A different view on yesterday’s defeat

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AlargeClaret
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A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by AlargeClaret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:33 pm

While bitterly disappointing to lose to a last min goal against 10 men , there needs to be perspective and I don’t think we were THAT bad .

Leics are a quality prem side and but for Tarks “ temper challenge “ and Maddison’s beauty of a goal things could have been so different . Two genuine pen shouts one stonewaller , the ever improving Charlie Taylor rampaging down their right and putting strong crosses in and nice interplay with McNeil . ( one of which resulted in an excellent goal for us )

With the players at our disposal we gave it our best shot 2nd half and got mugged by a late corner . True, we’re eye wateringly average at best at this level but calls for Dyche to go and blaming Heaton ( staggeringly incorrect ) and throwing the towel in when we could and should avoid the drop by a good few points is pure bed wetting white flag waving defeatism . We need serious player investment but we’ve a great chance of staying up and everyone should be 100% up for this , backs to the wall trench warfare .I dunno about some on here but if there’s one man I’d want with me in the trenches it’s Sean Dyche
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Vino blanco
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Vino blanco » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:35 pm

One shot on target after McNeils goal and that was from Vydra, who came on in injury time. I'm a realist.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Lord Beamish » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:39 pm

No excuse for just how poor we were against 10 men for practically all the game. The non-award of the Pen aside, we were the architects of our own downfall. 18 months of stagnation on the pitch has come back to haunt us. We struggle to break even ordinary teams down, at the Turf.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:40 pm

Well done, AlargeClaret, absolutely bang on. I can only assume the whinging idiots on here today are buddies with the berk who stood about four rows back from the front of the CFS for about twenty minutes after half time - our best period of the game - slagging off just about everyone and everything.
To be honest, I was astonished we didn't get a second or third, the way we were playing.
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:40 pm

I'm a happy clapper

There isn't any positive from yesterday. We had a golden chance to put ourselves on the verge of safety and we absolutely blew it.

There isn't any hiding from that I'm afraid.
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:45 pm

2 mins from a draw.Fine margins. we will get it right v Wolves and Bournemouth .Then our 3rd win on the spin to take us well clear of Cardiff
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by KippaxFifaHD » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:48 pm

1st half was abysmal, we can all agree on that, but 2nd half I think we did just about everything we possibly could to win apart from actually putting the ball in the net. We fashioned out the chances eg. Wood's sitter, McNeil's effort that went just over the top, Vydra's effort late on, but also I can't remember Leicester really getting out of their half until the build up to the corner. I think pointing fingers at Brady and Crouch is unfair, as imo Ben Mee was at fault for the corner, not Brady, who I think did the right thing. I'd like to see Vydra starting ahead of Wood, we could've done with him dropping into the little pockets of space in between their midfield and defence, like Maddison was doing for them 1st half. I think I saw one player do it all game and it was Jack Cork, who isn't great on the ball. I think all we needed was a bit more quality yesterday, which in the end comes down to Dyche, but all the going down talk is nonsense. We're still 2 points ahead of Cardiff and they still have City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United and most importantly US to play away from home, and if we create the same chances we did yesterday again in these next few games we're bound to take a couple of them, which could potentially get us some ppimts. Stick by the lads, UTC
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by joey13 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:48 pm

We’re not fighting a war , we are supposed to be playing football, get a grip

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by bfcjg » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 pm

I can take a defeat if we batter or at least test the opposition. Yesterday was shocking.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Murger » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:53 pm

We didn't do everything but put the ball in the net. Our only shot on target in the 2nd half came in the 90th minute. That is unacceptable against 10 men.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:04 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm a happy clapper

There isn't any positive from yesterday. We had a golden chance to put ourselves on the verge of safety and we absolutely blew it.

There isn't any hiding from that I'm afraid.
finally, someone with some honesty and a realistic view of how we (unfortunately) played !!

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by KippaxFifaHD » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:11 pm

Murger wrote:We didn't do everything but put the ball in the net. Our only shot on target in the 2nd half came in the 90th minute. That is unacceptable against 10 men.
Ah, but shots on target don't include chances created, and if Wood had at least got his miss on target,if McNeil hit the target, and if Taylor's pen wasgiven then it could be a completely different story. 13 shots yesterday, with probably about 10 in the second half. That's potentially 10 chances created, which doesn't sound too bad to me...
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by NL Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:11 pm

Predicability very little gets mentioned about the opposition by UTC posters.

Decent side Leicester and I thought at the time of the sending off that won't make too much difference. They have more quality than us and will change their game plan accordingly, sit back and slow the tempo down.

In our recent run of defeats the opposition manager has at one point in their career managed Liverpool. One of the top clubs in this country, to manage a club of that stature you must have something about you. They are tactically astute and know how to use their better equipped resources against ours.

It is tough in the PL playing against these multi million pound teams with decent managers.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Lord Beamish » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:13 pm

KippaxFifaHD wrote:Ah, but shots on target don't include chances created, and if Wood had at least got his miss on target,if McNeil hit the target, and if Taylor's pen wasgiven then it could be a completely different story. 13 shots yesterday, with probably about 10 in the second half. That's potentially 10 chances created, which doesn't sound too bad to me...
If the Wood one you’re talking about is the one where he cleared the bar from 6 yards, then the point is moot; he was flagged offside(again!).

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by taio » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:17 pm

Controlled play in the second half after incorrect tactics in the first half. We weren't remotely close to creating enough clear cut chances considering the extra man - Schmeichel barely tested. Disappointing performance and result.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by KippaxFifaHD » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:18 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:If the Wood one you’re talking about is the one where he cleared the bar from 6 yards, then the point is moot; he was flagged offside(again!).
Saw that on a replay, however I never saw the linesman raise his flag, only level it for a goal kick. Not sure if I've missed something there though

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by warksclaret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:21 pm

Sadly we got what we deserved yesterday-out thought by a side there for the taking. WE would have been ecstatic with that away performance had it been us.We have two lumps up front who have not threatened in 360 minutes of play, yet they still continue to start and play the majority of the game. How many other PL sides would not freshen it up. And are Woan and the other coach not man enough to stand up to to SD-at times the game is crying out for a change and we will bring on Vydra in injury , when the entire crowd has been looking for an early change. Stubborness will cost us our PL future. I really think Warnock will out think us now

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by claretspice » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:38 pm

Breaking down well organised units whose only focus is on defending has been an Achilles heel for a while now, against opponents as diverse as Lincoln, Newcastle and 10 man Leicester.

When we're able to counter punch or exploit teams not focused on stopping us, we're a good side and more than hold our own at this level (our recent 8 game unbeaten run included a lot of these games). But when the onus is on us to break teams down, we look very, very ponderous as a result of a combination of a lack of pace, two forwards who aren't remotely nimble or tricky, and a central midfield duo which is eminently reliable and solid but lacking the ability to commit defenders, chip in with occasional goals or find a telling pass. None of those things is in itself unusual at this level, but the overall combination probably is.

Yesterday all of that was true but also our crossing was poor too, which left us utterly bereft of creative options and Dyches substitutions only reinforced the impression we were banking on the conditions forcing a mistake. They didn't but it was noticeable that in 90 seconds on the pitch Vydra exploited the weakness of Morgan and Evans on the deck more than any of our other 3 strikers had in 90 minutes. And when you only take on one shot from outside the area from open play in 90 minutes against a side defending deep inside their own area, it's easy to understand why every single one of our goals his season has been scored from inside the box.

We're still a side plenty good enough to stay up and on balance I think we will, but a bit of a tactical tweak (not revolution) to make us braver and less predictable against this sort of defence is essential.
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by box_of_frogs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm a happy clapper

There isn't any positive from yesterday. We had a golden chance to put ourselves on the verge of safety and we absolutely blew it.

There isn't any hiding from that I'm afraid.
Nail on the head, no matter whether you’re a happy clapper, realist, or doom monger.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Spijed » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:48 pm

warksclaret wrote:I really think Warnock will out think us now
Is Warnock know for being able to think out of the box though?

Ask any football supporter and they call him a football dinosaur.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by taio » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:50 pm

Spijed wrote:Is Warnock know for being able to think out of the box though?

Ask any football supporter and they call him a football dinosaur.
I would say Warnock has proven to be a canny operator

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by IanMcL » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:02 pm

We were not great, as it was not our usual modus operandi against 10 men, with lots of possession. However, we were denied by a referee, who under no circumstances was going to award us a penalty, when we were entitled to at least one and had we been a 'favoured' club, two for sure.

We have also been robbed of the 6 points, in our 8 match should have been winning run, thanks to officials.
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:12 pm

We had loads of possession against Leicester and Palace, and created practically nothing.
It's always fine margins and we are a couple of good passes away from being a team capable of staying up.
But until we start showing a bit of nous as well as effort we will fail. We got in so many good positions yesterday and wasted them with predictable flat balls into the box, and some poor efforts at goal.
We need the players to stand up and be counted, the effort is there but so little guile.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by warksclaret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:28 pm

Spijed-lets see how canny Warnock is. We will soon know,just 7-8 games to go, but he has got a team that can win games with shear endeavour

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:32 pm

warksclaret wrote:Spijed-lets see how canny Warnock is. We will soon know,just 7-8 games to go, but he has got a team that can win games with shear endeavour
That's exactly what we used to have.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Spijed » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:42 pm

warksclaret wrote:Spijed-lets see how canny Warnock is. We will soon know,just 7-8 games to go, but he has got a team that can win games with shear endeavour
Yes we'll see. However, they've had a similar run of games to us, four games against mid-table opposition and lost heavily in three of them, to Watford, Everton & Wolves. That suggests he wasn't able to raise his players to the levels required which even I'll admit surprised me somewhat. Like you say, they've managed to win a few matches through sheer endeavour and the way they lost those three wasn't something even I was expecting.

I thought they would be tight affairs, so it was a pleasant surprise when they lost quite comfortably and helped our goal difference too.

Fair play to him if we lose, and I'm sure I'll not be the only one admitting defeat!

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:54 pm

I agree I'd like Dyche beside me if I were in the trenches, but worryingly I'd rather like Warnock there too.
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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Ric_C » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:26 pm

you can hit the bar 5 times miss three open goals and have 0 shots on target or you could hit 5 long rangers straight at the keeper and have 5 shots on target.

We created enough to win the game, we just didn’t take them. The soft goals we are conceding is much more of an issue for me

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by LongSider75 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm

We played the entire game as if we were 3-0 up, slow, laboured, sideways or backwards. While we had the upper hand in the second half, why did we not go 3 up front and go for the jugular?. Instead we throw Heaton forward and get caught with a sucker punch which in all honesty, always looked likely. I fear for us now. Awful substitutions once again.!!

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:02 pm

claretspice wrote:Breaking down well organised units whose only focus is on defending has been an Achilles heel for a while now, against opponents as diverse as Lincoln, Newcastle and 10 man Leicester.

When we're able to counter punch or exploit teams not focused on stopping us, we're a good side and more than hold our own at this level (our recent 8 game unbeaten run included a lot of these games). But when the onus is on us to break teams down, we look very, very ponderous as a result of a combination of a lack of pace, two forwards who aren't remotely nimble or tricky, and a central midfield duo which is eminently reliable and solid but lacking the ability to commit defenders, chip in with occasional goals or find a telling pass. None of those things is in itself unusual at this level, but the overall combination probably is.

Yesterday all of that was true but also our crossing was poor too, which left us utterly bereft of creative options and Dyches substitutions only reinforced the impression we were banking on the conditions forcing a mistake. They didn't but it was noticeable that in 90 seconds on the pitch Vydra exploited the weakness of Morgan and Evans on the deck more than any of our other 3 strikers had in 90 minutes. And when you only take on one shot from outside the area from open play in 90 minutes against a side defending deep inside their own area, it's easy to understand why every single one of our goals his season has been scored from inside the box.

We're still a side plenty good enough to stay up and on balance I think we will, but a bit of a tactical tweak (not revolution) to make us braver and less predictable against this sort of defence is essential.
To be honest we’re not the only team who struggles against teams set up to defend. I’m constantly listening to Evertonians complaining about the same thing and look how much they’ve spent!

I just hope that, if we do stay up, this season acts as a wake-up call and we do freshen the squad up, if nothing else to give us a few options. We’re far too one-dimensional.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by dsr » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:07 pm

Murger wrote:We didn't do everything but put the ball in the net. Our only shot on target in the 2nd half came in the 90th minute. That is unacceptable against 10 men.
It would have been better if McNeil's shot had been a pearoller into the middle of the goal. That would have improved the stats.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by CFS » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:10 pm

Cardiff will play for a draw knowing who we have to play after that as will most the sides we face now.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by Clevedon Claret » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:16 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm a happy clapper

There isn't any positive from yesterday. We had a golden chance to put ourselves on the verge of safety and we absolutely blew it.

There isn't any hiding from that I'm afraid.
This.

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Re: A different view on yesterday’s defeat

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:20 pm

Here's another view on it; we lost, we're as good as phukt :)


Only joking ;)

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