Women in Football.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:06 pm

groove wrote:I don't want women in the men's games because they're women. Even though I enjoy watching my daughter play football every week. I wouldn't want her commentating on MOTD though. I just prefer male commentators.

Pretty much makes you Hitler mate

groove · Post by **groove** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:38 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Pretty much makes you Hitler mate

I think you missed my sarcasm mate. Good to know Godwin's law is alive and well.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:52 pm

groove wrote:I think you missed my sarcasm mate. Good to know Godwin's law is alive and well.

Moffitt's a troll. He likes to pretend he's satirising the liberal progressives because he thinks there's some truth in his trolling, but there isn't. So either take everything he says seriously, or none of it.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Funny how you never had that objection to men managing and coaching in the women's game. It's only when we talk about women managing and coaching in the men's game where that objection comes up. Not "haha" funny, mind.

Personally wouldnt have that either but each to their own.

Lets have kids in the mens game too.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:38 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Personally wouldnt have that either but each to their own.

Lets have kids in the mens game too.

Ah, you see, that's interesting because the well known saying goes "if you're good enough, you're old enough". So why is being good enough not good enough when it comes to women?

But at least your sexism works both ways. I guess that makes you more a segregationist than sexist.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Ah, you see, that's interesting because the well known saying goes "if you're good enough, you're old enough". So why is being good enough not good enough when it comes to women?

But at least your sexism works both ways. I guess that makes you more a segregationist than sexist.

Because no women are good enough.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:33 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Because no women are good enough.

How do you know that there are no women good enough to manage a professional football team? Ridiculous claim.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:55 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Ah, you see, that's interesting because the well known saying goes "if you're good enough, you're old enough". So why is being good enough not good enough when it comes to women?

But at least your sexism works both ways. I guess that makes you more a segregationist than sexist.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:02 pm

Women arent equal to men. And men arent equal to women. Physically. Psycologically or otherwise. Thats not sexist. Thats black and white (am I allowed to use that phrase) facts.

Should they be treat with the same respect? Yes.
Should they be given equal opportunities? Yes, in an appropriate way. Thats why there is a mens game and a womens game!

Can men do everything a woman can? No.
Can women do everything a man can? No.

This 'everyone is equal' nonsesne is the reason kids now play uncompetetive games where taking part takes prescedence over competing and winning. Its a load of crap.

Theres a whole host of reasons why women should never manage or play in the mens game and equally so vice versa. The fact that Phil Neville manages a womens team doesnt change my opinion of that. I believe he shouldnt. But the prescedent was set for that way before he took charge and therefore its seen as more normal.

If the womens game was equal to the mens game the vieiwing figures and attendences and sponsorship and playing numbers and general interest would match. But they simply dont.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:06 pm

There are deep down - usually sexual dynamics that I believe aren't conducive to have a women manager of a football team.

Down play it all you want but it's there and always will be there.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:09 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Women arent equal to men. And men arent equal to women. Physically. Psycologically or otherwise. Thats not sexist. Thats black and white (am I allowed to use that phrase) facts.

Should they be treat with the same respect? Yes.
Should they be given equal opportunities? Yes, in an appropriate way. Thats why there is a mens game and a womens game!

Can men do everything a woman can? No.
Can women do everything a man can? No.

This 'everyone is equal' nonsesne is the reason kids now play uncompetetive games where taking part takes prescedence over competing and winning. Its a load of crap.

Theres a whole host of reasons why women should never manage or play in the mens game and equally so vice versa. The fact that Phil Neville manages a womens team doesnt change my opinion of that. I believe he shouldnt. But the prescedent was set for that way before he took charge and therefore its seen as more normal.

If the womens game was equal to the mens game the vieiwing figures and attendences and sponsorship and playing numbers and general interest would match. But they simply dont.

Literally no one is making the case that woman are equal to men physically. And i don't know what psychology has to do with anything.

But it is clearly sexist to think that two people of completely equal managerial ability should be treated differently for a job of manager. That's just so ******* obvious that any disagreement simply has to be trolling.

But how do i know you're going to find a way to contest it anyway?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:11 pm

CoolClaret wrote:There are deep down - usually sexual dynamics that I believe aren't conducive to have a women manager of a football team.

Down play it all you want but it's there and always will be there.

Lol. What? Now we're being sexist towards men. Good job.

Edit: And even better is that you're arguing that the sexism of some men means it's necessary to deny opportunities to women. Why not deny opportunities to the sexists instead?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:11 pm

CoolClaret wrote:There are deep down - usually sexual dynamics that I believe aren't conducive to have a women manager of a football team.

Down play it all you want but it's there and always will be there.

Do you mean she might pick the player she fancies most?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:13 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Do you mean she might pick the player she fancies most?

I guess using that logic then there shouldn't be any gay managers.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:15 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Theres a whole host of reasons why women should never manage or play in the mens game and equally so vice versa.

Please list some of the reasons why women should never manage in the mens game.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I guess using that logic then there shouldn't be any gay managers.

No, there shouldn’t be any gays in football. There should be gay football with gay players, gay managers and gay pundits.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Literally no one is making the case that woman are equal to men physically. And i don't know what psychology has to do with anything.

But it is clearly sexist to think that two people of completely equal managerial ability should be treated differently for a job of manager. That's just so ******* obvious that any disagreement simply has to be trolling.

But how do i know you're going to find a way to contest it anyway?

Pschology has nothing to do with elite level sport?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:27 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Please list some of the reasons why women should never manage in the mens game.

Ok. So you think having a woman in a male dominated, testosterone fuelled, highly charged dressing room is a good idea? For the woman as much as the men? Do you honestly think she could or would command the same level of respect from the players, fans or press?

Right or wrong it wouldnt happen. No matter how you dress it up.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:29 pm

Its a mans game. They shouldnt be involved in anyway with mens footie

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:30 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I guess using that logic then there shouldn't be any gay managers.

Little different, the players are predominantly straight.

Guarentee if a semi attractive woman took over a blokes team it just wouldn't end well.

Again, you can say that the theoretical players would be sexist but I guarentee you that the players between themselves would banter about how they would like to fornicate with the manager.

If you don't believe that, then you've never played team sports with a group of lads.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:35 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Ok. So you think having a woman in a male dominated, testosterone fuelled, highly charged dressing room is a good idea? For the woman as much as the men? Do you honestly think she could or would command the same level of respect from the players, fans or press?

Right or wrong it wouldnt happen. No matter how you dress it up.

Well, I didn't actually say that, I asked you to list some of the reasons why women should never manage in the mens game, not turn the question back around on me.

But as you asked I don't see it as a bad idea. There are many 'testosterone fuelled' professions with female managers, why is football different.

If a female manager of the same ability as a male manager wasn't given the same level of respect from player, fans and press then that would show the issue to be with the players, fans and press. And not putting a female manager into this position for that reason would not be tackling the issue.

There's absolutely no reason why a woman shouldn't be able to manage a professional mens team.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:36 pm

theroyaldyche wrote:Its a mans game. They shouldnt be involved in anyway with mens footie

Physios? Doctors? Public Relations? Administrative? Catering? Should women really not be involved in any way with mens footie.

This board is full of dinosaurs.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:56 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Physios? Doctors? Public Relations? Administrative? Catering? Should women really not be involved in any way with mens footie.

This board is full of dinosaurs.

I'm with you - and IT - on this subject.

Why we have so many "dinosaurs" - which is a reference to an animal that has been extinct for a long time - in football, I've no idea.

I'm sure some of you will know that the women's game was very successful in the early 1920s - and then the FA "blazers" (at a guess) stepped in and banned the women's game because they didn't want it to compete with the men's game.

I'm sure there are many women who could train, coach and manage a Premier League football team just as well as all the men who've been doing these things forever. The same can apply to all sports - it shouldn't be limited to Andy Murray's mum.

UTC

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:57 pm

tim_noone wrote:I'm just guessing ....but you would be one of the first to moan.

About women in men's football or about closed minds on here?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:07 pm

Pretty sad state of affairs to see some of the views often expressed on this board.
Sexual tension, testosterone- WTF......oh my what will those poor little ladies do in their pink floral dresses ? Blush and then faint when one of the players asks her to get her baps out ?!!

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:16 pm

TVC15 wrote:Pretty sad state of affairs to see some of the views often expressed on this board.
Sexual tension, testosterone- WTF......oh my what will those poor little ladies do in their pink floral dresses ? Blush and then faint when one of the players asks her to get her baps out ?!!

Alternatively we could pretend it wouldnt be an issue.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:23 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Alternatively we could pretend it wouldnt be an issue.

Easy isn't it to just pretend everything is hunky dory, yeah no doubt 'in theory' everything would be absolutely fine...

There are complex dynamics involved especially in football management to deny them is a bit naive imo.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:52 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Alternatively we could pretend it wouldnt be an issue.

Go on enlighten us all - what exactly would be an issue and for who ?
You think that a man could not take orders or advice from a woman without wanting to shove his head in her tits ?

If you have ever seen the Chelsea ladies manager on sky on programmes such as The Debate she talks about how integrated the coaching is at Chelsea across all the teams. She has a great knowledge of the men’s game and seems plenty confident enough to manage a men’s team.
Proof will be in the pudding but to say that they should never have the opportunity is ridiculous.
Even if you got a thick as mince male player saying something sexist how long do you think he would last at the club ?....about as long as someone who said something racist to a black manager.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:26 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Easy isn't it to just pretend everything is hunky dory, yeah no doubt 'in theory' everything would be absolutely fine...

There are complex dynamics involved especially in football management to deny them is a bit naive imo.

Precisely

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:27 pm

TVC15 wrote:Go on enlighten us all - what exactly would be an issue and for who ?
You think that a man could not take orders or advice from a woman without wanting to shove his head in her tits ?

If you have ever seen the Chelsea ladies manager on sky on programmes such as The Debate she talks about how integrated the coaching is at Chelsea across all the teams. She has a great knowledge of the men’s game and seems plenty confident enough to manage a men’s team.
Proof will be in the pudding but to say that they should never have the opportunity is ridiculous.
Even if you got a thick as mince male player saying something sexist how long do you think he would last at the club ?....about as long as someone who said something racist to a black manager.

Ive already given some examples.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:33 pm

TVC15 wrote:Pretty sad state of affairs to see some of the views often expressed on this board.
Sexual tension, testosterone- WTF......oh my what will those poor little ladies do in their pink floral dresses ? Blush and then faint when one of the players asks her to get her baps out ?!!

It's almost like men don't work with women in the real world...

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:It's almost like men don't work with women in the real world...

OK.

Yes or no. Would you be happy if Burnley signed Carri Lloyd? Simple yes or no will do.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:42 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:OK.

Yes or no. Would you be happy if Burnley signed Carri Lloyd? Simple yes or no will do.

I’ve never seen her play. Is she good enough to improve our team? If so then yes, I would be happy - provided the laws allow her to play in what I believe is a men’s competition.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:43 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:OK.

Yes or no. Would you be happy if Burnley signed Carri Lloyd? Simple yes or no will do.

No - she is nowhere near good enough.

Weren’t we talking about managers though ?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:53 pm

TVC15 wrote:No - she is nowhere near good enough.

Weren’t we talking about managers though ?

No we are talking about equality. Regardless of ability to compete.

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:01 pm

Major General Susan Ridge, high ranking officer in the British Army, women now fighting and coming under fire alongside men on the front line. I'm sure they have faced worse than a mens football changing room !

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:07 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:No we are talking about equality. Regardless of ability to compete.

Who is talking about equality regardless of ability ?
Who is calling for women players, managers or officials if they are not good enough ?
For players that looks pretty obvious to me that they are nowhere near the level of men.....yet.
For officials or managers I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t be....some already are.

Have you no idea how backward you sound saying women cannot manage in men’s football and men should not manage in women’s football ?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:13 pm

I don't like women pundits on men's football matches. I don't like men on women's matches. They are two different games, owing to the players having different attributes.

I like men's football and I respect women's football and watch the odd match.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:29 pm

TVC15 wrote:Who is talking about equality regardless of ability ?
Who is calling for women players, managers or officials if they are not good enough ?
For players that looks pretty obvious to me that they are nowhere near the level of men.....yet.
For officials or managers I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t be....some already are.

Have you no idea how backward you sound saying women cannot manage in men’s football and men should not manage in women’s football ?

We are talking about elite level here. Professional sport.

There isnt and never will be a top class woman who can play to the same standard as a top class man.

Are there women better than men? Of course. But not at the extreme end i.e. profesional level.

To put in perspective. And use athletics as a conparison as its more measurable. The womens 100m world record (set over 30 years ago) would have come last in the first round of the most recent mens olympics.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:33 pm

Aclaret wrote:Major General Susan Ridge, high ranking officer in the British Army, women now fighting and coming under fire alongside men on the front line. I'm sure they have faced worse than a mens football changing room !

Bit different - regimented blokes on a pretty poor salary vs potential playboys on £100k plus a week? It's not gonna end well...

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:37 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:We are talking about elite level here. Professional sport.

There isnt and never will be a top class woman who can play to the same standard as a top class man.

Are there women better than men? Of course. But not at the extreme end i.e. profesional level.

To put in perspective. And use athletics as a conparison as its more measurable. The womens 100m world record (set over 30 years ago) would have come last in the first round of the most recent mens olympics.

Yep you might be right - I already said they were a long way behind men.
That does not mean they should not be allowed if they were ever good enough and it does not mean women should not manage men’s teams and vice versa

The thing is all of a sudden you are making this debate about ability which I don’t know anyone who would disagree with you - when actually that’s clearly not the only reason you don’t think it should ever happen.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:41 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Bit different - regimented blokes on a pretty poor salary vs potential playboys on £100k plus a week? It's not gonna end well...

So what about female CEOs running big companies with male directors who are also paid a fortune reporting into them ?
What exactly are you arguing here ? Is it about the football ? Money ? Testosterone ?

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:47 pm

TVC15 wrote:So what about female CEOs running big companies with male directors who are also paid a fortune reporting into them ?
What exactly are you arguing here ? Is it about the football ? Money ? Testosterone ?

No, footy players are notoriously difficult at times - modern day players have ridiculous power.

See United, Chelsea etc that have effectively got managers the sack.

Football is unique, it's a whole different dynamic...
You want a different director? Go ahead and advertise, chances are you won't have to buy one out of contract for £10 million plus....

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:53 pm

CoolClaret wrote:No, footy players are notoriously difficult at times - modern day players have ridiculous power.

See United, Chelsea etc that have effectively got managers the sack.

Football is unique, it's a whole different dynamic...
You want a different director? Go ahead and advertise, chances are you won't have to buy one out of contract for £10 million plus....

Seriously I ain’t got a clue what you are talking about !
Whether players have power or not i’m still pretty sure they don’t appoint the managers.
Even if players do get their managers sacked then they would do that because they don’t believe in a managers ability not what is between their legs.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:56 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:OK.

Yes or no. Would you be happy if Burnley signed Carri Lloyd? Simple yes or no will do.

Carli Lloyd?

Yeah, if she's good enough.

I already know your answer, it's predicable.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:57 pm

CoolClaret wrote:No, footy players are notoriously difficult at times - modern day players have ridiculous power.

See United, Chelsea etc that have effectively got managers the sack.

Football is unique, it's a whole different dynamic...
You want a different director? Go ahead and advertise, chances are you won't have to buy one out of contract for £10 million plus....

That's an issue for the clubs to stop, player power, but for whatever reason they won't.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:01 pm

There's more dynamics that you're ignoring, it's not that straightforward.

It's not just a question of knowledge/ability in theory yes it is but there's more to it than that.

Again, have you ever been part of a sports dressing room? I don't think it's the place for the average woman.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:06 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Carli Lloyd?

Yeah, if she's good enough.

I already know your answer, it's predicable.

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:11 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidberri ... in-sports/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting article about female coaches and male sports in the US.
If someone like LeBron James doesn't see an issue with it, not sure why people on here are so against it...

Jeremy_Bentham · Post by **Jeremy_Bentham** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:11 pm

. would expect the calls of bullying to be made if a female manager got some of the abuse men have had ie. Wenger on that Arsenal TV thing.