Violent crime in London

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pushpinpussy
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Violent crime in London

Post by pushpinpussy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:06 pm

The perpetrators, are mainly poor, and they are disproportionately black.

What can be done. its only getting worse.

London is a right shithole these days.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:London is a right shithole
Fixed a bit for you...

NottsClaret
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by NottsClaret » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:08 pm

pushpinpussy wrote: What can be done. its only getting worse.

London is a right shithole these days.
Just go to the nice bits, it's well good.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by CoolClaret » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:09 pm

Decriminalise taking drugs, legalise marijuana.
Limit the amount of opportunity of crime.
Make harsher drugs available at specific 'safe' shelters for users would be a good start, imo.
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Blackrod
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Blackrod » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:12 pm

The last time I was on the underground I looked around and thought I could be in a different country. I used to live there but I think it has changed a lot in the last 15 years or so and some types of crime have certainly increased.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:17 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:The perpetrators, are mainly poor, and they are disproportionately black.

What can be done. its only getting worse.

London is a right shithole these days.


Cut the drug supply out.

Get rid of the gang culture.

Get policing on the streets back in the community

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:20 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Decriminalise taking drugs, legalise marijuana.
Limit the amount of opportunity of crime.
Make harsher drugs available at specific 'safe' shelters for users would be a good start, imo.
An unexpected surprise, but a welcome.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:22 pm

Blackrod wrote:The last time I was on the underground I looked around and thought I could be in a different country. I used to live there but I think it has changed a lot in the last 15 years or so and some types of crime have certainly increased.
Incredibly diverse city. All these foreigners. Fantastic to be honest. Most incredible city on earth and we should be immensely proud of it. Theres a reason so many want to come here.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:23 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Decriminalise taking drugs, legalise marijuana.
Limit the amount of opportunity of crime.
Make harsher drugs available at specific 'safe' shelters for users would be a good start, imo.
There will always be a black market for things though - taxes on drugs etc would mean it’d just be cheaper to buy them off someone in the street and easier to take them if they could be obtained legally too.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Spijed » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:24 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:The perpetrators, are mainly poor, and they are disproportionately black.

What can be done. its only getting worse.

London is a right shithole these days.
But they do have indoor toilets and colour TVs

aggi
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by aggi » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:25 pm

bfccrazy wrote:There will always be a black market for things though - taxes on drugs etc would mean it’d just be cheaper to buy them off someone in the street and easier to take them if they could be obtained legally too.
Alcohol and cigarettes have huge taxes and, although there is a black market, it's not something most people can be bothered with.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:25 pm

Blackrod wrote:The last time I was on the underground I looked around and thought I could be in a different country. I used to live there but I think it has changed a lot in the last 15 years or so and some types of crime have certainly increased.
Crimes have gone up all over though and we live in a generation where it’s as easy to find out about a crime that has occurred half way around the world than it is to find out about something happening down the street. The same stuff happening nowadays is idolised by folk when it was done by gangsters in suits.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:26 pm

conyoviejo wrote:Cut the drug supply out.

Get rid of the gang culture.

Get policing on the streets back in the community

By trying to cut the drug supply by criminalising them we fuel gang culture by making those drugs very profitable for gangs.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:29 pm

bfccrazy wrote:Crimes have gone up all over though and we live in a generation where it’s as easy to find out about a crime that has occurred half way around the world than it is to find out about something happening down the street. The same stuff happening nowadays is idolised by folk when it was done by gangsters in suits.
Ronnie Biggs and The Krays. Loveable rogues.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by LeadBelly » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:30 pm

I'm a believer in some (softer end) drug decriminalisation too. It'd reduce the amount of money to be made by dealers and also raise tax revenue if it was legally sold/controlled.

Longer sentences for violent crime would also be good; I know it wont help with rehabilitation but just keeping violent criminals off the streets is good as far as I'm concerned. Could use the tax income from legalised soft drugs to resource prisons/more coppers.

It'd probably be good to be honest about criminality too. When some obvious gang criminal is stabbed/shot now, we forever hear about what a shame it was and how they had a great future and were good lads/about to go straight/train to be a doctor/great footballer etc etc. It'd be better all round to highlight the "live by the sword/die by the sword" aspect of criminals involved in violence and vilify rather than semi-heroize.

Otherwise: bring Ronnie and Reggie back - they loved their old mum you know. ;)
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:31 pm

aggi wrote:Alcohol and cigarettes have huge taxes and, although there is a black market, it's not something most people can be bothered with.
I know loads of people that’ll just book a cheap holiday/break away and stock up on fags from abroad. Loads of shops around Burnley that sell under counter cigs too that are always busy.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:32 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Ronnie Biggs and The Krays. Loveable rogues.
Exactly - shooting up pubs and stabbing people in a suit is fine .... in a tracksuit, you’re ****!

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:36 pm

bfccrazy wrote:I know loads of people that’ll just book a cheap holiday/break away and stock up on fags from abroad. Loads of shops around Burnley that sell under counter cigs too that are always busy.
I know what you mean, but the issue with illegal drugs is that they are often cut with chemicals and other substances that are not regulated. Legalising drugs will go a long way to eliminating that issue.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:40 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:I know what you mean, but the issue with illegal drugs is that they are often cut with chemicals and other substances that are not regulated. Legalising drugs will go a long way to eliminating that issue.
Which is a fair point - but would make it easier to obtain would mean more people think “that’s alright to have because it’s legal” .... imagine how many people would be walking around off their heads and how many more addicts there would be if things were legalised.

I’m not anti drugs - I’ve dabbled with party drugs in the past on big nights out etc ... but I wouldn’t want to be walking down the street and see people off their heads just because it’s legal to do so. At the minute unless you know someone who can get hold of something for you, you can’t get it and will just hear stories - ifthat changes there would be a lot more trouble IMO.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Blackrod » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:40 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Incredibly diverse city. All these foreigners. Fantastic to be honest. Most incredible city on earth and we should be immensely proud of it. Theres a reason so many want to come here.
Nothing against tourists visiting and it is good to experience different cultures. You shouldn’t feel like a foreigner in parts of your own county imo (roll on turtle and the sandal wearers).

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:44 pm

At some point politicians around the world will accept that the so called war on drugs is unwinnable and causing untold misery across the globe, just not sure it will be in my lifetime.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:45 pm

bfccrazy wrote:Which is a fair point - but would make it easier to obtain would mean more people think “that’s alright to have because it’s legal” .... imagine how many people would be walking around off their heads and how many more addicts there would be if things were legalised.

I’m not anti drugs - I’ve dabbled with party drugs in the past on big nights out etc ... but I wouldn’t want to be walking down the street and see people off their heads just because it’s legal to do so. At the minute unless you know someone who can get hold of something for you, you can’t get it and will just hear stories - ifthat changes there would be a lot more trouble IMO.
Good points mate. It is a minefield though isn’t it? I’m a firm believer in legalising cannabis, especially in prisons - it would be so chilled... ;) harder drugs on prescription only but with an open minded education programme to ensure future generations know what they’re doing with drugs - I’ll include cigarettes and alcohol along with that.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:51 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Good points mate. It is a minefield though isn’t it? I’m a firm believer in legalising cannabis, especially in prisons - it would be so chilled... ;) harder drugs on prescription only but with an open minded education programme to ensure future generations know what they’re doing with drugs - I’ll include cigarettes and alcohol along with that.
Definitely not an easy fix, I think canabis will become legalised in some capacities pretty soon - you can’t stop the gangs selling it though. It goes back probably as far back as time itself the dodgy side that goes along anything. I remember seeing ancient gold coins that had been found in the museum in Manchester and it mentioned how people would try and copy them back then even.

I’ve followed the Canadian/American legalisations and they seem to be gaining traction - they have the infrastructure to go along with it though. I was in Canada a few years back staying with some friends and my mate there worked at a pharmaceutical canabis farm and brought home things they didn’t want and could sell them on to make a bit on the side...... even people running the businesses legitimately were still into the black market side. This was even before canabis was legalised there, they were already gearing up for it to happen, knowing it would happen pretty soon.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:58 pm

At the risk of starting another outrage on here, maybe we should study Portugal's approach and see if it can be implemented here.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by SmudgetheClaret » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:04 pm

Hit them hard and lock them up for 10 years minimum we have tried the softly softly liberal way and the stabbings and deaths just increase..

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:05 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:At the risk of starting another outrage on here, maybe we should study Portugal's approach and see if it can be implemented here.

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They did it more because of huge rates of HIV from needle sharing though didn’t they? Cultivation is still a prosecution no matter the amount and even if found with substances you’ll still be held accountable but not sent straight to prison over a few joints.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:09 pm

bfccrazy wrote:They did it more because of huge rates of HIV from needle sharing though didn’t they? Cultivation is still a prosecution no matter the amount and even if found with substances you’ll still be held accountable but not sent straight to prison over a few joints.
I'm note sure it matters why they did it, just that they did and it seems to have had great benefits. Their HIV rate has collapsed too.
It's obviously more than just decriminalisation, which is why it should be studied to find out what they're doing right and try to implement it if we think it can be made to work here.


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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by theroyaldyche » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:17 pm

They wudnt last 2 mins up here these wanabe gangsters

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:39 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm note sure it matters why they did it, just that they did and it seems to have had great benefits. Their HIV rate has collapsed too.
It's obviously more than just decriminalisation, which is why it should be studied to find out what they're doing right and try to implement it if we think it can be made to work here.


Image

https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-year ... .fYJc9pI7d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Any way to stop infections etc is always a good thing - they used to have one of the highest rates of HIV in Europe through shared needles so had a huge needle exchange push.

The canabis problem isn’t just a new thing though whichnit’s being made out to be - I can remember mates skinning up on backstreets near high school 15 years ago... it’ll be a hard slog to rid the country of illegal drugs whichever way it’s gone about.

It’d be interesting to see the amounts seized in Portugal since decriminalisation to see if it’s affected how much it’s affected the illegal trade. I’d hazard a guess it has become more lucrative since laws were relaxed.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by tim_noone » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:46 pm

theroyaldyche wrote:They wudnt last 2 mins up here these wanabe gangsters
The real ones would be fine though.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by tim_noone » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:52 pm

Blackrod wrote:The last time I was on the underground I looked around and thought I could be in a different country. I used to live there but I think it has changed a lot in the last 15 years or so and some types of crime have certainly increased.
I brought my mate up last week he's a bit on the dark side ...from manor park. He thought it strange that everyone was white. :o

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:53 pm

bfccrazy wrote:Any way to stop infections etc is always a good thing - they used to have one of the highest rates of HIV in Europe through shared needles so had a huge needle exchange push.

The canabis problem isn’t just a new thing though whichnit’s being made out to be - I can remember mates skinning up on backstreets near high school 15 years ago... it’ll be a hard slog to rid the country of illegal drugs whichever way it’s gone about.

It’d be interesting to see the amounts seized in Portugal since decriminalisation to see if it’s affected how much it’s affected the illegal trade. I’d hazard a guess it has become more lucrative since laws were relaxed.
I agree, it might have become more lucrative, which is why i'm in favour of legalisation, not just decriminalisation.

I also don't see why drugs should be illegal in the first place. Someone choosing to shoot up, either for the first time or because they're a junkie, has absolutely no effect on anyone else.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by tim_noone » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:56 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I agree, it might have become more lucrative, which is why i'm in favour of legalisation, not just decriminalisation.

I also don't see why drugs should be illegal in the first place. Someone choosing to shoot up, either for the first time or because they're a junkie, has absolutely no effect on anyone else.
No affect on anyone else? Your on a fishing trip.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Stayingup » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:04 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Incredibly diverse city. All these foreigners. Fantastic to be honest. Most incredible city on earth and we should be immensely proud of it. Theres a reason so many want to come here.
Most incredible city on earth?

You should start travelling and I mean travelling.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Stayingup » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:05 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I agree, it might have become more lucrative, which is why i'm in favour of legalisation, not just decriminalisation.

I also don't see why drugs should be illegal in the first place. Someone choosing to shoot up, either for the first time or because they're a junkie, has absolutely no effect on anyone else.
Christ. I cant believe that shyte.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by tim_noone » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:13 pm

Stayingup wrote:Most incredible city on earth?

You should start travelling and I mean travelling.
Fantastic place..I wouldn't say incredible.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:16 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I agree, it might have become more lucrative, which is why i'm in favour of legalisation, not just decriminalisation.

I also don't see why drugs should be illegal in the
He first place. Someone choosing to shoot up, either for the first time or because they're a junkie, has absolutely no effect on anyone else.
Almost agreed til that facepalm last line

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Damo » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:22 pm

Banning posters of women in bikinis, and replacing them with posters promoting the ritual slaughter of animals would be a good start...

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Bosscat » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:32 pm

tim_noone wrote:No affect on anyone else? Your on a fishing trip.
Some big fish in this pond Tim ;)
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by CombatClaret » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:36 pm

Blackrod wrote:You shouldn’t feel like a foreigner in parts of your own county imo (roll on turtle and the sandal wearers).
No one in London is under any illusions as to what country they are in, the problem then probably lies in your head.

I've lived in the North East & South West England but right now I live in Peckham, the sort of place Donald Trump and a few people here would say is a 'No Go Area'.
It's a great place to live and is far more interesting that half the 'Ctrl C, Ctrl V' towns in the UK. Nothing wrong with having pride in where you're from but at least keep an open mind to life outside your bubble.

FYI I wear Magnum boots.
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by tim_noone » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:36 pm

Bosscat wrote:Some big fish in this pond Tim ;)
I for one will not be nibbling...m8 :D

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:23 pm

Stayingup wrote:Most incredible city on earth?

You should start travelling and I mean travelling.
Don't worry Judith Chalmers, I have done plenty.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:31 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Don't worry Judith Chalmers, I have done plenty.
Pffft - you even left the BB postcode? ;) :lol:
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by ClaretFelix » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:38 pm

The effect illicit drugs have on people's health and ultimately their lives is the reason they are illegal. It would seem a lot of people would be quite happy to see zombies roaming the streets unable to function and interact socially.

That goes as far as cannabis use and it's obvious effect on mental health, up to the physical effects of crack cocaine and heroin use.

And yes, I am aware that alcohol and tobacco are equally as addictive and destructive, but I think the ship has long since sailed to be thinking about bringing in prohibition
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by tim_noone » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:40 pm

ClaretFelix wrote:The effect illicit drugs have on people's health and ultimately their lives is the reason they are illegal. It would seem a lot of people would be quite happy to see zombies roaming the streets unable to function and interact socially.

That goes as far as cannabis use and it's obvious effect on mental health, up to the physical effects of crack cocaine and heroin use.

And yes, I am aware that alcohol and tobacco are equally as addictive and destructive, but I think the ship has long since sailed to be thinking about bringing in prohibition
The Damage has long been Done.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:17 pm

ClaretFelix wrote:The effect illicit drugs have on people's health and ultimately their lives is the reason they are illegal. It would seem a lot of people would be quite happy to see zombies roaming the streets unable to function and interact socially.

That goes as far as cannabis use and it's obvious effect on mental health, up to the physical effects of crack cocaine and heroin use.

And yes, I am aware that alcohol and tobacco are equally as addictive and destructive, but I think the ship has long since sailed to be thinking about bringing in prohibition
Please could I ask for your opinion on the medicinal benefits of many “illegal” and “illicit” drugs? And also what is your viewpoint on the control of drug manufacture for profit by global corporations, who have a strong lobbying position on politicians who are positioned to define law in relation to these drugs.

I ask because I am someone who would benefit in terms of my health from a currently “illegal” drug if it was legal for me to use. As it happens, licences for cannabis oils for large pharmaceuticals have been granted to profit from this drug, so it may soon be available to me on prescription (of course at s large cost to the NHS).

ClaretFelix
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by ClaretFelix » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:37 pm

There is quite clearly a difference between the cannabis people seen to be routinely using these days, and the medicinal variety, which is on the most part manufactured in controlled environments and not the bedroom of some terraced house in Burnley Wood.

I'm just not comfortable at all in the lack of education surrounding the use of cannabis, and the belief that it should be permitted to brazenly smoke it in the street.

As for politicians and their viewpoint and mutual benefits between them and the large corporations, there is nothing I can add. It is quite clear to see what's happening and I doubt anything will change anytime soon, something which is not exclusive to this racket
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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:00 pm

tim_noone wrote:No affect on anyone else? Your on a fishing trip.
Stayingup wrote:Christ. I cant believe that shyte.
bfccrazy wrote:Almost agreed til that facepalm last line


Three critical posts. Zero refutations.

If someone takes drugs then their act of taking drugs isn't forced upon anyone else (like drinking, and unlike smoking).

If you want to criticise my opinion, which i offered in good faith, then at least have the respect to criticise them constructively rather than just with dumb, ignorant comments like these.

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:03 pm

ClaretFelix wrote:The effect illicit drugs have on people's health and ultimately their lives is the reason they are illegal. It would seem a lot of people would be quite happy to see zombies roaming the streets unable to function and interact socially.

That goes as far as cannabis use and it's obvious effect on mental health, up to the physical effects of crack cocaine and heroin use.

And yes, I am aware that alcohol and tobacco are equally as addictive and destructive, but I think the ship has long since sailed to be thinking about bringing in prohibition

Alcohol and tobacco aren't equally as addictive and destructive. They're far, far worse.

Lets start with cannabis though, since you think that should be illegal. What "obvious effect" does that have on mental health?
How many deaths have been the result of cannabis use in, say the last year?

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Re: Violent crime in London

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:13 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Three critical posts. Zero refutations.

If someone takes drugs then their act of taking drugs isn't forced upon anyone else (like drinking, and unlike smoking).

If you want to criticise my opinion, which i offered in good faith, then at least have the respect to criticise them constructively rather than just with dumb, ignorant comments like these.
I thought you’d added it just to cause a bit of a stir being honest. If you actually feel that way then you’re entitled to your opinion.

I would argue though that the usual happenings of a lot of addicts affect a lot of other people. I’m not a small lad and can look after myself but have felt uneasy a couple of times walking through Manchester and seeing someone on spice going mental at passers by. I have seen needles disposed off in parks/public toilets (next time you’re on the turf, have a wander up onto the culvert and have a look around there and you’ll see so many used needles in A space kids could easily get to. Empty/dropped bags of powder/pills that a kid could pick up and try.

It’s direct impact could be on health services - I have had mates who have been rushed to hospital after too heavy a night out pretending they were horses .... that tied up an ambulance/paramedics and also a hospital bed for the night which has the potential of somebody else staying alive/dying.

You smoking a joint might not impact me directly, the things that can and regularly do happen with the use many other drugs have an undisputed impact on wider society though whilst being illegal. If legalised/decriminalised then its only logical to think that all the problems that come along with drugs have the potential of increasing a lot.

That’s before getting into the problems of more people who would be driving/operating machinery etc whilst under the influence of what would be a legal drug. Which is one part of the Portuguese system I do like, where people can be stripped of their jobs if drugs would affect a job which could put the safety of others in jeopardy.
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