Sharron Davies
Sharron Davies
Says transgender sports people should not compete with females. Martina Navratilova said something similar recently. Fair enough ? Not sure why it’s sparked a row. Should they have their own events and competitions so they are on a level footing ?
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Re: Sharron Davies
Yep. Fair enough.
Male athletes are almost always better/faster/stronger than their female counterparts, no amount of PC testicles will change that.
This is just wrong.
No doubt Davies will be blasted in the same way Navratilova has been.
Male athletes are almost always better/faster/stronger than their female counterparts, no amount of PC testicles will change that.
This is just wrong.
No doubt Davies will be blasted in the same way Navratilova has been.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Struggling to see anything wrong at all in what she's said.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Stone her.
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Re: Sharron Davies
The real issue is that no-one knows. There's certain requirements (testosterone below a certain level for a year or something) before you qualify to take part in women's sports but there haven't been any large scale studies of it.
Although I guess one way of looking at it is that trans athletes have been allowed to compete in women's sports for about the past 15 years or so and the number of olympic/world champions is zero which suggests it may not be a huge advantage.
Although I guess one way of looking at it is that trans athletes have been allowed to compete in women's sports for about the past 15 years or so and the number of olympic/world champions is zero which suggests it may not be a huge advantage.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Its all (about the) B0llocks
Re: Sharron Davies
You can't change physiology.
In the same way that folk with wrong chromosomes were ruled out previously, so should anyone else who fails the sex test.
Otherwise, Russia will be sorting out their next generation of 'female' athletes!
"Young Vlad...I am sorry to tell you that you are not good enough for our Olympic protege scheme. However, you are a nice, fresh faced young man....We can get you to gold medal standard in the women's races...You just need a couple of adjustments,...Olga"
In the same way that folk with wrong chromosomes were ruled out previously, so should anyone else who fails the sex test.
Otherwise, Russia will be sorting out their next generation of 'female' athletes!
"Young Vlad...I am sorry to tell you that you are not good enough for our Olympic protege scheme. However, you are a nice, fresh faced young man....We can get you to gold medal standard in the women's races...You just need a couple of adjustments,...Olga"
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Re: Sharron Davies
She's wrong when she says that transgender people choose to identify as a gender, but there's nothing wrong with the rest of her opinion.
What i'm finding amusing is Blackrod posting yet another thread about transgender people, who he clearly has a problem with, and citing someone who accepts that transgender people exist and if she is an ally of his in this issue.
I wonder why Blackrod is so anti-trans.
What i'm finding amusing is Blackrod posting yet another thread about transgender people, who he clearly has a problem with, and citing someone who accepts that transgender people exist and if she is an ally of his in this issue.
I wonder why Blackrod is so anti-trans.
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Re: Sharron Davies
He once pulled a 6-foot Amazonian stunner in Panama’s but when he got her home he found himself faced with the last turkey in the shop. It’s scarred him for life.Imploding Turtle wrote:
I wonder why Blackrod is so anti-trans.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Here you go againImploding Turtle wrote:She's wrong when she says that transgender people choose to identify as a gender, but there's nothing wrong with the rest of her opinion.
What i'm finding amusing is Blackrod posting yet another thread about transgender people, who he clearly has a problem with, and citing someone who accepts that transgender people exist and if she is an ally of his in this issue.
I wonder why Blackrod is so anti-trans.
If you have a problem or question for someone ask them directly, not the other posters as you frequently do. Politcal animal.
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Re: Sharron Davies
I haven't asked any questions. And in the past when I ask questions people get upset an accuse me of trying to cause an argument. So would you like me to tell you where to go?Stayingup wrote:Here you go again
If you have a problem or question for someone ask them directly, not the other posters as you frequently do. Politcal animal.
Re: Sharron Davies
Suggesting someone is anti transgender is trying to cause an argument.....and you know that.
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Re: Sharron Davies
I wasn't suggesting it. I'm outright saying it. Blackrod is clearly anti-trans.TVC15 wrote:Suggesting someone is anti transgender is trying to cause an argument.....and you know that.
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Re: Sharron Davies
She’s right, and Martina Navratilova was right too.
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Re: Sharron Davies
She is right and there is nothing Transphobic in what she is saying as people are trying to make out.. Some people will do anything to put a stain on people's characters.. Some have even said she should lose her MBE ..
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Re: Sharron Davies
Where in what Sharon says is there any Transphobia....
Sorry but she is absolutely right....
Anyone who says different is Cisgenderphobic
Sorry but she is absolutely right....
Anyone who says different is Cisgenderphobic
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Re: Sharron Davies
Serious question. Are there actually real people who believe that Peter Crouch ought to be allowed to play for England Ladies in the World Cup? It would be a way of extending his career and quite likely winning medals, and if all he has to do is declare himself to be a woman ... ?
It would be simpler to just accept there are four sexes now. There are the old-fashioned two, which have been based on chromosomes since long before anyone had even heard of chromosomes. Y chromosomes and penis - male, no Y chromosome and no penis - female. For purposes such as segregation in sport, which toilets to use, and employment rights, these two sexes haven't changed.
And there are the new sexes, based on what is in the mind. These will not impact sport because if they are allowed to, women's sport will cease to have meaning. On the subject of employment, it will be tricky - Germaine Greer is against some of the ideas because equal opportunity of employment is based on the idea that physically, men and women are different but mentally, they aren't. If the new orthodoxy is that mentally, men and women are more different than they are physically, then the whole logic behind the Sex Discrimination Acts is up the tubes.
It would be simpler to just accept there are four sexes now. There are the old-fashioned two, which have been based on chromosomes since long before anyone had even heard of chromosomes. Y chromosomes and penis - male, no Y chromosome and no penis - female. For purposes such as segregation in sport, which toilets to use, and employment rights, these two sexes haven't changed.
And there are the new sexes, based on what is in the mind. These will not impact sport because if they are allowed to, women's sport will cease to have meaning. On the subject of employment, it will be tricky - Germaine Greer is against some of the ideas because equal opportunity of employment is based on the idea that physically, men and women are different but mentally, they aren't. If the new orthodoxy is that mentally, men and women are more different than they are physically, then the whole logic behind the Sex Discrimination Acts is up the tubes.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Would he have to leave us to do this? My answer depends on that...dsr wrote:Serious question. Are there actually real people who believe that Peter Crouch ought to be allowed to play for England Ladies in the World Cup?
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Re: Sharron Davies
I doubt he would be allowed to be a man on Saturdays and a woman on Sundays. But I don't see any legal objection to him changing to a woman for the World Cup Finals and then switching back to be a man afterwards. Just that he couldn't do it too often or people might get suspicious!thatdberight wrote:Would he have to leave us to do this? My answer depends on that...
Re: Sharron Davies
Well, that plus hormone therapy for a few yearsdsr wrote:Serious question. Are there actually real people who believe that Peter Crouch ought to be allowed to play for England Ladies in the World Cup? It would be a way of extending his career and quite likely winning medals, and if all he has to do is declare himself to be a woman ... ?
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Re: Sharron Davies
It’s a shame you’re not a Blackpool fan Imploding Turtle, you would’ve been introduced to the words, foolish, libellous, permanent and banned by now. Words I hope you become familiar with sooner rather than later.Imploding Turtle wrote:I wasn't suggesting it. I'm outright saying it. Blackrod is clearly anti-trans.
Re: Sharron Davies
Would hormone therapy make him shorter?aggi wrote:Well, that plus hormone therapy for a few years
Anyway, that isn't relevant. As I understand it, the point of a trangender woman is not that she is a man who is planning to undergo hormone therapy or physical changes. She is already a woman even though she has penis, beard, the full traditionally male paraphernalia. Peter Crouch may be a woman right now, and we are just waiting for him to declare it.
Remember the pregnant man a few weeks back? He was legally a man, apparently, but still became pregnant (Lord knows how!) and gave birth, and was sueing to have his (or her, I'm losing track) designation on the birth certificate changed from mother to father. This is what the people who sacked Navratilova are looking for - they want a man (or what old-fashioned people would perceive to be a man) to be able to say "I am a woman" and to compete in the women's section of sporting events.
Last edited by dsr on Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sharron Davies
You're clearly gender-fluidphobic. Who are you to say he/she/it/they/xe/ze can't change identification as often as he/she/it/they/xe/ze wants? And yeah, gender-fluidphobic is a real thing. At least as real as any of the rest of this stuff.dsr wrote:I doubt he would be allowed to be a man on Saturdays and a woman on Sundays. But I don't see any legal objection to him changing to a woman for the World Cup Finals and then switching back to be a man afterwards. Just that he couldn't do it too often or people might get suspicious!
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Re: Sharron Davies
Imploding Turtle wrote:She's wrong when she says that transgender people choose to identify as a gender, but there's nothing wrong with the rest of her opinion.
What i'm finding amusing is Blackrod posting yet another thread about transgender people, who he clearly has a problem with, and citing someone who accepts that transgender people exist and if she is an ally of his in this issue.
I wonder why Blackrod is so anti-trans.
Re: Sharron Davies
I've not seen them saying that they disagree with the IOC rules on trans athletes. Have you got a link for that?dsr wrote:Would hormone therapy make him shorter?
Anyway, that isn't relevant. As I understand it, the point of a trangender woman is not that she is a man who is planning to undergo hormone therapy or physical changes. She is already a woman even though she has penis, beard, the full traditionally male paraphernalia. Peter Crouch may be a woman right now, and we are just waiting for him to declare it.
Remember the pregnant man a few weeks back? He was legally a man, apparently, but still became pregnant (Lord knows how!) and gave birth, and was sueing to have his (or her, I'm losing track) designation on the birth certificate changed from mother to father. This is what the people who sacked Navratilova are looking for - they want a man (or what old-fashioned people would perceive to be a man) to be able to say "I am a woman" and to compete in the women's section of sporting events.
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Re: Sharron Davies
dsr wrote:Would hormone therapy make him shorter?
Anyway, that isn't relevant. As I understand it, the point of a trangender woman is not that she is a man who is planning to undergo hormone therapy or physical changes. She is already a woman even though she has penis, beard, the full traditionally male paraphernalia. Peter Crouch may be a woman right now, and we are just waiting for him to declare it.
Remember the pregnant man a few weeks back? He was legally a man, apparently, but still became pregnant (Lord knows how!) and gave birth, and was sueing to have his (or her, I'm losing track) designation on the birth certificate changed from mother to father. This is what the people who sacked Navratilova are looking for - they want a man (or what old-fashioned people would perceive to be a man) to be able to say "I am a woman" and to compete in the women's section of sporting events.
This is what anti-trans bigotry looks like. Mocking them for their gender dysphoria with **** like this.
There's also the casual bigotry of pretending not to understand that gender dysphoria is about the gender of the mind not matching the sex of the body which runs throughout dsr's bigoted posts, and no doubt his bigoted little mind.
This is the sort of thing we need to be stamping out. This kind of mockery of people who have spent their entire life trying to come to terms with something that the pieces of human garbage who mock them will never understand.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Yes - think of a name for it.Blackrod wrote:Says transgender sports people should not compete with females. Martina Navratilova said something similar recently. Fair enough ? Not sure why it’s sparked a row. Should they have their own events and competitions so they are on a level footing ?
Re: Sharron Davies
Bigoted indeed. You have your opinions, and you consider anyone who disagrees to be unquestionably, irrefutably, wrong. There are only two opinions - the Great Turtle's opinion, and the wrong opinion.Imploding Turtle wrote:This is what anti-trans bigotry looks like. Mocking them for their gender dysphoria with **** like this.
There's also the casual bigotry of pretending not to understand that gender dysphoria is about the gender of the mind not matching the sex of the body which runs throughout dsr's bigoted posts, and no doubt his bigoted little mind.
This is the sort of thing we need to be stamping out. This kind of mockery of people who have spent their entire life trying to come to terms with something that the pieces of human garbage who mock them will never understand.
A pregnant woman is a pregnant woman. Fact. There are two issues here, and I don't know which one you disagree with. One is the scientific one - a person with two X chromosomes, a womb, and a growing baby inside her, is of the gender that gives birth not the gender that impregnates. You like scientific fact - well, that's one.
And the other issue is that through all nations and all languages and all history, those gender differences have been referred to by linguistic terms (different words in other languages, but with the same meaning) "man" and "woman". This "man"/"woman" difference being defined on the basis of the scientific, physical differences mentioned above.
Sport is a physical activity, and science absolutely proves that there are physical differences between male and female which for the purposes of sport must continue to be acknowledged or it means the end of women's sport. These physical differences have a label - "male" "female". End of story. If transgender activists want to confuse the issue by applying the same labels to the different gender categorisations of the "gender of the mind", that is unhelpful. They would be better off inventing new words rather than using an existing word to mean something different.
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Re: Sharron Davies
I'm sick of explaining this to idiots. Just because someone has the physical charactistics of a woman does not mean their gender is female. Therefore it's perfectly possible for someone who has the physical characteristics of a woman but the gender of a man to have a baby, because whether or not someone can grow a baby inside them is not determined by their gender, it's determined by whether they have the physical capability to grow a ******* baby.dsr wrote:Bigoted indeed. You have your opinions, and you consider anyone who disagrees to be unquestionably, irrefutably, wrong. There are only two opinions - the Great Turtle's opinion, and the wrong opinion.
A pregnant woman is a pregnant woman. Fact. There are two issues here, and I don't know which one you disagree with. One is the scientific one - a person with two X chromosomes, a womb, and a growing baby inside her, is of the gender that gives birth not the gender that impregnates. You like scientific fact - well, that's one.
And the other issue is that through all nations and all languages and all history, those gender differences have been referred to by linguistic terms (different words in other languages, but with the same meaning) "man" and "woman". This "man"/"woman" difference being defined on the basis of the scientific, physical differences mentioned above.
Sport is a physical activity, and science absolutely proves that there are physical differences between male and female which for the purposes of sport must continue to be acknowledged or it means the end of women's sport. These physical differences have a label - "male" "female". End of story. If transgender activists want to confuse the issue by applying the same labels to the different gender categorisations of the "gender of the mind", that is unhelpful. They would be better off inventing new words rather than using an existing word to mean something different.
How difficult is that to understand? This isn't my opinion, this is biology. If you disagree with that then you are indeed "unquestionably, irrefutably, wrong".
But even disagreeing with that doesn't make YOU a bigot. What makes you a bigot is mocking transgendered people because they're transgendered. Even if, as i assume you believe, it was a mental illness and not a scientifically-supported condition of gender dysphoria, that still means you're mocking someone you consider to be mentally ill, and that still makes you - well, i'm not allowed to say what it makes you but i think the decent people among us can figure it out.
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Re: Sharron Davies
It’s better having more categories less confusion & controversy.
Re: Sharron Davies
Did somebody open a transgender debate ?Imploding Turtle wrote:This is what anti-trans bigotry looks like. Mocking them for their gender dysphoria with **** like this.
There's also the casual bigotry of pretending not to understand that gender dysphoria is about the gender of the mind not matching the sex of the body which runs throughout dsr's bigoted posts, and no doubt his bigoted little mind.
This is the sort of thing we need to be stamping out. This kind of mockery of people who have spent their entire life trying to come to terms with something that the pieces of human garbage who mock them will never understand.
Not getting involved.
Suerly they will laugh in 500 years at the barbaric mutilation of the human body and focus on fixing the mind.
So everybody is binary!
cue the cape fear theme tune as we dwell on this!
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Re: Sharron Davies
Turtle, without picking arguments and shouting ‘bigot’, do you want to discuss the issues females have with males competing in their sports.
Also, are you not concerned- as many feminists are - that the concept of gender being based on lazy, sexist and outdated stereotypes of what constitutes being a man or woman is actually a backward, regressive and insulting step.
Incidentally I have no issue with anyone transitioning, it’s a short life and you should be happy. My missus is quite the feminist and my daughter plays a lot of sport so i’ve possibly read up on too much from the female / feminist perspective but then it’s not difficult to hear the male view of anything in the world.
Also, are you not concerned- as many feminists are - that the concept of gender being based on lazy, sexist and outdated stereotypes of what constitutes being a man or woman is actually a backward, regressive and insulting step.
Incidentally I have no issue with anyone transitioning, it’s a short life and you should be happy. My missus is quite the feminist and my daughter plays a lot of sport so i’ve possibly read up on too much from the female / feminist perspective but then it’s not difficult to hear the male view of anything in the world.
Re: Sharron Davies
1. I’m not.Imploding Turtle wrote:She's wrong when she says that transgender people choose to identify as a gender, but there's nothing wrong with the rest of her opinion.
What i'm finding amusing is Blackrod posting yet another thread about transgender people, who he clearly has a problem with, and citing someone who accepts that transgender people exist and if she is an ally of his in this issue.
I wonder why Blackrod is so anti-trans.
2. I think it’s a good idea to have separate competitions.
3. You complete clown.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Been trying to follow this one.
I don't see what is wrong with the position of the female athletes who have concerns about this to be honest.
I don't see what is wrong with the position of the female athletes who have concerns about this to be honest.
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Re: Sharron Davies
Don't think you can be somatic female but genetically male and become pregnant naturally. The XY females have streak gonads and are infertile and those with testicular feminisation syndrome are genetically male with testes but develop as females due to insensitivity to testosterone. Both these people could compete as females as they are somatic females.
Reverting to female anatomy from both a male somatic and genetic form will give advantages until the effects of male hormones on muscle mass has faded completely.
Reverting to female anatomy from both a male somatic and genetic form will give advantages until the effects of male hormones on muscle mass has faded completely.
Re: Sharron Davies
Pathetic and libellous IT....fully deserving of a ban if not retracted.Imploding Turtle wrote:I wasn't suggesting it. I'm outright saying it. Blackrod is clearly anti-trans.
Rather than throw out unsubstantiated allegations why don’t you stick to the OP and tell us all what you think is wrong with Sharron Davies’ view.
Re: Sharron Davies
You had me at streak gonads Mdd2 !mdd2 wrote:Don't think you can be somatic female but genetically male and become pregnant naturally. The XY females have streak gonads and are infertile and those with testicular feminisation syndrome are genetically male with testes but develop as females due to insensitivity to testosterone. Both these people could compete as females as they are somatic females.
Reverting to female anatomy from both a male somatic and genetic form will give advantages until the effects of male hormones on muscle mass has faded completely.
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Re: Sharron Davies
She's absolutely right. If they want to compete, it should be with men. Because that's what they are, even if they don't want to be.Blackrod wrote:Says transgender sports people should not compete with females. Martina Navratilova said something similar recently. Fair enough ? Not sure why it’s sparked a row. Should they have their own events and competitions so they are on a level footing ?
Re: Sharron Davies
See post #9TVC15 wrote:Pathetic and libellous IT....fully deserving of a ban if not retracted.
Rather than throw out unsubstantiated allegations why don’t you stick to the OP and tell us all what you think is wrong with Sharron Davies’ view.
Re: Sharron Davies
Cheers - apologies I missed that amongst all the other crap posted !martin_p wrote:See post #9
Re: Sharron Davies
IT - do you not care about womens sport? Do you really think it is ALL about the science? Surely you are smart enough to realise that some people will pretend to take advantage of an opportunity?
An extreme example perhaps but if I were John Isner, I would be tempted to become Joanna Isner for the last couple of years of my career. Joanna would clean up on the womens tour and even Serena would have no chance. The prize money from 8 grand slam titles alone would be close to £20m plus any other tournament Joanna cares to enter.
An extreme example perhaps but if I were John Isner, I would be tempted to become Joanna Isner for the last couple of years of my career. Joanna would clean up on the womens tour and even Serena would have no chance. The prize money from 8 grand slam titles alone would be close to £20m plus any other tournament Joanna cares to enter.
Re: Sharron Davies
Can I point out, for those that haven't read what IT has said, that he's agreed with Sharon Davies on transgender peple competing with women. Some people see and username and want to argue whatever they've said!android wrote:IT - do you not care about womens sport? Do you really think it is ALL about the science? Surely you are smart enough to realise that some people will pretend to take advantage of an opportunity?
An extreme example perhaps but if I were John Isner, I would be tempted to become Joanna Isner for the last couple of years of my career. Joanna would clean up on the womens tour and even Serena would have no chance. The prize money from 8 grand slam titles alone would be close to £20m plus any other tournament Joanna cares to enter.
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Re: Sharron Davies
That's a fair point martin. He didn't help himself though, chucking insults around and having a pop at the poster. It'd be fine to say 'yeah, that's right' regardless of who posts it. I've agreed with plenty of things both the turtle or Rowls have put on here. Even a stopped clock etc..martin_p wrote:Can I point out, for those that haven't read what IT has said, that he's agreed with Sharon Davies on transgender peple competing with women. Some people see and username and want to argue whatever they've said!
Re: Sharron Davies
2019... isn't it fun
Tell you what. Scrap all the genders. No mens or womens, just 1 team.
If your good enough your the right sex.
And you're not allowed to say that wouldn't be fair, otherwise you'll be admitting men and women are different
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Re: Sharron Davies
Fair point Martin, IT agrees with Sharron Davies apart from the bit he disagrees with. I am genuinely curious on 2 points with IT:martin_p wrote:Can I point out, for those that haven't read what IT has said, that he's agreed with Sharon Davies on transgender peple competing with women. Some people see and username and want to argue whatever they've said!
1) Does he really not realise that some people have different motives for choosing their gender - there will be fakers and takers? and
2) Does he agree with me that not only is there "nothing wrong" with what Sharron Davies said but what she said is very, very, very important to protect womens sport.
It's all very well IT leaping on other posters with the usual name calling but he then goes very quiet when questions he does not like are asked.
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Re: Sharron Davies
People have different motives for choosing gender??
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Re: Sharron Davies
Sharron Davies is still bang tidy though, isn’t she?
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Re: Sharron Davies
Is it true that trans have been competing in the olympics for the last 15 years as quoted above? Apart from Fatima Whitbred back in the day who was found to have a "fully functioning penis but female hormones" I've never heard of blokes (no matter how cavalier the term) competing against women. It's a preposterous notion that you can just get your meat and 2 veg lopped off and take a few pills,put a dress on and hey presto you can compete against girls! While I've little doubt a couple on here may well identify as TG seems to me that Sharon Davies is simply talking common sense.
Re: Sharron Davies
I would be very careful of statements like that feller...AlargeClaret wrote:Is it true that trans have been competing in the olympics for the last 15 years as quoted above? Apart from Fatima Whitbred back in the day who was found to have a "fully functioning penis but female hormones" .
Fatima Whitbread is not a man, although she has always had a masculine look about her and at a second glance I probably think that she could be mistaken for a man. Having said that, she was a very successful former British javelin thrower and multiple medal-winner. She was also married to Andrew Norman (an athlete) and they have one son, I think her husband died a few years ago.