Michael Jackson documentary

[Steve1956]

*Spoiler alert* he's a peed.

[Funkydrummer]

Have recorded it - will watch it soon. That's only part one of two.

Can't see there being too many revelations coming out of it, but I stand to be shocked.

[Clarets4me]

Have recorded it - will watch it soon. That's only part one of two. Can't see there being too many revelations coming out of it, but I stand to be shocked.

I'd take a seat if I were you !

[Millertime v1.7]

After watching the documentary i conclude Jackson was indeed a beast

[Tribesmen]

Goodness , it was really hard to watch .

Gary Glitter and this guy were the same if you ask me .

A to Z how to groom a 7 year old child , really sicking .

[Steve1956]

An evil monster...Gullable parents ...money..Holidays...And an innocent 7 year old boy..a recipe for disaster..that was painful to watch.

[Loyalclaret]

Graphic, even before this documentary I can not see how people over the years have defended an adult sleeping alone in a bed with children. Beaten by father, no real childhood etc is not an excuse, even if parts of these two stories were incorrect, an adult doesn’t share a bed with a 7 year old after knowing them for four hours. The parents were blinded, no excuse, what about his minders or the people cleaning up after his sleep overs with kids.

[theroyaldyche]

Simple. He was a pedo

[arise_sir_charge]

Lots of things that didn’t add up to me. By the way, I’m not saying he’s not a paedo but lots of unanswered questions arise from the documentary.

An apparent lack of emotion on the part of the accusers. No emotion showed by any of them until a reference by a sister to leaving her dad behind to go and live in LA. She burst into tear me at that point but until then they’d all spoken without any emotion being shown.

The parents still speaking of Michael Jackson in a very fine manner and using his forename. They were literally gushing about him at points.

No mention of any of the support staff in the Neverland environment. There must have been scores of people working in that environment on a daily basis but they weren’t me mentioned once from memory.

Also why weren’t the parents asked difficult questions?

Finally these two were a huge part of Jackson’s defence and I’d ask why he’d choose two people to support him who’d suffered in the manner they alleged. One slip up under fierce cross examination and he’d have gone to prison for ever. Huge risk to take.

Like I say, I’m not defending him and it was a very hard and graphic watch but I found it all a bit odd.

[joey13]

Lots of things that didn’t add up to me. By the way, I’m not saying he’s not a paedo but lots of unanswered questions arise from the documentary.

An apparent lack of emotion on the part of the accusers. No emotion showed by any of them until a reference by a sister to leaving her dad behind to go and live in LA. She burst into tear me at that point but until then they’d all spoken without any emotion being shown.

The parents still speaking of Michael Jackson in a very fine manner and using his forename. They were literally gushing about him at points.

No mention of any of the support staff in the Neverland environment. There must have been scores of people working in that environment on a daily basis but they weren’t me mentioned once from memory.

Also why weren’t the parents asked difficult questions?

Finally these two were a huge part of Jackson’s defence and I’d ask why he’d choose two people to support him who’d suffered in the manner they alleged. One slip up under fierce cross examination and he’d have gone to prison for ever. Huge risk to take.

Like I say, I’m not defending him and it was a very hard and graphic watch but I found it all a bit odd.

And that is how a paedo manipulates it’s victims , you answered your own questions.

[arise_sir_charge]

No I haven’t.

No amount of manipulation leads to a documentary. 25 years down the line, aimed at outing the wrong doer where the victims and their families behave in the manner they did on this documentary.

I’ve seen countless documentaries about similar things and never have the victims behaved like those on the documentary last night.

That’s what I found odd.

[AlargeClaret]

Certainly a tough watch. I don't think even the most devoted Jacko tin foil hat could doubt he had a deep sexual interest with children and young males.
And though i doubt he ever thougth for one minute he was doing wrong,the fact remains he was highly highly likely a very active pedophile.

Though in mitigation the 2 accusers had both previously sworn on oath and signed sworn affidavits that MJ hadn't ever touched them,and you also have to add into the fact that twice he'd been aquited in court not to mention the huge question of $$$ and the chasing of the Jacko millions from his estate

Nedless to say the Jacko clan will defend him religiously to stave off the inevitable collosul legal bills and lawsuits which will no doubt come by the boatload.A true tragedy in all senses of the word.

[joey13]

No I haven’t.

No amount of manipulation leads to a documentary. 25 years down the line, aimed at outing the wrong doer where the victims and their families behave in the manner they did on this documentary.

I’ve seen countless documentaries about similar things and never have the victims behaved like those on the documentary last night.

That’s what I found odd.

You’re basing your opinion on watching documentaries, I’m basing mine on fact and know how these sick pathetic excuses of a human being operate .

[Rick_Muller]

That’s what I found odd.

I found it a little strange too. My take on it is that they are still "normalising" his behaviour towards them, which is a result of the manipulation and grooming that allegedly took place.

The thing is, for these people and the children involved, MJ lived in a different world to the rest of us where the rules were different and what our society deems as sexual abuse his reality did not. When these children and their families were brought into his world and his reality they absorbed a large part of his belief system and understood/accepted it to be the norm after a long period of manipulation and grooming.

Roll on 25 years and they are still star struck by the fact that MJ was interested in them and they had a relationship with him, however wrong that relationship may have appeared to our society, to them they are still experiencing deep rooted feelings for MJ and as such can appear to still care for him probably because they still do. They will be heavily conflicted in this feeling, and only now later in life when they are brought back into normal society beliefs (whatever normal is... for our western society normal means you dont f#ck kids doesn't it? - there are some societies where this is still regarded to be normal), and whilst they still care for MJ they are now beginning to see that what allegedly happened is now wrong when using their (our) current societal benchmarks for what is right and wrong.

[CoolClaret]

What is scary as the amount of pedophile sympathisers still defending MJ! It's insane; just because he was a supremely talented entertainer doesn't mean he was a massive nonce.

Like stated previously ITT, the way in which he grooms is textbook ; rewarding with gifts, 'you can't tell anyone because we won't be able to see each other again'.. Shocking.

Amazing songs, amazing artist, absolute turbo nonce.

[thatdberight]

Gary Glitter and this guy were the same if you ask me .

You could be right. You never saw them both in the same place at the same time.

[conyoviejo]

I blame the parents .. Who on earth would let their young child sleep with a grown man..

[Reckoner]

I don't think the Boogie is free from blame

[ClaretTony]

Was, as said above, a difficult watch, but, like arise_sir_charge, I did find the lack of emotion from the two very strange.

There was a time when I thought Michael Jackson was just a bit weird but that opinion changed a long time ago. If one fraction of what is said about him is true then he's the lowest of the low.

[Hibsclaret]

I don't think the Boogie is free from blame

I just can’t control my . . . .

As others have said all a bit strange. You would have thought the family would show some signs of remorse, anger or frankly something other than what they show.

He was the lowest of the low and the whole thing smells of payoffs and controlled matter of fact statements to appease any potential backlashes.

All a bit strange.

[Steve1956]

The Australian woman pimped her 7 old son out to a paedo,now that's what I find strange

[NottsClaret]

Fortunately for MJ, he was talented enough to get away with being a nonce. And remember that fella who was doing 'research' on child porn for a book.. still not come out yet that. But he was in The Who, and they were ace, so let's leave that one.

Gary Glitter was a bit s**te though, so he's bang to rights. There's a talent threshold for being a guilty paedo and luckily for Jackson, he was above it. Mark him down as eccentric instead.

[Steve1956]

Fortunately for MJ, he was talented enough to get away with being a nonce. And remember that fella who was doing 'research' on child porn for a book.. still not come out yet that. But he was in The Who, and they were ace, so let's leave that one.

Gary Glitter was a bit s**te though, so he's bang to rights. There's a talent threshold for being a guilty paedo and luckily for Jackson, he was above it. Mark him down as eccentric instead.

Yea an eccentric paedophile!

[Billy Balfour]

What was described in the documentary is the classic modus operandi of a paedophile. I can't understand how some people defend him to this day. They wouldn't do the same if MJ had been a millionaire businessman and not a millionaire pop star.

[Hibsclaret]

Fortunately for MJ, he was talented enough to get away with being a nonce. And remember that fella who was doing 'research' on child porn for a book.. still not come out yet that. But he was in The Who, and they were ace, so let's leave that one.

Gary Glitter was a bit s**te though, so he's bang to rights. There's a talent threshold for being a guilty paedo and luckily for Jackson, he was above it. Mark him down as eccentric instead.

Totally agree with the talent threshold. You would have to say that having deeper pockets ala Jackson, Townshend etc is the most important thing to keep the right people on side and quiet etc. Money talks more than anything else but also take the point about a businessman not having the same level of public opinion to keep onside given such circumstances.

You only have to look at the length of time taken for the Weinstein stuff to come out to see what people with the deepest pockets can get away with for many years

[arise_sir_charge]

What was described in the documentary is the classic modus operandi of a paedophile. I can't understand how some people defend him to this day. They wouldn't do the same if MJ had been a millionaire businessman and not a millionaire pop star.

Exactly Billy, "Classic" MO, which is why it's not beyond the realms of possibility that what the two lads are saying is totally made up. You know the MO, I know the MO, they know the MO so make a story that fits the MO.

I find any notion that he only get's away with it because he is famous bizarre also. There are plenty of famous Paedo's or sex pests behind bars.

For what it's worth, I am not going to sit here and protest his innocence as I don't know if he was innocent or not and I'm not in any way a fan of his in any event. It goes without saying that some of his behaviour was odd in the extreme. I will also say that I expect that those that brought the original Court actions did so on the right grounds. However, I just felt that the two in the documentary last night and their families had stories riddled with holes and so personally I'm not buying what they said as individuals.

[Hibsclaret]

The two lads themselves seemed a lot more believable than the families in my view. But like most things like this none of us will ever know exactly what went on.

[thatdberight]

Fortunately for MJ, he was talented enough to get away with being a nonce. And remember that fella who was doing 'research' on child porn for a book.. still not come out yet that. But he was in The Who, and they were ace, so let's leave that one.

Gary Glitter was a bit s**te though, so he's bang to rights. There's a talent threshold for being a guilty paedo and luckily for Jackson, he was above it. Mark him down as eccentric instead.

If you believe Jackson was better than Glitter, you're sadly mistaken.

The Townshend thing was very strange and there was a whole back story to it. However, the police offered him a caution and he took it, Sex Offenders' Register for 5 years I think it was. The fact it was limited to 5 years and a caution probably says something about the level. I don't think he got away with it.

[Hibsclaret]

Interesting to compare Glitter and Jackson tbh.

I was in a shop a couple of months ago and one of Glitters songs was on and me and the Mrs both commented that it felt like bad taste. If it had of been a Jacko song we probably wouldn’t have even discussed it.

Perhaps this says something about the media affect and how the general public view both of them.

[Burnley Ace]

Interesting to compare Glitter and Jackson tbh.

I was in a shop a couple of months ago and one of Glitters songs was on and me and the Mrs both commented that it felt like bad taste. If it had of been a Jacko song we probably wouldn’t have even discussed it.

Perhaps this says something about the media affect and how the general public view both of them.

Or it could be that Glitter is a convicted offender whose guilt has been proved beyond reasonable doubt and Jackson isn’t.

[willsclarets]

I agree. As powerful and disturbing the testimonies are, the FBI compiled a 300+ page document finding no evidence of child abuse following the failed 1.5 billion dollar lawsuit of these two. Add to that the previous testimonies up to his death in 2005 which were directly in contradiction, and I have to say there's elements of doubt, at least about physical sexual abuse. I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just less inclined to convict him beyond any doubt following last night.

[tiger76]

Totally agree with the talent threshold. You would have to say that having deeper pockets ala Jackson, Townshend etc is the most important thing to keep the right people on side and quiet etc. Money talks more than anything else but also take the point about a businessman not having the same level of public opinion to keep onside given such circumstances.

You only have to look at the length of time taken for the Weinstein stuff to come out to see what people with the deepest pockets can get away with for many years

Money is an issue here clearly,but many of these paedophiles are also in positions of power,Weinstein could make or break a young actresses career,in MJ'S case he had a powerful law team behind him,and could palm people off with 50 pieces of silver,if it was one of my children/family alleging such behaviour,money would be irrelevant,i'd want the barstool banged up.

The Weinstein case is remarkably similar to the many football coaches who are now being found guilty of historical sexual abuse,they held the player's entire future in their hands,and you have to remember most of this abuse was pre-internet days,so was much easier to hush up.

I haven't seen the Jackson Documentary yet,but have listened to some radio phone-in's this morning,and the detailed corroborative evidence both men presented seems damning,yes both have been in court before and said differently,but they appear genuine,and now MJ is dead they might find it easier to speak out.

There is a 2nd part tonight so maybe they will be further revelations,or maybe there will be a rebuttal from the Jackson side.

But when so many people are saying essentially the same thing,you have to conclude there is merit in their argument somewhere.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Certainly a tough watch. I don't think even the most devoted Jacko tin foil hat could doubt he had a deep sexual interest with children and young males.
And though i doubt he ever thougth for one minute he was doing wrong,the fact remains he was highly highly likely a very active pedophile.

Though in mitigation the 2 accusers had both previously sworn on oath and signed sworn affidavits that MJ hadn't ever touched them,and you also have to add into the fact that twice he'd been aquited in court not to mention the huge question of $$$ and the chasing of the Jacko millions from his estate

Nedless to say the Jacko clan will defend him religiously to stave off the inevitable collosul legal bills and lawsuits which will no doubt come by the boatload.A true tragedy in all senses of the word.

I'm running a twitter campaign to have his music banned from radio stations worldwide.

You can join me by retweeting my posts and using the hashtag #BanMichaelJackson.

This guy was horrific.

[Guich]

I thought his music was crap anyway.

[tim_noone]

I blame the parents .. Who on earth would let their young child sleep with a grown man..

Wasn't keen on MJ....nor am I keen on the thousands of British Blokes Going to Thailand in groups.....weirdos.

[willsclarets]

Money is an issue here clearly,but many of these paedophiles are also in positions of power,Weinstein could make or break a young actresses career,in MJ'S case he had a powerful law team behind him,and could palm people off with 50 pieces of silver,if it was one of my children/family alleging such behaviour,money would be irrelevant,i'd want the barstool banged up.

The Weinstein case is remarkably similar to the many football coaches who are now being found guilty of historical sexual abuse,they held the player's entire future in their hands,and you have to remember most of this abuse was pre-internet days,so was much easier to hush up.

I haven't seen the Jackson Documentary yet,but have listened to some radio phone-in's this morning,and the detailed corroborative evidence both men presented seems damning,yes both have been in court before and said differently,but they appear genuine,and now MJ is dead they might find it easier to speak out.

There is a 2nd part tonight so maybe they will be further revelations,or maybe there will be a rebuttal from the Jackson side.

But when so many people are saying essentially the same thing,you have to conclude there is merit in their argument somewhere.

Again from an objective point of view, they filed a massive lawsuit one after the other. It's not beyond the realms of possibility there's a reason behind corroboration. Again, I'm not saying this is definitively not true. But neither is it definitively true, either. And, "so many people" in terms of children he spent a lot of time with, well the vast majority said nothing happened.

He was clearly a man lost in a childlike world, and had relationships and interactions that were at least inappropriate eg sharing a bed. But it's not conclusive that he was physically abusive.

[CoolClaret]

Sad state of affairs really when I guess a lot of people that defend MJ on the premises of 'its not prooven' are the same ones that bash Trump with a stick on countless false accusations (and accusations that are nowhere near as severe/abhorrebt/evil as child molesting)....

People also point to the American justice system as though its some sort of perfect system - OJ got found not guilty ffs was he innocent?

[Blackrod]

Haven’t seen this but heard a phone in about it and watched the one on years ago about the same thing. I hate paedos and would string them all up but with this he is an easy target. He’s not here to defend himself and I think he was more of a grown man in a child’s world. He was odd and his behaviour was odd but that doesn’t mean he was a paedo. He was robbed of a childhood and was maybe trying relive it. The accusers and money grabbing families all seem a bit dubious. Not convinced on this one.

[tim_noone]

Sad state of affairs really when I guess a lot of people that defend MJ on the premises of 'its not prooven' are the same ones that bash Trump with a stick on countless false accusations (and accusations that are nowhere near as severe/abhorrebt/evil as child molesting)....

People also point to the American justice system as though its some sort of perfect system - OJ got found not guilty ffs was he innocent?

If he was found not guilty I guess he was Innocent........but I have my doubts.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Haven’t seen this but heard a phone in about it and watched the one on years ago about the same thing. I hate paedos and would string them all up but with this he is an easy target. He’s not here to defend himself and I think he was more of a grown man in a child’s world. He was odd and his behaviour was odd but that doesn’t mean he was a paedo. He was robbed of a childhood and was maybe trying relive it. The accusers and money grabbing families all seem a bit dubious. Not convinced on this one.

Because you haven't seen it.

Trust me, when you've seen it you'll be wanting to "string him up", the things he did are literally horrific.

[Rick_Muller]

Because you haven't seen it.

Trust me, when you've seen it you'll be wanting to "string him up", the things he allegedly did are literally horrific.

Helped you out there, because no one can confirm the allegations of these people as he is dead.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Helped you out there, because no one can confirm the allegations of these people as he is dead.

Like Jimmy Saville? He was dead too when it all came out.

Obviously, another person who hasn't seen it, he was as guilty as sin.

[arise_sir_charge]

Like Jimmy Saville? He was dead too when it all came out.

Obviously, another person who hasn't seen it, he was as guilty as sin.

I hope you’re never on a jury if I’m in Court! Listen to the prosecution case.....guilty!

Fundamental difference between Jackson and Jimmy Saville. Saville was never subject to a trial in which he was found not guilty.

[Rick_Muller]

Like Jimmy Saville? He was dead too when it all came out.

Obviously, another person who hasn't seen it, he was as guilty as sin.

Please don’t misunderstand my position on this. Paedophilia is abhorrent, and I did watch the program last night. I saw excerpts of information from the past that were used to sensationalise one side of a story where we cannot corroborate what was actually stated. As I said, the other party is dead and cannot defend himself.

In reference to Jimmy Savile, since the allegations about him where first raised actual eye witnesses of him performing abhorrent actions came forward to corroborate the allegations, so that is different and cannot be used in comparison.

I am not saying MJ is not guilty, nor am I saying he is, I am merely stating that no one has yet offered evidence that can be corroborated and as such I am remaining open minded about it.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

I hope you’re never on a jury if I’m in Court! Listen to the prosecution case.....guilty!

Fundamental difference between Jackson and Jilly Saville. Saville was never subject to a trial in which he was found not guilty.

...and another person who hasn't seen it. Watch it and tell me he's (even possibly) not guilty.

[arise_sir_charge]

...and another person who hasn't seen it. Watch it and tell me he's (even possibly) not guilty.

I watched it. I have already said on this thread that I watched it and I’ve also given reasons why I found the whole documentary very odd.

There was zero evidence to corroborate his guilt in that 3 hour doc last night.

[arise_sir_charge]

That’s not me saying he isn’t guilty by the way just pointing out that last night doesn’t give any evidence to suggest he is.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Please don’t misunderstand my position on this. Paedophilia is abhorrent, and I did watch the program last night. I saw excerpts of information from the past that were used to sensationalise one side of a story where we cannot corroborate what was actually stated. As I said, the other party is dead and cannot defend himself.

In reference to Jimmy Savile, since the allegations about him where first raised actual eye witnesses of him performing abhorrent actions came forward to corroborate the allegations, so that is different and cannot be used in comparison.

I am not saying MJ is not guilty, nor am I saying he is, I am merely stating that no one has yet offered evidence that can be corroborated and as such I am remaining open minded about it.

Pedophiles don't get convicted due to witnesses, they don't do it in broad daylight in front of people, they are convicted on the testimonies of their victims, which is what this documentary is. There are now at least four people saying he sexually abused them as children and the facts are corroborated in their descriptions of what he did and made them do.

Anyway, there is a witness, the woman who cleaned his bedroom...

"“Michael would have his underwear floating in the water and the little boys’ underwear floating in the water together,” she said. “If they weren’t floating in the water, they were outside on the floor around the Jacuzzi. So I would find stuff like that.”

[thelifeofbrian]

*Spoiler alert* he's a peed.

i HEARD ITS A THRILLER!!

[Inchy]

I wonder if all these people defending Jackson would allow him to baby sit their kids?

Probably not.....because he’s dead