Disappearance of Madeleine McCann

[Dark Cloud]

That would seem the most likely thing, but in certain circumstances she could have fallen into a storm drain, or a river or even been abducted by an "opportunist" as she was wandering.

[TVC15]

I don’t personally think it was just ‘bad luck’. I find it hard to believe that a random abductor wandered into the complex, picked an apartment at chance and bingo! unattended kids asleep.

Surely they were being watched or tipped off by hotel staff. If they’d left the kids once and it had happened, then yes, i’d say it is unlucky. To do it repeatedly leaves themselves wide open. In my opinion of course.

Not saying it was bad luck or random...I agree this could easily have been planned.
I'm saying that the hundreds or probably thousands of parents who have done this regularly have been lucky that it has not happened to them. Undoubtedly there will be certain hotels and resorts that are well known for this and these could also be easily targeted by people wanting to abduct children.

Seriously are those people saying that they should be put in prison also saying any parent who has done this or who continues to do it should also be put in prison ? Or are they saying they should only be put in prison if their children got abducted as a result ?....because irrespective of whether their child was abducted the act of negligence has already taken place by leaving their kids unattended.

As I said I have never done this and never even thought about it. Like others have said if you are taking your children on holiday then that means you sacrifice certain things to look after them....I never even liked putting them in holiday clubs - I loved going on holiday with the kids and I didn't want or need a rest from them. Spending all that time with your children on holiday is very different to when you are at home and have the stress of work etc.

I have no doubt the McCann`s loved their children so losing one of them for ever to me is more than enough punishment.

[Steve1956]

Why’s that then ?
They lost their daughter - yes they were negligent but they have paid the worst possible price.
What’s being professionals got to do with it ? Lots of parents have done this - and I bet plenty still do. Do any of them get persecuted or prosecuted ? No - because they have been lucky enough to not get their children abducted....because irrespective of whether their daughter got abducted or not this is what can happen if you leave your kids unattended yet plenty still do.

So you also go out on the pisss and leave your kids alone when on holiday,guess you just got LUCKY and no one abducted them...geez how can you defend those assholes!

[Jakubclaret]

So you also go out on the pisss and leave your kids alone when on holiday,guess you just got LUCKY and no one abducted them...geez how can you defend those assholes!

Let's just all abandon any sort of duty of care & responsibility towards our children & just have a good time on the lash, chances are we will be lucky.

[TVC15]

So you also go out on the pisss and leave your kids alone when on holiday,guess you just got LUCKY and no one abducted them...geez how can you defend those assholes!

Stop being a f’in knob - i’ve already said I have never done this and never will.
Just because I don’t want to hang them like you does not mean i’m defending them in any way.
Just for you and Jakub I’ll repeat it - thousands of other parents who have done this and continue to do it have been lucky the same thing did not happen to them.

[Jakubclaret]

Bad luck & good luck doesn't feature in any shape or form, it's a massive big F***off no no in epic proportions from any sane perspective.

[Steve1956]

Don't include me in your thousands pal,I would never leave a baby and go out on the pisss,irresponsible in the extreme, where did I say I wanted to hang them?

[kicker_conspiracy]

I'd imagine most people have their views entrenched after 12 years of this saga but the following piece from John James is well worth a read.
https://johnjamessite.com/2019/03/19/th ... lie-redux/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And of course, if you're not familiar with it already, the Jill Havern site contains anything you could possibly want to look for in relation to this case.
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/portal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1354 ... mber-19309" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TVC15]

Don't include me in your thousands pal,I would never leave a baby and go out on the pisss,irresponsible in the extreme, where did I say I wanted to hang them?

Not your pal.....”pal”...where did I include you in the thousands ? Why are you being outraged about something nobody has ever accused you of ? It’s almost like you have something to hide.

You said you’d hang them in the same post that I said i’d left my kids unattended and it was fine

Jakub - since you keep on twisting this to suit your own agenda why don’t you f’in read what I actually said. I said the many parents who had left their kids unattended over many decades and still do are the lucky ones that nothing had happened to them....it really isn’t that difficult to understand.
Get down from that moral high horse of yours and just read what people post

[Steve1956]

Not your pal.....”pal”...where did I include you in the thousands ? Why are you being outraged about something has never accused you of ? It’s almost like you have something to hide.

You said you’d hang them in the same post that I said i’d left my kids unattended and it was fine

Jakub - since you keep on twisting this to suit your own agenda why don’t you f’in read what I actually said. I said the many parents who had left their kids unattended over many decades and still do are the lucky ones that nothing had happened to them....it really isn’t that difficult to understand.
Get down from that moral high horse of yours and just read what people post

Whatever pal,by the way do you have children?

[Jakubclaret]

Not your pal.....”pal”

You said you’d hang them in the same post that I said i’d left my kids unattended and it was fine

Jakub - since you keep on twisting this to suit your own agenda why don’t you f’in read what I actually said. I said the many parents who had left their kids unattended over many decades and still do are the lucky ones that nothing had happened to them....it really isn’t that difficult to understand.
Get down from that moral high horse of yours and just read what people post

You can eliminate any sort of luck or bad luck by just following a simple golden rule, I’ve worked in social services dealing with children from broken families regarding fostering & assessed adoption. The basis of your defence seems to be that plenty of people do this abandoning practice but strike “lucky” so it somehow excuses the McCanns that it was just unfortunate that they did strike unlucky, I assume you don’t have any children, no high horse just recognise simple right & wrong, People text people when driving & chances are they will never run anybody over but if they did, would the prosecution view this as well plenty of people do this without any problems so this is just unfortunate & case closed.

[TVC15]

You can eliminate any sort of luck or bad luck by just following a simple golden rule, I’ve worked in social services dealing with children from broken families regarding fostering & assessed adoption. The basis of your defence seems to be that plenty of people do this abandoning practice but strike “lucky” so it somehow excuses the McCanns that it was just unfortunate that they did strike unlucky, I assume you don’t have any children, no high horse just recognise simple right & wrong, People text people when driving & chances are they will never run anybody over but if they did, would the prosecution view this as well plenty of people do this without any problems so this is just unfortunate & case closed.

Do you work in a job where you don’t have to be too good at reading ?
Where am I defending what they did ? I have said I am not defending them.
You are saying they deserve to go to prison - I disagree. Why have they not gone to prison then ? And why have all those other parents who do this on holidays regularly not prosecuted / going to prison ?

[Jakubclaret]

Do you work in a job where you don’t have to be too good at reading ?
Where am I defending what they did ? I have said I am not defending them.
You are saying they deserve to go to prison - I disagree. Why have they not gone to prison then ? And why have all those other parents who do this on holidays regularly not prosecuted / going to prison ?

Because it doesn’t frequently happen to the extent of abduction if that’s the real happening, they haven’t gone to prison because of they profession & they class, people in life do lots of wrong things in life & more often than not get away with this as the chances are slim, but this doesn’t excuse the unlucky 1s who do the wrong things & fall foul, the sensible 1s are the 1s who don’t take any risks. You do appear to be defending them by your posts & im not the only person to be reaching this conclusion.

[Steve1956]

Why would that be funny ?
Are you one of those pr-icks who laughs at his sh-it unfunny jokes.
Yep i’ve got children cheers....I hope you f’in haven’t. If you have I feel sorry for the poor little f-uckers.

Ok Mr Angry!

[Steve1956]

Because it doesn’t frequently happen to the extent of abduction if that’s the real happening, they haven’t gone to prison because of they profession & they class, people in life do lots of wrong things in life & more often than not get away with this as the chances are slim, but this doesn’t excuse the unlucky 1s who do the wrong things & fall foul, the sensible 1s are the 1s who don’t take any risks. You do appear to be defending them by your posts & im not the only person to be reaching this conclusion.

Hes a blinkered knob who doesn't like other peoples views ....just his own, he needs to take his head from up his arse.

[TVC15]

Because it doesn’t frequently happen to the extent of abduction if that’s the real happening, they haven’t gone to prison because of they profession & they class, people in life do lots of wrong things in life & more often than not get away with this as the chances are slim, but this doesn’t excuse the unlucky 1s who do the wrong things & fall foul, the sensible 1s are the 1s who don’t take any risks. You do appear to be defending them by your posts & im not the only person to be reaching this conclusion.

I’ll take it with a pinch of salt that the only person who thinks that is a pr-ick who also seems to struggle with reading.
So you think I am defending them - even though I have said several times I am not defending them and what they did is wrong and that I have never done it and would never consider doing it myself....but yep if you think that is me defending them there is nothing much I can do.

So do you think that parents who leave their children and who don’t get their children abducted deserving of prison ? Because surely you must as it is exactly the same act of negligence as if they do get abducted.

And to make it clear I do think anyone who leaves their kids unattended is being negligent...and in most cases I don’t think that warrants a prison sentence. I do think k those parents who left their children at home whilst they swanned off to Benidorm (or somewhere similar) a few years ago should get a prison sentence though.
I also think there would be other cases that could warrant this....or repeat offenders.
But you still have not answered why you think people who leave their kids unattended whilst on holiday are not prosecuted and sent to prison ?

[Steve1956]

FB_IMG_1553015698584.jpg (60.57 KiB) Viewed 2352 times

[ClaretAndJew]

FB_IMG_1553015698584.jpg

What do screen grabs of press conferences/interviews prove, in this context, Steve?

[TVC15]

Hes a blinkered knob who doesn't like other peoples views ....just his own, he needs to take his head from up his arse.

Nah it’s just your views you pr-ick. Try answering the questions yourself rather than making sh-it up.
Why are parents who leave their kids unattended not prosecuted and sent to prison ?
Do you think the army should get involved and do a midnight raid on Butlins or a resort in Benidorm ?
Or is it just when something tragic happens that you think they should go to prison ?

[Jakubclaret]

I’ll take it with a pinch of salt that the only person who thinks that is a pr-ick who also seems to struggle with reading.
So you think I am defending them - even though I have said several times I am not defending them and what they did is wrong and that I have never done it and would never consider doing it myself....but yep if you think that is me defending them there is nothing much I can do.

So do you think that parents who leave their children and who don’t get their children abducted deserving of prison ? Because surely you must as it is exactly the same act of negligence as if they do get abducted.

And to make it clear I do think anyone who leaves their kids unattended is being negligent...and in most cases I don’t think that warrants a prison sentence. I do think k those parents who left their children at home whilst they swanned off to Benidorm (or somewhere similar) a few years ago should get a prison sentence though.
I also think there would be other cases that could warrant this....or repeat offenders.
But you still have not answered why you think people who leave their kids unattended whilst on holiday are not prosecuted and sent to prison ?

I did answer the question I'm not entirely sure who is capable of reading & who isn't, my answer was it doesn't happen frequently enough for abduction to happen, & you can only be made aware of a crime until the crime has been committed, for me to become a murderer my victim needs to be deceased first. Until something happens criminally as a result of an action by & large it's ignored, doesn't necessarily mean this is right or safeguard against it happening.

[Steve1956]

What do screen grabs of press conferences/interviews prove, in this context, Steve?

If I had gone on holiday with my three children I would have spent the holiday with my three children,I wouldn't have swanned off on the pisss and left three children alone,and almost surely I would never have show my face in public again,let alone laugh and joke for the cameras and bring a book out,Bugler's parents still show there grief 20 odd years later,the MCCann's probably went on he pisss the night after Madeleine was abducted.Absolutely useless parents who don't deserve to have children.

[Blackrod]

Interesting links posted above. Without the benefactors money and him jumping in a cause he knew nothing about imo they couldn’t have run such a favourable campaign. Can’t think of any parent that would leave such young children out of sight so often. To say they were useless parents just about sums it up. I wonder what the other children will think of their parents negligence that resulted in their sister vanishing ?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They've manipulated the press/society wonderfully well pretty much ever since it happened.

A lot of people will have a simlar opinion to many on here though.
They're bad parents, they've got away with it due to their social status and if it was the average family from a council estate this would've been forgotten about by now and I suspect their other kids taken into care.

The more I read or watch about it the more I'm inclined to think they know exactly what happened to her and where she is.

[Billy Balfour]

It appears that there are one or two on here who feel it's perfectly fine for them to leave young children alone in the evening when on holiday, while they go out to the bar/club, as long as someone checks up on the children every now and then. Well it's not. First of all there could be a fire or another emergency that urgently requires an adult in attendance. Secondly, and this is a big secondly, you have absolutely no idea as to who has access, via a pass key, to your caravan, chalet, apartment or hotel room.

[Bordeauxclaret]

The series doesn’t really tell us anything new, heavily weighted against the parents, it does give a decent insight into the way the press handled it. Obviously they courted the press and then had to fight them.

The couple come across as cold and unrepentant which I don’t think comes across well to the public.
How much of a front this was I don’t think we’ll ever know.

[tybfc]

The whole investigation has been a farce really and seems corrupt from top to bottom with Government ministers looking as though they may have become involved.

From a personal view it stinks.

A young family of three in a secluded set of apartments in Portugal.

One is 3 years old and has two younger twins in the room with her.

Their parents are both experienced professional doctors.

The kid's parent's go out for a night out. Forget what they say about going back to check on them blah de blah.

Me and my wife went away with my 13 year old son in February to India.

The hotel complex, which we have been going to for 18 years, is very safe.

Not once did we let him out of our sight. Perhaps we are over protective?

Each night we would go for a meal and as soon as he was tired we would go back to our room (with a couple of all inclusive drinks) and sit on our balcony watching the world go by whilst he slept in his bed.

The next morning he would be up early, a walk along the beach and the same for the extent of the holiday.

Not one single minute was he left in the apartment alone. And he is 13 years old.

I have always been of the view since I first saw Madeleine's mum's face the day after her "disappearance" that there was something not right and my view has not changed. She shows no emotion and never has. Her husband just milks the money.

I do not think that she will ever be found because they are too clever.

[dsr]

I do not think that she will ever be found because they are too clever.

They'd certainly need to be. Finding an untraceable hiding place for a dead body, in a foreign country, with no car? Not easy. I take you're on the "premeditated murder" theory? They decided in advance to murder their daughter and thought that leaving her alone was the best way to avoid suspicion?

[tybfc]

They'd certainly need to be. Finding an untraceable hiding place for a dead body, in a foreign country, with no car? Not easy. I take you're on the "premeditated murder" theory? They decided in advance to murder their daughter and thought that leaving her alone was the best way to avoid suspicion?

I had watched too many murder / mystery shows obviously.

I think that her parents killed her whether intentionally or not and somehow covered it up.

As I said clever but callous people.

[fidelcastro]

I had watched too many murder / mystery shows obviously.

I think that her parents killed her whether intentionally or not and somehow covered it up.

Then you're a clown.

[tybfc]

And that's your opinion.

[fidelcastro]

And that's your opinion.

It is.

Are you saying that they were rubbish Doctors or closet paedos?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It is.

Are you saying that they were rubbish Doctors or closet paedos?

He didn't say anything of the sort...

[tybfc]

I'm saying that they were absolute rubbish parents and I have always thought that they were the cause of her death. Nothing to do with being bad doctors or paedos as I wouldn't know or wish to comment.

[fidelcastro]

I'm saying that they were absolute rubbish parents and I have always thought that they were the cause of her death. Nothing to do with being bad doctors or paedos as I wouldn't know or wish to comment.

I think most would agree that they, at best, made a huge error of judgement by leaving their children alone in the apartment... but killed her? Deliberately or accidentally? Come on!

That's why I was asking the question.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I think most would agree that they, at best, made a huge error of judgement by leaving their children alone in the apartment... but killed her? Deliberately or accidentally? Come on!

That's why I was asking the question.

Wasn't it reported at the time that they gave their kids sleeping pills??

That could result in accidental death.

[fidelcastro]

Wasn't it reported at the time that they gave their kids sleeping pills??

That could result in accidental death.

Only on wild conspiracy websites.

[dsr]

Wasn't it reported at the time that they gave their kids sleeping pills??

That could result in accidental death.

Of course it could. We have all heard of someone taking twenty times the number of sleeping pills and being rushed to hospital and having his or her stomach pumped out. Sometimes they survive, sometimes not.

What we have not heard of is someone taking two pills instead of one and dying so fast that there is no point in the hospital dash. Sleeping pills overdose is a nonsense scenario. They don't work that fast, and they need to be taken in vastly too high a quantity.

[dsr]

I had watched too many murder / mystery shows obviously.

I think that her parents killed her whether intentionally or not and somehow covered it up.

As I said clever but callous people.

Forget accidental death. This is the scenario for accidental death.

1. The parents (both doctors) accidentally do something which will kill their daughter in such a way that they believe they will go to jail for it.
2. The girl dies.
3. One parent comes back to the room to check, and finds the girl dead.
4. That parent makes all possible attempts to revive her.
5. That parent goes back to the dining table and attracts the attention of the other parent, and tells them the news.
6. Parent two makes all possible attempts to revive her.
7. The parents decide to cover up the death by disposing of the body.
8. One or both of them goes and finds a place to do it - within walking distance. A place which subsequently proves to be untraceable.
9. They bury the body.
10. They return to the dining table, where their friends have not noticed anything wrong.

How long are you giving them to do all this? Bear in mind that the grieving process for the child, which both parents do separately, is often (they tell me) more than the five minutes or so that must be the most you can allow.

I suppose you can streamline the process slightly by getting the other four dinner guests to act as accomplices. But it's a long shot. If you ask four almost-strangers to assist in the burying of your child's body because you have accidentally killed her, you have to accept there is a decent chance at least one of them will tell the police. So I think we can exclude the accomplices.

No, I think if you want to pin the blame on the parents, you have to make it a Columbo-style complicated plan whereby they decided to do away with their child, and did it in foreign parts with no car present just to make it more challenging. Having her disappear from her bedroom at home would presumably lack the artistic merit.

[tybfc]

I think most would agree that they, at best, made a huge error of judgement by leaving their children alone in the apartment... but killed her? Deliberately or accidentally? Come on!

That's why I was asking the question.

As I said above it has always been my opinion that by some way they killed her. When or where who will ever know?

And I will probably be wrong.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Only on wild conspiracy websites.

Shame it was also reported by multiple international news outlets

[GodIsADeeJay81]

As I said above it has always been my opinion that by some way they killed her. When or where who will ever know?

And I will probably be wrong.

Their actions lead to her death, assuming she's dead.

[fidelcastro]

As I said above it has always been my opinion that by some way they killed her. When or where who will ever know?

And I will probably be wrong.

Yes. probably.

[fidelcastro]

Shame it was also reported by multiple international news outlets

Which ones?

BBC? ITV? Channel4? SKY?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Which ones?

BBC? ITV? Channel4? SKY?

Knock yourself out and Google it.

[fidelcastro]

Knock yourself out and Google it.

I have. The most well known ones are The 'Express Group' and 'The News Of The World'.

Say no more really.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Ah so unless it's one of your specific list you aren't interested.

Note how none of them were sued for reporting those claims.

[fidelcastro]

Ah so unless it's one of your specific list you aren't interested.

Note how none of them were sued for reporting those claims.

They were actually, but never mind.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Wasn't it reported at the time that they gave their kids sleeping pills??

That could result in accidental death.

If we know anything from this case it’s that all the reporting was 100% accurate and proven...

[Dyched]

Forget accidental death. This is the scenario for accidental death.

1. The parents (both doctors) accidentally do something which will kill their daughter in such a way that they believe they will go to jail for it.
2. The girl dies.
3. One parent comes back to the room to check, and finds the girl dead.
4. That parent makes all possible attempts to revive her.
5. That parent goes back to the dining table and attracts the attention of the other parent, and tells them the news.
6. Parent two makes all possible attempts to revive her.
7. The parents decide to cover up the death by disposing of the body.
8. One or both of them goes and finds a place to do it - within walking distance. A place which subsequently proves to be untraceable.
9. They bury the body.
10. They return to the dining table, where their friends have not noticed anything wrong.

How long are you giving them to do all this? Bear in mind that the grieving process for the child, which both parents do separately, is often (they tell me) more than the five minutes or so that must be the most you can allow.

I suppose you can streamline the process slightly by getting the other four dinner guests to act as accomplices. But it's a long shot. If you ask four almost-strangers to assist in the burying of your child's body because you have accidentally killed her, you have to accept there is a decent chance at least one of them will tell the police. So I think we can exclude the accomplices.

No, I think if you want to pin the blame on the parents, you have to make it a Columbo-style complicated plan whereby they decided to do away with their child, and did it in foreign parts with no car present just to make it more challenging. Having her disappear from her bedroom at home would presumably lack the artistic merit.

I have to agree.

More chance the twins killed her then ate her

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They were actually, but never mind.

Ah yeah, the British ones were, but none of the others.

My bad, I think.