Anti semetism

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:07 pm

Your stories of anti-Zionism are more off topic than mine detailing actual anti-Semitism by right wing people.

Here is the Wikipedia entry for Spiked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiked_(magazine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

So, it's not left wing at all. What was that about "doing research"? Perhaps you could have done some research before claiming the term "cultural marxism" isn't anti-Semitic?

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:24 pm

Yes, Rowls, but your saying 'it's a matter of opinion' is a clear non-answer, a rather unsubtle means of avoiding the question. How can anti-Zionism ever be regarded as racist? Anti-semitism is racist but I can't see any way that anti-Zionism falls into that category. In many ways, anti-Zionism represents a form of opposition to racism, which is why I deplore both racism and Zionism.

I am sure that as a decent-minded person you also deplore the policies of discrimination and aggressive land seizure practised by the state of Israel in the West Bank. But I am equally sure you are not anti-semitic. Help me out here.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:32 am

corporal jones wrote:Can someone help me out. The news is full of the Labour party's apparent problem with anti semetism, but as yet I haven't heard any reports of what specific anti Semitic acts have taken place. I have no particular political axe to grind by the way. Is it just that the Westminster elite think it's important and don't realise that the rest of the country is more concerned with getting through life at the moment. The Labour Party is a lot of things, but racist?

Hi corporal jones

Here's the latest story to hit the press:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -semitism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately behind a paywall but happy to bring it to your attention as usual.

Hopefully more details will emerge later.

You're welcome

Rowls

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:55 am

It's kinda funny that the people who claim that the word "racist" has lost all meaning through over-use are the ones defending accusations of "antisemitism" against anyone who criticises Israel.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:51 am

Corporal Jones wrote of Rowls:

corporal jones wrote: Im not sure i follow your meaning my friend. I was simply asking a question for clarification purposes only and not wishing to take sides. I honestly have no idea what your comment about "hard Place" means. Unless like most posters on here you are just an ignorant sarcastic buffoon who cant give a simple response or offer a counter opinion to an OP without resorting to ridicule. I do hope my criticism of you is not misconstrued in any way.

Rowls, the corporal sussed you for the pompous prig that you are sometime ago. In fact since he replied to you we haven't heard from him again. Unbloodied and unbowed you continue with your desperate mission to paint the Labour party as antisemitic. Your prejudice knows no bounds and you continue to post links to stories that are antizionist rather than antisemitic. Like many people you choose to deliberately confuse the two issues and then use it as a stick beat the Labour party with.

Like you, it's all rather sad.

You're welcome.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:56 am

Cryssys wrote:Corporal Jones wrote of Rowls:

Rowls, the corporal sussed you for the pompous prig that you are sometime ago. In fact since he replied to you we haven't heard from him since. Unbloodied and unbowed you continue with your desperate mission to paint the Labour party as antisemitic. Your prejudice knows no bounds and you continue to post links to stories that are antizionist rather than antisemitic. Like many people you choose to deliberately confuse the two issues and then use it as a stick beat the Labour party with.

Like you, it's all rather sad.

You're welcome.

When Rowls comes up against an argument he's unequipped to deal with he resorts to claiming that the person presenting it simply doesn't understand. It's how Rowls avoids having to change his mind when the facts are contrary to his beliefs. He simply claims the person presenting them doesn't understand the real issue.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:01 am

Hi Rowls, can you help me out? The news is full of the Conservatives party's apparent problem with anti muslim feeling but as yet I haven't heard any reports of what specific anti muslim acts have taken place. I have no particular political axe to grind by the way. Is it just that the Westminster elite think it's important and don't realise that the rest of the country is more concerned with getting through life at the moment. The Conservative Party is a lot of things, but racist?

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:13 am

The Labour Party isn’t institutionally anti Semitic and never has been. There are people, however, who have been allowed into the Labour Party in recent times who are profoundly anti Semitic. These people were there in the 70s and 80s when I was a member but they were in the SWP, the WRP, Spartacist League etc. Although the always turned up at picket lines, conferences etc selling their papers, they never got anywhere near to being members of the party. Now they have been welcomed in with open arms

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:05 am

Chobulous wrote:There are people, however, who have been allowed into the Labour Party in recent times who are profoundly anti Semitic. These people were there in the 70s and 80s when I was a member but they were in the SWP, the WRP, Spartacist League etc

Like you, I was around in the 70's & 80's. There were a lot of of pro Palestinian supporters at the time and regular campaigns urging Israel to give up there claims on the West Bank and the other occupied territories. That does not make them "profoundly anti semitic."

With respect, I think that you are confusing anti zionism with anti semitism.

It is also worth noting that many of the people you refer to were simultaneously leading the fight against racism (ANL), sexism and homophobia. They were derided as left wing loons at the time but such views are now considered mainstream.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:09 am

Bang on Chobulous. They don't stand in elections anymore as they all support Corbyn.

Cryssys, they are still left wing loons. Just been allowed in though.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's kinda funny that the people who claim that the word "racist" has lost all meaning through over-use are the ones defending accusations of "antisemitism" against anyone who criticises Israel.

I'm set against crying "racist!" at imagined slights but the word certainly hasn't lost all meaning, even if it has been severely diminished and undermined the fight against racism by overuse.

But, presuming you're referring to me, your assertion that I am "defending accusations of "antisemitism" against anyone who criticises Israel" is a load of utter bunkum - I am simply presenting cases and instances of alleged anti-semitism in Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party as and when I become aware of them. I'm doing so in line with the request of the OP and I present them by and large without comment.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:04 pm

Cryssys wrote:Hi Rowls, can you help me out? The news is full of the Conservatives party's apparent problem with anti muslim feeling but as yet I haven't heard any reports of what specific anti muslim acts have taken place. I have no particular political axe to grind by the way. Is it just that the Westminster elite think it's important and don't realise that the rest of the country is more concerned with getting through life at the moment. The Conservative Party is a lot of things, but racist?

Yes Cryssys! I can help you out!

Go to the "Start Topic" button on the main page and start a thread entitled "Islamophobia" or something and request regular examples of what may or may not be Islamophobia.

You could even link to article etc as and when they come up.

You're welcome

Rowls

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:52 pm

Rowls wrote:Yes Cryssys! I can help you out!

Go to the "Start Topic" button on the main page and start a thread entitled "Islamophobia" or something and request regular examples of what may or may not be Islamophobia.

You could even link to article etc as and when they come up.

You're welcome

Rowls

You're parroting a tired message and burying your head in the sand. Islamophobia in the Conservative Party is rife and and antisemitism in the Labour Party pales into insignificance by comparison.

You choose to ignore inconvenient truths because they don't fit your narrative and by doing so you lose all credibility. All you're doing is attempting to make cheap political capital and it's so obvious it's pitiful.

Bit like signing your post you bumptious prig.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:35 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's kinda funny that the people who claim that the word "racist" has lost all meaning through over-use are the ones defending accusations of "antisemitism" against anyone who criticises Israel.

It's kinda funny how you claim to be so much against racism, yet you clearly have a problem when people highlight anti-semitism.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:52 pm

Damo wrote:It's kinda funny how you claim to be so much against racism, yet you clearly have a problem when people highlight anti-semitism.

Where have i expressed a problem with people highlighting antisemitism?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:19 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Where have i expressed a problem with people highlighting antisemitism?

This thread, stupid!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:25 am

Rowls wrote:This thread, stupid!

No i haven't.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:54 am

Cryssys wrote:Like you, I was around in the 70's & 80's. There were a lot of of pro Palestinian supporters at the time and regular campaigns urging Israel to give up there claims on the West Bank and the other occupied territories. That does not make them "profoundly anti semitic."

With respect, I think that you are confusing anti zionism with anti semitism.

It is also worth noting that many of the people you refer to were simultaneously leading the fight against racism (ANL), sexism and homophobia. They were derided as left wing loons at the time but such views are now considered mainstream.

Sorry mate, but that argument doesn’t wash. Sure there is anti- Zionism and if that was all it was I would agree, but anti- Zionism is only one facet of there anti- semitism. They firmly believe that the Jewish people are inextricably linked with a hidden capitalist international conspiracy. As I said, in the 70s and 80s they were always turning up on picket lines etc selling there papers or trying to engage you in conversations about whether Rosa Luxembourg was a class traitor or some such rubbish. Anyway just a glance through the papers they were hawking would show that they were full of anti- jewish tropes. Partly because of these views they never got anywhere near party membership. These are the same people that are such a problem for Labour now. They are tolerated because they all support Corbyn and secretly I suspect he supports them.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:41 am

While we have the conversation about certain anti-Semites on the left who should be castigated just as any other racist, it's worth remembering that there is a difference.

This is the kind of thing that happens when the rest of us call out racists and other racists defend them by coming out with "the word racist has lost all meaning". https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/ca ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So we should be careful with how we defend criticism of Israel and makes that that it's not actual racism we're incorrectly excusing as criticism of Israel if only to make sure that the violent anti-Semites are the ones on the right and not on the left.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:28 am

But we're not going to be talking about this today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ition.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:45 am

This appears to be real anti Semitism :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48081535" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Goes without saying it's an abomination.

As to the cartoon, I'm not sure. The star of David appears on the flag of Israel - something that illustrates both the very clear link between Judaism and that state and how there is a lot of duplicity in this debate. When it suits, it's perfectly acceptable for Israel and Judaism to share the same symbols - but when there's a chance to cry foul, it's apparently unacceptable to use them. I'd say also that given cartoonist hasn't exactly captured Netanyahu, he's used the star to make sure we know who he is. The kippah is possibly more problematic but, given Netanyahu has been accused of moving Israel further towards an exclusively Jewish state, pandering to his "right wing" ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_L ... ish_People" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) I'm not sure it's anti Semitism (and again, the same point that when you have a premier who is pushing through such a law, it's a bit weird to complain when the same equivalence is made elsewhere) although clearly not all Jews are Israeli (and vice versa) and not all Jews (or Israelis) support the Basic Law and not all Jews wear the kippah at all times. But if you're going to have a cartoon with that amount of nuance, it's a two-page article you need, not a cartoon.

Whether or not I agree with it, in making the claim that an unknowledgeable US President is being led in his Middle East policy by an Israeli PM who favours an exclusively Jewish viewpoint when the US should not be led in such a way, I think that cartoon is clear.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:10 am

AndyClaret wrote:But we're not going to be talking about this today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ition.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The NYT made the mistake of trying to make the point that Trump is being led by the worlds worst leaders and chose Netanyahu.

There's nothing wrong with the message (because it's quite true), but the NYT slipped up in not knowing how to portray Netanyhu in a cartoon without being accused of anti-semitism. Seriously. How is it to be done? If it was Putin the god could have the Russian flag around its neck and it'd be clear that ti was anti-Putin, not anti-Russia. If it was Mohammed Bonesaw it could be a cresting moon or just the Saudi flag. And it wouldn't be islamophobic. So how do you portray a caricature of Netanyahu without being antisemitic? I'd love to know.

Naturally those who claimed to hate political correctness will be all over this to accuse the NYT (and therefore in their eyes everyone right of cheeto Mussolini) of antisemitism, because they're hypocrites.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:31 am

The left made the rules Charlie. You shouldn't complain really

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:36 am

You can't even talk about being proud to be English these days, or you get locked up or something.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:37 am

Damo wrote:The left made the rules Charlie. You shouldn't complain really

No they didn't. They just said "hey, don't be racist, homophobic, sexist, etc". Then some idiots misused that argument and then instead of criticising those who misused it, you morons criticised those who used it properly as a means of making it taboo to call out discrimination. I'd suggest some reasons why, but you'd get upset.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:39 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:You can't even talk about being proud to be English these days, or you get locked up or something.

Almost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:24 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No they didn't. They just said "hey, don't be racist, homophobic, sexist, etc". Then some idiots misused that argument and then instead of criticising those who misused it, you morons criticised those who used it properly as a means of making it taboo to call out discrimination. I'd suggest some reasons why, but you'd get upset.

Seems strange then, when you and your liberal mates appear angry when anti semitism gets called out

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:10 pm

Damo wrote:Seems strange then, when you and your liberal mates appear angry when anti semitism gets called out

Not true. I don't like it when criticism of Israel is called antisemitism. As i've told you before. Kinda weird that you would repeat this having been corrected in the past, isn't it? It's almost as if you just want to smear people based on false information.

In fact, for someone who regularly whines about the overuse of -isms it's kind of strange that you're so eager to defend people who misuse "antisemitism".

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:43 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Not true. I don't like it when criticism of Israel is called antisemitism. As i've told you before. Kinda weird that you would repeat this having been corrected in the past, isn't it? It's almost as if you just want to smear people based on false information.

In fact, for someone who regularly whines about the overuse of -isms it's kind of strange that you're so eager to defend people who misuse "antisemitism".

Turn it in Ken Livingstone. It's getting embarrassing now.
I've told you before that I couldn't care less about you're isms.
It's no wonder nobody takes you seriously anymore

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:46 pm

Damo wrote:Turn it in Ken Livingstone. It's getting embarrassing now.
I've told you before that I couldn't care less about you're isms.
It's no wonder nobody takes you seriously anymore

So now you're resorting to literal name calling because you were wrong about me.

Find a single time I've defended antisemitism, or objected to antisemitism being called antisemitism. If you can't do that then it's because you can't, and you've falsely accused me of being an anti-semite.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:So now you're resorting to literal name calling because you were wrong about me.

Find a single time I've defended antisemitism, or objected to antisemitism being called antisemitism. If you can't do that then it's because you can't, and you've falsely accused me of being an anti-semite.

People will read this thread and cast their own aspersions pal. I dont need to check your previous comments, and hope the thread they were posted in was not deleted

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:52 pm

Damo wrote:People will read this thread and cast their own aspersions pal. I dont need to check your previous comments, and hope the thread they were posted in was not deleted

Casting aspersions is exactly what you're doing. And then when challenged you're refusing to even try to back up the smears. An utterly scummy thing to do.

When you accuse someone of something at least have the balls to explain your reasoning so that the rest of us can scrutinise the basis of your accusation, or if you can't then have the integrity to admit that you had no reason.

You called me an antisemite when you referred to me as "Ken Livingstone". Why did you do that?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:28 am

corporal jones wrote:Can someone help me out. The news is full of the Labour party's apparent problem with anti semetism, but as yet I haven't heard any reports of what specific anti Semitic acts have taken place. I have no particular political axe to grind by the way. Is it just that the Westminster elite think it's important and don't realise that the rest of the country is more concerned with getting through life at the moment. The Labour Party is a lot of things, but racist?

Hi again corporal jones!

Here's the latest incident of (potential) anti-semitism in Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party:

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/la ... synagogue/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, it could be construed that marching on the synagogue is actually just "anti-zionism" and that claiming the Rothschild's are in league with Satan, members of "the illuminati" and "responsible for almost every war on earth" is actually legitimate criticism of Israel?

Who's to know?

You can either click on the link (above) and decide for yourself or we can wait for ImplodingTurtle to tell us how it should be classified. I'm sure these are both good options.

As ever, you're welcome and I'll keep you updated with incidents as and when they occur.

Rowls

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:34 am

Info from the above article - Apparently, somebody called Euan Philipps (who is spokesperson for 'Labour Against Antisemitism') is on record as saying:

"The Labour Party in Brighton has been shown to have a deep-rooted and longstanding problem with antisemitism."

Hopefully somebody can clarify this. Perhaps he meant to say "legitimate criticism of Israel" or perhaps he is confusing antisemitism with Anti-Zionism?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:47 am

Rowls wrote:Hi again corporal jones!

Here's the latest incident of (potential) anti-semitism in Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party:

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/la ... synagogue/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems pretty clear.

But i love how desperate you are to include Corbyn's name, as if he is in any way relevant to that person's bigotry.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:34 am

Rowls wrote:Info from the above article - Apparently, somebody called Euan Philipps (who is spokesperson for 'Labour Against Antisemitism') is on record as saying:

"The Labour Party in Brighton has been shown to have a deep-rooted and longstanding problem with antisemitism."

Hopefully somebody can clarify this. Perhaps he meant to say "legitimate criticism of Israel" or perhaps he is confusing antisemitism with Anti-Zionism?

Rowls, can I ask why you seem to be far more concerned with Antisemitism than with other similar, but equally bad issues?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:39 am

Spijed wrote:Rowls, can I ask why you seem to be far more concerned with Antisemitism than with other similar, but equally bad issues?

I'll field this one, Rowls.

Spijed, it's because this is the one the media has said is a left-wing problem. (excluding all the terrorists who go around murdering Jews)

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:But i love how desperate you are to include Corbyn's name, as if he is in any way relevant to that person's bigotry.

Why do I write Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party?

Well, here are the instances of anti-semisitism I can recall in Tony Blair's Labour Party:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

And here are the instances of anti-semitism I can recall in Gordon Brown's Labour Party:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

And here are the instances of anti-semitism I can recall in Ed Miliband's Labour Party:

1. A comment about that bacon sandwich, intended as a joke
2.
3.
4.
5.

Perhaps (just perhaps) a man who goes to lay wreaths at the graves of anti-semitic murderers, who bemoans the painting over of openly anti-semitic murals, who calls murderous proscribed terrorist organisations his 'friends' has created a party that is, shall we say, more susceptible to accusations of anti-semitism?

Or perhaps (just perhaps) it's only the line of what has already been posted on this thread:

Chobulous wrote:The Labour Party isn’t institutionally anti Semitic and never has been. There are people, however, who have been allowed into the Labour Party in recent times who are profoundly anti Semitic. These people were there in the 70s and 80s when I was a member but they were in the SWP, the WRP, Spartacist League etc. Although the always turned up at picket lines, conferences etc selling their papers, they never got anywhere near to being members of the party. Now they have been welcomed in with open arms

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:03 pm

Spijed wrote:Rowls, can I ask why you seem to be far more concerned with Antisemitism than with other similar, but equally bad issues?

Hi Spijed,

Are you really asking me why I should be concerned with apparently widespread racism infecting a mainstream UK political party?

Should that need spelling out to you?

Really?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:17 pm

Rowls wrote:Why do I write Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party?

Well, here are the instances of anti-semisitism I can recall in Tony Blair's Labour Party:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

And here are the instances of anti-semitism I can recall in Gordon Brown's Labour Party:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

And here are the instances of anti-semitism I can recall in Ed Miliband's Labour Party:

1. A comment about that bacon sandwich, intended as a joke
2.
3.
4.
5.

Perhaps (just perhaps) a man who goes to lay wreaths at the graves of anti-semitic murderers, who bemoans the painting over of openly anti-semitic murals, who calls murderous proscribed terrorist organisations his 'friends' has created a party that is, shall we say, more susceptible to accusations of anti-semitism?

Or perhaps (just perhaps) it's only the line of what has already been posted on this thread:

I'm curious. Do you think these anti-semites weren't in the Labour party before Corbyn was leader?

Perhaps (just perhaps) a man who goes to lay wreaths at the graves of anti-semitic murderers, who bemoans the painting over of openly anti-semitic murals, who calls murderous proscribed terrorist organisations his 'friends' has created a party that is, shall we say, more susceptible to accusations of anti-semitism?

Or perhaps (just perhaps) it's only the line of what has already been posted on this thread:

[/quote]

Ah good. We're back to lies and faux-outrage.

The wreathe: Corbyn laid no such wreathe.

The mural: Is there any reason to believe this isn't true? "In 2012, Jeremy was responding to concerns about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech,” said a statement released by the Labour party on Friday. “However, the mural was offensive, used antisemitic imagery, which has no place in our society, and it is right that it was removed." ... “I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and antisemitic,” he said. “The defence of free speech cannot be used as a justification for the promotion of antisemitism in any form. That is a view I’ve always held.”

The "friends":

oh look, it's this dumb **** again.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm curious. Do you think these anti-semites weren't in the Labour party before Corbyn was leader?

So you accept Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party has a problem with anti-semitism?

I'm not sure whether they were in the party beforehand. But Chobulous is. He says they "never got anywhere near to being members of the party. Now they have been welcomed in with open arms".

For some reason, you snipped off the quote that helped answer your question.

So here it is again:

Chobulous wrote:The Labour Party isn’t institutionally anti Semitic and never has been. There are people, however, who have been allowed into the Labour Party in recent times who are profoundly anti Semitic. These people were there in the 70s and 80s when I was a member but they were in the SWP, the WRP, Spartacist League etc. Although the always turned up at picket lines, conferences etc selling their papers, they never got anywhere near to being members of the party. Now they have been welcomed in with open arms

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:34 pm

For some reason, you snipped off the quote that helped answer your question.

I snipped nothing you dumb ****. The forum doesn't support nested quotes. Go ahead, click quote on your own post and see that Chobulus' quote doesn't get included.

Rowls wrote:So you accept Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party has a problem with anti-semitism?

I'm not sure whether they were in the party beforehand. But Chobulous is. He says they "never got anywhere near to being members of the party. Now they have been welcomed in with open arms".

For some reason, you snipped off the quote that helped answer your question.

So here it is again:

I accept that the Labour Party has anti-Semites in it. But i dont' think you actually give a **** about the anti-Semitism. You didn't give a **** about it when the Labour party had more right-wing leadership that it currently has. But one of the ways i know you don't care about it is that you are so determined to call it "Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party". You're really desperate to slime Corbyn with this as if it's something that has only happened since he became leader.
And if you cared about the anti-Semitism you'd be applauding the fact that it's being brought out into the open under Corbyn, and wonder why it remained an unaddressed problem under previous leaders.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:43 pm

And here's the mural in question which Jeremy Corbyn regrets he "did not look more closely at":

It makes one wonder how a man who has spent his life in politics couldn't so easily see what the image depicts.

We can only wonder what kind of incisive art experts the Labour Party had to bring in to transcribe what the picture could possibly be saying? Perhaps they brought in Sister Wendy Beckett, Will Gompertz and Andrew Graham-Dixon to help Corbyn interpret this most tricky of art pieces?

Or perhaps this article has it down better:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... byn-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps, as the article says, it's time for Jeremy Corbyn to "open his eyes"? Perhaps, as you admit yourself Mr. Turtle, there are problematic anti-semitic people in the Labour Party?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:i dont' think you actually give a **** about the anti-Semitism.

Right.

You know what I *actually* think. But I'm cunning enough to never *say* it. I think it "secretly" and only you can see it.

No further questions, m'lud.

Thank you Turtle.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:49 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And if you cared about the anti-Semitism you'd be applauding the fact that it's being brought out into the open under Corbyn, and wonder why it remained an unaddressed problem under previous leaders.

No comment necessary

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:57 pm

The wreathe: Corbyn laid no such wreathe.

You mean the one where he was present but not involved, that one ?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:04 pm

I'm looking forward to going for a swim in the river of tears Rowls cries after Corbyn becomes prime minister.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:08 pm

Rowls wrote:Right.

You know what I *actually* think. But I'm cunning enough to never *say* it. I think it "secretly" and only you can see it.

No further questions, m'lud.

Thank you Turtle.

He made that Facebook post in 2012. Where was your outrage then? If what Corbyn said was so anti-Semitic then why have you not expressed disgust at the fact that Labour did nothing about it in 2012?

We both know why.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:38 pm

Is there any of the boards "Liberals" that this thread doesn't appear to have angered a little?

I highlighted the word "Liberals" because I dont mean actual liberals really. Those who will find anti-semitism just as unpalatable as every other kind of racism

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:51 pm

Rowls wrote:Hi Spijed,

Are you really asking me why I should be concerned with apparently widespread racism infecting a mainstream UK political party?

No. He isn’t. Try reading the question again - you can move your lips if it helps - and then try answering it.

Or you could just accuse me of being dull again. That usually works.