Educate me please
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Educate me please
Amber Rudd has apologised for calling Diane Abbott, “coloured”.
If you are in a debate about racism what is an acceptable term?
I’m baffled. It’s like IDing a suspect to the police. He was over 6’, he wore a green jacket, he had big feet but god forbid that you say he was Afro-Caribbean or Middle Eastern or Far Eastern. All of which would narrow the search dramatically.
If you are in a debate about racism what is an acceptable term?
I’m baffled. It’s like IDing a suspect to the police. He was over 6’, he wore a green jacket, he had big feet but god forbid that you say he was Afro-Caribbean or Middle Eastern or Far Eastern. All of which would narrow the search dramatically.
Re: Educate me please
The correct term is colourful
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Re: Educate me please
Whoa now, let's not be assuming gender thank you very much.Tricky Trevor wrote:Amber Rudd has apologised for calling Diane Abbott, “coloured”.
If you are in a debate about racism what is an acceptable term?
I’m baffled. It’s like IDing a suspect to the police. He was over 6’, he wore a green jacket, he had big feet but god forbid that you say he was Afro-Caribbean or Middle Eastern or Far Eastern. All of which would narrow the search dramatically.
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Re: Educate me please
Probably because it's an outdated meaningless term that belongs in the 1970's.
We're all coloured ffs!
We're all coloured ffs!
Re: Educate me please
You can't call her coloured yet we are white ! which is a colour !
I think the correct terminology these days is " a suntanned complexion "
I think the correct terminology these days is " a suntanned complexion "
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Re: Educate me please
No, the term is "black".Aclaret wrote:You can't call her coloured yet we are white ! which is a colour !
I think the correct terminology these days is " a suntanned complexion "
It's really not difficult, when you think about it.
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Re: Educate me please
Amber Rudd should apologise for being Amber Rudd.
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Re: Educate me please
I'd tread very carefully on this if I were you.Tricky Trevor wrote:Amber Rudd has apologised for calling Diane Abbott, “coloured”.
If you are in a debate about racism what is an acceptable term?
The hard left will deem you racist for not knowing what term is acceptable.
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Re: Educate me please
No. Just ignorant.Dazzler wrote:I'd tread very carefully on this if I were you.
The hard left will deem you racist for not knowing what term is acceptable.
Re: Educate me please
You mean it's not Black or White but a Grey area.Dazzler wrote:I'd tread very carefully on this if I were you.
The hard left will deem you racist for not knowing what term is acceptable.
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Re: Educate me please
I don't know the context, but firstly 'coloured' is an awful word, really. It has no connotations other than racist ones, as it's like 'white' vs 'not white'.
Secondly, I don't know what the agreeable word is, other than 'person'. I'm not trying to be all righteous or anything, but round the Burnley and Pendle area there aren't a great many 'black' people, and 'asian' is such a broad descriptor that you might as well mean 'not english'.
She's brown. There's no getting away from that, but she's British. I don't know what heritage she has to make her skin colour that way, just like I don't know what heritage I have to make my skin colour the colour it is (raping and pillaging vikings no doubt), but if the idea of modern society is to move away from skin colour being a thing then we have to stop making skin colour a thing.
Secondly, I don't know what the agreeable word is, other than 'person'. I'm not trying to be all righteous or anything, but round the Burnley and Pendle area there aren't a great many 'black' people, and 'asian' is such a broad descriptor that you might as well mean 'not english'.
She's brown. There's no getting away from that, but she's British. I don't know what heritage she has to make her skin colour that way, just like I don't know what heritage I have to make my skin colour the colour it is (raping and pillaging vikings no doubt), but if the idea of modern society is to move away from skin colour being a thing then we have to stop making skin colour a thing.
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Re: Educate me please
Thanks for clearing that up then.duncandisorderly wrote:I don't know the context, but firstly 'coloured' is an awful word, really. It has no connotations other than racist ones, as it's like 'white' vs 'not white'.
Secondly, I don't know what the agreeable word is, other than 'person'. I'm not trying to be all righteous or anything, but round the Burnley and Pendle area there aren't a great many 'black' people, and 'asian' is such a broad descriptor that you might as well mean 'not english'.
She's brown. There's no getting away from that, but she's British. I don't know what heritage she has to make her skin colour that way, just like I don't know what heritage I have to make my skin colour the colour it is (raping and pillaging vikings no doubt), but if the idea of modern society is to move away from skin colour being a thing then we have to stop making skin colour a thing.
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Re: Educate me please
The correct term is 'black'. Diane Abbott whilst not my favourite member of the cabinet is quite right to call out Amber Rudd on this one. Rudd is desperately trying to show her understanding of how difficult it is for black women yet shows that she hasn't a clue by her 'clumsy' use of racist terminology.
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Re: Educate me please
Of course, if you say you're white these days, they'll arrest you and throw you in jail, won't they?
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Re: Educate me please
Amber and ruddy are both colours.
Re: Educate me please
"Sorry officer,due to the racial discrimination act,I am not at liberty to inform you of the suspects skin colour"duncandisorderly wrote:but if the idea of modern society is to move away from skin colour being a thing then we have to stop making skin colour a thing.
Re: Educate me please
'' He was of human colour officer ''
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Re: Educate me please
I think you will find the correct term is thickClaret wrote:The correct term is colourful
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Re: Educate me please
Tricky Trevor wrote:Amber Rudd has apologised for calling Diane Abbott, “coloured”.
If you are in a debate about racism what is an acceptable term?
I’m baffled. It’s like IDing a suspect to the police. He was over 6’, he wore a green jacket, he had big feet but god forbid that you say he was Afro-Caribbean or Middle Eastern or Far Eastern. All of which would narrow the search dramatically.
Black, ethnic, minority, etc. Coloured has been taboo for a while now, but it's usually not used maliciously like some other words are so a simple apology is usually fine and it's forgotten about.
I think it's kinda like "he/she is a Jew" in that people use it not realising it's taboo when what they really mean is "he/she is Jewish".
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Re: Educate me please
Here's why.Tricky Trevor wrote:Amber Rudd has apologised for calling Diane Abbott, “coloured”.
If you are in a debate about racism what is an acceptable term?
I’m baffled. It’s like IDing a suspect to the police. He was over 6’, he wore a green jacket, he had big feet but god forbid that you say he was Afro-Caribbean or Middle Eastern or Far Eastern. All of which would narrow the search dramatically.
The term black is 100% acceptable and I used it to describe to the police the perpetrator of car break in I witnessed not nearly 3 months ago.
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Re: Educate me please
This is what idiots want you to believe about the left "everyone to the left is "hard left" nowadays). But as has already been pointed out to you, Dazzler, it's just ignorance rather than racism when someone uses a racist term unwittingly.Dazzler wrote:I'd tread very carefully on this if I were you.
The hard left will deem you racist for not knowing what term is acceptable.
But you carry on calling us lefties all "hard left", and you carry on telling people that we think everyone's racist. It only makes you look stupid, which I enjoy.
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Re: Educate me please
Thanks guys. If it ever crops up I’ll go with black but I find that more offensive than coloured but I don’t know why.
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Re: Educate me please
Agreed.Imploding Turtle wrote:Black, ethnic, minority, etc. Coloured has been taboo for a while now, but it's usually not used maliciously like some other words are so a simple apology is usually fine and it's forgotten about.
I think it's kinda like "he/she is a Jew" in that people use it not realising it's taboo when what they really mean is "he/she is Jewish".
Normally, not much would have been made of it, but it was incredibly careless and clumsy, and the ultimate irony that Ms Rudd used it in the context of the conversation she was engaged in; and it does therefore raise a few questions about her suitability for high office.
(For the benefit of some posters: I am not suggesting for one minute that Ms Rudd is a racist or intended any offence whatsoever)
Re: Educate me please
Talking about malicious racist comments my fiancee was called a Pakki by an alcoholic husband of a lady friend of mine
Even though she is a Filipina
Even though she is a Filipina
Re: Educate me please
Is " black" ok? Not African British? Like her or loathe her the woman's only guilty of momentarily forgetting what the new orthodoxy is. And she was standing up for Mrs no-maths !
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Re: Educate me please
mkmel wrote:Talking about malicious racist comments my fiancee was called a Pakki by an alcoholic husband of a lady friend of mine
Even though she is a Filipina
People who use racist terms maliciously don't tend to be the smartest people.
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Re: Educate me please
Apart from Diane Abbot apparently.fidelcastro wrote:
We're all coloured ffs!
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Re: Educate me please
Another one for anyone who is blind to context and playing the semantics game.
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Re: Educate me please
FFS Chill your head man...what do you think the was for?Imploding Turtle wrote:This is what idiots want you to believe about the left "everyone to the left is "hard left" nowadays). But as has already been pointed out to you, Dazzler, it's just ignorance rather than racism when someone uses a racist term unwittingly.
But you carry on calling us lefties all "hard left", and you carry on telling people that we think everyone's racist. It only makes you look stupid, which I enjoy.
Re: Educate me please
Coloured person = not acceptable.
Person of colour = acceptable.
Person of colour = acceptable.
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Re: Educate me please
You never know what to say these days regarding people's skin colour, it's so easy to say the wrong thing even when well intentioned somebody will jump onto it & make something from it, i find it easier to not even refer to any skin colour or any derogatory term if i can help it.
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Re: Educate me please
Erm... actually no.Hapag Lloyd wrote:Apart from Diane Abbot apparently.
The reason rudd has been pulled up on this is because she used the word to describe Abbott, in the context in which she singled her out. If she'd used the term "black" there would have been no issue. This will be old news by the end of tomorrow anyway.
I noticed that tim loon liked you post, which rather says it all!
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Re: Educate me please
There’s no need to refer to colour at all. Not white, pink, black, brown, coloured....fidelcastro wrote:No, the term is "black".
It's really not difficult, when you think about it.
Simply refer to a person by their name.
All the conversations on the many threads on this forum....when did you ever read “Ashley Barnes the salmon pink forward...” or “Tom Heaton, a creamy mushoroom coloured goalkeeper...”
You can say anything you like about Diane but her colour is irrelevant.
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Re: Educate me please
I'd describe Diane Abbott as fat, pathetic and unacceptable.
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Re: Educate me please
It's not irrelevant when people are making racist remarks on social media and the like, which is the point that rudd was making before expressing it clumsily.LoveCurryPies wrote:There’s no need to refer to colour at all. Not white, pink, black, brown, coloured....
Simply refer to a person by their name.
All the conversations on the many threads on this forum....when did you ever read “Ashley Barnes the salmon pink forward...” or “Tom Heaton, a creamy mushoroom coloured goalkeeper...”
You can say anything you like about Diane but her colour is irrelevant.
Your analogies are bizarre, to be honest.
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Re: Educate me please
Pretty careless by Rudd.
Most people know coloured isn’t acceptable and, rightly, it is people of colour who make this decision as to what they do or don’t find offensive.
Diane Abbot in turn has decided to take it a certain way. The danger with that is that many will view it as political point scoring.
Realistically I’m not sure today’s incident will change anyone’s previously held view of either individual .
Most people know coloured isn’t acceptable and, rightly, it is people of colour who make this decision as to what they do or don’t find offensive.
Diane Abbot in turn has decided to take it a certain way. The danger with that is that many will view it as political point scoring.
Realistically I’m not sure today’s incident will change anyone’s previously held view of either individual .
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Re: Educate me please
And to quote FC. Black.Bin Ont Turf wrote:I'd describe Diane Abbott as fat, pathetic and unacceptable.
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Re: Educate me please
Yes. She's a black female politician, tim loon. What's your point?tim_noone wrote:And to quote FC. Black.
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Re: Educate me please
fidelcastro wrote:Yes. She's a black female politician, tim loon. What's your point?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj84tfS7ag4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Educate me please
Exactly that....fidelcastro wrote:Yes. She's a black female politician, tim loon. What's your point?
Re: Educate me please
It has been decided, by the self-appointed arbiters of acceptability, that "coloured" is offensive and outdated, partly because the idea that people with dark skin are coloured and those with light skin are not; the correct term, as per Halle Berry in her Oscar speech, is "of colour" which has no such implications. Apparently.
But Amber Rudd can at least assure herself that she is in good company. The half a million members of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People presumably aren't too put out. They presumably don't find the term offensive.
But Amber Rudd can at least assure herself that she is in good company. The half a million members of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People presumably aren't too put out. They presumably don't find the term offensive.
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Re: Educate me please
Aye, I remember that sketch from back in the day... and there wasn't one accusation of racism. It's always inoffensive, unless it's then followed by a pejorative term.Bin Ont Turf wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj84tfS7ag4
Context is always important.
Re: Educate me please
You can be of colour but not coloured.
In the last 5 years I have been ticked off by my son when watching my grandson playing football in a team with a player of colour who was head and shoulders above the rest. When i commented that the coloured lad was a good player, my son told me not to say coloured as it was not PC, but i should say black. i seem to remember being told never to call a person black but to call such a person coloured years ago. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!!!!!!
In the last 5 years I have been ticked off by my son when watching my grandson playing football in a team with a player of colour who was head and shoulders above the rest. When i commented that the coloured lad was a good player, my son told me not to say coloured as it was not PC, but i should say black. i seem to remember being told never to call a person black but to call such a person coloured years ago. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!!!!!!
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Re: Educate me please
What are you on about?tim_noone wrote:Exactly that....
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Re: Educate me please
In your head maybe but I think Combat Claret is a lot closer to the mark around why the term coloured is deemed offensive and has negative connotationsdsr wrote:It has been decided, by the self-appointed arbiters of acceptability, that "coloured" is offensive and outdated, partly because the idea that people with dark skin are coloured and those with light skin are not
Re: Educate me please
But it can't be that offensive or the NAACP would have changed its name.Devils_Advocate wrote:In your head maybe but I think Combat Claret is a lot closer to the mark around why the term coloured is deemed offensive and has negative connotations
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Re: Educate me please
Founded in 1909. I imagine if it was founded 50 years earlier I imagine it'd have been called NAAN, and the second N would still be racist today when used maliciously.dsr wrote:But it can't be that offensive or the NAACP would have changed its name.
Re: Educate me please
Which brings us back to the circular point that Amber Rudd wasn't being malicious, and therefore (presumably) not racist.Imploding Turtle wrote:Founded in 1909. I imagine if it was founded 50 years earlier I imagine it'd have been called NAAN, and the second N would still be racist today when used maliciously.
If the NAACP had been called the NAAN, they would have changed it because of the gross offence often caused by that word. Coloured presumably does not cause such gross offence.
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Re: Educate me please
dsr wrote:Which brings us back to the circular point that Amber Rudd wasn't being malicious, and therefore (presumably) not racist.
If the NAACP had been called the NAAN, they would have changed it because of the gross offence often caused by that word. Coloured presumably does not cause such gross offence.
OK. But has anyone said she was being racist?
Edit: And yes, there are degrees of offence when it comes to racist language, which is why we can comfortably use the word "coloured" in conversation but less comfortably use the word "nigger". One is more offensive than the other.
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Re: Educate me please
I fully understand why coloured is offensive and black is acceptable, although I must admit to not knowing until 20 years ago when innocently using the term with a black friend and being educated.
Whilst I now use black, my grandparents use the term coloured, despite neither of them seemingly doing it with any intention of racism. It’s seen as normal for their age (80’s), and I have heard other ‘oldies’ saying it, and they think of the term “black” as being racist as the skin colour is often not black, and it’s also linked to a very racist term of “black b****rd”, which they think is awful of course.
Is that just a UK v USA thing amongst the older age group?
Whilst I now use black, my grandparents use the term coloured, despite neither of them seemingly doing it with any intention of racism. It’s seen as normal for their age (80’s), and I have heard other ‘oldies’ saying it, and they think of the term “black” as being racist as the skin colour is often not black, and it’s also linked to a very racist term of “black b****rd”, which they think is awful of course.
Is that just a UK v USA thing amongst the older age group?