This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
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bfccrazy
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by bfccrazy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:40 am
Lord Beamish wrote:There’s no reason for ordinary people to watch these videos outside morbid interest. Simple as that. Dress it up how you like. If you watch stuff like this you’re chipping away at even more of your humanity, even more so if you try and dress it up as not being just morbid interest.
I mentioned earlier that it was dark curiosity and also maybe some insight into why the attack was carried out.
When I realised what i’d thought could be on the video wasn’t, I stopped watching it.
Just because that doesn’t sit well with your psyche doesn’t mean it’s a complete nonsense.
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Lord Beamish
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by Lord Beamish » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:42 am
bfccrazy wrote:I mentioned earlier that it was dark curiosity and also maybe some insight into why the attack was carried out.
When I realised what i’d thought could be on the video wasn’t, I stopped watching it.
Just because that doesn’t sit well with your psyche doesn’t mean it’s a complete nonsense.
Some insight into the reasons for the attack?
Get out of town!
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Imploding Turtle
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by Imploding Turtle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:45 am
bfccrazy wrote:Some people can handle watching things others can’t as they view it with a different viewpoint. Death doesn’t bother me as much as some others as I had to block off some of the emotional side of it for quite a while in a previous career.
That doesn’t mean I have no empathy with people, I don’t take any pleasure in seeing people hurt but maybe it’s just that I can view something differently to you .... a poster above mentioned how a video has affected them for over a decade, personally I have managed to try and not let things I have seen affect me mentally or emotionally for too long or I would have lost my mind by now.
I think some of it is just wanting to feel something or feel more than what if being felt when reading it on a website of hearing a newsreader describe it. I've heard descriptions of mass shootings so many times that it's become the same thing over and over. "The shooter calmly and methodically killed his victims in cold blood" it'll say, or words to that effect. You can imagine that and it's horrifying but when it's the same thing over and over it becomes more difficult to imagine each time because you're not forming a new image, it's the same picture in your mind, all that's different is the date and location.
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bfccrazy
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by bfccrazy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:47 am
Lord Beamish wrote:Some insight into the reasons for the attack?
Get out of town!
We’re not going to agree on this - so no point in keeping on speaking about it. You don’t want to hear anything away from your thoughts on it..... so nothing to discuss really.
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Steve1956
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by Steve1956 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:51 am
Imploding Turtle wrote:I think some of it is just wanting to feel something or feel more than what if being felt when reading it on a website of hearing a newsreader describe it. I've heard descriptions of mass shootings so many times that it's become the same thing over and over. "The shooter calmly and methodically killed his victims in cold blood" it'll say, or words to that effect. You can imagine that and it's horrifying but when it's the same thing over and over it becomes more difficult to imagine each time because you're not forming a new image, it's the same picture in your mind, all that's different is the date and location.
I admit to watching the video ,I honestly don't know why I did,it left me felling numb and guilty that I had watched the slaughter of fellow human beings,it happens so much nowadays I ws curious,being curious? ...does that make me a bad person?
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bfccrazy
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by bfccrazy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:53 am
Imploding Turtle wrote:I think some of it is just wanting to feel something or feel more than what if being felt when reading it on a website of hearing a newsreader describe it. I've heard descriptions of mass shootings so many times that it's become the same thing over and over. "The shooter calmly and methodically killed his victims in cold blood" it'll say, or words to that effect. You can imagine that and it's horrifying but when it's the same thing over and over it becomes more difficult to imagine each time because you're not forming a new image, it's the same picture in your mind, all that's different is the date and location.
video was put in a group I’m in and all those in the group had the same thoughts. All of them just said “what a stupid ...” “horrible” “what is the world coming to”. Interestingly after that though discussions got into how it wasn’t dissimilar to watching a computer game almost and how these things have happened for a long time but nowadays these idiots want to document it and it’s there, available to see with social media/google etc.. Which showed how desensitised people have become to it.
Couple that with how you say, these things are happening more and more frequently .... maybe people do have a desire to immerse themselves into it more to find a deeper sympathy than just seeing a “copy/paste” headline on another pri(k doing something that anybody I know wouldn’t comprehend doing.
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Lord Beamish
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by Lord Beamish » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:55 am
bfccrazy wrote:We’re not going to agree on this - so no point in keeping on speaking about it. You don’t want to hear anything away from your thoughts on it..... so nothing to discuss really.
Don’t worry too much about it, mate. I didn’t really believe Pete Townsend or Chris Langham when they claimed they were ‘just doing research’, either.
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:56 am
I get all that, but the bloke who did this, wants people to watch it.
Thats the critical point here.
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ClaretAndJew
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by ClaretAndJew » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:56 am
I think that's a little bit of a different kettle of fish there, Beamish.
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Lord Beamish
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by Lord Beamish » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:58 am
ClaretAndJew wrote:I think that's a little bit of a different kettle of fish there, Beamish.
No. The principle is still the same. It’s people coming up with bullsh1t excuses for consuming and indulging in the worst aspects of Humanity.
Last edited by
Lord Beamish on Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ClaretAndJew
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by ClaretAndJew » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:01 pm
Lord Beamish wrote:No. The principle is still the same. It’s people coming up with bullsh1t excuses for consuming the and indulging in the worst aspects of Humanity.
I mean, looking at gruesome images isn't a crime. Child porn is. I don't think the indulgences are the same. I respect your opinion mate, just don't agree at all in this case.
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ClaretAndJew
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by ClaretAndJew » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:02 pm
This was written on some of his ammunition cases :
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bfccrazy
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by bfccrazy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:03 pm
Lancasterclaret wrote:I get all that, but the bloke who did this, wants people to watch it.
Thats the critical point here.
He also released a manifesto which I have skimmed through .... which he wanted people to read.
I don’t agree with any of it, but it still intrigued me to see why he thought he was in the right in his warped kind.
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Lord Beamish
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by Lord Beamish » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:03 pm
ClaretAndJew wrote:I mean, looking at gruesome images isn't a crime. Child porn is. I don't think the indulgences are the same. I respect your opinion mate, just don't agree at all in this case.
It’s the link between the prurient and the morbid that I’m highlighting, not the legality.
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Lancasterclaret
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by Lancasterclaret » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 pm
don’t agree with any of it, but it still intrigued me to see why he thought he was in the right in his warped kind.
Not even done that, but thats mainly because I know exactly what it will say.
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bfccrazy
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by bfccrazy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:10 pm
Lancasterclaret wrote:Not even done that, but thats mainly because I know exactly what it will say.
Which is fair enough, millions (probably billions) of people watch murder documentaries/read books about serial killers etc .... does that make them the same as people who look up child porn as mentioned above
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Lord Beamish
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by Lord Beamish » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:14 pm
bfccrazy wrote:Which is fair enough, millions (probably billions) of people watch murder documentaries/read books about serial killers etc .... does that make them the same as people who look up child porn as mentioned above
There’s a massive difference between reading books about Murder and True Crime and watching a video of a man shooting innocent men, women, and children to bits, whilst they run about in terror, screaming in pain, fear and horror, and doing this before their bodies are even fully cold. There is no reason outside of a very morbid curiosity for doing this.
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Imploding Turtle
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by Imploding Turtle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm
Lord Beamish wrote:No. The principle is still the same. It’s people coming up with bullsh1t excuses for consuming and indulging in the worst aspects of Humanity.
It's not an excuse, it's a reason. It's the same reason i'll choose to watch, for example, a nature documentary. It's not because i get pleasure out of seeing an alligator tear open a zebra.
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Imploding Turtle
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by Imploding Turtle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:31 pm
Lord Beamish wrote:There’s a massive difference between reading books about Murder and True Crime and watching a video of a man shooting innocent men, women, and children to bits, whilst they run about in terror, screaming in pain, fear and horror, and doing this before their bodies are even fully cold. There is no reason outside of a very morbid curiosity for doing this.
Tufty. Imagine if someone else decided to be really unfair to you and decided that the reason you didn't watch it was because you simply were so disinterested in the suffering of the victims that you couldn't be bothered to do something that would bring out more empathy in you for them. That would be incredibly unfair, and inaccurate. Right? And you'd probably feel pretty insulted that someone would publicly accuse you of that. Right? Well, right now, by judging other people the way you are, you are that person being unfair.
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aggi
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by aggi » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:13 pm
Have the leaders of the Far Right Community condemned the shootings yet?
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ClaretShaun
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by ClaretShaun » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:13 pm
Walton wrote:Meanwhile, this is the response from Queensland Senator Fraser Anning...
IMG_20190315_074643.jpg
Pretty much nail on the head.
No need for all the bible nonsense though. Albeit, at least it isn’t an evil book.
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Falcon
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by Falcon » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:18 pm
ClaretShaun wrote:Pretty much nail on the head.
No need for all the bible nonsense though. Albeit, at least it isn’t an evil book.
Are you for real?
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Lord Beamish
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by Lord Beamish » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:21 pm
Falcon wrote:Are you for real?
Could be Poe’s Law in action.
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ClaretAndJew
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by ClaretAndJew » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:24 pm
ClaretShaun wrote:Pretty much nail on the head.
No need for all the bible nonsense though. Albeit, at least it isn’t an evil book.
You disgusting c.unt
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GodIsADeeJay81
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by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:26 pm
Someone needs to remind these people that the whites invaded everywhere else first in the majority of cases.
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exilecanada
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by exilecanada » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:28 pm
I was totally shocked when I heard this news. New Zealand is probably the last place one would expect this nonsense to occur.
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BurnleyFC
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by BurnleyFC » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:55 pm
I can’t get my head around what would possess a human being to do that to other human beings, let alone ******* filming it.
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Burnley1989
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by Burnley1989 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:57 pm
ClaretShaun wrote:Pretty much nail on the head.
No need for all the bible nonsense though. Albeit, at least it isn’t an evil book.
WHAT? you need sectioning if thats your honest opinion
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Aclaret
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by Aclaret » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:03 pm
BurnleyFC wrote:I can’t get my head around what would possess a human being to do that to other human beings, let alone ******* filming it.
It's got to be mental problems surely, no human with any rational could do what he did. This isn't ideology, it's just an armed lunatic as with Dunblane, Hungerford etc.
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Imploding Turtle
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by Imploding Turtle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:05 pm
Aclaret wrote:It's got to be mental problems surely, no human with any rational could do what he did. This isn't ideology, it's just an armed lunatic as with Dunblane, Hungerford etc.
I think they all have mental problems in one form or another.
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Erasmus
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by Erasmus » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:32 pm
I wish Claretshaun would stop being a Burnley supporter, I really do. Such a heartless and bigoted individual.
As for holy books justifying murder, it's never about the book it's about the people who use it. There are plenty of passages in the Bible that justify mass slaughter and have been used to justify such actions. The Crusades provides an obvious example, but we might also notice that Cromwell's forces used the battle cry 'Spare not the Amalekites' before the slaughter of prisoners and civilians at Drogheda.
In Hinduism, Mahatma Gandhi always said that the Bhagavad-gita provided inspiration for his doctrine of non-violence, and yet the terrorist group that murdered him also claimed to be following the Bhagavad-gita's teachings. Bad people do bad things; it's never about the book.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:34 pm
It's never about the books, but it's fairly obvious they're inspiring a number of bad people to carry out bad deeds.
They're usually ill in the head types of course.
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BurnleyFC
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by BurnleyFC » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:35 pm
Aclaret wrote:It's got to be mental problems surely, no human with any rational could do what he did. This isn't ideology, it's just an armed lunatic as with Dunblane, Hungerford etc.
He’s laughing and joking as if he’s playing a video game.
He obviously has some mental issues because no sane person would even contemplate doing such a thing but that isn’t any excuse for what this **** has done.
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Pstotto
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by Pstotto » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:36 pm
This is the kind of thing that happens when your Sleaford Mods record turns into Alison Moyet after too many Coca Colas...
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bfccrazy
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by bfccrazy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:36 pm
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:It's never about the books, but it's fairly obvious they're inspiring a number of bad people to carry out bad deeds.
They're usually ill in the head types of course.
I think people that are twisted use the books to try and justify their actions .... could probably read any book
nowadays and analyse it and twist it to fit some sort of agenda.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:32 pm
bfccrazy wrote:I think people that are twisted use the books to try and justify their actions .... could probably read any book
nowadays and analyse it and twist it to fit some sort of agenda.
Probably not because books that have similar violence and ways of treating people are rightly regarded as works of fiction.
The issue with religious books is that people are taught/brainwashed into believing that they're factual, when in actuality they're a mixture of fiction and fact.
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Jeremy_Bentham
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by Jeremy_Bentham » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:16 pm
. recalls a shooting around a year ago that the perpetrator streamed live on Facebook. He always remembers seeing the victim, an old man, try to shield himself with a plastic carrier bag. . felt awful after watching it.
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Greenmile
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by Greenmile » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:21 pm
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Probably not because books that have similar violence and ways of treating people are rightly regarded as works of fiction.
The issue with religious books is that people are taught/brainwashed into believing that they're factual, when in actuality they're a mixture of fiction and fact.
Didn’t Mark David Chapman shoot John Lennon because of Catcher in the Rye (a work of fiction)?
I’m sure it was a bit more complex that that, but I’m pretty sure the novel had something to do with it.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:32 pm
Greenmile wrote:Didn’t Mark David Chapman shoot John Lennon because of Catcher in the Rye (a work of fiction)?
I’m sure it was a bit more complex that that, but I’m pretty sure the novel had something to do with it.
Chapman was initially a Beatles fan but when he became a born again believer of god he became annoyed by the comment from Lennon about the Beatles being bigger/more popular than Jesus and that annoyance started to fester over a period of time.
The book connection is there, but religion started it, unsurprisingly.
Of course we all know Chapman wasn't right in the head though.
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bpgburn
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by bpgburn » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:51 pm
Imploding Turtle wrote:Tufty. Imagine if someone else decided to be really unfair to you and decided that the reason you didn't watch it was because you simply were so disinterested in the suffering of the victims that you couldn't be bothered to do something that would bring out more empathy in you for them. That would be incredibly unfair, and inaccurate. Right? And you'd probably feel pretty insulted that someone would publicly accuse you of that. Right? Well, right now, by judging other people the way you are, you are that person being unfair.
The lady doth protest too much..
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Cleveleys_claret
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by Cleveleys_claret » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:55 pm
I do t understand how anyone can call somebody for watching this video. In my view everyone should have to watch this to reinforce that there are bad people out there that will do anything to take our rights of living in peace away from us. Yes it was horrible but it left me in no doubt how wrong these people are and how we need the good in all of us to fight against these disgusting acts and the people who calmly post right wing views on bookface and the like without thinking there actions may trigger actions like those jn Christchurch and re in forcing their warped views in what is right/wrong. I only last week decided to start pulling poeple up on bookface for their outdated views. People i know who have had their minds warped from good old Tommy and the like
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bpgburn
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by bpgburn » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:03 pm
"I do t understand how anyone can call somebody for watching this video. In my view everyone should have to watch this to reinforce that there are bad people out there that will do anything to take our rights of living in peace away from us... "
Watch the news..
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Tricky Trevor
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by Tricky Trevor » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:04 pm
exilecanada wrote:I was totally shocked when I heard this news. New Zealand is probably the last place one would expect this nonsense to occur.
New Zealand is just the unlucky location chosen by this Australian(British/Irish) specimen.
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Tricky Trevor
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by Tricky Trevor » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:07 pm
The people who share sh1t like that should be getting a knock on the door and being charged with spreading hatred. I appreciate that in a lot of cases that might not be their intention but it might stop some of them from doing it again
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CoolClaret
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by CoolClaret » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:51 pm
aggi wrote:Have the leaders of the Far Right Community condemned the shootings yet?
That's not the equivalent - people on the right have though like pretty much every Conservative.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:39 pm
Cleveleys_claret wrote:I do t understand how anyone can call somebody for watching this video. In my view everyone should have to watch this to reinforce that there are bad people out there that will do anything to take our rights of living in peace away from us. Yes it was horrible but it left me in no doubt how wrong these people are and how we need the good in all of us to fight against these disgusting acts and the people who calmly post right wing views on bookface and the like without thinking there actions may trigger actions like those jn Christchurch and re in forcing their warped views in what is right/wrong. I only last week decided to start pulling poeple up on bookface for their outdated views. People i know who have had their minds warped from good old Tommy and the like
I stopped chatting to a couple of cousins a few years ago because they were posting outrageous crap that came from the likes of Tommy etc.
Haven't spoken to them since, despite their mum asking me to change my mind about them
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Bin Ont Turf
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by Bin Ont Turf » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:56 pm
Lord Beamish wrote:No. The principle is still the same. It’s people coming up with bullsh1t excuses for consuming and indulging in the worst aspects of Humanity.
It's exactly the same as what the OP wanted from this thread.
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Imploding Turtle
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by Imploding Turtle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:01 pm
Bin Ont Turf wrote:It's exactly the same as what the OP wanted from this thread.
Took longer than I expected but we've finally got someone questioning the OP's motives for posting the thread.
Good work, team.
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Cleveleys_claret
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by Cleveleys_claret » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:03 pm
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I stopped chatting to a couple of cousins a few years ago because they were posting outrageous crap that came from the likes of Tommy etc.
Haven't spoken to them since, despite their mum asking me to change my mind about them
At work today a fan of Tommy was spouting the usual **** about muslims over here. I asked if after watching thr video thats what he wanted happening. Of course not he said but couldnt comprehend how the stuff he follows leads to acts like these