This “ revoke article 50” petition 5 million and rising ?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:52 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:I voted Leave and I want to revoke article 50 because it’s an absolute f#ck up by our political system and leaders.

Cameron promised it in his manifesto to quell support for Farage; then delivered the referendum wrongly thinking that Leave has no chance. The Leave campaign was riddled with lies and deceit, all being fed via social media which meant it was ingested by many as facts - me included. Roll forward nearly 3 years and they’ve worked out that the referendum should have come AFTER all the negotiation to find out if the deal negotiated would be acceptable or not. I don’t want May’s deal, nor do I want WTO rules, in fact what I have learnt over the past 3 years is that we are actually much better off being in the EU with our veto and being able to influence EU policies from within.

Rick, surely BOTH sides campaigns were were riddled with lies and deceit. It's just that because they won, the leave campaign has been picked over much more thoroughly.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:53 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Spiral, don't you see any irony in your "banal insults" comment and the response of some of the remain supporters to the referendum result?

Agree, so far as I'm aware, the words I used weren;t quoted in "any formal literature...."

I also find it ironic that so many people are marching for a "people's vote" or second referendum" or whatever the latest phrase is, particularly when the claim is that "no one knew" back in 2016. Really, do we all know now?

There isn't any irony. The case I'm making is that the march & petition are being undertaken in a peaceful and legal manner, with clearly defined objectives, and without any mention of leave voters. Now, some remain voters might have said some things which might have upset you, but those comments have no greater bearing on the value of the march and petition as political acts than the vox pop I heard on the BBC the day after the referendum, "I voted leave to get the muslims out" (the BBC actually broadcast that), had on the legitimacy of the referendum result.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:58 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Why would we keep having votes again and again until certain people get the result that they wanted in the first place? We don't do that with a general election

That’s exactly what we do with our general elections - have the option to change our minds every 4-5 years

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:58 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:I voted Leave and I want to revoke article 50 because it’s an absolute f#ck up by our political system and leaders.

Cameron promised it in his manifesto to quell support for Farage; then delivered the referendum wrongly thinking that Leave has no chance. The Leave campaign was riddled with lies and deceit, all being fed via social media which meant it was ingested by many as facts - me included. Roll forward nearly 3 years and they’ve worked out that the referendum should have come AFTER all the negotiation to find out if the deal negotiated would be acceptable or not. I don’t want May’s deal, nor do I want WTO rules, in fact what I have learnt over the past 3 years is that we are actually much better off being in the EU with our veto and being able to influence EU policies from within.

Quitter

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:59 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Rick, surely BOTH sides campaigns were were riddled with lies and deceit. It's just that because they won, the leave campaign has been picked over much more thoroughly.

The vote was between change and the status quo. Details of the status quo were known, (I mean that axiomatically), details of change were not, or at least not to a desirable extent. This is a false equivalence you're presenting. Change hasn't been combed over more thoroughly solely because it won on the day, it has been picked over much more thoroughly because we now know there were clear material deficiencies in the arguments made which now need addressing for legal and constitutional reasons, if nothing else.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:59 pm

Hey, I've just signed the 'revoke article 50'
petition and I regard myself as a reasonably well informed and intelligent human being.
I'm the 5,259,755th signature.

Noticed that the 'Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019'
petition has amassed just over 530,000.

I've also come to the conclusion that I don't think there is a majority
in Parliament for any deal and certainly not May's deal.
And I believe the same is likely if we were to ask the people to vote for
their preferred deal and that also includes a 'no deal'.

Given the above it seems to make sense to revoke article 50
and review the situation again in say a years' time.

And, in the meantime, change the current electoral system and
then hold another General Election. Maybe even another referendum?

Now I realise that that isn't likely to happen but then quite clearly
something major needs to happen.

We can't carry on like this for much longer.
Can we?

Anyone for a revolution?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:06 pm

jurek wrote:Hey, I've just signed the 'revoke article 50'
petition and I regard myself as a reasonably well informed and intelligent human being.
I'm the 5,259,755th signature.

We can't carry on like this for much longer.
Can we?

Anyone for a revolution?

Hi jurek, at last, someone else who believes in the revolution!

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:15 pm

Spiral wrote:There isn't any irony. The case I'm making is that the march & petition are being undertaken in a peaceful and legal manner, with clearly defined objectives, and without any mention of leave voters. Now, some remain voters might have said some things which might have upset you, but those comments have no greater bearing on the value of the march and petition as political acts than the vox pop I heard on the BBC the day after the referendum, "I voted leave to get the muslims out" (the BBC actually broadcast that), had on the legitimacy of the referendum result.

Hi Spiral, I applaud the "peaceful and legal manner" of the marchers. I'm not "upset" by things that people have said, disappointed is all I'll grant. Yes, I'm 65, but I don't feel old - and still able to work full time, and enjoy it. Uneducated? not me - good uni degree, obviously a long time back. However, I do dispute that my friends who didn't go to uni - very few did back then - aren't equally intelligent and have a right to express their opinions. In the same way that we don't discriminate on the grounds of gender, race, religious beliefs, disability, I defend the right of everyone not to be discriminated against on the grounds of educational achievement or age.

I'm a "what unites us" type of person - not "let's find what can divide us..."

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Believe it or not, Paul, but there are British citizens in other countries.

And i'm still waiting for you to apologise for your false accusation.

******* loads in North Korea with internet access and a grave worry about Brexit!

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:22 pm

Me and my son tried to see how many times we could sign this morning and we got to eight within 20 minutes, using eight email addresses and eight different names. We couldn't get one through is his name - he's 17.

My sister, who went on the march yesterday hasn't signed it as she thought it worthless after it got to 2 million. I did point out that 16 million managed to make it to the poll booth. My guess is that around 800,000 people have signed it, 5 per cent of the remain vote. So I guess I agree with my sister.

I also agree with Jurek. I spend a lot of time in France, work and play, and I think we should revoke Article 50 and don the yellow vests and then, when the northern haulage companies set up the blockades we can really become European and have a revolution, or just dump a load of manure in Aldi's car park.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:25 pm

when the northern haulage companies set up the blockades

That was supposed to happen on the M6 at Jct 34, 35, and 36 on Friday.

Guess what didn't happen?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:30 pm

Spiral wrote:The vote was between change and the status quo. Details of the status quo were known, (I mean that axiomatically), details of change were not, or at least not to a desirable extent. This is a false equivalence you're presenting. Change hasn't been combed over more thoroughly solely because it won on the day, it has been picked over much more thoroughly because we now know there were clear material deficiencies in the arguments made which now need addressing for legal and constitutional reasons, if nothing else.

Point taken and I accept what you're saying there, but I also think there weren't many (if any) downright lies, more speculation about what an exit would mean because as you say nobody really knew and actually they still don't because it hasn't happened yet. Most of the assertions made by the leave campaign were made using crystal balls and may prove correct or indeed well wide of the mark when the exit occurs, but surely sensible voters realised that at the time.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:32 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Spiral, I applaud the "peaceful and legal manner" of the marchers. I'm not "upset" by things that people have said, disappointed is all I'll grant. Yes, I'm 65, but I don't feel old - and still able to work full time, and enjoy it. Uneducated? not me - good uni degree, obviously a long time back. However, I do dispute that my friends who didn't go to uni - very few did back then - aren't equally intelligent and have a right to express their opinions. In the same way that we don't discriminate on the grounds of gender, race, religious beliefs, disability, I defend the right of everyone not to be discriminated against on the grounds of educational achievement or age.

I'm a "what unites us" type of person - not "let's find what can divide us..."

That's all splendid stuff, and I agree with virtually all of it, but I hope you see that my point was that the marchers weren't marching to make a statement about leave voters but rather a statement about a political policy, and as such it seems odd to criticise the march and petition on the grounds of unsavoury opinions that might have been expressed. I hate to call it out like this but it's almost like you're attacking a strawman.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:34 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:That was supposed to happen on the M6 at Jct 34, 35, and 36 on Friday.

Guess what didn't happen?

Really Lancs? I just made that up

Are you getting as tired of the debate as me?

I said to my sis - I'm 70 per cent remain but the 30 per cent of me is fearful that the northern working class is being dumped on again and that makes me a little uneasy. I just think that world weary workers in Burnley, Barnsley and Hull deserve to be heard as much as we who think we are cleverer.

The cyclone in Mozambique put it in sharp context for me.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:34 pm

I tend not to get into all this political stuff, but here's a thought:
As I see it, the only relevant poll would be to ask the 17million plus who voted to leave if they have changed their minds given the mess that's been made of leaving.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:39 pm

boatshed bill wrote:As I see it, the only relevant poll would be to ask the 17million plus who voted to leave if they have changed their minds given the mess that's been made of leaving.

Not sure that would make sense, Bill. That would give the remainers a major advantage as they can only gain votes.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:39 pm

I think ultimately too many of our politicians on ALL sides have played party politics with this issue when it really is far bigger and far more important to the country and it's future. From the Labour Party deliberately being obstructive to add to the chaos in the hope of forcing an opportunistic general election to the SNP hoping to use it to get another Scottish vote, to prominent members of the Conservative Party seeing an opportunity for self promotion and a crack at the leadership. They are all self serving and I find that very, very disappointing where this issue is concerned.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:39 pm

Really Lancs? I just made that up

Are you getting as tired of the debate as me?

I said to my sis - I'm 70 per cent remain but the 30 per cent of me is fearful that the northern working class is being dumped on again and that makes me a little uneasy. I just think that world weary workers in Burnley, Barnsley and Hull deserve to be heard as much as we who think we are cleverer.

The cyclone in Mozambique put it in sharp context for me.

Yup. Had it completely, but mainly because millions of people think that a "No Deal" is going to be fine I can't stop worrying about it.

The only hope I cling to is that whatever happens, the people in charge realise that they have to rebalance the economy from the SE, but I'm not very confident about that, even if the Magic Grandpa somehow gets in.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:42 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Not sure that would make sense, Bill. That would give the remainers a major advantage as they can only gain votes.

They could do the same poll for the remainers, Frank.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:44 pm

How would make sure you got people to tell the truth about how they voted though?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:48 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yup. Had it completely, but mainly because millions of people think that a "No Deal" is going to be fine I can't stop worrying about it.

The only hope I cling to is that whatever happens, the people in charge realise that they have to rebalance the economy from the SE, but I'm not very confident about that, even if the Magic Grandpa somehow gets in.

If he gets in then a post brexit shock will feel like a little tickle.

He won't. We're not that stupid.

My sis says she just wants us to be friends with our neighbours. I tell her we are - people generally get on but governments don't. This isn't really an economic argument.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:56 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:How would make sure you got people to tell the truth about how they voted though?

I have absolutely no idea.
But how do we know why anyone puts their x in any poll? They could step outside and think "Oops, I ticked the wrong box"

I'm talking about an opinion poll, basically, not a referendum, nothing legally binding.
I do wonder though if a fair percentage of original "leavers" may now be having second thoughts.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:00 pm

boatshed bill wrote:I have absolutely no idea.
But how do we know why anyone puts their x in any poll? They could step outside and think "Oops, I ticked the wrong box"
I'm talking about an opinion poll, basically, not a referendum, nothing legally binding.
I do wonder though if a fair percentage of original "leavers" may now be having second thoughts.

I think that would work.

You could ask the Leave voters if they would now change their mind. And then if you have more than 600,000 or so you could then ask the remain voters to check if any of them have drifted to leave.

Too easy for Parliament and not on everybody's agenda.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:06 pm

Guich wrote:I think that would work.

You could ask the Leave voters if they would now change their mind. And then if you have more than 600,000 or so you could then ask the remain voters to check if any of them have drifted to leave.

Too easy for Parliament and not on everybody's agenda.

I really doubt now if any of our MPs actually have the slightest interest in doing the things they were elected to do:
Serve the community which elected them,
Work for the good of the country as a whole.

All I'm seeing is a bunch of self-serving tosspots

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:46 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Rick, surely BOTH sides campaigns were were riddled with lies and deceit. It's just that because they won, the leave campaign has been picked over much more thoroughly.

Exactly, leave were handicapped from the beginning with the pro EU leaflets & the remain campaign had more money to throw at it, & against all odds still managed to overcome the disadvantage. Head to head listening to the likes of Nicola sturgeon & Nigel farage ect in the media their was only going to be 1 winner, charisma & the ability to articulate your argument in a coherent manner struck resonance.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:04 pm

One thing is for sure....every racist in the country voted Leave. I’m not saying all leave voters are racists.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:32 pm

As others have said, it's trivial to pull out the countries and obviously the majority are the UK.

: Capture.JPG (63.47 KiB) Viewed 2138 times

So far as I'm aware the country/postcode that you fill in on the petition is what's used for this information. No geo-location based on IP so far as I'm aware.

However, after the previous petition which had a load of issues I'm aware that gov.uk have significantly cracked down on bots, fake singing, etc.

Obviously they haven't announced what the measures are because then it becomes easy to defeat them but they're confident that automated singing of the petitions would be very difficult to do in volume.

In terms of people double-signing, that's harder to pick up on (but arguably won't have as material an impact). Realistically most people don't have a multitude of email addresses and there's cross-checking to a whole variety of sources that can be done for anything that looks suspicious. Ultimately though, most people just can't be bothered.

I'm sure there is some inflation, I'm not convinced it's material.

As to whether it makes any difference, who knows? It's an obvious reaction to May repeatedly pretending she's enacting the will of the people and I imagine it will get some politicians thinking about what their constituency wants. I think it's indicative of the strength of public opinion but I'm not sure if it's telling us anything new. On top of that we have a PM who is so fixated on her party's requirements that it's difficult to tell if much notice will be taken of the people she purports to represent.

A decent map of the petition signing by constituency here https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/?241584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:35 pm

It's pretty clear to most People........ a lot of leave voters have changed their mind!

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:35 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:One thing is for sure....every racist in the country voted Leave. I’m not saying all leave voters are racists.

Impossible to be correct with that one

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:38 pm

Guich wrote:Impossible to be correct with that one

Any racists who voted Remain, please tell me who you are.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:42 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:One thing is for sure....every racist in the country voted Leave. I’m not saying all leave voters are racists.

I know at least one racist who didn't vote, so that's put the kibosh on that.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:42 pm

Guich wrote:Impossible to be correct with that one

And entirely unhelpful.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:43 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:It's pretty clear to most People........ a lot of leave voters have changed their mind!

Or simply realised that their initial choice has been a waste of time & whatever happens the wish/dream of leaving is not going to happen, Hobson's choice.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:05 pm

Has it really been that terrible being in the EU? Life seems to have been fairly good for most of us in the UK.

The Government’s own research has revealed we will be worse off for any years. Many major companies agree with that assessment. Is it really worth seeing a million or so workers losing their jobs?

And do you really believe the country is going to stop immigration? Maybe you are hoping immigrants will return home? It is’nt going to happen. The world is in a period of migration and by the end of the century there will be an additional 2 billion people. Change is coming and the old British empire no longer exists.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:13 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:The Government’s own research has revealed we will be worse off for any years. Many major companies agree with that assessment. Is it really worth seeing a million or so workers losing their jobs?

Is that on top of the 800,000 that the Government's own research showed would lose their jobs in the two years after the vote? Or these the same jobs being lost again?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:20 am

tarkys_ears wrote:******* loads in North Korea with internet access and a grave worry about Brexit!

We have people there working for us. Of course they have internet access you daft ****.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:22 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47691078Jobs will be lost whether we're in or out of the EU,arguably automation is a more pressing concern than any future relationship with our continental friends.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:31 am

tiger76 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47691078Jobs will be lost whether we're in or out of the EU,arguably automation is a more pressing concern than any future relationship with our continental friends.

And we'll need to increase taxes to deal with the jobs lost to automation. I really am looking forward to all the hard core capitalists screeching like crazy when we decide we can't keep taxing the poor more and more while letting the rich avoid their taxes.

And btw, we've already lost a fuckton of jobs to automation in manufacturing. That's partially why we're in the Brexit mess in the first place, because liars told the idiots that we can get those jobs back by keeping out the foreigners.

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:We have people there working for us. Of course they have internet access you daft ****.

Easy now big lad.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:31 pm

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.”.

Government responded:

This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.

It remains the Government’s firm policy not to revoke Article 50. We will honour the outcome of the 2016 referendum and work to deliver an exit which benefits everyone, whether they voted to Leave or to Remain.

Revoking Article 50, and thereby remaining in the European Union, would undermine both our democracy and the trust that millions of voters have placed in Government.

The Government acknowledges the considerable number of people who have signed this petition. However, close to three quarters of the electorate took part in the 2016 referendum, trusting that the result would be respected. This Government wrote to every household prior to the referendum, promising that the outcome of the referendum would be implemented. 17.4 million people then voted to leave the European Union, providing the biggest democratic mandate for any course of action ever directed at UK Government.

British people cast their votes once again in the 2017 General Election where over 80% of those who voted, voted for parties, including the Opposition, who committed in their manifestos to upholding the result of the referendum.

This Government stands by this commitment.

Revoking Article 50 would break the promises made by Government to the British people, disrespect the clear instruction from a democratic vote, and in turn, reduce confidence in our democracy. As the Prime Minister has said, failing to deliver Brexit would cause “potentially irreparable damage to public trust”, and it is imperative that people can trust their Government to respect their votes and deliver the best outcome for them.

Department for Exiting the European Union.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:39 pm

Looks worryingly like it was written by Ringo!

android · Post by **android** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:32 pm

aggi wrote:Looks worryingly like it was written by Ringo!

I know right! Now we just need martin p to let them know that the referendum was merely advisory - it's like the government do not realise that their promise to implement the result is completely irrelevant!

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:21 pm

It’s a joke anyway, kids can sign the petition, people who are below the voting age as long there’s a email address.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:36 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Not quite sure how serious to take this as most of these petitions are so ridiculously open to abuse / multiple submissions and so forth that no one but students and the great unwashed pay them any heed.

5m Though is s hell of a lot for even turtle to get through .I see however that the usual Luvvie suspects are coming to the fore Hugh “ whore monger” Grant is calling it a “national emergency” ( Unless he meant the lack of brasses in his manor? ) and Dame Emma “I’m European “ /refugees welcome here “ ( erm well not actually in my house silly ) Thompson talking about the destruction of society ... any views on this petition forum ?

Even 5 million sour grapes don't make a nice wine.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:35 am

Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.”.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The debate is scheduled for 1 April 2019.

Once the debate has happened, we’ll email you a video and transcript.

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:23 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Ace, no, not happy with our politics. Can anyone be?

I forget the exact wording of the government's pamphlet (£7 million or was it £9 million?). Did that say the referendum is only advisory and we may not do what the majority of the (voting) electorate determines?
.

This is the problem when people get their information from a pamphlet rather than the legislation. All the preamble in the Bill.

If you can be bothered to read the HoP Briefing Paper 07212 published on 3rd June 2015 it does say that the EU Ref Bill “does not contain any requirement for the U.K. Government to implement the results of the referendum” and goes on to specifically say “this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative”

It couldn’t have been more clear (as people pointed out at the time) you can’t bind future governments on the words on a pamphlet.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:27 am

It couldn’t have been more clear (as people pointed out at the time) you can’t bind future governments on the words on a pamphlet.

Clearly lots of people think you can, which is the problem.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:00 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:This is the problem when people get their information from a pamphlet rather than the legislation. All the preamble in the Bill.

If you can be bothered to read the HoP Briefing Paper 07212 published on 3rd June 2015 it does say that the EU Ref Bill “does not contain any requirement for the U.K. Government to implement the results of the referendum” and goes on to specifically say “this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative”

It couldn’t have been more clear (as people pointed out at the time) you can’t bind future governments on the words on a pamphlet.

Just looked it up, here’s the quote from it...

This Bill requires a referendum to be held on the question of the UK’s continued membership of the European Union (EU) before the end of 2017. It does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to implement the results of the referendum, nor set a time limit by which a vote to leave the EU should be implemented.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... P-7212.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:01 am

Time to vote again!
We need some fellows from Europe to fill our hospitals, care homes and other health jobs.

Can we swap workers for shirkers? I'd vote for that, especially if we could put them all on an island to fend for themselves.

That would just leave those in need, who deserve help

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:10 am

Burnley Ace wrote:This is the problem when people get their information from a pamphlet rather than the legislation. All the preamble in the Bill.

If you can be bothered to read the HoP Briefing Paper 07212 published on 3rd June 2015 it does say that the EU Ref Bill “does not contain any requirement for the U.K. Government to implement the results of the referendum” and goes on to specifically say “this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative”

It couldn’t have been more clear (as people pointed out at the time) you can’t bind future governments on the words on a pamphlet.

I realise that we must expect politicians to be lying slimeballs, but you seem to be very pleased that they are.

Incidentally, even that HoP paper can't be fully relied on. It says that the UK has been a member of the EU since 1973, which clearly we haven't.

Have you any links to where people pointed out at the time that Cameron had no legal basis for saying that this referendum result would be implemented?

I suppose there's one good thing about this "advisory referendum" stuff. None of the people who propound it will ever be whingeing about the bus slogan again. Because surely no-one could be hypocritical enough to whinge about a lie on the side of a bus when they compare it to the lie about "the government will implement your decision"!