Be proud we are still punching way above weight

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Vegas Claret
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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:17 pm

taio wrote:You are disagreeing Hendrick is a CM, really?

I know just because you've said play him there doesn't mean he should. Obviously. But one would hope that you suggesting it means you've acknowledged he's a CM.

If I could be arsed I could reference loads of web pages and line-ups showing him as a CM.
no you are not getting my point (or i'm not explaining it correctly) - Dyche doesn't like playing him there and as his is the only persons opinion that counts it would suggest he thinks he isn't the best option, all I am adding is that with the loss of form of Cork our options are undeniably limited and having a better midfielder been signed then Corks form wouldn't be an issue. That make more sense ?

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by taio » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:20 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:no you are not getting my point (or i'm not explaining it correctly) - Dyche doesn't like playing him there and as his is the only persons opinion that counts it would suggest he thinks he isn't the best option, all I am adding is that with the loss of form of Cork our options are undeniably limited and having a better midfielder been signed then Corks form wouldn't be an issue. That make more sense ?
I was specifically responding to your point that we started the season with just 2 CMs. That's incorrect and Cork's patchy form that has followed has no bearing on your statement being wrong. Hendrick actually played CM in a 442 early on.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:25 pm

taio wrote:I was specifically responding to your point that we started the season with just 2 CMs. That's incorrect and Cork's patchy form that has followed has no bearing on your statement being wrong. Hendrick actually played CM in a 442 early on.
and was crap at it, which again means we should have signed a CM. Joe Hart could be put in CM and have CM listed as his position, I can only judge what the manager does not what position he is listed on in FIFA

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:27 pm

but to be fair, even if I said we started the season with 3 CM my point still stands, Defour was crocked and we risked he would come back and be fine

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by taio » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:31 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:and was crap at it, which again means we should have signed a CM. Joe Hart could be put in CM and have CM listed as his position, I can only judge what the manager does not what position he is listed on in FIFA
Was referring to game against Olympiacos when he played well did he not?

Your Hart comparison is simply bizarre.
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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 pm

taio wrote:Was referring to game against Olympiacos when he played well did he not?

Your Hart comparison is simply bizarre.
no it isn't, you seemingly don't have a sense of humour. For you to take that seriously shows how unfortunately pedantic you are being.

edit: I actually don't remember his performance in ONE game

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by taio » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:48 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:no it isn't, you seemingly don't have a sense of humour. For you to take that seriously shows how unfortunately pedantic you are being.

edit: I actually don't remember his performance in ONE game
On it's own it might be pedantic. But I'm correcting you because you were being disingenuous to suit your negative agenda. Saying we only had 2 CMs at the start of the reason was plain wrong. I'm not sure which bit was you trying to be funny. Your attempts saying Hendrick isn't a recognised CM are feeble.

"It's difficult for him, especially at Burnley, because he plays in a position that is not really the position he has grown up playing," Walters explained.

"I'd say Jeff's a natural central midfielder, but probably not a #10 so to say.

"You're expected [there] to get beyond the striker and make those runs, and that's not really what Jeff's about."

Jon Walters


" I still think Jeff can and should do better for us in the middle of the field, which I feel is his proper position."

Martin O'Neill

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:52 pm

taio wrote:On it's own it might be pedantic. But I'm correcting you because you were being disingenuous to suit your negative agenda. Saying we only had 2 CMs at the start of the reason was plain wrong. I'm not sure which bit was you trying to be funny. Your attempts saying Hendrick isn't a recognised CM are feeble.

"It's difficult for him, especially at Burnley, because he plays in a position that is not really the position he has grown up playing," Walters explained.

"I'd say Jeff's a natural central midfielder, but probably not a #10 so to say.

"You're expected [there] to get beyond the striker and make those runs, and that's not really what Jeff's about."

Jon Walters


" I still think Jeff can and should do better for us in the middle of the field, which I feel is his proper position."

Martin O'Neill
and as I've pointed out at least twice Dyche manages Burnley and he obviously thinks a completely out of form Cork is still a better option than Hendrick. Dress it up any way you want, call him whatever you want, our manager doesn't seem to think he's up to it. My opinion and yours along with Walters and O'Neil are utterly irrelevant.

edit: what negative agenda is that then ?

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by taio » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:55 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:and as I've pointed out at least twice Dyche manages Burnley and he obviously thinks a completely out of form Cork is still a better option than Hendrick. Dress it up any way you want, call him whatever you want, our manager doesn't seem to think he's up to it. My opinion and yours along with Walters and O'Neil are utterly irrelevant.
There's a big difference between Dyche preferring Cork over Hendrick and Hendrick apparently not being a CM (despite you saying he should play CM against Wolves).

Edit: I don't need to answer about negative agenda because it's there for all to see. You're as fickle as they come.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:58 pm

Nonayforever wrote:One of the main reasons why Stoke & WBA got relegated was because they became stale, which is what we are now doing.

Same type of player, same style of play - predictable.
Quite the opposite, those teams strayed too far from their identity.
Stoke were like us in our pomp, hard to break down, physical etc.
'Can they do it on a rainy Tuesday evening at Stoke?' a cliche but a testament to their reputation.

But they they tried to "evolve" in an effort to reach higher than totally respectable 11th place finishes. Bought in over priced players, tried to become 'Stoke-alona' and it all fell apart.

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/f ... nt-1540566" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:00 pm

taio wrote:There's a big difference between Dyche preferring Cork over Hendrick and Hendrick apparently not being a CM (despite you saying he should play CM against Wolves).
how are you unable to understand that if the manager doesn't think he's good enough then he isn't good enough ? I couldn't give a **** if his official position is a CM, and I acknowledged your point on that further up - had I said we only started the season with 3 fit CM's I would still say we should have signed another one - to rely on Defour was foolish

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:00 pm

taio wrote:There's a big difference between Dyche preferring Cork over Hendrick and Hendrick apparently not being a CM (despite you saying he should play CM against Wolves).

Edit: I don't need to answer about negative agenda because it's there for all to see. You're as fickle as they come.
how am I fickle ?

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Indecisive » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:49 am

Lord Beamish wrote:You’re in luck. I’m not renewing my ST this year. I’m genuinely p1ssed off with how we’ve stagnated on the pitch in the past 18 months. There’s really no excuse for it.
Fair play. Are you going to do a 180 if we go on another 8 game run?

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Lord Beamish » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 am

Indecisive wrote:Fair play. Are you going to do a 180 if we go on another 8 game run?
No. Decision made.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by South West Claret. » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:36 am

s6t9a2f3f wrote:Yes there has been mistakes (transfer windows, dept of quality in squad etc,etc) but look at the size of the town, the area, the stadium capacity, the transfer budget, the wages budget we are doing incredibly well.
This town club unless we get major investment can only aim for survival in any premiership campaign, aiming for the 3 promoted clubs and then ?? maybe realistically 1-2 others like a Brighton. Our transfer and wage budget means we can only buy/attract a certain calibre of player thus determine our style of play at times but even if we unearth a gem Austin, Ings, Keane, Gray they will get poached anyway and quite easily when they realise what they get paid.
Enjoy the ride, support the lads and yes reality check just like Bolton, Rovers, Wigan etc etc eventually the premiership status (unless a major investor appears abd has that helped Fulham ?) will end, thats the reality of a town club punching way above its weight.
Well said that man/women as that just about some's the "reality" up.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Indecisive » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:37 am

Lord Beamish wrote:No. Decision made.
Well obviously I hope it’s a decision you’ll later regret.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Lord Beamish » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:38 am

Indecisive wrote:Well obviously I hope it’s a decision you’ll later regret.
Why would you like me to regret it? How strange.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by NL Claret » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:16 am

Lord Beamish wrote:Why would you like me to regret it? How strange.
Will you still be posting next season?

Asking for a friend.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Lord Beamish » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:17 am

NL Claret wrote:Will you still be posting next season?

Asking for a friend.
Yes. Lots of non-attending Burnley Fans post on here. I don’t see why I shouldn’t be one of them.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by houseboy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:17 am

How can we be punching above our weight when historically we are a top flight side? How can we be doing that when nearly half the sides in the PL have never been Champions of England but we have twice? I EXPECT Burnley to be a top flight club and I'm not 'grateful' to be feeding off the scraps. So no, I'm not proud we are punching above our weight because we aren't.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by South West Claret. » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:24 am

Depends how "you" interprete "weight" HB.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by NL Claret » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:52 am

Lord Beamish wrote:Yes. Lots of non-attending Burnley Fans post on here. I don’t see why I shouldn’t be one of them.
Thanks for your swift response - I will let my friend know - I/we shall look forward to your positive posts from a distance. I gave up during the Cotterill years, I also gave up Clarets Mad.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by s6t9a2f3f » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:57 am

houseboy wrote:How can we be punching above our weight when historically we are a top flight side? How can we be doing that when nearly half the sides in the PL have never been Champions of England but we have twice? I EXPECT Burnley to be a top flight club and I'm not 'grateful' to be feeding off the scraps. So no, I'm not proud we are punching above our weight because we aren't.

Who do you think currently above us in the league table as it stands right now we should season in, season out finish above and what reason ? everyone above us apart from Bournemouth and Watford have bigger stadiums, bigger crowds, bigger revenue streams, bigger wage budgets, bigger transfer budgets and probably in most cases more structural scouting networks.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Ric_C » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:14 am

Murger wrote:If you think the only reason we didn't win was because of a penalty decision, then you need to pay more attention at what's going on.
Liverpool, struggling to beat Fulham - soft penalty - win

Man City, struggling to beat a championship team, -soft penalty, offside goal - win

Burnley, struggling to break down 10 men - 3 penalties denied - lose

It wasn't the only reason, but they sure do help.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by JohnMac » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:29 am

Nonayforever wrote:One of the main reasons why Stoke & WBA got relegated was because they became stale, which is what we are now doing.
I think they both got relegated because they wanted to play a different style of football to the one that had served them well over a number of years. In pursuit of trying to play open attractive football they both got found wanting. Stoke in particular had some exciting individuals but they weren't 'Stoke' type players.

West Brom have obviously gone into panic mode whilst doing okay and Stoke are nowhere near the play offs despite being one of the pre season favourites.

To an extent, as turgid as it is to watch, we have tried to play with more flair, failed miserably and now don't have the calibre of player to dig us out when the going gets tough.

I hope we stay up but I'm not sure we have the bottle for it now.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:29 am

houseboy wrote:How can we be punching above our weight when historically we are a top flight side? How can we be doing that when nearly half the sides in the PL have never been Champions of England but we have twice? I EXPECT Burnley to be a top flight club and I'm not 'grateful' to be feeding off the scraps. So no, I'm not proud we are punching above our weight because we aren't.
Incredible sense of entitlement, throughout our history we have had to fight to eat at the top table, it was a surprise we were founder members of the football league and while we have occasionally had success in terms of trophies, ours (not unlike the town itself) is a tale of overachievement with resources at our disposal, utilising spirit and intelligence to do so, that is the history of Burnley football club.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by houseboy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:41 pm

s6t9a2f3f wrote:Who do you think currently above us in the league table as it stands right now we should season in, season out finish above and what reason ? everyone above us apart from Bournemouth and Watford have bigger stadiums, bigger crowds, bigger revenue streams, bigger wage budgets, bigger transfer budgets and probably in most cases more structural scouting networks.
And it was always thus. Nothing has changed in that sense. Bigger crowds mean nothing, ask Aston Villa/Leeds/the Sheffields and any number of 'bigger' clubs. We have achieved what we have over the years despite being one of the 'smallest' clubs in the country. I'm talking about what I expect from a perspective of what is (or has been) normal for us. Much of our history has seen us in the top flight, including a 24 year unbroken run (which not many have achieved). Don't get me wrong, I'm not living in the past and I haven't forgotten the 'lost' years but Burnley FC are not in the wrong league or punching above their weight. Some on here seem to think we should be grateful for our time at the top and then we will sink to our 'realistic level' - nonsense, our reralistic level is where we are and not one of our fans should think otherwise. I accept that some 'younger' fans only know the bad times and that can cloud thinking but those years in the wilderness do NOT define Burnley Football Club.

Be proud of the club for what it is not for where we are as if we don't belong.
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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by houseboy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Incredible sense of entitlement, throughout our history we have had to fight to eat at the top table, it was a surprise we were founder members of the football league and while we have occasionally had success in terms of trophies, ours (not unlike the town itself) is a tale of overachievement with resources at our disposal, utilising spirit and intelligence to do so, that is the history of Burnley football club.
Absolutely - you are right- but that doesn't mean that we should be 'forever grateful' for the PL letting us have some time there as some seem to believe. The sense of entitlement that you speak of comes from the so-called 'big' clubs who despite that thinking have achieved very little over the years. What right, for instance, do Newcastle have to think they should be a PL club - just because they get big crowds? Or West Ham? When the PL was first formed it was originally mooted that there should be a crowd size criteria for membership, if so we would never have got a sniff, nor would Bournemouth or Watford etc. Of course someone very sensibly decided you can't run a league on those lines and the idea was dropped but the thinking still persists to this day and even now many people, including fans, think that the presence of teams like Burnley somehow sullies the 'brand' of the PL.

The worst term I ever hear in football and it grates on my nerves no end is: little old Burnley. What a terrible and condescnding term that is. Why don't people just pat us on the head and say things like 'aaw bless'.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:58 pm

Houseboy - we have been in the top flight in 56 of 130 seasons of the football league, all of our trophies came during a time when a wage cap was in place (between 1901/61), since that was removed we had 18 of 58 seasons in the top flight and the majority of those (13) in the 15 years after the cap was removed and before tv money made it's impact.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by CombatClaret » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Football fans are so odd in their belief that the past somehow dictates or casts certain rights over the future.
Emotions over logic and a constant looking back over one shoulder at the past seems to permeate every fan base.

1) Russia should control eastern Europe.
2) Burnley should be in the top flight.

Both statements based past performance but one you have an emotional investment in so agree with.
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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by SGr » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:38 pm

Nonayforever wrote:One of the main reasons why Stoke & WBA got relegated was because they became stale, which is what we are now doing.

Same type of player, same style of player. Predictable.
This is correct. And it’s why “but this squad finished 7th last season” was a load of nonsense from day 1 of summer.

Investment and improvement is required every single season. Clubs work good positions and all too often believe they no longer have the pressure to add real quality to the squad. And from what I saw on here July-August, so do the fans.

If we stay up, this season needs to be the lesson.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Indecisive » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:38 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Why would you like me to regret it? How strange.
Sorry. Only meant that if you do regret it, it is likely because the performances and results have improved and you’ve missed it.

I can’t envisage not wanting a season ticket, although I 100% appreciate that is a personal decision. I just don’t see how it is that bad. I’ve watched since circa 1990 and for me the passion for it is there as much as ever.

Really hope we kick on and rediscover the form that saw us go 8 unbeaten just a short while ago. I’m sure the majority of us hope the same.
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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Indecisive » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:40 pm

SGr wrote:This is correct. And it’s why “but this squad finished 7th last season” was a load of nonsense from day 1 of summer.

Investment and improvement is required every single season. Clubs work good positions and all too often believe they no longer have the pressure to add real quality to the squad. And from what I saw on here July-August, so do the fans.

If we stay up, this season needs to be the lesson.
I think the comments from Dyche, and the subsequent appointment of Rigg, is an indicator that both Dyche and the board are aware of this.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Claret eze » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:46 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:we are a lower sized Championship club at best, that's what make's the summer opportunity the biggest missed opportunity for Burnley Football Club in my life time. Small minded, lack of ambition and it's coming right back to bite us. Garlick's worst hour as such.
You need to check out our history pal.we had a spell in the lower leagues and the rest of the time in the top 2 divisions.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:49 pm

Claret eze wrote:You need to check out our history pal.we had a spell in the lower leagues and the rest of the time in the top 2 divisions.
i know our history very well, we no longer get crowds of 50k

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by Claret eze » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:51 pm

Zero chance in a ground with 22k seats.

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Re: Be proud we are still punching way above weight

Post by SGr » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:36 pm

Indecisive wrote:I think the comments from Dyche, and the subsequent appointment of Rigg, is an indicator that both Dyche and the board are aware of this.
I would like to think so. The other lesson to take away is that we should not just wait for things to go wrong before we take action. That has always been a harder one for us.

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