Bloody Sunday : One Soldier To Be Charged

[ElectroClaret]

BBC.. .Not enough evidence to charge others, but he will be charged with two murders and four attempted murders.

[Tribesmen]

Looks like one is going to be charged for killing two people .

[Pstotto]

Meanwhile... "All Kinds of everything, remind me of you" Birmingham and Deal and... And Warrington and Warren Point too... do do do do do do do, that says that I LOVE YOU..."

If you look at the videos of the thugs goading the army, all those faces could be identified quite easily.

Strange political timing given the Brexit situation.

[ElectroClaret]

All legal costs of the soldier to be prosecuted are to be paid by the government, and he will be "fully supported."(Gavin Williamson, defence secretary)

[Pstotto]

How does that fit with the freeing of terrorist murderers as part of the Good Friday Agreement? Is that not cake-and-eat it?

[Corky]

This subject is far to controversial to be on a footy site. I was going to try and add some comment but I haven't the time or the patience.

[Imploding Turtle]

Disgraceful. It’s almost like the truth and reconciliation exercise, the early release of Republican and Nationalist murderers and the Good Friday Agreement never happened. If they’re going to prosecute a soldier who was effectively in a war zone reminiscent of Kosovo, then let’s prosecute John Downey, the fu*king remorseless cowardly c*nt who still hasn’t been brought to justice over the murder of four innocent people in the Hyde Park Barracks bombing in 1982.

Truth and reconciliation works both ways. This is about getting to the truth of what happened, is it not? Isn't that the point of the "truth" part of truth and reconciliation?

[Sausage]

We know the truth courtesy of the Saville Report.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Regrettably, I think this court case needs to happen.

It won't stop the current lot sending their letter bombs, nor will it bring about the prosecution of former/current IRA members for their actions, but it does need to happen.

It was a complete white wash by the government/army and has always reared its head since and I suspect made things in Ireland far worse than it would've been.

[Imploding Turtle]

We know the truth courtesy of the Saville Report.

Name one of the guilty soldiers.

[SmudgetheClaret]

BBC.. .Not enough evidence to charge others, but he will be charged with two murders and four attempted murders.

and dont you love it...

[Sausage]

Name one of the guilty soldiers.

I can't and you know I can't.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I can't and you know I can't.

Sensible answer to a stupid question.

[Imploding Turtle]

I can't and you know I can't.

That was my point. Neither you nor I know who is responsible for the deaths of any of those people.

[Imploding Turtle]

Sensible answer to a stupid question.

It wasn't a stupid question, you just didn't understand its purpose. The purpose being to point out that we can't know the full truth of what happened if we don't know who is responsible for any of it.

[bobinho]

Is he at it again?

[elwaclaret]

I’m all for defending our armed forces but when two of those killed where shot in the back and another is a 14 year old boy some of the comments on here are outrageous. When members of the paras have testified that their colleagues where picking targets randomly and “putting them down” it smacks of murder not war. Yes the stress levels would have been through the roof, but the paras exceeded the orders by a mile. It is a national disgrace this has taken so, and been covered up for so long.

It was the making of he IRA who up until then were a very minor group, but within six months were blowing up Britain at will. Check dates... people wont because they’d rather remain ignorant of facts and work on emotion.

[Herts Clarets]

I’m all for defending our armed forces but when two of those killed where shot in the back and another is a 14 year old boy some of the comments on here are outrageous. When members of the paras have testified that their colleagues where picking targets randomly and “putting them down” it smacks of murder not war. Yes the stress levels would have been through the roof, but the paras exceeded the orders by a mile. It is a national disgrace this has taken so, and been covered up for so long.

It was the making of he IRA who up until then were a very minor group, but within six months were blowing up Britain at will. Check dates... people wont because they’d rather remain ignorant of facts and work on emotion.

Where as of course the freedom fighters of the IRA only ever targeted legitimate military personnel. Like 3 year old Jonathan Ball and 12 year old Tim Parry in the war zone of lunchtime Warrington back in the 1990s.

Good job no more innocents were killed on Bloody Sunday too. Like the 'politician' Martin McGuinness, the second in command in Londonderry that day, who had issued bomb parts that morning to attack parts of the city and is widely acknowledged to have been on the streets armed with a machine gun. Live by the sword etc.

[elwaclaret]

Where as of course the freedom fighters of the IRA only ever targeted legitimate military personnel. Like 3 year old Jonathan Ball and 12 year old Tim Parry in the war zone of lunchtime Warrington back in the 1990s.

Good job no more innocents were killed on Bloody Sunday too. Like the 'politician' Martin McGuinness, the second in command in Londonderry that day, who had issued bomb parts that morning to attack parts of the city and is widely acknowledged to have been on the streets armed with a machine gun. Live by the sword etc.

So if you went along to see what was going on in a Burnley disturbance, you deserve to be shot dead because there are rumours there are or may be idiots with guns? Ok

Or could these rumours possibly be a reaction that the Paras went far beyond their orders and ended up murdering British subjects in their own town?

[elwaclaret]

People either forget or have never bothered to find out that the army was sent in to defend RC’s from Protestant atrocities and were welcome by the Catholic communities...the political landscape and the votes were needed resulted in a flip.

IRA atrocities started AFTER Bloody Sunday not before, but of course it was in no way a reaction that they went from a couple of hundred strong to millions pouring in from sympathisers around the world for no reason.

[IanMcL]

Government and Army did not do well, in these circumstances. The Parachute Regiment is trained to do many things...mostly go where no one ought and risk their lives. Killing, to survive, being paramount.

Not the folk you send in to monitor a march/demonstration.

Scapegoat found, after all these years. Just the one mind.

[Spike]

all the mass murderers were freed .No soldier should be jailed

[claret wizard]

It was 47 years ago.
There's convicted terrorists who have been released and suspected terrorists who aren't being prosecuted. That was the price of peace and the Good Friday Agreement has mostly delivered that. Why this can't be treated under the same auspicious and put to bed I don't understand. Just look at the comments on the thread above this post, it just brings out all the old wounds and divisions. Out of the announcement today 2 families feel like they have got somewhere, but how a conviction can possibly be secured with most people who witnessed that day long gone, and the few who remain recalling stuff from 47 years ago.

[Sausage]

all the mass murderers were freed .No soldier should be jailed

It's more nuanced than this. The terms of the Good Friday Agreement were that those people who had been convicted and were serving time in prison would be released. Their convictions remain; they have not been pardoned. The Good Friday Agreement did not grant an amnesty for people whose crimes have not been prosecuted, whether they occurred before or after the signing of the Agreement. My point, expressed above, is that justice can only work if it is fair. By fair, I mean applied equally to all sides. There are understood to be 187* IRA terrorists who have been issued with letters of immunity by the UK Government or agencies of the UK Government, for crimes which have never been prosecuted. If it is right to prosecute one soldier, then it is right to prosecute as many of the 187 IRA terrorists as possible too.

However, I want peace in Northern Ireland. I don't think peace can hold while people are committed to prosecuting people for events that happened 47 years ago. There comes a point when the injustices on all sides have to be recognised - as they are in the Saville Report - and simply left well alone.


*No, Imploding Turtle, I can't name them.

[elwaclaret]

It was 47 years ago.
There's convicted terrorists who have been released and suspected terrorists who aren't being prosecuted. That was the price of peace and the Good Friday Agreement has mostly delivered that. Why this can't be treated under the same auspicious and put to bed I don't understand. Just look at the comments on the thread above this post, it just brings out all the old wounds and divisions. Out of the announcement today 2 families feel like they have got somewhere, but how a conviction can possibly be secured with most people who witnessed that day long gone, and the few who remain recalling stuff from 47 years ago.

I take your point... but if it had been your family member would you make the same argument?

[claret wizard]

I take your point... but if it had been your family member would you make the same argument?

I had two mates killed by the IRA whilst in the Forces. So yes. A line needs to be drawn under this.

[Imploding Turtle]

I had two mates killed by the IRA whilst in the Forces. So yes. A line needs to be drawn under this.

And it will be, by a trial. If this guy is a murderer then we (the public) deserve to know what he did, and he deserves the it that we know what he did.

[claret wizard]

And it will be, by a trial. If this guy is a murderer then we (the public) deserve to know what he did, and he deserves the it that we know what he did.

Guess you've not read my post above. It's this argument that sees us digging up all the past unpunished atrocities and it all continues again. Whilst the Good Friday agreement was not an Amnesty in many cases it has been seen to be one.

[Dark Cloud]

And it will be, by a trial. If this guy is a murderer then we (the public) deserve to know what he did, and he deserves the it that we know what he did.

But people on all sides were murderers and those on certain sides have been told they won't face prosecution for what they did. How is that fair?
(Plus, as far as I can make out, these soldiers were definitely under fire. They may have overreacted and they may have ultimately shot back at the wrong people by mistake, but I'm certain it's a very difficult assessment to make when bullets are coming your way and you are scared the next one will hit you)

[Imploding Turtle]

But people on all sides were murderers and those on certain sides have been told they won't face prosecution for what they did. How is that fair?
(Plus, as far as I can make out, these soldiers were definitely under fire. They may have overreacted and they may have ultimately shot back at the wrong people by mistake, but I'm certain it's a very difficult assessment to make when bullets are coming your way and you are scared the next one will hit you)

Those assertions don't appear to be supported by the conclusions of the Saville inquiry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Su ... onclusions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dark Cloud]

Those assertions don't appear to be supported by the conclusions of the Saville inquiry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Su ... onclusions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you IT and I have read the link. However I still think that my opening sentence is the nub of the issue for the majority of fair minded people and also I am slightly cynical and do wonder how much pressure the Saville inquiry was under to come up with answers that sat well with the Nationalist community and didn't rock the burgeoning peace process.

[Pearcey]

I like the way some people on here think it’s a simple case of someone being a Murderer. Northern Ireland was a horrendous place to be for any British soldier deployed there. With a massive crowd amassed and tensions extremely high, it’s hardly surprising that something happened. The CO from the time still insists they were under attack. Let’s not forget the amount of soldiers that had already been killed. I’m not saying a grave mistake wasn’t made but I’m not sure murder is the right charge.

I come from Deal in Kent and have witnessed the horror and tragedy of an IRA bomb. They do not care who they kill.

[Stayingup]

Lawyers will be rubbing their hands pound note signs in their eyes. Disgraceful this given known killers have immunity from prosecution. In a way sums up the sad current state of this country. Potty

[mdd2]

Name one of the guilty soldiers.

There are no guilty soldiers since none has been tried in front of a judge and jury of a crime yet.

[Imploding Turtle]

There are no guilty soldiers since none has been tried in front of a judge and jury of a crime yet.

Indeed.

[Espia]

I'm sorry but if we going to resurrect this soldier going on trial for something that may or may not have happened 47 years ago then we will also have to rescind all those letters to the "On the Runs" who were effectively told that although they could just as easily be guilty of whatever this soldier is accused of they will not be pursued , and thus effectively pardoned/excused.

And therein lies the trouble with this prosecution. We either let the ethos of the peace process continue, for the greater good, or we rake up all the horrors of the past for everyone suspected of crimes and just sit back and see where that takes us. My guess is it won't be pretty.

[JarrowClaret]

I don’t see how Soldier F will be able to get a fare trial in Ireland everyone in the Country will already have an opinion on Bloody Sunday borne from there Political/ Religious background. I am torn with this issue in that as an ex Soldier I don’t want any Soldiers/ former Soldiers tried for there actions serving Queen and Country. On the other hand I think we do need closure and to determine whether Soldier F and ultimately 1 Paras actions that day were justified and the result was part of a grave mistake or not. I don’t believe for 1 minute that there wasn’t provocation by the IRA on that day no matter what any report says, but was there enough?