Religion wins again

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Quickenthetempo
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Religion wins again

Postby Quickenthetempo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:19 pm

The Birmingham schools who were teaching their pupils that being Gay/Lesbian was ok in our society have had to withdraw the lessons as Muslim parents protested.
Saying it's not acceptable in their religion.

Time to end religion in this country, it's like living 200 yrs ago.
Never mind all the tax breaks the church and mosques get.
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby elwaclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:34 pm

Church attendance was lower during the early 1700's during the Age if Reason... before most of the churches we have today were built. It is in a lull but religion isn't going anywhere. EVERYTHING goes in cycles.
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Tricky Trevor » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:43 pm

OP is spot on religion should be taken out of education but the greatest sadness in all this is that they won’t just let kids grow up, at their own pace.
Of course they need teaching about “stranger danger” and what is acceptable and not but at these very young ages they do not need to know what they will encounter in later life.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby conyoviejo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:52 pm

So there are no gay/ lesbian Muslims then.. ? Who'd a thought that. Hmmm
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby BleedingClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:57 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:OP is spot on religion should be taken out of education but the greatest sadness in all this is that they won’t just let kids grow up, at their own pace.
Of course they need teaching about “stranger danger” and what is acceptable and not but at these very young ages they do not need to know what they will encounter in later life.


Agreed on taking Religions out of school control.
Let them offer out of school activities if they want followers

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ontario claret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:58 pm

There's a rise in fundamentalist private Christian schools right now in Canada. It's great for those that can afford it. Even Christians who were educated in public schools are turning in that direction. The utter pap that is being taught in schools today is ridiculous. I recently had a discussion with a (presumed) retired public school teacher. The needle tracts on her arms made me hope that she was retired. She said that all education should be directed at the lowest common denominator. Wasn't quite sure what she meant by that. Should everybody just stay in kindergarten? Thankfully, most of my teachers didn't agree with that "philosophy".

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Pstotto » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:05 pm

OP is a fool and has succumbed to his liberal prejudice. Social minorities are being used to bully the rest of society with no reply i.e. if you don't like the political oppression of the liberal fascism, you're phobics etc.

Where's the respect of 'diversity' for the rest? Subversion, viral language and language appropriation isn't respect the rest, it's hate.
Last edited by Pstotto on Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BigRedrose
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby BigRedrose » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:05 pm

Couldn't agree more with the OP, but hardly surprising when half of British muslims polled by ICM for channel 4, think homosexuality should be illegal. Schools, and headteachers like this are in a no win situation.
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clitheroeclaret2
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby clitheroeclaret2 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:05 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The Birmingham schools who were teaching their pupils that being Gay/Lesbian was ok in our society have had to withdraw the lessons as Muslim parents protested.
Saying it's not acceptable in their religion.

Time to end religion in this country, it's like living 200 yrs ago.
Never mind all the tax breaks the church and mosques get.



Why lump all religions together when it was clearly 600 MUSLIM parents protesting? On this issue though I could possibly agree with them

Interestingly the assistant head is gay apparently
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ontario claret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:07 pm

The greatest problem I have with Christian fundamentalists is the gay/lesbian question, and it comes down to whether you are born a homosexual or if you acquire it. If you're born with it, which I believe, than to deny a gay child membership in your church is just plain wrong. This has recently happened in the largest Protestant church in my area. People are flocking to the the fundamental cause, probably because the doctrine is easiest to understand. The more black and white you make things, the greater your "collection" area. I don't buy it, and never will.

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CoolClaret
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby CoolClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:10 pm

It's almost as though Islam has no place in a non-backward developed western society.. Who'd have thought it?
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby elwaclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:16 pm

ontario claret wrote:The greatest problem I have with Christian fundamentalists is the gay/lesbian question, and it comes down to whether you are born a homosexual or if you acquire it. If you're born with it, which I believe, than to deny a gay child membership in your church is just plain wrong. This has recently happened in the largest Protestant church in my area. People are flocking to the the fundamental cause, probably because the doctrine is easiest to understand. The more black and white you make things, the greater your "collection" area. I don't buy it, and never will.


Why the Queen is not the head of the Church of Scotland... or Church of Britain as it would then be and why the C of E tend to sail the middle ground.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby grapidianclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:19 pm

CoolClaret wrote:It's almost as though Islam has no place in a non-backward developed western society.. Who'd have thought it?


Yes. Christianity was decades ahead in accepting homosexuality. Its such a fantastic religion, with such a great history of acceptance and tolerance.
three cheers for christianity . Hip hip

All religions should keep their heads down in relation to education. No pun intended

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ontario claret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:35 pm

Most of the largest private universities in the U.S. were founded by various religious sects. A couple of years ago, I was operated on for cataracts. The doctor who operated on me was female, named Dr. Misra (obviously a Muslim name), and got her medical degree from Baylor University, which originated as a Baptist seminary in Waco, Texas. A perfect world? You decide. (And she was terrific, and quite "hot". No covering up of various body parts for this chick.)

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:39 pm

ontario claret wrote:Most of the largest private universities in the U.S. were founded by various religious sects. A couple of years ago, I was operated on for cataracts. The doctor who operated on me was female, named Dr. Misra (obviously a Muslim name), and got her medical degree from Baylor University, which originated as a Baptist seminary in Waco, Texas. A perfect world? You decide. (And she was terrific, and quite "hot". No covering up of various body parts for this chick.)


Misra sounds more Hindu to me.

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CoolClaret
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby CoolClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:43 pm

grapidianclaret wrote:Yes. Christianity was decades ahead in accepting homosexuality. Its such a fantastic religion, with such a great history of acceptance and tolerance.
three cheers for christianity . Hip hip

All religions should keep their heads down in relation to education. No pun intended


Perhaps - but practically every forward thinking 'progressive' country has been built upon the ethics of the new testament - the idea of 'agape' (situation ethics), which has allowed the environment for this progression to flourish - at least compared with other sectarian countries that has a more fundamental belief system written into law.

Bit of a copout imo when one argues, 'well what about Christianity?!' As though it's anywhere near as bad (especially Anglican) which once again hides the massive elephant in the room - Islam.

I'm not even a Christian either nor ever was or ever intend to be.
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Vino blanco
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Vino blanco » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:47 pm

You're right Rileybobs, Misra is a Hindu name.

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ontario claret
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ontario claret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:52 pm

Muslim/Hindu. Does it really matter, Rileybobs? (Except between them.) The point is, modern liberal thought enabled this woman to reach her full potential, and I benefited from it. End of story.

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Blackrod
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Blackrod » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:53 pm

If you want diversity of culture and beliefs then society needs to accept the different views of these cultures. I expect many of the liberals that supported further mosque building previously will be the one most upset about this.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 pm

ontario claret wrote:Muslim/Hindu. Does it really matter, Rileybobs? (Except between them.) The point is, modern liberal thought enabled this woman to reach her full potential, and I benefited from it. End of story.


It doesn’t matter to me - just that you said it’s obviously a Muslim name which is isn’t. And it probably explains her more liberal choice of clothing.
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ontario claret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:57 pm

So many shades of grey in so many faiths, yet only one God. It all goes back to basic beliefs held by the believer. We each travel our separate paths in this world, but we all end up at one final destination.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ZizkovClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:01 pm

Religion has no place in Education or Government. It should be a personal private thing.
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ontario claret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:02 pm

You're not saying that there aren't "progressive" Muslims in this world? They might be a definite minority, but they're out there. Recently in Toronto, we had a case where a serial killer was targeting Muslim men who frequented gay bars. I'm thinking that these men weren't followers of some of the more radicalized preachers of their faith. And I apologize for any ignorance that I might have regarding Hindu names.

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Blackrod
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Blackrod » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:04 pm

A fair way of putting it. Although there may be two destinations.
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:04 pm

ontario claret wrote:You're not saying that there aren't "progressive" Muslims in this world? They might be a definite minority, but they're out there. Recently in Toronto, we had a case where a serial killer was targeting Muslim men who frequented gay bars. I'm thinking that these men weren't followers of some of the more radicalized preachers of their faith. And I apologize for any ignorance that I might have regarding Hindu names.


Of course there are. I was just pointing out that Misra isn’t obviously a Muslim name. Sorry - I didn’t mean to touch a nerve.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Bosscat » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:04 pm

Karl Marx said "Religion is the Opium of the people"...

Hows that for linking up a few different threads :D
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Rileybobs » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:06 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:Religion has no place in Education or Government. It should be a personal private thing.


Hard to argue with that. Although I think that kids should be educated about different cultures and religions.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby grapidianclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:07 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Perhaps - but practically every forward thinking 'progressive' country has been built upon the ethics of the new testament - the idea of 'agape' (situation ethics), which has allowed the environment for this progression to flourish - at least compared with other sectarian countries that has a more fundamental belief system written into law.

Bit of a copout imo when one argues, 'well what about Christianity?!' As though it's anywhere near as bad (especially Anglican) which once again hides the massive elephant in the room - Islam.

I'm not even a Christian either nor ever was or ever intend to be.


the " what about christianity" shpeel is valid though. Christianity could teach islam a thing or two about pretty much everything people criticise islam for. christianity has just been around a little longer. All religions in schools leaves a bad taste, could you imagine a scientology school?

Seperation of church and state needs to be mandated everywhere to prevent all religious indoctrination.
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ontario claret
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ontario claret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:14 pm

You didn't "touch a nerve", Rileybobs, but you did bring it up. I'm not the perfect collection of all knowledge in this world. I merely try to present a more thought out perspective. And if I lived in Great Britain, I would be a member of the Liberal Democratic Party. I loved Paddy Ashdown.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Funkydrummer » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:16 pm

Tolerance is a two way street, there just appears to a blockage in one direction.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby ZizkovClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:24 pm

There really is something about the Lib Dems that attracts the preachy. I've really noticed this to be a pattern

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:52 pm

conyoviejo wrote:So there are no gay/ lesbian Muslims then.. ? Who'd a thought that. Hmmm


You're looking on the wrong video sites.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:54 pm

ontario claret wrote:So many shades of grey in so many faiths, yet only one God. It all goes back to basic beliefs held by the believer. We each travel our separate paths in this world, but we all end up at one final destination.


3000 gods and counting that have been worshipped by mankind.

Which is the one?

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:58 pm

Money talks and religion has plenty of it, through various means, including shady ones.
Religion also has some good principles and ideas, but also some really horrible ones.
Homophobia was/us encouraged by religion, yet the same religion's want you to love thy neighbour (unless they're gay of course :roll: )

Faith schools should be banned, for all religions, but they won't be because they're used to indoctrinate kids from a young age and society is far to weak.
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Bosscat » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:12 pm

conyoviejo wrote:So there are no gay/ lesbian Muslims then.. ? Who'd a thought that. Hmmm

Coronation Street just killed off its Gay Muslim character... wonder if that was pressure from religeous groups?
Or just the Roof of Underworld collapsing on her ;)

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby MACCA » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:13 pm

conyoviejo wrote:So there are no gay/ lesbian Muslims then.. ? Who'd a thought that. Hmmm


Take it you don't watch Coronation street?

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Funkydrummer » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:26 pm

MACCA wrote:Take it you don't watch Coronation street?


But she's not real. ;)

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby box_of_frogs » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:29 pm

conyoviejo wrote:So there are no gay/ lesbian Muslims then.. ? Who'd a thought that. Hmmm

Absolutely not.

Except on “man love Thursday”. Oh, and ignore the Arabic saying of “women for babies, men for pleasure”.

Barring that, it’s taboo!

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby claretabroad » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:33 pm

Bosscat wrote:Karl Marx said "Religion is the Opium of the people"...

Hows that for linking up a few different threads :D


No. He didn't.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

That's what he actually said.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Funkydrummer » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:35 pm

claretabroad wrote:No. He didn't.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

That's what he actually said.


Not quite ca :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Funkydrummer on Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Bosscat » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:38 pm

claretabroad wrote:No. He didn't.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

That's what he actually said.

Oh I am very sorry ... I just cut out the boll*x and got straight to the nub of what he said :D

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Bfcboyo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:40 pm

Pstotto wrote:OP is a fool and has succumbed to his liberal prejudice. Social minorities are being used to bully the rest of society with no reply i.e. if you don't like the political oppression of the liberal fascism, you're phobics etc.

Where's the respect of 'diversity' for the rest? Subversion, viral language and language appropriation isn't respect the rest, it's hate.


I lost count of the phobias I have for disagreeing with things. I never feel as though they are real phobias though and never get anxious about them.
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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Bfcboyo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:42 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:3000 gods and counting that have been worshipped by mankind.

Which is the one?


Judge Jules?

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby claretabroad » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:45 pm

Bosscat wrote:Oh I am very sorry ... I just cut out the boll*x and got straight to the nub of what he said :D


No need to apologise ;)

Marx tended to wax lyrical somewhat.

Ralph Miliband and Louis Althusser did it better.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Braindead » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:46 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:3000 gods and counting that have been worshipped by mankind.

Which is the one?

Neo is The One.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby Lowbankclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:58 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The Birmingham schools who were teaching their pupils that being Gay/Lesbian was ok in our society have had to withdraw the lessons as Muslim parents protested.
Saying it's not acceptable in their religion.

Time to end religion in this country, it's like living 200 yrs ago.
Never mind all the tax breaks the church and mosques get.



We need to get used to it.
The Muslim population increases year on year and the white population shrinks.

Many western countries native populations are shrinking including Germany.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby jurek » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:06 pm

I feel the basic principles of most religions are sound and based
on decency- i.e. thou shall not kill.
Unfortunately mankind and I stress the male side, have historically
paid little heed to many if not most of them.

It may be the opium of the masses albeit I would question that.
It may have been the opium of the masses but probably no longer
and certainly not in the UK.

However, do feel religion (of any creed) should not bear or have any say in how
we educate our young folk.
Especially in countries/societies that have accepted that being Gay/Lesbian
isn't evil or wrong.

There's clearly nothing wrong with schools teaching their pupils that being Gay/Lesbian
is OK. The only debatable point is at what age.
Conversely it is wrong, in my view, to tell them that being Gay/Lesbian is wrong
which is what presumably what they will or have been told.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby jurek » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:07 pm

I feel the basic principles of most religions are sound and based
on decency- i.e. thou shall not kill.
Unfortunately mankind and I stress the male side, have historically
paid little heed to many if not most of them.

It may be the opium of the masses albeit I would question that.
It may have been the opium of the masses but probably no longer
and certainly not in the UK.

However, do feel religion (of any creed) should not bear or have any say in how
we educate our young folk.
Especially in countries/societies that have accepted that being Gay/Lesbian
isn't evil or wrong.

There's clearly nothing wrong with schools teaching their pupils that being Gay/Lesbian
is OK. The only debatable point is at what age.
Conversely it is wrong, in my view, to tell them that being Gay/Lesbian is wrong
which is what presumably what they will or have been told.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby jurek » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:08 pm

Apologies seemed to have posted the above twice.
Must be my Catholic background/upbringing.

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Re: Religion wins again

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:17 pm

What age do you explain to kids that being homosexual is fine?

Why wait, we don't wait to tell them heterosexual relationships are fine.
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