Shootings at a Mosque in Christchurch, NZ

[Imploding Turtle]

https://imgur.com/a/TpbQY3P

https://imgur.com/a/OQPLh5r

Apparently this is his manifesto which shows how much his mind was warped.

skimmed it very quickly. Spotted "ethnic replacement". How much you wanna bet he's a Great Replacement nut job?

If you're wondering wtf i'm talking about then I envy you. But also, heres how you can find out without having your mind poisoned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbxVfSqtt8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mdd2]

It is bad enough at times seeing it when it is not for real Lancaster-especially for me when it is about modern warfare like Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the NI troubles.

[TheFamilyCat]

The problem will remain "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" although where Isis and this fits is hard to fathom. But it is not just Isis is it? Al qaeda, Boko Haram and many others around the World, plus the Shia v Sunni massacres. We are presently in largely Muslim brutal world having moved on largely from Christian, although we have Buddhist-v Muslim Hindu-v-Muslim causing untold misery to millions of innocents.
Eventually calm will come with these sections but others will spring up until one of the group of freedom fighters gets a nuclear bomb

I don’t know who first said “one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist” but it is complete ********. But while people keep quoting and believing it, someone will use it to justify acts like this.

(I’m not accusing you of justifying it btw. You questioned where ISIS and this fits, which helps to prove that it’s a ******** of a phrase)

[scrambledclaret]

He got kicked out of the racist party for being too racist? Fair play to him, that is some achievement.

Yeah, he managed to be condemned for that speech by Pauline Hanson, the leader of a sort of BNP-like party and formerly Australia's leading racist. He has also used tax payer funds to attend far right gatherings. Sadly, Australia is a much less welcoming place than the one I left fifteen years ago.

[theroyaldyche]

The vids doin the rounds this morning

Awful

[bfccrazy]

skimmed it very quickly. Spotted "ethnic replacement". How much you wanna bet he's a Great Replacement nut job?

If you're wondering wtf i'm talking about then I envy you. But also, heres how you can find out without having your mind poisoned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbxVfSqtt8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, seems to follow that sort of ideology.

Just discussing with mates how it seems almost like a computer game these days when these things happen. It’s crazy how desensitised people are becoming to these things happening and it’ll only get worse IMO.

[Lancasterclaret]

By watching it, you are doing exactly what this sick **** wants you to do.

[bobinho]

terrorism
/ˈtɛrərɪzəm/

noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Has there been a declaration of a political aim?

Have you redefined the meaning of terrorism?

This is murder, plain and simple. No bombs planted, no buildings blown up with the aim of getting people to bow to their will, it’s just murder. And it’s a ******* disgrace.
As long as people feel the need to attach themselves to something like a religion, this will happen.

[Imploding Turtle]

terrorism
/ˈtɛrərɪzəm/

noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Has there been a declaration of a political aim?

Have you redefined the meaning of terrorism?

This is murder, plain and simple. No bombs planted, no buildings blown up with the aim of getting people to bow to their will, it’s just murder. And it’s a ******* disgrace.
As long as people feel the need to attach themselves to something like a religion, this will happen.

If this isn't terrorism then neither was the Manchester bomber.

Jesus, can you imagine if someone tried to claim that the Manchester bombing wasn't terrorism on here in the hours after it?

[Lancasterclaret]

Why don't you just condemn it as a terrorist attack?

Its not that ******* hard is it?

[Erasmus]

I think the phrase 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' emerged over Ronald Reagan's backing for terrorists in Nicaragua trying to overthrow the left-wing government. Reagan described them as freedom fighters although their actions in murdering civilians were those of terrorists.

[Walton]

terrorism
/ˈtɛrərɪzəm/

noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Has there been a declaration of a political aim?

Have you redefined the meaning of terrorism?

This is murder, plain and simple. No bombs planted, no buildings blown up with the aim of getting people to bow to their will, it’s just murder. And it’s a ******* disgrace.
As long as people feel the need to attach themselves to something like a religion, this will happen.

Brenton Tarrant literally published a manifesto prior to carrying out this massacre. He stated his motivations were to 'create an atmosphere of fear' and to 'incite violence' against muslims. He paid tribute to Breivik, Osborne, Dylan Roof and more.

[Lord Beamish]

Brenton Tarrant literally published a manifesto prior to carrying out this massacre. He stated his motivations were to 'create an atmosphere of fear' and to 'incite violence' against muslims. He paid tribute to Breivik, Osborne, Dylan Roof and more.

It’s bad enough that someone tries a weaselling semantic argument, but it’s even worse when they are so plainly wrong with it.(In reference to Bobinho’s lamentable post).

[Walton]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... h-shooting

[Lord Beamish]

Have you changed your stance, Bobinho?

[Imploding Turtle]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... h-shooting

Oh.

"Tarrant, an Australian citizen who is believed to come from the northern New South Wales town of Grafton, entitles his document ‘The Great Replacement’"

I guess i could have just read the title.

[Rick_Muller]

Just watched the 16 minute video, wouldn’t recommend it. It’s knocked me sick to the pit of my stomach, evil animal

I'm interested where you found the footage, all mainstream media have been doing all they can to remove it from public consumption. I'm not actually sure how I feel about censorship like that if I am honest, but thats a debate for another day I'm sure.

[Imploding Turtle]

I'm interested where you found the footage, all mainstream media have been doing all they can to remove it from public consumption. I'm not actually sure how I feel about censorship like that if I am honest, but thats a debate for another day I'm sure.

liveleak will have it, and according to Carole Cadwalladr on Twitter there are several YouTube videos copies of it.

[Lord Beamish]

Just watched the 16 minute video, wouldn’t recommend it. It’s knocked me sick to the pit of my stomach, evil animal

Why on earth would anyone choose to watch this? What were you actually expecting?
This is the worst kind of faux outrage, rubber-necking.

[Lancasterclaret]

As soon as its taken down, someone else (probably a free speech advocate whose turned his brain off for the day) uploads it.

[Imploding Turtle]

Why on earth would anyone choose to watch this? What were you actually expecting?
This is the worst kind of faux outrage, rubber-necking.

Faux outrage would be to watch it and then be outraged that he filmed it. There's nothing wrong with saying that it turned your stomach to watch it.

It's not automatically terrible to watch it. If you're watching it because you enjoy it then sure, but for some people watching it helps them understand what happened, how frightening it must have been and also what people are capable of.

[Lancasterclaret]

Call me weird, but knowing he's killed 40 people is all I need to know how scary and **** it would have been to be there.

And as watching it is exactly what he wants you to do makes it an even bigger No No

[nil_desperandum]

I don’t know who first said “one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist” but it is complete ********. But while people keep quoting and believing it, someone will use it to justify acts like this.

(I’m not accusing you of justifying it btw. You questioned where ISIS and this fits, which helps to prove that it’s a ******** of a phrase)

I don't think it's as simple as that tbh.
Point one: I don't condone violence of any kind in pursuit of an ideology or political aim, but it's easy to find examples where the edges are blurred.
No one would now suggest for example that the suffragette cause was not a just one, but were they terrorists? Yes they were under most people's definition.
Moving a bit more extreme: Mandela?
And you can continue down this route until you get to Osama Bin Laden etc. etc.

So I don't think you can just dismiss as nonsense the "link" between freedom fighter and terrorist.

[ClaretAndJew]

bobinho should be banned from here for those views. Disgusting.

[TheFamilyCat]

Faux outrage would be to watch it and then be outraged that he filmed it. There's nothing wrong with saying that it turned your stomach to watch it.

It's not automatically terrible to watch it. If you're watching it because you enjoy it then sure, but for some people watching it helps them understand what happened, how frightening it must have been and also what people are capable of.

I’m not sure I need to watch it to help understand those things:

1. A bloke shot a lot of people
2. It must have been absolutely terrifying
3. Some people are capable of despicable acts

[barba]

This disgusting barbaric act has significantly increased the risk to all New Zealanders through retaliatory or copy cat attacks.

[CoolClaret]

I'll admit that I'm critical and skeptical of Islam, however this solves nothing.

They are innocent people ffs - yes this is a terrorist attack no more, no less.

I want to know how the hell this guy got his guns?
Apparently he was involved in bitcoin, my guess is the Silk Road

[mdd2]

I don't think it's as simple as that tbh.
Point one: I don't condone violence of any kind in pursuit of an ideology or political aim, but it's easy to find examples where the edges are blurred.
No one would now suggest for example that the suffragette cause was not a just one, but were they terrorists? Yes they were under most people's definition.
Moving a bit more extreme: Mandela?
And you can continue down this route until you get to Osama Bin Laden etc. etc.

So I don't think you can just dismiss as nonsense the "link" between freedom fighter and terrorist.

You could also add in the French Resistance, Eoka, Mau-Mau, ETA as terrorists or Freedom fighters depending on which side of the fence you are on or were on

[martin_p]

Faux outrage would be to watch it and then be outraged that he filmed it. There's nothing wrong with saying that it turned your stomach to watch it.

It's not automatically terrible to watch it. If you're watching it because you enjoy it then sure, but for some people watching it helps them understand what happened, how frightening it must have been and also what people are capable of.

Sorry I just can’t work this out. All of the things you mention are immediately apparent from reading the news stories. If you watch a video of people being killed you do it because you want to see people being killed, it is the very worse form of rubber necking.

[bfccrazy]

I'm interested where you found the footage, all mainstream media have been doing all they can to remove it from public consumption. I'm not actually sure how I feel about censorship like that if I am honest, but thats a debate for another day I'm sure.

I got a link sent that somebody would have recorded from the live stream the person did during attack.

I managed to watch a little bit of it through probably some dark curiosity and realised I didn’t want to actually watch it so just stopped it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The vids doin the rounds this morning

Awful

I've had two sent to me this morning.

I've just deleted them and told the sender not to bother sending me that stuff again, I refused to watch them.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'm interested where you found the footage, all mainstream media have been doing all they can to remove it from public consumption. I'm not actually sure how I feel about censorship like that if I am honest, but thats a debate for another day I'm sure.

I got it sent to me on WhatsApp, broken down into two videos.

[Lord Beamish]

I feel blessed that I don’t have the type of friends who think I’d be interested in watching innocent men, women, and children run around in abject terror whilst being shot to pieces by automatic weapon-fire.

[Lancasterclaret]

Ditto

[Rick_Muller]

I remember watching the Ken Bigley beheading video and it really made me feel sick to the stomach, and just thinking about watching it now whilst typing this is making me feel ill again. Back then it was a case of curiosity and I have regretted it ever since, I was wrong to want to watch it. The thing is, that video is still relatively available on the internet and it is truly horrific.

My questions are as follows:

Has the conscious removal of the footage today been enacted because we, as a society, are more aware of the potential damage footage like this can cause?

Or, and I am not suggesting this is the case of course, is it because the perpetrator is a white supremacist terrorist with a load of guns and not an Islamic terrorist with a big knife?

What can be done to prevent these videos from being made widely available, and is censorship appropriate?

[NottsClaret]

I feel blessed that I don’t have the type of friends who think I’d be interested in watching innocent men, women, and children run around in abject terror whilst being shot to pieces by automatic weapon-fire.

I woke up to a couple of texts from a mate in Christchurch who was 'locked down' in the pub (yeah, hard not to make a weak joke there). Fortunately he's not a ghoul either so didn't share any footage, just sounded really sad that this happened in his town.

[ClaretAndJew]

Here are the shooters own words about Captain Orange :

Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?

As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a policy maker and leader? Dear god no.

[Lord Beamish]

I remember watching the Ken Bigley beheading video and it really made me feel sick to the stomach, and just thinking about watching it now whilst typing this is making me feel ill again. Back then it was a case of mawkish curiosity and I have regretted it ever since, I was wrong to want to watch it. The thing is, that video is still relatively available on the internet and it is truly horrific.

My questions are as follows:

Has the conscious removal of the footage today been enacted because we, as a society, are more aware of the potential damage footage like this can cause?

Or, and I am not suggesting this is the case of course, is it because the perpetrator is a white supremacist terrorist with a load of guns and not an Islamic terrorist with a big knife?

What can be done to prevent these videos from being made widely available, and is censorship appropriate?

Mawkish is really the wrong word to describe your curiosity in this case. Morbid and voyeuristic seem more apposite.

I have never watched an ISIS style begeading video, or any such thing out of my own innate sense of Human Dignity. It’s bad enough that it actually happened, the horror of it is compounded by others gaping at it for visceral revulsion kicks.

[Rick_Muller]

Mawkish is really the wrong word to describe your curiosity in this case. Morbid and voyeuristic seem more apposite.

I have never watched an ISIS style begeading video, or any such thing out of my own innate sense of Human Dignity. It’s bad enough that it actually happened, the horror of it is compounded by others gaping at it for visceral revulsion kicks.

Please dont judge me on that, it was 14/15 years ago - I am a different person now to who I was then. Yes, I agree that mawkish is the wrong term, apologies.

[Falcon]

There used to be a subreddit on Reddit called WatchPeopleDie and it was exactly what you think it was.

Some people just like watching horrible things.

[bfccrazy]

There used to be a subreddit on Reddit called WatchPeopleDie and it was exactly what you think it was.

Some people just like watching horrible things.

There are also “underground” WhatsApp groups that are pretty much dedicated to sending videos of gore.

I’ve been sent links to those a few times and never wanted to join them.

I think I watched this video to see if the attacker said anything as to why he was doing what he did or there was some warped reasoning to what made him want to do it in the video.

I quickly realised that wouldn’t be the case so just turned it off.

[Imploding Turtle]

Mawkish is really the wrong word to describe your curiosity in this case. Morbid and voyeuristic seem more apposite.

I have never watched an ISIS style beheading video, or any such thing out of my own innate sense of Human Dignity. It’s bad enough that it actually happened, the horror of it is compounded by others gaping at it for visceral revulsion kicks.

There are no doubt people who watch it for kicks, but if you think that's the only reason people watch things then your imagination is even more lacking than those for whom a text description of what happens during tragedies is inadequate.

I'm not going to get in a flame war with you, but you seem bent on accusing good people of being bad just because they watched certain videos that you chose not to watch.

[Lord Beamish]

Please dont judge me on that, it was 14/15 years ago - I am a different person now to who I was then. Yes, I agree that mawkish is the wrong term, apologies.

I’m sure you are. I’m sorry if I came across as harsh. I just struggle to understand the desire to watch these things, let alone try to justify doing so in the terms of ‘freedom of choice’. I wouldn’t go so far as censoring these things, but I’d certainly judge people’s character on their ability to self-censor such things.

[Lord Beamish]

There are no doubt people who watch it for kicks, but if you think that's the only reason people watch things then your imagination is even more lacking than those for whom a text description of what happens during tragedies is inadequate.

I'm not going to get in a flame war with you, but you seem bent on accusing good people of being bad just because they watched certain videos that you chose not to watch.

You’re not going to get into a flame war with me because I’m not really interested in interacting with you on it.

[Imploding Turtle]

There used to be a subreddit on Reddit called WatchPeopleDie and it was exactly what you think it was.

Some people just like watching horrible things.

That subreddit purely was to watch people die. I think if someone was subscribed to that it's because they just liked watching the videos. Those people are entirely different to how i imagine whoever it was in this thread that watched the 16 minute video, and they're certainly different to me. If Lord Beamish and others don't want to try and understand the difference then that's fine with me. But those are the people they should be taking issue with.

[Falcon]

As an aside, I've not heard the phrase 'flame war' in aaaaaages.

Can I also just use this opportunity to put on record that I think the Australian senator mentioned above is a proper bellend.

[Imploding Turtle]

You’re not going to get into a flame war with me because I’m not really interested in interacting with you on it.

OK. Just stop judging people for something you don't understand and just accept that you don't understand. When you decide to broaden your mind just a tiny bit maybe i'll put the effort into analogising it for you in a way that you'll understand. But until then, stop being a ****.

[Lancasterclaret]

This is great btw, and well worth a read about what all this is

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/03/15/th ... e-up-call/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bfccrazy]

I’m sure you are. I’m sorry if I came across as harsh. I just struggle to understand the desire to watch these things, let alone try to justify doing so in the terms of ‘freedom of choice’. I wouldn’t go so far as censoring these things, but I’d certainly judge people’s character on their ability to self-censor such things.

Some people can handle watching things others can’t as they view it with a different viewpoint. Death doesn’t bother me as much as some others as I had to block off some of the emotional side of it for quite a while in a previous career.

That doesn’t mean I have no empathy with people, I don’t take any pleasure in seeing people hurt but maybe it’s just that I can view something differently to you .... a poster above mentioned how a video has affected them for over a decade, personally I have managed to try and not let things I have seen affect me mentally or emotionally for too long or I would have lost my mind by now.

[Lord Beamish]

Some people can handle watching things others can’t as they view it with a different viewpoint. Death doesn’t bother me as much as some others as I had to block off some of the emotional side of it for quite a while in a previous career.

That doesn’t mean I have no empathy with people, I don’t take any pleasure in seeing people hurt but maybe it’s just that I can view something differently to you .... a poster above mentioned how a video has affected them for over a decade, personally I have managed to try and not let things I have seen affect me mentally or emotionally for too long or I would have lost my mind by now.

There’s no reason for ordinary people to watch these videos outside morbid interest. Simple as that. Dress it up how you like. If you watch stuff like this you’re chipping away at even more of your humanity, even more so if you try and dress it up as not being just morbid interest.