Cardiff's fault

Jeffbfc · Post by **Jeffbfc** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:35 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47406109" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How do you get out of that one.
Could you say he's got it in first.
Says his son is owed 1.5 mill from Nantes. Not going to chase them for it at the moment.
At the moment all heart.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:41 pm

Just this minute read that article and watched the video. Not sure what to make of it to be honest.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:56 pm

If that fella told me it was raining i'd go outside to check

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:02 pm

If Cardiff were in the process of arranging a commercial flight (as they say) and Sala (with advice from 3rd party or not) decided to go for a private flight; it's hardly a correct assertion that "Sala was "abandoned" by Cardiff City and had to arrange his own travel".

Willie McKay isnt helping himself throwing stuff like that out.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:03 pm

LeadBelly wrote:If Cardiff were in the process of arranging a commercial flight (as they say) and Sala (with advice from 3rd party or not) decided to go for a private flight; it's hardly a correct assertion that "Sala was "abandoned" by Cardiff City and had to arrange his own travel".

Willie McKay isnt helping himself throwing stuff like that out.

Which is strange. He's usually very good at helping himself

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:05 pm

Nah- he's just been helping out his son a bit. (honest).

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:11 pm

Nobody looks good coming out of this.

McKay never looks good. Nantes don't look good for chasing the transfer fee so soon after the incident. Cardiff don't look good for appearing to be trying to find loopholes to get out of paying Nantes the transfer fee.

No doubt the legal system will settle things eventually and someone will officially be in the "right", but they all look morally bankrupt to me.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:17 pm

agreenwood wrote:Nobody looks good coming out of this.

McKay never looks good. Nantes don't look good for chasing the transfer fee so soon after the incident. Cardiff don't look good for appearing to be trying to find loopholes to get out of paying Nantes the transfer fee.

No doubt the legal system will settle things eventually and someone will officially be in the "right", but they all look morally bankrupt to me.

Spot on.

The guy’s funeral was last week FFS.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:23 pm

They should just draw a line in the sand. Out of respect. But the "they" won't.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:25 pm

Jeffbfc wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47406109

How do you get out of that one.
Could you say he's got it in first.
Says his son is owed 1.5 mill from Nantes. Not going to chase them for it at the moment.
At the moment all heart.

Its disgraceful what has and is happening regarding the money here and its a shame a respected arbiter cannot rule on the case. In fact its shocking and puts football in an even worse light than it currently is.

Regarding the flight I read that the player was given the option of a commercial flight. If that is true then what an absolute shame he didnt take that option.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:28 pm

Horrible, nasty piece of work.

Joey Barton once told him he didn't need him as an agent anymore.
He found out where he were and went round, pinning him up against the wall until he came back round to his way of thinking.

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:23 pm

"No doubt the legal system will settle things eventually and someone will officially be in the "right", but they all look morally bankrupt to me."

You've nailed it, agreenwood.

Shabby, sordid and, the worst of all, not surprising.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:09 pm

If there was ever any doubt at all that the McKays were 2 self serving, corrupt sharks, then this statement proves it. They're blatantly trying to get their deflecting tactics in first and it stinks because they know when everything shakes down they ain't going to look good! As said, probably nobody will ultimately, but these 2 look guilty as f... to me and this wriggling just confirms it.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:12 pm

agreenwood wrote:Nobody looks good coming out of this.

McKay never looks good. Nantes don't look good for chasing the transfer fee so soon after the incident. Cardiff don't look good for appearing to be trying to find loopholes to get out of paying Nantes the transfer fee.

No doubt the legal system will settle things eventually and someone will officially be in the "right", but they all look morally bankrupt to me.

The legal system and its people are just as corrupt and immoral.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:14 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Horrible, nasty piece of work.

Joey Barton once told him he didn't need him as an agent anymore.
He found out where he were and went round, pinning him up against the wall until he came back round to his way of thinking.

Sorry, you've lost me there.
Who pinned who to the wall?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:34 am

Cardiff's position (although variable) appears currently to be that because Sala arranged his flight through McKay, and because McKay had been appointed by Nantes to act as their agent for the sale, then everything McKay did after the sale was still acting on behalf of Nantes; and therefore if McKay was negligent, then so were Nantes. And that's a case they will presumably have to put to a French court. Seems a bit desperate to me.

Have they abandoned the idea of saying he was never signed by Cardiff, or has that line of approach been dropped?

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:12 am

Cardiff's position is simple : they're refusing to pay what they owe even though they know they owe it. They're trying to make Nantes look bad but Nantes don't look bad. Nobody points the finger at Cardiff for daring to play football matches while this was all going on. Well, guess what, just like the football on the pitch, the off-field bits of the clubs keep working too and Cardiff's position seems to be to keep delaying in the hope that something turns up - even though it's clear that, if anyone, it's certainly not Nantes who might be liable for whatever it is Cardiff have imagined.

jackmiggins · Post by **jackmiggins** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:29 am

This should all be dealt with behind closed doors. I’m afraid it will get rather obscene.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:05 am

jackmiggins wrote:This should all be dealt with behind closed doors. I’m afraid it will get rather obscene.

On the contrary, a bright shining light should be brought to bear on this matter, to rid the game of these parasites, and introduce a system of licensed agents with agreed fees .... and the clubs should be forbidden from paying an agent .

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:19 am

I have always found Cardiff , their fans, their FA and everything to do with it to be nasty selfish pieces of work.

From only looking for one body to everyone wanting to not pay up the whole saga is just plain horrible. The sooner Cardiff aren’t in the 92 the better for everyone

Oshkoshclaret · Post by **Oshkoshclaret** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:06 am

Willie Mackay has been spinning this story furiously since the day it happened. I believe he knew exactly what he was doing i.e. using an illegal charter operation. Proving that will be more difficult. But you can be sure that he and Dave Henderson (who will almost certainly end up in court over this, especially now his mate Willie Mackay has just thrown him under the bus) are praying that Dave Ibbotson's mobile phone doesn't turn up in the plane wreckage.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:22 am

dsr wrote:Have they abandoned the idea of saying he was never signed by Cardiff, or has that line of approach been dropped?

Yes, they had no problem allowing his name printed on the back of the Arsenal programme alongside the rest of the Cardiff squad, or held up a t-shirt after they scored a goal against Bournemouth proclaiming him to be one of their own, and even allowed t-shirts to be printed saying "forever a Bluebird".

But when it comes to paying the transfer fee. Sorry, never their player.

Totally two-faced.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:22 am

I don't think he knew he was using an illegal charter operation, but he knew that he was using a cheap one.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:41 am

boatshed bill wrote:Sorry, you've lost me there.
Who pinned who to the wall?

Mckay pinned Joey up.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:51 am

It's horrible to say it in these terms, but in any business we're talking about a lot of money. It's not surprising that Nantes are wanting their transfer fee and it's not a surprise that Cardiff are reluctant to pay for an "asset" they don't have. At some point, legal teams and all parties will inevitably need to iron that out.

What is disgusting is the PR games all sides are playing in order to recoup loss and/or take moral high ground in a terrible situation. All of this should be done behind closed doors with some dignity and respect for a young man that has died.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:11 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Mckay pinned Joey up.

Really? Where has this story come from?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:29 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Really? Where has this story come from?

It was told to me a few years ago in conversation about why Joey went to Rangers. They seemed to think agent pressure might be an issue.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:08 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't think he knew he was using an illegal charter operation, but he knew that he was using a cheap one.

Given how his agent speaks, he probably inferred he'd be flying on a Gulfstream V!!!

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:39 pm

Cardiff City plan to tell Fifa deal struck to buy Emiliano Sala became 'null and void'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Are Cardiff fair game for abuse from rival fans during games for how they are acting? Obviously, chanting about the lad dying would be appalling but would directing it at Cardiff be crossing the line?

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:12 pm

So basically, from a Nantes perspective the transfer has been completed and Sala was a registered Cardiff City player.

However, he couldn’t play until the instalments of his signing-on fee had been approved by the Premier League.

So Cardiff are using that as a loophole? Not Nantes problem. They should pay up in my opinion.

I suppose it’s like agreeing to sell your car, only for the new owner to crash it and say he shouldn’t pay you because he bought it for his son who had not passed his test.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:22 pm

claretblue wrote:Cardiff City plan to tell Fifa deal struck to buy Emiliano Sala became 'null and void'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disgusting if they wriggle out of this.

They agreed to sign him.
They unveiled him.
He was named in the program.
He trained with them.
They mourned him.
They 'played'for him.
The only reason he died was because he was flying back to cardiff.

They should do what is morally right. Never mind anything else. And pay up.

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:23 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
They should do what is morally right. Never mind anything else. And pay up.

Bloody hell mate! This is the football industry!

...where you been the last 20 years?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:26 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Disgusting if they wriggle out of this.

They agreed to sign him.
They unveiled him.
He was named in the program.
He trained with them.
They mourned him.
They 'played'for him.
The only reason he died was because he was flying back to cardiff.

They should do what is morally right. Never mind anything else. And pay up.

Looking increasingly likely it was all faux sympathy with scarves, t-shirts, banners etc. proclaiming 'One of our own'.

All in the name of trying to survive in the Premier league no doubt!

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:27 pm

tarkys_ears wrote:Bloody hell mate! This is the football industry!

...where you been the last 20 years?

Contributing to it

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:28 pm

Spijed wrote:Looking increasingly likely it was all faux sympathy with scarves, t-shirts, banners etc. proclaiming 'One of our own'.

All in the name of trying to survive in the Premier league no doubt!

Well im afraid they may get off this time. However karma will come back round. Not to mention people, players, agents and anyone else knowing they arent to be dealt with.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:35 pm

Well, you could say X Y and Z but when it comes down to it you do not know how your own club would deal with this. Any club, not just us.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:43 pm

To be fair, if there was an opportunity to keep £15m, I’d be looking at every possible way too.

However, I dont think Cardiff have a leg to stand on.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:05 pm

claretblue wrote:Cardiff City plan to tell Fifa deal struck to buy Emiliano Sala became 'null and void'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm pretty sure that you can't make a deal to sign a player and then back out of it because you've made a mistake in paying his wages. That's not the selling club's fault.

And they're also wrong in principle about the idea that if every clause in a contract is not fulfilled, then the contract is null and void. That may be true with major clauses, but in the case of minor, administrative clauses, it isn't. And especially, if you sign a contract and then decide you don't like it any more, you can't invalidate it by refusing to complete one of the terms. Obviously I don't know the legal status of this particular clause, but it in principle have to make any difference.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:18 pm

dsr wrote:I'm pretty sure that you can't make a deal to sign a player and then back out of it because you've made a mistake in paying his wages. That's not the selling club's fault.

And they're also wrong in principle about the idea that if every clause in a contract is not fulfilled, then the contract is null and void. That may be true with major clauses, but in the case of minor, administrative clauses, it isn't. And especially, if you sign a contract and then decide you don't like it any more, you can't invalidate it by refusing to complete one of the terms. Obviously I don't know the legal status of this particular clause, but it in principle have to make any difference.

I presume E&OE would apply.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:52 pm

I hope Nantes go to a French court for the non-payment and get awarded £30m.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:57 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:I hope Nantes go to a French court for the non-payment and get awarded £30m.

Sadly i can see a lengthy court case to settle this dispute one way or the other,neither side seems in a mood to compromise.

The only winners in that scenario will be the lawyers as always.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:06 pm

Sad to see but business is business. Looks like it'll have to be settled in court.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:17 pm

tiger76 wrote:The only winners in that scenario will be the lawyers as always.

I'd say Cardiff will feel pretty good as well if they didn't have to pay.

Middle-agedClaret · Post by **Middle-agedClaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:06 am

I really feel - as has been said earlier in this thread - that Cardiff have been beyond hypocritical over this. All that faux emotion and sentiment. A song for them at The Turf:
You welsh on your debts
You welsh on your debts
Cardiff City
You welsh on your debts

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:08 am

Middle-agedClaret wrote:I really feel - as has been said earlier in this thread - that Cardiff have been beyond hypocritical over this. All that faux emotion and sentiment. A song for them at The Turf:
You welsh on your debts
You welsh on your debts
Cardiff City
You welsh on your debts

And then public sentiment crucifies on the double whammy of racism AND lack of sympathy for the dead.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:13 am

the same club that has had virtually every red card they've ever been given rescinded by the welsh FA.
no morals whatsoever

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:26 am

Let's see where the dust settles when it's been thrashed out. I'm not sure why Cardiff would be accused showing lack of sympathy - it's not £15M for Sala's family - it's for Nantes. Since someone is going to have an insurance claim here, if it's not Cardiff because there were issues regarding the completion of the transfer, it will probably be eventually helpful to Nantes for it to be decided properly.

Of course, if it turns out Cardiff are exaggerating failures in trivial clauses simply to avoid any liability - they'll look very grubby. But if they win, that'll have been a reasonable course to take. I see no reason why they should stump up £15M for nothing if Sala was still, technically, Nantes' player.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:32 am

thatdberight wrote:Let's see where the dust settles when it's been thrashed out. I'm not sure why Cardiff would be accused showing lack of sympathy - it's not £15M for Sala's family - it's for Nantes. Since someone is going to have an insurance claim here, if it's not Cardiff because there were issues regarding the completion of the transfer, it will probably be eventually helpful to Nantes for it to be decided properly.

Of course, if it turns out Cardiff are exaggerating failures in trivial clauses simply to avoid any liability - they'll look very grubby. But if they win, that'll have been a reasonable course to take. I see no reason why they should stump up £15M for nothing if Sala was still, technically, Nantes' player.

Why on earth would Cardiff take a picture of Sala holding a Cardiff shirt and publish it if he wasn't their player?