Council tax rises where does it all end..

[SmudgetheClaret]

Yet again opened the CT renewal letter only to see the normal £5/6/7 quid added per month ! no letter explaining the reason for the rise no point complaining as I've tried that previously too ,so that totals to around £2280 a year and ok that gives the game away that we are in a decent house in a decent area due to working hard since the age of 16 and the fact that so many able bodied dodgers don't pay a penny makes my blood boil .....

[Jakubclaret]

It's hard work if you got 1 person working & nobody else within that household contributing especially when on the minimum wage.

[Lancasterclaret]

Lets hope the economy doesn't tank as well.

Thank god we haven't done anything to risk that eh?

[SmudgetheClaret]

Granted many people who are just about scraping through my pay little or nothing and I'm cool with that its the won't work brigade im not happy about ..

[Loyalclaret]

Yet again opened the CT renewal letter only to see the normal £5/6/7 quid added per month ! no letter explaining the reason for the rise no point complaining as I've tried that previously too ,so that totals to around £2280 a year and ok that gives the game away that we are in a decent house in a decent area due to working hard since the age of 16 and the fact that so many able bodied dodgers don't pay a penny makes my blood boil .....

Everyone pays council tax.

The council have had their budget cut drastically year on year, only some many cuts before increasing taxes.

Luckily we are only in band B

[Jakubclaret]

Granted many people who are just about scraping through my pay little or nothing and I'm cool with that its the won't work brigade im not happy about ..

My mate was telling me tonight he's been around the job agencies today there's nothing there.

[SmudgetheClaret]

image.png (183.58 KiB) Viewed 4288 times

Lancs look what happened when we joined the "Common market" cough..

[Caballo]

Everything thing has gone up at inflation-ish rates apart from the police nearly 14%, I'm baffled by that.

[South West Claret.]

Yet again opened the CT renewal letter only to see the normal £5/6/7 quid added per month ! no letter explaining the reason for the rise no point complaining as I've tried that previously too ,so that totals to around £2280 a year and ok that gives the game away that we are in a decent house in a decent area due to working hard since the age of 16 and the fact that so many able bodied dodgers don't pay a penny makes my blood boil .....

Did someone mention Tax dodgers well have a read about this.

UK's richest man moves to Monaco to 'save £4bn in tax'

Brexiter Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s company Ineos is reportedly working with PricewaterhouseCoopers to reduce bill

The shadow chancellor John McDonnell said he was ‘really disappointed’ by the decision of Ratcliffe, to move to Monaco.

Britain’s richest man, the Brexit supporter Sir Jim Ratcliffe, and two of his key lieutenants at chemicals firm Ineos have reportedly been planning to save up to £4bn in tax after moving to Monaco.

The company, which is valued at about £35bn, is working with tax experts at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) to create a new structure for the business to dramatically reduce the tax paid on its global revenues, according to the Sunday Times.

Ratcliffe, who has lobbied to weaken green taxes and reduce restrictions on fracking, owns 60% of Ineos, which made profits of more than £2.2bn last year and employs 18,500 people. His top two lieutenants at Ineos, Andy Currie and John Reece, each own 20% of the company worth £7bn and were also reported to be moving to Monaco and involved in the tax avoidance plan.

Read more
It emerged last year that Ratcliffe, the founder and chief executive of Ineos, was preparing to move to the tax-free principality on the Côte d’Azur, but the latest reports indicate exactly how much the three could save – putting the minimum at £440m.

Ratcliffe’s cash-saving shift abroad comes despite vocal support for Brexit in the run-up to the referendum in 2016 when he said: “Never forget that we have a decent set of cards.”

The details of his plans have emerged as the Brexiter James Dyson moves his business base to Singapore. PwC, which was at the heart of the Luxleaks scandal that revealed complex tax avoidance schemes created for clients including Dyson and the drugs firm Shire, has faced criticism for constructing “labyrinthine” tax avoidance structures that have saved clients millions of pounds in saved revenues.

The Liberal Democrat leader, Sir Vince Cable, described Ratcliffe’s move as “deeply cynical”.

“The idea we should be dishing out knighthoods to people who have no commitment to this country is rather shameful,” he told the Sunday Times.

John McDonnell MP, the shadow chancellor, said he was “really disappointed” by Ratcliffe’s move to Monaco to save tax.

“I’m amazed, as this is a super-rich person. We’re not talking about someone who is on his uppers or something like that.

“For every penny that is avoided in this way in taxation, what does that mean? It means actually the NHS doesn’t treat patients as well as they could, it means our children don’t get the full investment in their education and it means less safety on our streets

“I just appeal to people like this, this is a great country to live in, just make your contribution like the rest of us.”

Prem Sikka, a professor of accounting and finance at the University of Sheffield, said Ineos could employ a range of structures to reduce tax such as diverting dividends to Monaco, where they would not be liable for UK tax, to schemes in which inter-company loans or royalty fees reduced the profits of the UK-based business, diverting cash to offshore tax havens.

In 2010, Ratcliffe moved Ineos’s official head office to Switzerland for six years after a row with the government over tax.

“There are numerous possibilities for shifting profits and Ineos is no stranger to these things,” he said. In 2010, Ratcliffe moved Ineos’s official head office to Switzerland for six years after a row with the government over tax.

Robert Palmer, the executive director of campaigning group Tax Justice UK, said it was “sad” that Ratcliffe had “put his own greed ahead of contributing to this country. It just reinforces the feeling that lots of people have that the economy is not geared for them. Lots of people are feeling left behind and this helps reinforce that idea that the rules are not written for them but for wealthy individuals.”

PwC declined to comment on the reports, which suggested the advisory firm had considered quitting. “PwC can confirm it did not consider there was any reason to terminate its relationship with Ineos,” a spokesperson told the Sunday Times.

According to the Ineos annual report for 2017, the most recent available on its website, PwC received £5.1m in fees from Ineos that year, slightly down from £5.8m a year before. The fees included £1.7m related to tax advice compared to £700,000 for auditing its annual accounts.

Ratcliffe was ranked the UK’s richest person in May after he contacted the editor of the Sunday Times rich list to complain that his wealth had been drastically underestimated.

The list increased its estimate of his wealth by £15.3bn to £21bn, catapulting him from 18th to top of the list, after he provided access to the privately held accounts of Ineos, which he founded in 1998. The newspaper also increased its valuation of his mansion near Beaulieu in the New Forest, and his two superyachts, called Hampshire and Hampshire II.

Ineos did not respond to requests for a comment.

[NickBFC]

Had our 'demand' renewal through today. A mere 5.6% increase, just over £3,100 for the year. It's outrageous, as a mate of mine says "legalised mafia".

[Paul Waine]

Did someone mention Tax dodgers well have a read about this.

UK's richest man moves to Monaco to 'save £4bn in tax'

Brexiter Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s company Ineos is reportedly working with PricewaterhouseCoopers to reduce bill

Ineos did not respond to requests for a comment.

Keep up, SWC. All that was reported in The Times, last week.

Apparently, some of these billionaires have been leaving the UK for years. One of then was apparently born in Switzerland - and is "avoiding UK tax" by living in Switzerland. Yes, that's really good journalism.

I think The Times also mentioned how much JR's business, Ineos, was investing in the UK - and how much he's recently announced his firm will invest in Belgium.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

My mate was telling me tonight he's been around the job agencies today there's nothing there.

Well that’s not the truth, there may be nothing he fancies, but there’s always work

[Jakubclaret]

Well that’s not the truth, there may be nothing he fancies, but there’s always work

Well no not really, he doesn't drive & if the job is a 6am start, cycling is to far out & it's not financially viable for a taxi, I guess there's a argument there it's his fault for not having a driving license. I believe him there was nothing today it's very sporadic in terms of work suitability & availability.

[South West Claret.]

“Keep up, SWC. All that was reported in The Times, last week... Irrelevant.

Just read the content of the post and comment on that, and that go’s for anyone else who would rather moan about someone not wanting to take part in the “low wage rip-off Britain” culture.

[basil6345789]

Lets hope the economy doesn't tank as well.

Thank god we haven't done anything to risk that eh?

The sooner we get rid of OJEU the sooner we get home contracts back on board.

[basil6345789]

Did someone mention Tax dodgers well have a read about this.

UK's richest man moves to Monaco to 'save £4bn in tax'

Brexiter Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s company Ineos is reportedly working with PricewaterhouseCoopers to reduce bill

The shadow chancellor John McDonnell said he was ‘really disappointed’ by the decision of Ratcliffe, to move to Monaco.

Britain’s richest man, the Brexit supporter Sir Jim Ratcliffe, and two of his key lieutenants at chemicals firm Ineos have reportedly been planning to save up to £4bn in tax after moving to Monaco.

The company, which is valued at about £35bn, is working with tax experts at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) to create a new structure for the business to dramatically reduce the tax paid on its global revenues, according to the Sunday Times.

Ratcliffe, who has lobbied to weaken green taxes and reduce restrictions on fracking, owns 60% of Ineos, which made profits of more than £2.2bn last year and employs 18,500 people. His top two lieutenants at Ineos, Andy Currie and John Reece, each own 20% of the company worth £7bn and were also reported to be moving to Monaco and involved in the tax avoidance plan.

Read more
It emerged last year that Ratcliffe, the founder and chief executive of Ineos, was preparing to move to the tax-free principality on the Côte d’Azur, but the latest reports indicate exactly how much the three could save – putting the minimum at £440m.

Ratcliffe’s cash-saving shift abroad comes despite vocal support for Brexit in the run-up to the referendum in 2016 when he said: “Never forget that we have a decent set of cards.”

The details of his plans have emerged as the Brexiter James Dyson moves his business base to Singapore. PwC, which was at the heart of the Luxleaks scandal that revealed complex tax avoidance schemes created for clients including Dyson and the drugs firm Shire, has faced criticism for constructing “labyrinthine” tax avoidance structures that have saved clients millions of pounds in saved revenues.

The Liberal Democrat leader, Sir Vince Cable, described Ratcliffe’s move as “deeply cynical”.

“The idea we should be dishing out knighthoods to people who have no commitment to this country is rather shameful,” he told the Sunday Times.

John McDonnell MP, the shadow chancellor, said he was “really disappointed” by Ratcliffe’s move to Monaco to save tax.

“I’m amazed, as this is a super-rich person. We’re not talking about someone who is on his uppers or something like that.

“For every penny that is avoided in this way in taxation, what does that mean? It means actually the NHS doesn’t treat patients as well as they could, it means our children don’t get the full investment in their education and it means less safety on our streets

“I just appeal to people like this, this is a great country to live in, just make your contribution like the rest of us.”

Prem Sikka, a professor of accounting and finance at the University of Sheffield, said Ineos could employ a range of structures to reduce tax such as diverting dividends to Monaco, where they would not be liable for UK tax, to schemes in which inter-company loans or royalty fees reduced the profits of the UK-based business, diverting cash to offshore tax havens.

In 2010, Ratcliffe moved Ineos’s official head office to Switzerland for six years after a row with the government over tax.

“There are numerous possibilities for shifting profits and Ineos is no stranger to these things,” he said. In 2010, Ratcliffe moved Ineos’s official head office to Switzerland for six years after a row with the government over tax.

Robert Palmer, the executive director of campaigning group Tax Justice UK, said it was “sad” that Ratcliffe had “put his own greed ahead of contributing to this country. It just reinforces the feeling that lots of people have that the economy is not geared for them. Lots of people are feeling left behind and this helps reinforce that idea that the rules are not written for them but for wealthy individuals.”

PwC declined to comment on the reports, which suggested the advisory firm had considered quitting. “PwC can confirm it did not consider there was any reason to terminate its relationship with Ineos,” a spokesperson told the Sunday Times.

According to the Ineos annual report for 2017, the most recent available on its website, PwC received £5.1m in fees from Ineos that year, slightly down from £5.8m a year before. The fees included £1.7m related to tax advice compared to £700,000 for auditing its annual accounts.

Ratcliffe was ranked the UK’s richest person in May after he contacted the editor of the Sunday Times rich list to complain that his wealth had been drastically underestimated.

The list increased its estimate of his wealth by £15.3bn to £21bn, catapulting him from 18th to top of the list, after he provided access to the privately held accounts of Ineos, which he founded in 1998. The newspaper also increased its valuation of his mansion near Beaulieu in the New Forest, and his two superyachts, called Hampshire and Hampshire II.

Ineos did not respond to requests for a comment.

Spot on but a different disease.
Localised dodgers result in fewer people having to shoulder the burden of the total C Tax cost.

[South West Claret.]

Not at all get the few very very wealthy scrounges at the top to pay their fair wack first then we can discuss the rest.

[nil_desperandum]

Everything thing has gone up at inflation-ish rates apart from the police nearly 14%, I'm baffled by that.

Why?
Have you not been following the important debate about this.
Essentially there is a £5.9 million budget shortfall due to govt policy, and the tax rise will meet the costs of an additional 90 officers in the County which will go some way to restoring numbers lost over the past few years. (Over 800 officers and 350 civilian staff).
There was a consultation and apparently two thirds of 4,000 respondents support this.
https://www.2br.co.uk/news/local-news/2 ... re-police/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bobinho]

Lets hope the economy doesn't tank as well.

Thank god we haven't done anything to risk that eh?

Bore off...

[damo_whitehead]

I live in Barnsley and council taxes have risen by 4.49% Really not gone down well as the town came out as one of the hardest hit by austerity

[IanMcL]

Government have removed most of the grant to councils now. Not even enough money for statutory services.

Police decided it was a good bet to put up their rates hugely, on the basis of "You get more coppers for your pounds". (See what did there?!)

Aim your venom at the Tory government, which has been able boast of no income tax rises, simply because they passed loads of tasks to local gov, and stole their grant funding, which they are supposed to pay, for essential services council tax was for the additional, wanted services, primarily.

[Caballo]

Why?
Have you not been following the important debate about this.
Essentially there is a £5.9 million budget shortfall due to govt policy, and the tax rise will meet the costs of an additional 90 officers in the County which will go some way to restoring numbers lost over the past few years. (Over 800 officers and 350 civilian staff).
There was a consultation and apparently two thirds of 4,000 respondents support this.
https://www.2br.co.uk/news/local-news/2 ... re-police/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Clearly not nil, otherwise I would have understood the reason for the rise.

[Lancasterclaret]

Bore off...

Too complicated for some, I get it.

But the reality of what you voted for is now in plain sight.

[Jakubclaret]

Too complicated for some, I get it.

But the reality of what you voted for is now in plain sight.

You do get carried away for no reason, the reality to a end to a ongoing nightmare is indeed in plain sight.

[taio]

Too complicated for some, I get it.

But the reality of what you voted for is now in plain sight.

I don't think it's too complicated for bobinho - certainly no more complicated for him than you or I. He was merely making the point that you often try to weave brexit into any thread. You've even done it on threads about football. This is one if the reasons why people want to see a separate message board for politics related threads.

[Jakubclaret]

I don't think it's too complicated for bobinho - certainly no more complicated for him than you or I. He was merely making the point that you often try to weave brexit into any thread. You've even done it on threads about football. This is one if the reasons why people want to see a separate message board for politics related threads.

Exactly that's 1 of the main reasons why people were getting p155ed of I suspect, it is possible to isolate certain things which aren't related despite most things inadvertently crossing, becoming conscious when posting eliminates or at the very least minimises it.

[Lancasterclaret]

Often?

Don't think so

If you are looking out for it, you might well say "often". But I don't know why anyone would do that. What would be the point of that?

And its pretty clear that council tax rises are linked to many factors, of which the economy is most definitely one.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Council tax goes up while in the EU, "yeah but at least the money we are paying goes locally"

Council tax goes up while leaving the EU, "this is what you voted for"

Jesus such a blinkered stance.

[Lancasterclaret]

Ah well, complain to the mods about it.

Someone always complains on the Brexit threads which guaranteed them to get deleted, which was handy if you were a brexiteer who'd been made to look very silly on them.

I give less than two shits either way to be honest.

As I've said before, the political stuff is nothing compared the racist and homophobic stuff that regularly gets stuck on here by the cave dwellers.

[Imploding Turtle]

Yet again opened the CT renewal letter only to see the normal £5/6/7 quid added per month ! no letter explaining the reason for the rise no point complaining as I've tried that previously too ,so that totals to around £2280 a year and ok that gives the game away that we are in a decent house in a decent area due to working hard since the age of 16 and the fact that so many able bodied dodgers don't pay a penny makes my blood boil .....

Yeah, blame poor people and not the rich people buying up land and not developing it because developing it would increase their Council Tax. Also, you know that choosing to live in a decent property means higher Council Tax and instead of complaining about how you are being penalised by the tax system while land owners get subsidies by you, you're blaming poor people like the UI that you are.

[Lancasterclaret]

Jesus such a blinkered stance.

Or a one line post because I can't arsed explaining to those who don't want to know about how all this is linked together?

You decide mate

I'm pretty confident that spending ten minutes of my time explaining this to Jakub (for example) is a colossal waste of time.

[taio]

Often?

Don't think so

If you are looking out for it, you might well say "often". But I don't know why anyone would do that. What would be the point of that?

And its pretty clear that council tax rises are linked to many factors, of which the economy is most definitely one.

Seen multiple brexit references on unrelated threads, including football. It's hardly looking out for it viewing a topic that has no reason to include the subject meaning it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Or a one line post because I can't arsed explaining to those who don't want to know about how all this is linked together?

You decide mate

I'm pretty confident that spending ten minutes of my time explaining this to Jakub (for example) is a colossal waste of time.

Then surely it is easier to not respond, I get your views and you would rather remain but you can't live a life blaming everything on brexit. Nobody is going to change their mind on something like this by what is said on here.

Some people want to leave, some want to remain yet the biggest group is probably those who don't care what happens so long as it is over very soon.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The biggest increases in council taxes happened under Labour when it pretty much doubled from 1997-2010, but it would appear that it's white washed from history on here by some, because it wasn't the Tories.

Yeah Tories froze it for a few years, which was probably a bad idea in hindsight, so a rise again was inevitable.

Would appear neither party can find a middle ground when it comes to a rise in council tax.

[Falcon]

The truth is that due to cuts from on high from central government most of our borough councils (and certainly LCC) are very close to going bust. Key services are crumbling, staff aren't being replaced when they leave and morale is at an all time low. The only way out of it for them is increasing council tax, certainly whilst the government continue to pursue their austerity project.

Don't blame the councils, blame the government. Austerity has failed, and needs binning off pronto.

[9thMay1987]

I pay Band D Pendle - £1.9K going up to £2K . Bins collected fortnightly and monthly.

A lad I grew up with now lives in Surrey, also Band D. Same 3 bedroom semi (but valued 3 times more than mine). He pays £1.4K bins collected weekly and fortnightly.

Why do we in the north continually pay more for less??

[karatekid]

Why isn't the council tax based on income? People's ability to pay can vary wildly since the purchase of their property.

[Lancasterclaret]

Apologies all btw

Bit grumpy this morning and shouldn't have got involved.

[South West Claret.]

Why isn't the council tax based on income? People's ability to pay can vary wildly since the purchase of their property.

Because the very very well off wouldn't like it one bit, the Poll Tax (as it was referred to at the time) was to milk the less well off and Fairness had nothing to do with .

Remember it was Thatcher who drove it.

[Hipper]

I pay Band D Pendle - £1.9K going up to £2K . Bins collected fortnightly and monthly.

A lad I grew up with now lives in Surrey, also Band D. Same 3 bedroom semi (but valued 3 times more than mine). He pays £1.4K bins collected weekly and fortnightly.

Why do we in the north continually pay more for less??

Council tax for each area is based on money needed by the local authorities, not your housing band. The housing band is only used to divide up the amounts claimed within an area. Therefore the comparison between your and another areas property has no relevance.

Of course there may be an argument that the government grants to councils are not fairly distributed.

[Hipper]

Why isn't the council tax based on income? People's ability to pay can vary wildly since the purchase of their property.

You mean like a poll tax?

[Melbourneclaret]

Wow some of these figures seem very expensive. Not lived in UK for while but our equivalent rates in Melbourne are around £750. We get broadly the same services included as you do in uk.

[Bosscat]

Wow some of these figures seem very expensive. Not lived in UK for while but our equivalent rates in Melbourne are around £750. We get broadly the same services included as you do in uk.

Swings and roundabouts Melbourne m8 ...

We have a programme on TV here about folk wishing to emigrate to OZ.... called 'Wanted Down-under"

Part of it is comparing living costs and overall its more expensive over there (wages tend to be better which cancels that out) some things foodwise a lot lot more expensive and other things such as rates a lot less....

[Ooogeorgeorgeoghani]

I pay Band D Pendle - £1.9K going up to £2K . Bins collected fortnightly and monthly.

A lad I grew up with now lives in Surrey, also Band D. Same 3 bedroom semi (but valued 3 times more than mine). He pays £1.4K bins collected weekly and fortnightly.

Why do we in the north continually pay more for less??

Living in a poverty stricken areas the council out lay is always going to be more than affluent areas hence the more tax we pay , it's a lose lose situation , poor service delivery and higher taxes !

[Melbourneclaret]

Swings and roundabouts Melbourne m8 ...

We have a programme on TV here about folk wishing to emigrate to OZ.... called 'Wanted Down-under"

Part of it is comparing living costs and overall its more expensive over there (wages tend to be better which cancels that out) some things foodwise a lot lot more expensive and other things such as rates a lot less....

I think it’s cheaper actually. Wages are much higher, petrol half the price and food no different, in fact meat is cheaper. Beer is the only thing I find much more expensive. I miss the days of pints for £2

[ClaretEngineer]

Why isn't the council tax based on income? People's ability to pay can vary wildly since the purchase of their property.

I too don’t understand why the size of your property affects how much you have to give the council. There are no service level difference between tax bands, so why should one pay anymore than another?

[nil_desperandum]

Clearly not nil, otherwise I would have understood the reason for the rise.

Fair enough.
Maybe I worded it a bit unfortunately, but it's just that the issue of the shortfall in Police funding, cuts of over 1,000 in numbers in Lancs, rising crime and un-funded government pledges to increase numbers has been widely debated, and an above inflation rise to that particular area of Council Tax will have come as no surprise to many..

[IanMcL]

The biggest increases in council taxes happened under Labour when it pretty much doubled from 1997-2010, but it would appear that it's white washed from history on here by some, because it wasn't the Tories.

Yeah Tories froze it for a few years, which was probably a bad idea in hindsight, so a rise again was inevitable.

Would appear neither party can find a middle ground when it comes to a rise in council tax.

To increase local services and meet the needs expressed by the people, after services had been run down and limited investment by years of tory government.

We never learn!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

To increase local services and meet the needs expressed by the people, after services had been run down and limited investment by years of tory government.

We never learn!

You're right we don't learn from that of from Labour chucking money around like confetti.

Neither side are fit for the job but their followers are blinded by loyalty.

[nil_desperandum]

The biggest increases in council taxes happened under Labour when it pretty much doubled from 1997-2010, but it would appear that it's white washed from history on here by some, because it wasn't the Tories.

Don't know whether or not your assertion for that 14 year period is correct, but let's assume that it is.
You have to bear in mind that inflation during that period stood at something between 4 and 5% each year, so after 14 years it would have had to go up by well over 50% just to keep pace with inflation, so not quite so dramatic as it appears.