Alan Brown

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gandhisflipflop
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Alan Brown

Postby gandhisflipflop » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:14 am

Just reading a book on Brian Clough and inside it's states that Alan brown taught cloughy the discipline side of things when he moved to sunderland. It also said that cloughy helped on one of the stands at Hartlepool's and drew inspiration from Brown mucking in on our then new training complex. I'm far too young to remember him so was wondering if anyone could expand on his time here? Did he do well? What was he like etc..

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Suratclaret » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:30 am

Just before my time but my dad really rated him and always said that Brown laid the foundations for that great Burnley team which won the first division in 1959-60. Apparently he was a strong disciplinarian both as a captain and manager who commanded respect.
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mdd2
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby mdd2 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:43 am

Suratclaret wrote:Just before my time but my dad really rated him and always said that Brown laid the foundations for that great Burnley team which won the first division in 1959-60. Apparently he was a strong disciplinarian both as a captain and manager who commanded respect.

Just what many felt who watched games under him. He did a lot of unusual stuff at the time like the short corner to Mac who would then dribble along the bye line and cross for tap ins. Most of the players who were in the 59-60 team were on our books before either Alan Brown or Potts were at the helm however

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Rodleydave » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:38 am

Alan Brown versus Bob Lord... all int new Bob Lord book on its way... they did not get on
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gandhisflipflop
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby gandhisflipflop » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:56 am

It mentions his belief in 'shadow play training' something that Clough was skeptical about. I wonder if Brown had a bearing on cloughs view of chairmen and board of directors? Interesting all the same.
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claretblue
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby claretblue » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:02 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:It also said that cloughy helped on one of the stands at Hartlepool


I remember a Football annual featuring Clough helping out with building work at the ground - it had a picture of him 'fixing the roof of the stand'! :D
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South West Claret.
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby South West Claret. » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:21 am

Suratclaret wrote:Just before my time but my dad really rated him and always said that Brown laid the foundations for that great Burnley team which won the first division in 1959-60. Apparently he was a strong disciplinarian both as a captain and manager who commanded respect.


This is true I have read, Think he only wrote one book and I always look out for it in the secondhand book shops.

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gandhisflipflop
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby gandhisflipflop » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:38 am

claretblue wrote:I remember a Football annual featuring Clough helping out with building work at the ground - it had a picture of him 'fixing the roof of the stand'! :D



Brilliant!

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby IanMcL » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:39 am

Begs the question...
Was it Brown's idea for a training pitch, implemented by Lord, who then took the plaudits?

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Tricky Trevor » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:46 am

claretblue wrote:I remember a Football annual featuring Clough helping out with building work at the ground - it had a picture of him 'fixing the roof of the stand'! :D

This must have given him his idea of getting the apprentices around to work on his house.
I believe I’ve read SD would go around gardening and Stuart Pearce was an electrician who did work for him.

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Rodleydave
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Rodleydave » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:48 am

Brown should take the plaudits for many things. Some good insights and stories about him int Lord book
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Chester Perry
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Chester Perry » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:17 am

IanMcL wrote:Begs the question...
Was it Brown's idea for a training pitch, implemented by Lord, who then took the plaudits?


I thought that was well known - see para 8

http://www.uptheclarets.com/bob-lord-was-a-butcher

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby tim_noone » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:59 am

claretblue wrote:I remember a Football annual featuring Clough helping out with building work at the ground - it had a picture of him 'fixing the roof of the stand'! :D

Glen Hoddle used to polish the white hart lane cockerel on the stand .....so he said. :roll:

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basil6345789
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby basil6345789 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:28 pm

Was once in a pub conversation with Stan and Sam Ellis and they were adamant "it's all come from AB - the best".

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby claretbob » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:07 pm

If that's the case surprising how he proved to be a relative disappointment at Sunderland where he took them down in 1958 for the first time in their history, did nothing much at Wednesday and again back in Sunderland in the late 60s early 70s another relegation and crowds dropped below 10,000. It took Bob Stokoe to turn things round and cap it off with the greatest FA cup triumph of them all.I always tend to think that Harry Potts was massively underrated by some players and fans.

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby ClaretTony » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:08 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Was once in a pub conversation with Stan and Sam Ellis and they were adamant "it's all come from AB - the best".


Stan wasn't at Burnley when Brown was here and, besides that, he didn't like Potts. Ellis played for Brown at Sheffield Wednesday.


Just found this article I wrote ahead of pre-season training in 2017 - check out the last paragraph.
http://www.uptheclarets.com/gawthorpe-62-years-on

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby randomclaret2 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:19 pm

The Glenn Hoddle tale is the best euphemism I've heard in a while...

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Chester Perry
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Chester Perry » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:41 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Stan wasn't at Burnley when Brown was here and, besides that, he didn't like Potts. Ellis played for Brown at Sheffield Wednesday.


Just found this article I wrote ahead of pre-season training in 2017 - check out the last paragraph.
http://www.uptheclarets.com/gawthorpe-62-years-on


a very fitting paragraph that

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby ClaretTony » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:45 pm

Chester Perry wrote:a very fitting paragraph that


My dad was a massive fan of Alan Brown both as a player and manager. But I know Jimmy Mac told me that some players found him difficult, none more than Peter McKay whose goals dried up because Brown wanted him running the channels and Jimmy told me that the only place McKay should have ever been was in the box scoring goals.

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby South West Claret. » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:46 pm

ClaretTony wrote:My dad was a massive fan of Alan Brown both as a player and manager. But I know Jimmy Mac told me that some players found him difficult, none more than Peter McKay whose goals dried up because Brown wanted him running the channels and Jimmy told me that the only place McKay should have ever been was in the box scoring goals.


Interesting sounds a bit like Ramsey and Greaves.

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basil6345789
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby basil6345789 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:47 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Stan wasn't at Burnley when Brown was here and, besides that, he didn't like Potts. Ellis played for Brown at Sheffield Wednesday.

They were talking about Jimmy Adamson and how good his methods were and then made the point that he had in turn got it all from AB.
Just found this article I wrote ahead of pre-season training in 2017 - check out the last paragraph.
http://www.uptheclarets.com/gawthorpe-62-years-on

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lancastrian
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby lancastrian » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:20 am

Posssibly the best centre half Burnley has ever had. Excellent as captain which is one reason why in 1947 Burnley acheived promotion to the then first division and F A Cup finalist.
As manager he was probably the catalyst for what Harry Potts and Jimmy Adamson acheived. Didn't see eye to eye with Bob Lord but then who did.

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Royboyclaret
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Royboyclaret » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:34 am

lancastrian wrote:Posssibly the best centre half Burnley has ever had. Excellent as captain which is one reason why in 1947 Burnley acheived promotion to the then first division and F A Cup finalist.
As manager he was probably the catalyst for what Harry Potts and Jimmy Adamson acheived. Didn't see eye to eye with Bob Lord but then who did.


Alan Brown was a vital cog in the formidable "Iron Curtain" defence in the '46/'47 promotion season.

Just 29 goals conceded in the league that season, the best since Victorian times.

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gandhisflipflop
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby gandhisflipflop » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:45 am

So with all that said would it be fair to say that he is under appreciated here when you talk about our history?

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby ClaretTony » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:51 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:So with all that said would it be fair to say that he is under appreciated here when you talk about our history?


Very much under appreciated I would say, although he was way before my time. A captain, leader and disciplinarian and very forward thinking tactically, although depended very much on Billy Dougall. I was surprised how little mention Brown got in the recent book that was published.
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby gandhisflipflop » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:08 pm

I was unaware of him as a major influence before I read that book hence my thread. Some very interesting comments, I never knew how good a centre half he was either.

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Re: Alan Brown

Postby ClaretTony » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:11 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:I was unaware of him as a major influence before I read that book hence my thread. Some very interesting comments, I never knew how good a centre half he was either.


I had no option but to be aware of his influence. My dad went on and on and on about him.
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby ClaretTony » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:12 pm

Just found this - obituary from Ivan Ponting on his death in 1996.



It is difficult to imagine any football manager being harder or straighter than Alan Brown. No club in his charge ever lifted a major trophy, yet he remained a hugely respected, if somewhat idiosyncratic member of his profession, his name a byword for truth, frankness and rigid discipline.

Yet while the "Iron Man" image will be forever synonymous with this complex Northumbrian, his contribution as one of soccer's most thoughtful and innovative tacticians should never be overlooked. Neither should his sheer passion for the game; he once described football, with no hyperbole intended, as "one of the biggest things that happened in Creation."

The son of a painter and decorator, Brown went to grammar school and had a yen to be a teacher, but as one of a large family during the Depression, did not have the opportunity for further education. However, he was blessed with natural athleticism and, after revealing immense ability as an unyielding centre-half in local football, he joined Huddersfield Town in 1933. He did not settle contentedly with the Terriers and left to spend two years as a policeman before returning to make a few dozen senior appearances for the club before the Second World War.

However, it was after the war, having been transferred to Burnley, that Brown made his most significant impact as a player. In 1946-47, he skippered the Lancastrians to promotion from the Second Division and led them to the FA Cup Final, in which they were defeated 1-0 by Charlton Athletic. In 1948, a pounds 15,000 deal took him to Notts County, but the 34-year-old played only a handful of games before ending his playing days.

Thereafter, Brown opened a restaurant in Burnley, but returned to the game he loved on the suggestion of Stanley Rous, then Secretary of the Football Association. In 1954, after three and a half seasons as a coach with Sheffield Wednesday, Brown moved into management with his former employers, Burnley, upsetting several senior players who were not keen on the prospect of being bossed by such a tower of mor-al rectitude. Unsurprisingly, Brown was unruffled by this undercurrent, and set about his new task with evangelistic zeal. To him, such virtues as integrity and industry were compulsory and he saw to it that his club espoused them, too. Indeed, when work started on a new outdoor training centre, he helped to dig the foundations himself and "volunteered" his players to do likewise. A few hands were blistered, and probably a few egos as well.

However, Brown was never solely a disciplinarian. His deep fascination with strategy was evident in the mesmerising range of free-kick routines he instituted, and in his enterprising use of short corners, both of which were much copied elsewhere. Also, as the Turf Moor club was not blessed with bottomless coffers, he was committed to the introduction and development of youngsters, a policy which he was to pursue vigorously elsewhere in later years and which did much to pave the way for future Burnley triumphs.

Brown was not to be part of those, though. After keeping the Clarets in the top half of the First Division for three seasons, he left for Sunderland, who had been suffering scandals over illegal payments to players and who were languishing near the foot of the table. He was scathingly contemptuous of such abuse and, despite the Wearsiders being relegated for the first time in their history in 1958, Brown both ensured that their act was well and truly cleaned up and gradually revitalised their playing fortunes. He spent far more time in a track suit than a lounge suit and, after several near misses, led them to promotion in 1964. Then, to the consternation of many fans, he left to take over at Sheffield Wednesday, an ambitious club with what was then the most sumptuously- appointed stadium in the land.

Brown took the Owls to the 1966 FA Cup Final, which they lost after leading Everton by two goals, but League form tended to be mediocre or worse and in February 1968, he returned to Sunderland. Another relegation in 1970 was followed by two failures to win promotion and the sack in November 1972. After that, Brown coached in Norway, a prelude to a retirement blighted by ill health.

He will be remembered as a man who believed that rules, both for football and life, were sacrosanct. For example, he always refused to sanction material inducements to parents of promising youngsters, at a time when that practice was widespread, even if it meant losing a possible future star. His contempt for the moral bankruptcy that spawned the recent "bung" scandals must have been total. His career never attained the dizziest heights, but his personal standards did. Emphatically, Alan Brown was not for turning.
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Suratclaret
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Re: Alan Brown

Postby Suratclaret » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:39 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I had no option but to be aware of his influence. My dad went on and on and on about him.

My dad was the same... Not many games passed by without him finding an opportunity to mention Brown!


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