy....for another year at least. I’m struggling to believe a word these days.

[ClaretShaun]

Agree totally with that description of Garlick.

Be absolutely certain, he will have known exactly which financial period end that figure of £24m related to but deliberately kept his response as vague as possible. They will communicate as little as they can get away with to the supporters and someone needs to take them to task about it.

You might agree with the description but thank the lord he and Sean took control whey did.

Miracle men and we owe them a lot.

[TVC15]

I’ve heard from what I consider a reasonable source today (stated as second hand information to me) that we have no chance of redeveloping the older stands for around 10-15 years. That’s what they reckon the life they have left in them is internally at board level. I’m astonished to be honest. I hope I’m being passed some dodgy information, but as it stands Garlick is full of bullshit, and is trying to placate the fans. Probably put plastic seats in the replace the decent wooden ones and call that redevelopment.

I can believe whilst we actually have some serious money we’re not planning something big for our size.

I heard exactly the same thing tonight - and it was from a first hand source who was at the meeting this week where members of the board said the same thing.
But at least we are getting a second screen - would anyone like to guess where it will he located ? Because he told me that aswell !!

[bfcwest]

I heard exactly the same thing tonight - and it was from a first hand source who was at the meeting this week where members of the board said the same thing.
But at least we are getting a second screen - would anyone like to guess where it will he located ? Because he told me that aswell !!

Up his arse?

[Devils_Advocate]

I've only ever heard of one person say they don't attend because the available seats don't have a good enough view, and that is on this thread.

I used to go on about 8 home games a season in the Championship but since being in the Prem its reduced to 1 or 2 games a season. There are a few reasons for this but one is that getting 2 seats together a couple of days before the game is a nightmare with only what I consider terrible seats left.

Im not saying its worth the cost of redevelopment for fans like me but I would guess im not alone in staying away because I feel the seats available arent worth it.

When we finally go down and I can rock up when I want and get half decent seats I'll go on the games a lot more than I do today

[Royboyclaret]

You might agree with the description but thank the lord he and Sean took control whey did.

Miracle men and we owe them a lot.

And what relevance has that to the debate we're currently having ?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Ultimately, Mike and the other shareholders are the owners of the business to do with as they choose. Most businesses have a mission statement focused on maximising shareholder value.

Every logical business model would say don’t spend money on a product if you don’t get it back in sales. As I explained earlier, spending a fortune on new stands wiuldn’t get a return, it would simply safeguard the business by keeping the “premises” in fine fettle for another few decades.

So our only recourse would be to grumble on moral grounds if that money doesn’t get spent on us. We have a strong moral argument, because in many senses the money is fortuitous and football is a unique industry - but no legal or business one. They may or may not spend it on dividends, or hold it in cash to maximise the value of the club if sold. That’s up to them. We have no idea what the plan is. I have no more claim on that money than if I grumbled my local pub wasn’t being done up.

Personally, my decision would be whether I want to expose my daughter to the shocking facilities 20 times a year after a long drive now she is getting old enough to take on. I trust my instincts with my life and no, I don’t feel we will end up with more comfortable facilities (like a concourse I could trust her to walk through on her own instead of being crushed). My standards these days are too high for that. So my decision is, enjoy it for now, while we are at our peak, then, after nearly 40 years, I’m out.

[Royboyclaret]

But that's the very point I'm making, Crosspool.

There are 1,800 of us !!......Not just the secret seven.

[Garnerssoap]

Too many words in some posts. Gone boss eyed . However I agree the jyst of not all is settled and hunk dorey

[bfcwest]

The board might have the best interests at heart in terms of the club "not going bust...", but when it comes to Turf Moor and trying to grow as a club, the board clearly don't care one bit, think we are limited and are not bothered about what fans have to put up with. This negative outlook is a massive shame for two main reasons.

One, it means we won't grow our fanbase as the board are essentially performing a self fulfilling prophesy on this one, that by not providing an attractive physical product with the capacity for new customers, then we won’t get any new customers.

And the second is that the current customers are having to suffer what is arguably the worst hard and soft product in the top two divisions. Fans are being treated as secondary in the whole equation.

[Long Time Lurker]

It's not unreasonable to think that Mike Rigg can identify "2 or 3" good targets - but, would become a stretch, and quality would suffer, if he was asked to find 6 or 7 new first team squad players. Fulham is one great example of how "spending lots of money" is rarely the answer.

UTC

I like how you truncate my posts. It shows evidence of thought instead of clicking a button to repeat a wall of text. The fact that they appear on the boards once is more than enough for some people

I'm in complete agreement with holding Rigg on a tight "quality not quantity" rein. In all fairness to the bloke some of his past individual transfer moves were actually quite good, but they were lost amidst the ridiculous volume of questionable incomings and outgoings.

On the selling front at Fulham, getting Aston Villa to pay £14m+ for Ross McCormack and selling Sone Aluko for £7.5m, after signing him on a free transfer a year earlier, were very good business.

In respect to incomings, Tom Cairney was a good permanent transfer and to a lesser extent so were David Button, Stefan Johansen, Kevin McDonald, Ryan Fredericks and Tim Ream. The latter players being well suited to the Championship.

Considering his loan dealings I would pick out Chris Martin, Tomas Kalas and Lucas Piazon as some of his better moves, along with Jamie O'Hara as a midfield stop gap on a free transfer.

However, those players constitute the thin end of the wedge when you consider all of his transfer dealings during his two years at Fulham.

Over the course of two Summer windows 26 new players arrived at the club, including 15 permanent cash signings, 4 free transfers, 6 players coming to the club on loan and a player swap.

Over the course of the same two Summer windows a total of 36 players departed the club, including 9 cash sales, 15 free transfers, 11 players leaving on loan and a player swap.

The two Winter windows saw the arrival of 9 players on loan and the departure of 4 players on free transfers and 11 players on loan.

That is an astronomical amount of upheaval, especially when you consider that they were under a transfer embargo for one of the windows.

I don't think all the blame can be laid directly at his doorstep though, because their Chairman is a bit potty and he had to contend with Craig Kline who seems to think a "money ball" strategy, which has been successful in a compartmental sport like baseball, can be transposed into a fluid game like football.

A statistical based approach is certainly a valuable addition to on the ground scouting, but the fluidity of football makes interpreting all of collected the data a lot more complex and prone to misleading errors. Even American football is more structured towards making specific assessments with its double team stop and start approach to game play. The devil is always in the details when it comes to interpreting statistical data.

His time at QPR delivered them no players of any particular note and a great many players who were allowed to wind down their careers on good wages for putting in throw away performances.

Over the course of a single window 12 players arrived at the club, including 5 cash signings, 5 players on free transfers and 1 loan. 21 players left the club, including 3 sold for cash, 8 free transfers and 10 loans.

His time at Man City was slightly different, but in the company of Mark Hughes they managed to get through nearly £300 million in transfer expenditure during their first season with a lot of questionable high profile signings. That expenditure was compounded by excessive wages.

The situation of more money than good sense continued, albeit to a slightly lesser degree. He left Man City to take up a position with Mark Hughes at QPR, shortly before they brought in Txiki Begiristain as their Technical Director in response to Roberto Mancini publically expressed his frustrations at Man City's transfer policy. I'm not sure what Riggs specific title and position was at Man City, because their football administrator Brian Marwood apparently had a very big say in player recruitment prior to the arrival of Txiki.

When it comes to Rigg and his future transfer dealings for us a "less is more" approach would seem to be the key until he has proved himself over time. From the outside looking in, his appointment with us seems to be his last chance to make good after some less than complimentary affiliations with other clubs.

If we can restrain his rampant buying sprees until all the managerial bull**** is replaced with Burnley we might have something, but until we reach that point I'm very nervous. I would have been a lot more comfortable with Mark, does what it says on the tin, Warburton. Sean arrived at Burnley with a core personality and ethos that was very close to mirroring our own, so we didn't have to spend a lot of time moulding him and his pragmatic suggestions quickly found welcoming ears.

I think training Rigg is going to be a much longer term project, but the dividends of subtly bringing him round to the Burnley way might be substantial, because we have definitely needed a Technical Director to take some of the weight off Garlick and Sean for a long time.

Keeping true to the core philosophy and freshening it up with some new ideas from time to time is the best way for us to move forwards, but that is just my opinion. Slow and steady wins the race, because we are not in a position to make any costly financial mistakes.

[Long Time Lurker]

The board might have the best interests at heart in terms of the club "not going bust...", but when it comes to Turf Moor and trying to grow as a club, the board clearly don't care one bit, think we are limited and are not bothered about what fans have to put up with. This negative outlook is a massive shame for two main reasons.

One, it means we won't grow our fanbase as the board are essentially performing a self fulfilling prophesy on this one, that by not providing an attractive physical product with the capacity for new customers, then we won’t get any new customers.

And the second is that the current customers are having to suffer what is arguably the worst hard and soft product in the top two divisions. Fans are being treated as secondary in the whole equation.

Cheerleaders are always easy on the eye, male and female to satisfy PC requirements of course. Although I shudder to think about the beer bellied blokes in budgie smugglers that a recruitment drive may throw up.

[Turfytop]

I’ve heard from what I consider a reasonable source today (stated as second hand information to me) that we have no chance of redeveloping the older stands for around 10-15 years. That’s what they reckon the life they have left in them is internally at board level. I’m astonished to be honest. I hope I’m being passed some dodgy information, but as it stands Garlick is full of bullshit, and is trying to placate the fans. Probably put plastic seats in the replace the decent wooden ones and call that redevelopment.

I can believe whilst we actually have some serious money we’re not planning something big for our size.

Don’t you mean the older stands should of been redeveloped 10-15 ago, It’s a joke if that rumour is true

[TsarBomba]

I’ve heard from what I consider a reasonable source today (stated as second hand information to me) that we have no chance of redeveloping the older stands for around 10-15 years. That’s what they reckon the life they have left in them is internally at board level. I’m astonished to be honest. I hope I’m being passed some dodgy information, but as it stands Garlick is full of bullshit, and is trying to placate the fans. Probably put plastic seats in the replace the decent wooden ones and call that redevelopment.

I can believe whilst we actually have some serious money we’re not planning something big for our size.

We have done a lot of things right at Burnley this past decade which should be applauded.

But, and it’s a big but, the disregard shown towards us by the board I find extraordinary.

Dirty toilets, dangerous concourses, **** seats, crap food. We’re in the Premier League for god sake. There are teams in League 1 and League 2 with better supporter facilities than us.

I’ve got two young boys, and in the not too distant future, I’ll be thinking about taking them on their first football game.

Will I be driving 300 miles to the Turf, in its current state, where I can’t get 3/4 seats together in a reasonable position? No, probably not. Chances are they could end up supporting another team, and the sad thing is I’m quite ambivalent about it.

Garlick and the board would be wise to remember that if and when the Prem money does run out, and we’re back to scratching around in the Championship, that it will be us, and ONLY us, putting money back into the club again.

[Top Claret]

Post 203... Ffs. Wtf was all that about. Could anyone be arsed reading it?

[bfcwest]

Post 203... Ffs. Wtf was all that about. Could anyone be arsed reading it?

And the sad thing is it was completely off topic. We were having an interesting debate on the development of Turf Moor (IMHO), and then LTL dumps 2076 words on transfer dealings. "look at me..."

[Claret eze]

Hi eze, it didn't used to be like that. My first game, back in 1967, Burnley beat Fulham. I don't recall if Fulham got relegated at the end of that season. At a guess, Burnley finished 14th (out of 22), because late 60s, we nearly always seemed to finish 14th - and, I'll take 14th again this season.

UTC

Hi Paul, I agree somewhat but times change.im from.burnley and as a kid didn't get to go on.the turf(except the last 10mins when the gates were opened).Liverpool were on the tv every other week so followed them,got the strip etc,then came the Orient game and my uncle took me on.obviously loved it and the rest is history,I want to see burnley win and I don't care if its against the dog and duck,kids love seeing the stars.hopefully they want to be Barnes and McNeil in the playground this week.i love seeing where people are from,vegas claret ,ashington claret and davemanu supporting little burnley on my doorstep,some from burnley some not. When we are all gone I would like to think we could get back to the days of 40 odd or 50 odd thousand on the turf.maybe,maybe not but it's the kids that will decide that.

[Corky]

Long Time Lurker said this at the end of his very very very long post;

"Improvements to the ground are all well and good, but they are dependent on preserving our very lucrative PL revenue stream. No money means no improvements to the physical infrastructure. We need to safeguard our performance on the pitch first and foremost. Before you can spend it you have to earn it."

A few seasons ago now I took a friend onto the Soton - Burnley game in winter. He had never been to a footy match before and considering St Marys is a comparatively new ground he was horrified by the what he considered the poor level of the facilities. They didn't strike me as such as I had clearly become inured to these things. But, you came into the ground via a turnstile and then turned sharp right to the bar. There was nothing stopping the wind whistle in from outside and if you looked up you saw the underside of the stand. Also there was nowhere to sit. He couldn't believe it. It was absolutely freezing. Also on, I think, her first visit to the Turf my wife commented on how poor the facilities were on the concourse (corridor really) in the upper Longside. She has been back once more with the children and that is it.

I hope this illustrates that improvements to the ground are not only needed but need to be ongoing. And yes, to some extent, they are dependant on our success and we would look silly like those down the road who now have a better ground than their players if we went mad and spent too much. However how many people on here have mortgages and credit cards. You do not need to earn money to spend it. In my view it would be crazy to wait 10 years to rebuild the CFS. I'm not suggesting we spend like Tottenham but it is doable. And it could be funded quite easily with sensible business loans. Facilities need to improve all around the ground now not in 10 years time. That does not necessarily mean increasing the capacity of the ground.

[COBBLE]

I must admit to being disappointed by the information (if true) that we will not upgrade the CFS and BLS for 15 years. Surely this requires issuing
shares to generate (at least some of) the amount needed. It would also reveal the true priorities of the current group of directors if they accepted a potential diminution of the share value. Fans or investors? I am sure there are potential investors out there in the UK or overseas. I have plenty of respect for the current board but if they are not prepared to properly address this key business aspect of the business and improve the brand then my respect lessens, as they are putting personal interests first.

[joey13]

Long Time Lurker said this at the end of his very very very long post;

"Improvements to the ground are all well and good, but they are dependent on preserving our very lucrative PL revenue stream. No money means no improvements to the physical infrastructure. We need to safeguard our performance on the pitch first and foremost. Before you can spend it you have to earn it."

A few seasons ago now I took a friend onto the Soton - Burnley game in winter. He had never been to a footy match before and considering St Marys is a comparatively new ground he was horrified by the what he considered the poor level of the facilities. They didn't strike me as such as I had clearly become inured to these things. But, you came into the ground via a turnstile and then turned sharp right to the bar. There was nothing stopping the wind whistle in from outside and if you looked up you saw the underside of the stand. Also there was nowhere to sit. He couldn't believe it. It was absolutely freezing. Also on, I think, her first visit to the Turf my wife commented on how poor the facilities were on the concourse (corridor really) in the upper Longside. She has been back once more with the children and that is it.

I hope this illustrates that improvements to the ground are not only needed but need to be ongoing. And yes, to some extent, they are dependant on our success and we would look silly like those down the road who now have a better ground than their players if we went mad and spent too much. However how many people on here have mortgages and credit cards. You do not need to earn money to spend it. In my view it would be crazy to wait 10 years to rebuild the CFS. I'm not suggesting we spend like Tottenham but it is doable. And it could be funded quite easily with sensible business loans. Facilities need to improve all around the ground now not in 10 years time. That does not necessarily mean increasing the capacity of the ground.

What exactly did your friend who’s not interested in football expect ?

[summitclaret]

Totally unnecessary isn’t it.

It may be but the last para is absolutely spot on.

[summitclaret]

I heard exactly the same thing tonight - and it was from a first hand source who was at the meeting this week where members of the board said the same thing.
But at least we are getting a second screen - would anyone like to guess where it will he located ? Because he told me that aswell !!

was it in front of the existing one?

[CrosspoolClarets]

What exactly did your friend who’s not interested in football expect ?

Let us have a look at what is on the Spurs website for their new stadium. The below all relates to what is in the concourses. Then we should wind back and think for Burnley, with our wealth, what would we realistically expect?

CONCOURSE IN NUMBERS

60 Food and Drink Outlets

1800 HD TVs​

LONDON’S VIBRANT FOOD SCENE AT EVERY MATCH

Our 60 food and drink outlets along with The Market Place will serve a wide range of delicious
food. We are taking our inspiration from London’s vibrant street food market scene and will create a range of diverse menus along with traditional fan favourites.

Selected signature dishes from The Market Place will be available from outlets in all the Stands.

STAY WITH US AFTER THE FINAL WHISTLE

The Market Place - The perfect place to meet post-match

After the match, The Market Place becomes the perfect destination to meet up with friends and
family for a post-match drink or snack. We shall continue to serve our street-style food and our large range of drink options well after the final whistle.

A dedicated stage will play host to a programme of post-match entertainment including live music, Legends Q&As and DJ Sets. We shall, of course, show any other Premier League matches that are being broadcast post-match on our screens.

Fans from all stands can meet here.

OUR FEATURE BARS

A DESTINATION FOR FANS TO MEET UP

Our feature bars in the East and West Stands create a destination for fans to meet up before and after the match.

You will be surrounded by the matchday buzz in a ‘high street pub style’ experience and be able to enjoy a fantastic range of beers, wines, ciders and soft drinks.

THE DISPENSARY ~ West Stand – Level 5

Takes its name and design influence from the old Dispensary on the Tottenham High Road. The salvaged frontage of this building will be a feature of the Tottenham Experience.

THE WHITE HART ~ East Stand – Level 5

You’re sure to feel at home here.

THE SHELF ~ East Stand – Level 1

The Bricks used in the design have been salvaged from the East Stand of White Hart Lane whilst the metal work on the bar is inspired by the Archibald Leitch design for the old Shelf at White Hart Lane.

The 65m Goal Line Bar and Beavertown Microbrewery

At the rear of The Market Place in the South Stand is our 65m Goal Line Bar that runs the entire length of the goal line. Serving a wide range of beers, wines, ciders and soft drinks along with food items from our fan favourites range, this bar is the longest in Europe.

Beavertown Brewery has become the Official Craft Beer Supplier. Craft beer will be brewed on-site – a world first for any football stadium - where fans will be able to enjoy the local brewery’s exciting range of craft beers, as well as a collaboration beer that is set to be created and brewed in partnership with Tottenham Hotspur and its fans.

Fans situated in other stands can visit these destination bars pre and post-match.

One word. WOW. Yes, we can’t expect that. But we can sure as heck do a mini version of it. But will we? Not on your nelly. WHAT a way that would be to get people to put in many cases horrible weeks behind them and have a really good, entertaining and luxurious day at the football. Transformational to people’s lives, mindsets, mental health - a bit different to sitting in our lower tiers, hood pulled over the head to stop the cold driving rain, sipping on a flask of coffee to keep warm rather than enduring the suffocating crush of the concourse and toilets.

OK - time for me to head off to those lovely concourses now, UTC

[TVC15]

was it in front of the existing one?

Not quite !
It’s going to be between the Bob Lord and the Cricket field stand

[TsarBomba]

The facilities on offer at the new Spurs ground are phenomenal.

It’s not just the football that will attract the next generation of fans, but everything else that goes with it, and the match day ‘experience’ will play an increasing role. We need to accept this and tap into it.

We really are behind the times, but what I don’t understand is this almost perverse pride some have in having a dilapidated ground.

[AndyClaret]

God help anyone with kids, I was lucky that we were still in the championship when my 2 started going on. Almost impossible to get seats together now unless you want to move to crap seats.

[MACCA]

Sadly where Garlick is concerned I take it with a pinch of salt.

The hashtag of Garlickstinks really hits the nail on the head for me.

We are so reactive as a club it's untrue. I can't of think of very much, other than frozen seats again ( pun not intended ) where the club , thinks outside the box, rewards fans, thinks of the fans first, goes above and beyond.

We only seem to do things only when told, or it's vitally needed , and even then it's put off until the very last minute, done through gritted teeth and usually on the cheap or a patch up job.

Thank goodness Mr Dyche is here, as when he goes it'll all go down hill.

[MACCA]

God help anyone with kids, I was lucky that we were still in the championship when my 2 started going on. Almost impossible to get seats together now unless you want to move to crap seats.

You'll be fine next season, I think there's quite a few that won't be renewing and by quite a few I'd guess we'll into 4 figures.

So go down after the early bird deadline, and swap seats to a more sheltered place and you'll certainly have more than a few options of 2 seats together.

[Paul Waine]

Long Time Lurker said this at the end of his very very very long post;

"Improvements to the ground are all well and good, but they are dependent on preserving our very lucrative PL revenue stream. No money means no improvements to the physical infrastructure. We need to safeguard our performance on the pitch first and foremost. Before you can spend it you have to earn it."

A few seasons ago now I took a friend onto the Soton - Burnley game in winter. He had never been to a footy match before and considering St Marys is a comparatively new ground he was horrified by the what he considered the poor level of the facilities. They didn't strike me as such as I had clearly become inured to these things. But, you came into the ground via a turnstile and then turned sharp right to the bar. There was nothing stopping the wind whistle in from outside and if you looked up you saw the underside of the stand. Also there was nowhere to sit. He couldn't believe it. It was absolutely freezing. Also on, I think, her first visit to the Turf my wife commented on how poor the facilities were on the concourse (corridor really) in the upper Longside. She has been back once more with the children and that is it.

I hope this illustrates that improvements to the ground are not only needed but need to be ongoing. And yes, to some extent, they are dependant on our success and we would look silly like those down the road who now have a better ground than their players if we went mad and spent too much. However how many people on here have mortgages and credit cards. You do not need to earn money to spend it. In my view it would be crazy to wait 10 years to rebuild the CFS. I'm not suggesting we spend like Tottenham but it is doable. And it could be funded quite easily with sensible business loans. Facilities need to improve all around the ground now not in 10 years time. That does not necessarily mean increasing the capacity of the ground.

Hi Corky, when I read you "took a friend onto Soton v Burnley" I thought you'd typed that the wrong way round and were referring to t'Turf. I couldn't see how someone could feel that St Mary's is lacking.... Then, I thought of my experience earlier this week at the Pepsi Center in Denver where I watched my first NHL (ice hockey) game. Yes, if I wasn't a football fan and focussed on the game of football that I'd soon be watching on the football pitch, maybe I would be looking at the stadium facilities and thinking "what's this all about." Pepsi Center was nothing special. I can imagine the new WHL having several of the "21st C" stadium features. (Pepsi Center, also, was cold - but I think it had something to do with the pitch! ).
Wembley and London Stadium are 2 of the newer football stadiums - both are freezing when an icy wind blows thru them, which I think was the case at both earlier this season.

I suggest you think a little more though about your idea of "do not need to earn money to spend it." Sorry, that's not how it works. If I want a mortgage I need to be earning the money to be able to pay it back. What do you think would be the response by all the banks if Mike Garlick, or any Burnley football club director turned up and said can you lend me, let's say £50 million to redevelop one of the stands to 21stC standards? The question would be, where will you get the money from to pay it back? Let's say the director's answer is, well, we are in the Premier League and we currently receive over £100 million per season.... Bank manager: "How much of the £100 million is left after you've paid he players and all the other club costs?" Bank manager's next question: And, how much money will you be making if you aren't in the Premier League?"

UTC

[randomclaret2]

I wouldnt mind a sip of something from " Beavertown Brewery "

[Spijed]

One word. WOW. Yes, we can’t expect that. But we can sure as heck do a mini version of it. But will we? Not on your nelly. WHAT a way that would be to get people to put in many cases horrible weeks behind them and have a really good, entertaining and luxurious day at the football. Transformational to people’s lives, mindsets, mental health - a bit different to sitting in our lower tiers, hood pulled over the head to stop the cold driving rain, sipping on a flask of coffee to keep warm rather than enduring the suffocating crush of the concourse and toilets.

OK - time for me to head off to those lovely concourses now, UTC

That will only ever be matched if the team are doing well on the pitch though. Supporters are very fickle and they won't care one iota about facilities if their team loses.

As for atmosphere, the New ground Spurs are building will probably end up like the London Stadium, the Etihad, the Emirates etc. All soul less.

Even Man City supporters are bitching about their ticketing facilities, saying they are third rate.

[JarrowClaret]

How disappointing if what has been said about keeping the older stands for another 15 years is true. That said when I had to sit in the Boblord a few years ago I found it was very enjoyable experience and nothing like what I expected although I must say it was the QPR game that got us promoted so that is a factor.

If we aren’t to re-build them for a while purely hypothetically is there any way of improving the concourse spaces around the ground whilst remaining in the current footprint? The 2 older stands I would guess nothing can be done although I think the Boblord is fine for space. My only thoughts were to move the facia of the newer stands out a few meters which would also allow us to improve the outside look of the stands which doesn’t keep the same footprint and probably would be too expensive/ not cost effective. Incorporate the current executive boxes somehow so we have a separate eating level the space in there and what we then did with the executives I have no idea about though. Is there any, more sensible options?

Edit tried to correct my English a bit I failed though

[TsarBomba]

Sadly where Garlick is concerned I take it with a pinch of salt.

The hashtag of Garlickstinks really hits the nail on the head for me.

We are so reactive as a club it's untrue. I can't of think of very much, other than frozen seats again ( pun not intended ) where the club , thinks outside the box, rewards fans, thinks of the fans first, goes above and beyond.

We only seem to do things only when told, or it's vitally needed , and even then it's put off until the very last minute, done through gritted teeth and usually on the cheap or a patch up job.

Thank goodness Mr Dyche is here, as when he goes it'll all go down hill.

Your second to last paragraph is spot on.