Anti semetism

[Chobulous]

Stunned silence from the Sparts

[TheFamilyCat]

Decisive action from Sir Keir to suspend Corbyn.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how the party reacts to that. Now, more than ever with this mob in charge, strong opposition is badly needed.

[KateR]

never let a good crisis go to waste, and remember attack is the best form of self defense.

[aggi]

To quote Rowls, feel free to post instances of islamaphobia in the Conservative Party on the "islamaphobia in the Conservative party" thread.
Otherwise you could be accused of defending anti-semitism in the Labour Party, by trying to divert the conversation

My post was somewhat flippant.

Although I am strongly of the belief that both parties need to get their houses in order because otherwise you get people using not being as Islamaphobic/Anti-semitic as the other side as an excuse to do nothing about the Anti-semitism/Islamophobia which is a pathetic excuse.

[AndrewJB]

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sit ... -party.pdf

The report in full. It says there were incidences (it gives an exact number in the report) in which Corbyn (or his staff) interfered in cases of alleged anti-Semitism. There’s no more detail on this though.

[LeadBelly]

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sit ... -party.pdf

The report in full. It says there were incidences (it gives an exact number in the report) in which Corbyn (or his staff) interfered in cases of alleged anti-Semitism. There’s no more detail on this though.

Yes it gives numbers, bottom of Page 43:
"Within the sample of 70 complaint files, we found 23 instances of political
interference. This interference happened at various stages of the complaints
process and sometimes more than once in a case."

They also found three breaches of the Equality Act

Weird how Shami Chakrabarti missed all these instances when she investigated anti-semitism in the party and found nothing (just before being given a peerage on Jessa's recommendation).

[dermotdermot]

Corbyn won't apologize or back down. In his eyes he can do no wrong and so he will have to be kicked out of the party. One or two others might resign in protest. The likes of Dawn Butler, Barry Gardner and McDonnell can form their own little party and see how they get on at the next election. I, for one, will be just so glad to see the back of that miserable little sponger who has dragged the Labour Party to the depths of despair.

[NottsClaret]

Saw a good line today.. “... and all forms of racism” is the far left’s version of “... and All Lives Matter”.

They won’t like it but see if they can talk about anti-semitism without tagging it on.

[AndrewJB]

Yes it gives numbers, bottom of Page 43:
"Within the sample of 70 complaint files, we found 23 instances of political
interference. This interference happened at various stages of the complaints
process and sometimes more than once in a case."

They also found three breaches of the Equality Act

Weird how Shami Chakrabarti missed all these instances when she investigated anti-semitism in the party and found nothing (just before being given a peerage on Jessa's recommendation).

If those instance happened after 2016, Chakrabarti would have struggled to catch them.

[LeadBelly]

Somebody started a crowdfund page for Corbyn this summer to fight a legal case against John Ware.

The Labour party fully apologised and gave damages to Ware after they had first claimed that he invented quotes, flouted journalistic ethics and… knowingly promoted falsehoods in a Panorama prog he did about the party's anti-semitism. Corbyn subsequently came out and said he was disappointed by the apology and that " it risks giving credibility to misleading and inaccurate allegations” about action to tackle anti-Semitism in the party."

The fund passed £300,000 a while ago and has had a renewed level of donations today- presumably from people who align themselves to Jezza rather than the party and cant work out that today's report makes what Corbyn said just about indefensible.

For Jezza fans here who think the anti-semitism malarky is a wicked invention of the media/ the Tories etc; you can donate at

https://uk.gofundme.com/f/47gyy-jeremy039s-legal-fund

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Good move by Starmer. In 4 years time voters will have forgotten he was in the shadow cabinet with Corbyn and he’ll be leading a party that will appeal more to those middle ground voters. Pretty much the same as when voters forgot about Johnson’s comments or Patel secretly meeting the Israelis or Williamson leaking confidential information etc etc.

[android]

I think the telling words in Corbyn's statement today is where he said that sometimes antisemitism "is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left". He could never get his head round the fact that people on the left could be antisemitic. In his view, if people had the correct left wing views then they could not possibly be antisemitic. If he had ever been able to write that sentence without the words "think of themselves as" then he might not have had a problem.

[tiger76]

My post was somewhat flippant.

Although I am strongly of the belief that both parties need to get their houses in order because otherwise you get people using not being as Islamaphobic/Anti-semitic as the other side as an excuse to do nothing about the Anti-semitism/Islamophobia which is a pathetic excuse.

Credit where credit is due Starmer has accepted all the reports recommendations, and he's promised swift action, which is the way to deal with any such problems, maybe if Jeremy Corbyn had rooted out all the anti-Semites before it got to this stage the Labour party might have recovered it's moral compass, however he didn't and he's still making excuses for any such behaviour, unfortunately he left KS no option but to remove the whip, whether this will spark a civil war in the Labour party time will tell, but in the long run it might be better for Labour if they resolve this issue now, however that comes about, and then they can focus all their energies into providing a robust opposition, and hopefully in 4 years or so a viable alternative to the present government.

I await with interest the Conservatives own enquiry into the alleged Islamophobia within their ranks, after all if they have nothing to hide they'll want to absolve themselves of any allegations won't they, and I certainly recall Boris Johnson and others promising such an inquiry during the Conservative leadership hustings, they now appear to have collective amnesia funny that.

It's depressing that both our major parties are besieged by claims of Anti-Semitism in Labour's case, and Islamophobia in the Conservative's case, it's not a good look for our democracy or our international standing in the world.

[TVC15]

Great post tiger - spot on summary that

[UnderSeige]

Majid Nawaz on why Anti-Semitism is by far the worst form of Racism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAje_NjRsX8

[UnderSeige]

Credit where credit is due Starmer has accepted all the reports recommendations, and he's promised swift action, which is the way to deal with any such problems, maybe if Jeremy Corbyn had rooted out all the anti-Semites before it got to this stage the Labour party might have recovered it's moral compass, however he didn't and he's still making excuses for any such behaviour, unfortunately he left KS no option but to remove the whip, whether this will spark a civil war in the Labour party time will tell, but in the long run it might be better for Labour if they resolve this issue now, however that comes about, and then they can focus all their energies into providing a robust opposition, and hopefully in 4 years or so a viable alternative to the present government.

I await with interest the Conservatives own enquiry into the alleged Islamophobia within their ranks, after all if they have nothing to hide they'll want to absolve themselves of any allegations won't they, and I certainly recall Boris Johnson and others promising such an inquiry during the Conservative leadership hustings, they now appear to have collective amnesia funny that.

It's depressing that both our major parties are besieged by claims of Anti-Semitism in Labour's case, and Islamophobia in the Conservative's case, it's not a good look for our democracy or our international standing in the world.

I think that it requires something akin to 'Neal Kinnock dealing with militant' or the 'Gang of Four resigning and forming their own party'.

[AndrewJB]

I think the telling words in Corbyn's statement today is where he said that sometimes antisemitism "is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left". He could never get his head round the fact that people on the left could be antisemitic. In his view, if people had the correct left wing views then they could not possibly be antisemitic. If he had ever been able to write that sentence without the words "think of themselves as" then he might not have had a problem.

You’ve only quoted part of the statement, which was preceded by: “Anyone claiming there is no anti-Semitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, just as there is throughout society...” And then goes on to say what you’ve quoted, which in context is to say that people on the left who don’t consider themselves anti-Semitic, sometimes say anti-Semitic things.

Whatever his many faults, he’s unequivocally admitting the existence of anti-Semites within the Labour Party.

More of what he actually said below:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -in-labour

[Rowls]

I think Sir Kier’s taken the right response here.

Such a shame the Corbynista zealots can’t see it.

[android]

You’ve only quoted part of the statement, which was preceded by: “Anyone claiming there is no anti-Semitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, just as there is throughout society...” And then goes on to say what you’ve quoted, which in context is to say that people on the left who don’t consider themselves anti-Semitic, sometimes say anti-Semitic things.

Whatever his many faults, he’s unequivocally admitting the existence of anti-Semites within the Labour Party.

More of what he actually said below:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -in-labour

Yes, I wasn't trying to quote him out of context. My reading is that where he admits that it existed in the party it would be from the odd rogue centrist. I came to the view that he thought that proper lefties, who shared his world view, simply could not be guilty of antisemitism, which is why I quoted the bit I did. It's actually why I changed my view of him. At one point I started to think he was personally anti-semitic but I ended up giving him the benefit of the doubt personally and thinking he just could not get his head around it. Anyway, only my opinion and not something I could ever prove or disprove.

I am aiming to take a short break from this board (taking up too much time) so apologies in advance if you reply and I don't.

[AndrewJB]

Majid Nawaz on why Anti-Semitism is by far the worst form of Racism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAje_NjRsX8

A hierarchy of racism. From Majid Nawaz, who on twitter has defended the use of the term “cultural Marxism” - which is deeply anti-Semitic.

Racism is bad. It should be opposed wherever and however it rears it’s head.

[ClaretDiver]

Well.....after reading a number of reports on todays actions it seems that Labour may just have handed the next GE to the Tories...

[Swizzlestick]

Well.....after reading a number of reports on todays actions it seems that Labour may just have handed the next GE to the Tories...

I don’t think this as quite as much traction with the electorate as you think.

[AndrewJB]

Yes, I wasn't trying to quote him out of context. My reading is that where he admits that it existed in the party it would be from the odd rogue centrist. I came to the view that he thought that proper lefties, who shared his world view, simply could not be guilty of antisemitism, which is why I quoted the bit I did. It's actually why I changed my view of him. At one point I started to think he was personally anti-semitic but I ended up giving him the benefit of the doubt personally and thinking he just could not get his head around it. Anyway, only my opinion and not something I could ever prove or disprove.

I am aiming to take a short break from this board (taking up too much time) so apologies in advance if you reply and I don't.

I hope your break is productive, and you return.

You might be right in your assessment. I thought it appropriate to point out his wider statement for greater clarity.

UTC

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I don’t think this as quite as much traction with the electorate as you think.

All depends on what happens next.

Corbyn could bugger off and form a new party with his cronies and I suspect they'd have sizeable support.

He's not really shown much in the way of contrition has he?

[nil_desperandum]

Well.....after reading a number of reports on todays actions it seems that Labour may just have handed the next GE to the Tories...

If this is the most important thing on people's minds in about 4 years time I'll be absolutely staggered.
I doubt it will even be a big story by next summer if Starmer follows through on his promises today.

[AndrewJB]

I think Sir Kier’s taken the right response here.

Such a shame the Corbynista zealots can’t see it.

Are people who continue to believe in Boris Johnson, despite his lies, utter failures, and absence of leadership in these dark times also zealots?

[Swizzlestick]

All depends on what happens next.

Corbyn could bugger off and form a new party with his cronies and I suspect they'd have sizeable support.

He's not really shown much in the way of contrition has he?

This is not new behaviour for JC. He was voting against party whip in the Blair era. Starmer knows he has to draw a line under it and he knows they’ll be a bit of handbags from the left. See also the Europhile / sceptic split in the Tories. Comes with the territory. No chance they’ll form a splinter party - power is power, and they’re full aware a split vote would hand it to the Tories. Starmer knows exactly what he’s doing. And as I say, this issue, as serious as it is in isolation, isn’t going to be on the radar of the red wall up north, Mondeo man etc.

[dermotdermot]

They won’t form a splinter party. They’ll just try to cling to the Labour Party like the leeches they are.

I see that McCluskey’s on the warpath already.

[RingoMcCartney]

From one year ago before today's U-turn and since his opportunistic career move! -

https://antisemitism.org/keir-starmer-t ... isemitism/


Sir Keir Starmer, the Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, has insisted that he is “100% behind Jeremy Corbyn…I am working with Jeremy Corbyn to win the next general election.”


From the man that kept schtum while at the shadow cabinet table, while all this was going on.

[AndrewJB]

They won’t form a splinter party. They’ll just try to cling to the Labour Party like the leeches they are.

I see that McCluskey’s on the warpath already.

Let’s play “Leech or Member” - my go first: Kitty Usher?

[Colburn_Claret]

Well.....after reading a number of reports on todays actions it seems that Labour may just have handed the next GE to the Tories...

I dont think the Labour 'Party', truly reflects the demographic of traditional Labour 'Supporters'.
No matter how much blood is let within the Party, it will sit well with the vast majority of Supporters.
The next GE is now more likely to be fought on policy rather than personalities. In that case it is all to fight for.

[Spijed]

Are people who continue to believe in Boris Johnson, despite his lies, utter failures, and absence of leadership in these dark times also zealots?

And let's not forget the appointment of Claire Fox to the house of Lords by Boris. I wonder what his supporters on here think of that?

https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/statu ... 5255959552

[dermotdermot]

Let’s play “Leech or Member” - my go first: Kitty Usher?

My go next.

Corbyn = leech!

[dermotdermot]

And an extremely slimey one as well.

[Taffy on the wing]

Majid Nawaz on why Anti-Semitism is by far the worst form of Racism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAje_NjRsX8

Is he Jewish? Did he convert?
I didn't watch the clip, i've seen & heard him before.
But i believe that Anti-Semitism is often confused with Anti-Zionism or the actions of theJewish State.
I have and have had Jewish friends, None of them are comfortable with what is happening to the Palestinian people.
I don't understand how anyone could be.............maybe some of you Trumpers out there could explain it to me.

Most of the problems in the middle-East are caused by Israel's barbaric treatment of the Palestinian people!

[LeadBelly]

Re previous post's "Most of the problems in the middle-East are caused by Israel's barbaric treatment of the Palestinian people!"

Syria has been a very big Middle Eastern problem over recent years:
Over 250,000 fighters killed; over 100,000 civilians killed (some estimates put total deaths at c 500,000)
7,500,000 people displaced internally, 5,000,000 + refugees fled the country.

What part has Israel played in this?

What about the current Saudi v Yemen conflict?

A bit longer ago Iran v Iraq 8 year war in which over 500,000 military died and maybe 100,000 civilians.
Iraq's invasion of Kuwait which kicked off the 1st Gulf War .
Turkey v Kurds ongoing.
Internal conflict/suppression in Iran.

[bobinho]

Are people who continue to believe in Boris Johnson, despite his lies, utter failures, and absence of leadership in these dark times also zealots?

They probably are Andrew, yes. But it doesn’t change the fact that this board has been rife with people who absolutely refused to believe the anti semitism was nothing more than poison spread by Corbyns political opponents. Do I remember you being one of them? I’m sure I do, so how do you now reconcile?

I must say, I have been enjoying this thread. Lots of learning for me.

[bobinho]

From one year ago before today's U-turn and since his opportunistic career move! -

https://antisemitism.org/keir-starmer-t ... isemitism/


Sir Keir Starmer, the Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, has insisted that he is “100% behind Jeremy Corbyn…I am working with Jeremy Corbyn to win the next general election.”


From the man that kept schtum while at the shadow cabinet table, while all this was going on.

He’s a politician ringo.... he will say whatever he needs to do to survive. He was then protecting himself by ensuring he had a cabinet role if labour had won, he’s now protecting himself by distancing himself from Corbyn and his refusal to act on the problems that were purely an invention of the right wing press.

However it’s come about, surely this is a step in the right direction for labour don’t you think?

[UnderSeige]

A hierarchy of racism. From Majid Nawaz, who on twitter has defended the use of the term “cultural Marxism” - which is deeply anti-Semitic.

Racism is bad. It should be opposed wherever and however it rears it’s head.

Haven't you just used the term?

I agree with your point that racism is bad though. It is much more than bad it is evil and dehumanises certain groups within society as Majid explained.

[Rowls]

Are people who continue to believe in Boris Johnson, despite his lies, utter failures, and absence of leadership in these dark times also zealots?

People who support Boris unflinchingly could be classed as zealots in a similar way.

However, that would be off topic.

If you want to start a thread about that feel free but this is the thread where we discuss anti-sémitismes in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party and the continuing fallout from it.

[RingoMcCartney]

He’s a politician ringo.... he will say whatever he needs to do to survive. He was then protecting himself by ensuring he had a cabinet role if labour had won, he’s now protecting himself by distancing himself from Corbyn and his refusal to act on the problems that were purely an invention of the right wing press.

However it’s come about, surely this is a step in the right direction for labour don’t you think?

This the "right wing press" Daily Mirror,
reporting on Jewish labour MPs needing police protection while attending the annual labour conference.

Pure "invention" eh!?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... d-13298354

"Jewish MP Luciana Berger flanked by police protection at Labour conference after months of antisemitic threats."

And Keir " nothing to do with me Guv'nor " Starmer was absolutely silent. To little too late.

[bobinho]

This the "right wing press" Daily Mirror,
reporting on Jewish labour MPs needing police protection while attending the annual labour conference.

Pure "invention" eh!?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... d-13298354

"Jewish MP Luciana Berger flanked by police protection at Labour conference after months of antisemitic threats."

And Keir " nothing to do with me Guv'nor " Starmer was absolutely silent. To little too late.

By referencing the “right wing press” I was merely quoting the resident corbynistas on here, who repeatedly denied there was an issue, blaming it on a witch hunt by the media.

Seems like there was something in it after all....

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Most of the problems in the middle-East are caused by Israel's barbaric treatment of the Palestinian people!

No one could say that and be genuinely serious.... Could they???

[Spijed]

This the "right wing press" Daily Mirror,
reporting on Jewish labour MPs needing police protection while attending the annual labour conference.

Pure "invention" eh!?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... d-13298354

"Jewish MP Luciana Berger flanked by police protection at Labour conference after months of antisemitic threats."

And Keir " nothing to do with me Guv'nor " Starmer was absolutely silent. To little too late.

Too little

[aggi]

People who support Boris unflinchingly could be classed as zealots in a similar way.

However, that would be off topic.

If you want to start a thread about that feel free but this is the thread where we discuss anti-sémitismes in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party and the continuing fallout from it.

Your attempts to keep this thread on the path that you want are admirable (admittedly it's a little curious why you're only worried about doing it on this thread and none of the others on the board) but given the lack of reference to Jeremy Corbyn in the title or original post it seems a bit strange.

[Devils_Advocate]

I think this ladies thread and the article she has written articulate my views far better than I could myself

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1322 ... 25856.html

https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2020/august/ ... d-the-ehrc

[Woodleyclaret]

A good stance by Starmer let's hope he can now concentrate on homelessnes . Unemployment and Covid issues that actually concerns most of the population

[Taffy on the wing]

No one could say that and be genuinely serious.... Could they???

YES YES YES &YES.........

[GodIsADeeJay81]

YES YES YES &YES.........

You're off your effing head then

You can trace a lot of today's problems in the middle East back to US/UK involvement, specifically 2 gulf wars which led to the creation of Al-Qaeda, destabilisation of the entire region and leaving a power vacuum which Isis stepped into.
Their continued military involvement just makes more and more mess which they can't seem to comprehend or tidy up.

Then you've got the method used by the UK to split India to create Pakistan before all of that which has caused long term friction.

Saudis and Yeman isn't caused Israel unless you can prove otherwise?

Iran - off their heads, but again in all fairness this Islamic government was preceded by the Yanks overthrowing a gov they didn't like, putting the Shah in place and he was a bit of a weapon by all accounts with secret police crushing political opposition etc.

The creation of Israel isn't the biggest problem, or the route cause, you need to look further west...

[Taffy on the wing]

Simplistic Gibberish!.........You're ignoring the giant festering wound / Elephant in the room.
The treatment of Palestinians by the Zionist state is at the root.
Tell me you're ok with the systematic slaughter & imprisonment (Gaza) of an entire people.....go on!