Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

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Espia
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Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Espia » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:12 pm

Week in week out, the never ending freeze frame post match, MOTD, discussion over whether it was offside or onside. This week Rondon for Newcastle and Sterling for City. Why don't we just do away with it? Surely the game would be more entertaining. No one could argue that it would most definitely be less controversial.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:16 pm

Espia wrote:Week in week out, the never ending freeze frame post match, MOTD, discussion over whether it was offside or onside. This week Rondon for Newcastle and Sterling for City. Why don't we just do away with it? Surely the game would be more entertaining. No one could argue that it would most definitely be less controversial.
Because Warnock would have 3 strikers waiting in the penalty area

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Tricky Trevor » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:17 pm

The Sterling one, similar to the Kane one at Anfield last season, drives me mad. He’s onside because the defender played the ball but he only played the ball because Sterling is on him. What’s he meant to do, say “After you!”

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:32 pm

Offside is okay, just flag it when someone is offside, none of that 'he's not interfering with play' b0llocks.

And none of that waiting until he touches the ball b0llocks. Time wasting shite is that.
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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:33 pm

The officials are even more bamboozled with the rules than people not even familiar with the sport but also have a basic understanding of the offside ruling & can easily spot the mistakes, a complete reform is probably well overdue whether a feeling of safe comfortable positions have developed with a lack of referee coming through or experiencing problems attaining the necessary grades I'm not sure. I'm not convinced on the merits of VAR it would be more worthwhile some sort of specsavers certificate prior to officiating.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:52 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Offside is okay, just flag it when someone is offside, none of that 'he's not interfering with play' b0llocks.

And none of that waiting until he touches the ball b0llocks. Time wasting shite is that.
Completely agree. Although most dont for some odd reason.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Foulthrow » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:06 am

Before VAR comes in they really need to clarify this. When there is doubt, do we go with the officials original decision, or do you give the benefit of doubt to the attacking or defending side?

It took cricket a while to iron out a few issues with DRS and football could learn something from the way they use this system.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Hipper » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:27 pm

Offside has been in many team sports since the started, including rugby and hockey. Hockey dispensed with it a few years ago.

You need to ask what the consequences for the way football is played would be if offside was abandoned.

https://sportgeschiedenis.nl/sporten/vo ... t-offside/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/germany/ ... fside-rule" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by dsr » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:49 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Offside is okay, just flag it when someone is offside, none of that 'he's not interfering with play' [deleted].

And none of that waiting until he touches the ball [deleted]. Time wasting [deleted] is that.
It'd certainly remove the need for old fashioned wingers, if you automatically disallow every goal where the winger gets to the goalline and pulls it back for the forward.

But looking on the bright side, it would have disallowed Liverpool's first and third goals.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Im_not_Robbie_Blake » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:31 am

Bring back goalhanging - my best position
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boatshed bill
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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Offside is okay, just flag it when someone is offside, none of that 'he's not interfering with play' b0llocks.

And none of that waiting until he touches the ball b0llocks. Time wasting shite is that.
This post totally nails it. They've made a complete mess of a very simple (and necessary) rule.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Bosscat » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:54 pm

Im_not_Robbie_Blake wrote:Bring back goalhanging - my best position
Thats the answer ..... the buggers who persistently get caught offside ... hang them from the crossbar.... (probably have raise the bar though if its Peter Crouch)

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:55 pm

Works in Hockey, totally changed the way in which you attach and defend. Totally prefer our way over your antiquated footballers

claret59
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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by claret59 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:34 am

I go back a long way when it comes to supporting the Clarets and can recall when they had a season 'curtain raiser' called the Watney Cup. Sponsored by Watney's Beer. Can you still get it? Anyway the idea was to have a trophy to play for before the season started and was meant to replace meaningless friendlies. As an experiment the offside rule was abandoned during this tournament. It did not produce the avalanche of goals expected and defenders soon learnt how to negate any benefits. It had a very short shelf life.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by groove » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:45 am

Im_not_Robbie_Blake wrote:Bring back goalhanging - my best position
We used to call it 'tartlining'. Anyone else familiar with that term or was it just an Accy thing?

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by duncandisorderly » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:47 am

groove wrote:We used to call it 'tartlining'. Anyone else familiar with that term or was it just an Accy thing?
Babylining.
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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by aggi » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:32 pm

They trialled it in the US for a season and games ended up ridiculously stretched. Teams would leave a man permanently upfront which meant that one, or normally two, defenders had to stay with them. Teams just launched long balls to try and get up the pitch as quickly as possible.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Vintage Claret » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:45 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Offside is okay, just flag it when someone is offside, none of that 'he's not interfering with play' b0llocks.

And none of that waiting until he touches the ball b0llocks. Time wasting shite is that.
Agree.

Was it the great Bill Shankly who said something like "if a player isn't interfering with play what's he doing on the pitch?"

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by dsr » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Vintage Claret wrote:Agree.

Was it the great Bill Shankly who said something like "if a player isn't interfering with play what's he doing on the pitch?"
No, it was Bill Nicholson. Most people say something really stupid in their life, and that was Nicholson's. (Shankley's was the one about football being more important than life or death. Though obviously he wasn't being serious. I hope.)

Few people wpuld think it would improve football, anyway. Can you, hand on heart, say that the rule should be changed with the result that Liverpool's first and third goals should both have been disallowed because there was a player in an offside position?

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Vintage Claret » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:08 pm

"No, it was Bill Nicholson"

Ah, ok, thanks,


"Few people would think it would improve football, anyway. Can you, hand on heart, say that the rule should be changed with the result that Liverpool's first and third goals should both have been disallowed because there was a player in an offside position?"

I don't know if it would improve the game overall or not, I guess there's 2 ways of looking at it.

Yes it would have been harsh on Liverpool in Sundays examples (though bloody good for us) but haven't there also been instances when goals have been allowed to stand when players who didn't actually put the ball in the net were deemed not interfering with play when you could argue that they were (e.g. stood right in front of the goalie, taking defenders out, etc.)

At least the "offside is offside" rule would eliminate any debate about interfering with play or not.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by aggi » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:24 pm

dsr wrote:No, it was Bill Nicholson. Most people say something really stupid in their life, and that was Nicholson's. (Shankley's was the one about football being more important than life or death. Though obviously he wasn't being serious. I hope.)

Few people wpuld think it would improve football, anyway. Can you, hand on heart, say that the rule should be changed with the result that Liverpool's first and third goals should both have been disallowed because there was a player in an offside position?
I think a hybrid would be acceptable, if you're in an offside position in the penalty area then you're offside regardless of "interfering with play". It would solve all the problems of whether they were blocking the keeper's view, in the path of the ball, distracting defenders, etc

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by dsr » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:34 pm

aggi wrote:I think a hybrid would be acceptable, if you're in an offside position in the penalty area then you're offside regardless of "interfering with play". It would solve all the problems of whether they were blocking the keeper's view, in the path of the ball, distracting defenders, etc
Well, the third goal would still be offside because Salah was lying on the floor in the penalty area when it went in. The first is arguable because Salah was off the field, albeit having left from the penalty area - would they allow a player to leave the pitch without permission to gain an advantage?

I don't see any way at all that the laws of football would be improved if those two goals were to be disallowed. Even if it did improve Burnley's record! Can you frame a law that will allow those goals but still take out the controversy of other goals?

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by 4:20 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:45 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:Babylining.
The shame when you were playing cuppies and 20 odd folk screamed "BABYLINER!" at you as you toepoked it in whilst stood waiting in the keepers muddy puddle 2ft from the goal line

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by Dark Cloud » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:49 pm

They have also experimented with moving the "space" on the pitch where you can actually be offside further up the field. i.e. instead of being onside only in your own half, you could be onside until you were either in or down the sides of the penalty area. They tried it in some competition or other and I thought it wasn't such a bad idea, but clearly it didn't work as it was short lived.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by houseboy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:05 pm

There was a time when there was no offside rule (many of the so-called great goal scorers of the past played then, Dixie Dean I think was one, his 60 goals in one season was put down to that I think). I don't think scrapping it would in any way improve the game. The purists who moan about the long ball game would have nightmares, with strikers just hanging around on the goal line waiting for a punt and a defender with him meaning at least two players taking no real part in the game. I think the above post has it spot on in saying that offside should, as it was when I played, be simply offside regardless of the players position and whether he has touched the ball. When I played at school if you wandered past the last defender and the linesman or referee noticed they blew for offside, simples. Much is made of the rules of football but if left alone they are very simple, it's only the dreaded 'interpretation' that makes things difficult, like the ball to hand thing, if it hits your hand it's handball regardless of whether there was 'intent'. I sometimes think they have made things more complicated to give the so-called 'experts' on TV something to talk about.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by houseboy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:07 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:They have also experimented with moving the "space" on the pitch where you can actually be offside further up the field. i.e. instead of being onside only in your own half, you could be onside until you were either in or down the sides of the penalty area. They tried it in some competition or other and I thought it wasn't such a bad idea, but clearly it didn't work as it was short lived.
At one point years ago with the old league in the US they had a line that was about halfway between the halfway line and goal line and you could only be offside on the goal side of that. I don't think that worked very well either.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by aggi » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:23 pm

dsr wrote:Well, the third goal would still be offside because Salah was lying on the floor in the penalty area when it went in. The first is arguable because Salah was off the field, albeit having left from the penalty area - would they allow a player to leave the pitch without permission to gain an advantage?

I don't see any way at all that the laws of football would be improved if those two goals were to be disallowed. Even if it did improve Burnley's record! Can you frame a law that will allow those goals but still take out the controversy of other goals?
It may have been an incentive for Salah to get up quicker ....

It depends whether you prefer allowing goals such as those (although I suspect that if the rules were different then the players wouldn't have been offside) and also allowing stuff such as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nptwXLD ... u.be&t=170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; with a player deemed to be onside even though he could easily distract the keeper.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by exilecanada » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:30 pm

houseboy wrote:At one point years ago with the old league in the US they had a line that was about halfway between the halfway line and goal line and you could only be offside on the goal side of that. I don't think that worked very well either.

If memory serves, FIFA put an end to that idea, citing that if you upstarts want to play our game, you’ll play by our rules, not yours. :D

The Yanks have been known to change rules to suit their own agenda, ya know! :lol:

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by basil6345789 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:43 pm

The purpose is to prevent babylining.
Just go back to the old rules.

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:59 pm

groove wrote:We used to call it 'tartlining'. Anyone else familiar with that term or was it just an Accy thing?
Pretty sure it was tar lining... or is that cos we were posh in 70’s Bash?
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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:02 pm

It was originally brought in because it was hoof, goal scramble, hoof, goal scramble... repeat

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Re: Offside - what's the point, and whatever the point is, is it worth it?

Post by houseboy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:00 am

exilecanada wrote:If memory serves, FIFA put an end to that idea, citing that if you upstarts want to play our game, you’ll play by our rules, not yours. :D

The Yanks have been known to change rules to suit their own agenda, ya know! :lol:
Didn't they have bigger goals at one time as well?

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